Post by: RadioFreeSeaLab on November 28, 2007, 12:41:04 PM
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US police use stun gun on 6-year-old
A United States police officer has used a stun gun on a six-year-old boy to keep him from cutting himself with a piece of broken glass, sparking controversy.
Miami-Dade County police chief Bobby Parker has defended the officer's decision.
"Had the child cut his vein and the officer had not Tasered the child, somebody would be saying, 'well, you had the Taser, why didn't you Taser the child'," Mr Parker told the Miami Herald newspaper.
A Taser is a gun which fires an incapacitating electric charge of 50,000 volts.
At least one local official and many residents have questioned the police officer's actions.
"I really can't believe they did that," County Commissioner Joe Martinez told the newspaper. "This might be a good opportunity to review our policy."
A United States police officer has used a stun gun on a six-year-old boy to keep him from cutting himself with a piece of broken glass, sparking controversy.
Miami-Dade County police chief Bobby Parker has defended the officer's decision.
"Had the child cut his vein and the officer had not Tasered the child, somebody would be saying, 'well, you had the Taser, why didn't you Taser the child'," Mr Parker told the Miami Herald newspaper.
A Taser is a gun which fires an incapacitating electric charge of 50,000 volts.
At least one local official and many residents have questioned the police officer's actions.
"I really can't believe they did that," County Commissioner Joe Martinez told the newspaper. "This might be a good opportunity to review our policy."
http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/florida/news-article.aspx?storyid=27648
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MIAMI, FL -- Police in Miami Dade County say they did the right thing when the used a Taser to subdue a six year-old at school.
The school's principal called 911 after the child broke a picture frame in her office and waved a piece of glass to keep people away from him.
When two Miami-Dade officers arrived the scene the boy had already cut himself under his eye and cut a large gash in his hand.
The officers tried to reason with the boy, but when he started cutting his own leg, they shocked him with a Taser. They then grabbed him to prevent him from hurting himself when he hit the floor and called an ambulance.
Miami Police say the Taser was necessary to prevent the boy from seriously harming himself with the glass.
Today Governor Jeb Bush told the Associated Press he doesn't know the circumstances of why adults couldn't control a six-year-old.
He says he would have to know the facts before commenting on it. But he says that there are
procedures in place to deal with children armed with a weapon on something that could cause harm.
The boy was taken to a nearby hospital and is doing okay. He is now undergoing a psychiatric evaluation.
First Coast News & Associated Press
The school's principal called 911 after the child broke a picture frame in her office and waved a piece of glass to keep people away from him.
When two Miami-Dade officers arrived the scene the boy had already cut himself under his eye and cut a large gash in his hand.
The officers tried to reason with the boy, but when he started cutting his own leg, they shocked him with a Taser. They then grabbed him to prevent him from hurting himself when he hit the floor and called an ambulance.
Miami Police say the Taser was necessary to prevent the boy from seriously harming himself with the glass.
Today Governor Jeb Bush told the Associated Press he doesn't know the circumstances of why adults couldn't control a six-year-old.
He says he would have to know the facts before commenting on it. But he says that there are
procedures in place to deal with children armed with a weapon on something that could cause harm.
The boy was taken to a nearby hospital and is doing okay. He is now undergoing a psychiatric evaluation.
First Coast News & Associated Press
Post by: mtnbkr on November 28, 2007, 12:42:09 PM
Chris
Post by: RadioFreeSeaLab on November 28, 2007, 12:43:09 PM
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on November 28, 2007, 12:43:46 PM
Post by: mtnbkr on November 28, 2007, 12:50:41 PM
There had to be a better way for a group of adults to subdue a six year old.
I don't think the issue was subduing him, but getting to him before he could cut himself or risk getting cut themselves.
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The school's principal called 911 after the child broke a picture frame in her office and waved a piece of glass to keep people away from him.
When two Miami-Dade officers arrived the scene the boy had already cut himself under his eye and cut a large gash in his hand.
The officers tried to reason with the boy, but when he started cutting his own leg, they shocked him with a Taser. They then grabbed him to prevent him from hurting himself when he hit the floor and called an ambulance.
When two Miami-Dade officers arrived the scene the boy had already cut himself under his eye and cut a large gash in his hand.
The officers tried to reason with the boy, but when he started cutting his own leg, they shocked him with a Taser. They then grabbed him to prevent him from hurting himself when he hit the floor and called an ambulance.
Chris
Post by: RadioFreeSeaLab on November 28, 2007, 12:52:23 PM
Post by: mtnbkr on November 28, 2007, 12:55:07 PM
Chris
Post by: RadioFreeSeaLab on November 28, 2007, 12:55:53 PM
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on November 28, 2007, 12:58:28 PM
Post by: mtnbkr on November 28, 2007, 01:06:12 PM
I wasn't there, I freely admit that. I just have a hard time believing tazing a child was the only option.
