Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: Grandpa Shooter on March 05, 2010, 10:35:21 PM
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We were away from our camp for most of a day and came home to find someone from the Census Bureau had come past our KEEP OUT sign way down at the road, walked up onto our porch, and stuck a plastic bag saying 2010 Census under the door handle. Huh? Since when are they allowed to trespass on private property?
Since we don't live here, using it only occasionally as the mood strikes, I have no intention of seeing what is in the bag. I think it might have fallen into the burn barrel, but I don't know that for sure.
What questions are you legally required to answer? I don't recall ever getting any census stuff before this so I really don't know.
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I guess private property doesn't mean anything to the .gov
Any how according to howstufworks.com
http://www.howstuffworks.com/question345.htm
What happens if I don't fill out my census form?
Browse the article What happens if I don't fill out my census form?
In the United States, the census is officially a big deal (see How the Census Works to learn exactly how big a deal it is). Originally, the census was meant to be a way to count everyone so that the members of the House of Representatives could be allocated properly to the states. Every 10 years there would be a count, and states with more people got more members in the House. Over time, the government has gotten significantly more complicated, and today, the federal government allocates money to states for all sorts of programs. Something like $100 billion gets distributed every year, and quite a bit of it is distributed based on population. The census provides the only official head count.
Someone is very likely to notice if you do not fill out and return your form. After April 1 in a census year, all of the responses received by the U.S. Census Bureau will be compared to major lists of U.S. residences. If your response has not been received -- or if you didn't complete all the questions on your form -- someone from the census will contact you for that information. The census is a $6.5 billion dollar project. They can afford to be thorough!
If you refuse to give out the information or you deliberately give inaccurate information, you can be in legal trouble. According to United States Code, Title 13 (Census), Chapter 7 (Offenses and Penalties), SubChapter II, if you're over 18 and refuse to answer all or part of the Census, you can be fined up to $100. If you give false answers, you're subject to a fine of up to $500. If you offer suggestions or information with the "intent to cause inaccurate enumeration of population," you are subject to a fine of up to $1,000, up to a year in prison, or both. Here's the official verbiage:
221. Refusal or neglect to answer questions; false answers
* (a) Whoever, being over eighteen years of age, refuses or willfully neglects, when requested by the Secretary, or by any other authorized officer or employee of the Department of Commerce or bureau or agency thereof acting under the instructions of the Secretary or authorized officer, to answer, to the best of his knowledge, any of the questions on any schedule submitted to him in connection with any census or survey provided for by subchapters I, II, IV, and V of chapter 5 of this title, applying to himself or to the family to which he belongs or is related, or to the farm or farms of which he or his family is the occupant, shall be fined not more than $100.
* (b) Whoever, when answering questions described in subsection (a) of this section, and under the conditions or circumstances described in such subsection, willfully gives any answer that is false, shall be fined not more than $500.
* (c) Notwithstanding any other provision of this title, no person shall be compelled to disclose information relative to his religious beliefs or to membership in a religious body.
Sec. 222. Giving suggestions or information with intent to cause inaccurate enumeration of population
Whoever, either directly or indirectly, offers or renders to any officer or employee of the Department of Commerce or bureau or agency thereof engaged in making an enumeration of population under subchapter II, IV, or V of chapter 5 of this title, any suggestion, advice, information or assistance of any kind, with the intent or purpose of causing an inaccurate enumeration of population to be made, shall be fined not more than $1,000 or imprisoned not more than one year, or both.
These links will help you learn more:
* U.S. Census Bureau
* American FactFinder
* United States Historical Census Data Browser