Maybe, just maybe, that was the best solution given the alternatives. Afterall, people on this board and other gun boards have advocated shooting armed attackers. This kid was armed and apparently willing to use his weapon against himself and others.
A few weeks ago, I was introducing my 4yo daughter to the priviledge of owning and using a pocketknife. It was one of those little SAK keychain knives (Solitaire, I think) with a 1" blade. After about an hour of cutting leaves and paper with the scissors, she decided she MUST open the blade. Before I could stop her, she had the blad open. In the process of trying to keep her from doing anything with the blade, she managed to cut her finger very slightly (basically a papercut). This was with her not trying to harm me or herself, just the action of me trying to grab her hand and control the blade. Two years, 20lbs+, and willful intent would have made a huge difference.
Chris
Post by: Manedwolf on November 28, 2007, 01:08:40 PM
And a shard of it, if someone falls on it, they can be killed.
Post by: crt360 on November 28, 2007, 01:49:54 PM
It's probably one of the better uses of a taser I've heard about lately.
Post by: Perd Hapley on November 28, 2007, 02:00:29 PM
There had to be a better way for a group of adults to subdue a six year old.
Boot to the head? Sharp whacks with a baton?
Post by: Sergeant Bob on November 28, 2007, 04:24:48 PM
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on November 28, 2007, 04:28:31 PM
Glass is evil stuff. You can be gushing blood all over the place before you even know you've been slashed.
And a shard of it, if someone falls on it, they can be killed.
And a shard of it, if someone falls on it, they can be killed.
too true had a friend who's six year old was playing rolling down a grassy hill with 3 or 4 other kids. piece of glass on hill slashed his carotid he bled out in mins i tend to be harsh on folks who bust bottles and leave em
Post by: K Frame on November 28, 2007, 06:01:06 PM
He was always a problem, but one day he absolutely melted down.
I'm not talking about a crying tantrum, I'm talking about a full-blown psychotic break with a shockingly high level of energy and violence. Scrawny little 6 year old shouldn't be a problem for a full-grown teacher, right?
Wrong.
This kid was so uncontrollably violent he put our teacher and another student in the hospital overnight. The teacher tried to grab him to, I guess, calm him down. He broke loose as if it was nothing, picked up his desk chair and threw it at her. I'm not talking about those new light-weight plastic desks and chairs they have now. These were the old stamped/tubular steel chair/desk that even for an adult weighs one hell of a lot.
The chair hit her and bounced into another kid. He then picked up his desk and threw it, too. Luckily that missed. He then proceeded to start smashing the windows with his fists.
I can't remember if a student ran to another room to get a teacher or what, but one of the men teachers came in and tried to grab this kid, Bobby I think was his name, broke that guy's nose. It took three teachers to fully subdue this kid and he was still struggling like a wildcat.
There was blood everywhere, from my teacher's cuts, from Bobby's shredded hands, and from the other teacher's broken nose.
Had Bobby had a knife, or even a shard of glass from one of the windows that he shattered, I have no doubt that the situation would have been a LOT worse.
Never saw the kid again.
Post by: Fjolnirsson on November 28, 2007, 06:03:35 PM
Post by: yesitsloaded on November 28, 2007, 06:12:42 PM
Post by: Chris on November 29, 2007, 05:32:46 AM
Post by: Risasi on November 29, 2007, 06:53:06 AM
Self destructive behavior is self correcting.
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on November 29, 2007, 06:57:40 AM
Post by: Jamisjockey on November 29, 2007, 07:01:51 AM
I read that. I still think it was overkill. A bunch of cops and school teachers couldn't come up with a better way to control him?
Think of an option. Now. While youre standing in front of a bleeding 6 year old who is about to cut himself again with a large piece of broken glass. Other kids, or maybe teachers are screaming for you to do something. You've got pepper spray, tazer, sidearm, baton, handcuffs. Do it. Do it now.
IMHO, the tazer is being used way too damn much. In this case, it was probably the best option.
Post by: Risasi on November 29, 2007, 07:10:06 AM
I read that. I still think it was overkill. A bunch of cops and school teachers couldn't come up with a better way to control him?
Think of an option. Now. While youre standing in front of a bleeding 6 year old who is about to cut himself again with a large piece of broken glass. Other kids, or maybe teachers are screaming for you to do something. You've got pepper spray, tazer, sidearm, baton, handcuffs. Do it. Do it now.
IMHO, the tazer is being used way too damn much. In this case, it was probably the best option.
Well, my water safety training kicked in. Don't just jump in to save a drowning man.
Personally I think I would pull teachers and other kids out of the room, then close the door behind me. After making sure everyone else is out of harm's way, then I would call for backup.
If the kid kills himself, well that's one less problem. If not it might just be the amount of de-escalation needed to calm the little maniac down.
Post by: mtnbkr on November 29, 2007, 07:30:24 AM
Chris
Post by: Risasi on November 29, 2007, 08:08:50 AM
I'm just sooo sick of these kind of stories. What kind of child will try to hurt himself like that? Those must be some pretty powerful demons.
Like I said I see self destructive behavior as being self correcting. If such people are left to their own devices they have a tendency to clean up the gene pool themselves.
Maybe that sounds harsh, but I just don't care.
Post by: Joe Demko on November 29, 2007, 09:52:11 AM
Post by: Risasi on November 29, 2007, 10:02:25 AM
Post by: member1313 on November 29, 2007, 10:19:20 AM
They potentially saved a young boy from ending his life. The important thing is that the police protected a young boy's life. The tazer is irrelevant.
Post by: roo_ster on November 29, 2007, 11:46:18 AM
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When two Miami-Dade officers arrived the scene the boy had already cut himself under his eye and cut a large gash in his hand.
The officers tried to reason with the boy, but when he started cutting his own leg, they shocked him with a Taser. They then grabbed him to prevent him from hurting himself when he hit the floor and called an ambulance.
The officers tried to reason with the boy, but when he started cutting his own leg, they shocked him with a Taser. They then grabbed him to prevent him from hurting himself when he hit the floor and called an ambulance.
It wasn't a case of, "He might cut himself," it was a case of, "Holy crap, he has already cut himself and is doing it again!"
Post by: Jamisjockey on November 29, 2007, 11:56:22 AM
Maybe so Joe...
You don't know the kid and you don't know what his demons are. Can he be fixed? You don't know that. You're passing judgement on a 6 year old for crying out loud! How dare you.
Post by: Risasi on November 29, 2007, 12:45:38 PM
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You don't know the kid and you don't know what his demons are. Can he be fixed? You don't know that. You're passing judgement on a 6 year old for crying out loud! How dare you.
Yes, I dared. No, I don't believe he can be fixed. Certainly not by another human. Therefore I do not know the kid, nor am I involved with the kid.
Let's face it. I am an ahole...
The reason I am so harsh about this is I have known kids like this. Grew up with some in fact. One was my best friend. He killed himself when I was nine. There are a few others I know. Two are in jail. Several others are deadbeat losers who are just rotten to the core. They just haven't been caught yet.
Another one was some nutjob girl who was sweet on me. When she was in her teens she decided one day to go into a Runza with a sawed off shotgun and shoot the place up. That was nearly twenty years ago. She's in a mental institution now. I would be just like these people. As a teen I just decided that I wanted nothing to do with that lifestyle and walked away. Got a job, stayed out of trouble.
So I may be an ahole, but there is a logic to my reasoning, however warped it may be. Some of the events in my childhood have given me the ability to simply shut off my emotions, and that is what I did when I posted as I had. However cold or impersonal it sounds I opted for self preservation and the preservation of other innocents in my little post above. I didn't care he was six. Perhaps I am simply a psychopath.
----
Tell you what, I'm going to drop this one. What Joe said struck a nerve. Honestly I would probably rush in and tackle the kid if I were actually there. I don't know. Certainly I have become too callous. What I said was deplorable.
Post by: Perd Hapley on November 29, 2007, 02:05:30 PM
Like I said I see self destructive behavior as being self correcting. If such people are left to their own devices they have a tendency to clean up the gene pool themselves.
Sure. Leave any six year old to his own devices. They really don't need help, correction or guidance of any kind.
Post by: Jamisjockey on November 29, 2007, 02:25:01 PM
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So I may be an ahole, but there is a logic to my reasoning, however warped it may be. Some of the events in my childhood have given me the ability to simply shut off my emotions, and that is what I did when I posted as I had. However cold or impersonal it sounds I opted for self preservation and the preservation of other innocents in my little post above. I didn't care he was six. Perhaps I am simply a psychopath.
"warped" logic isn't logic at all.
Just because you know kids you think are like this kid means nothing. You know nothing about him or his case.
And to give up on a six year old is beyond callous. Callous doesn't even describe the mindset you have to think that a six year old, someone who thinks Santa is still real, girls have cooties, money comes from the tooth fairy, fart is a naughty word, or that magic tricks are real, is a person beyond repair. Even damaged children can be saved at that age, no matter what your small life experiences tell you.
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What I said was deplorable.
But you said it anyways.
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on November 29, 2007, 03:37:02 PM
Post by: mtnbkr on November 29, 2007, 04:38:41 PM
Chris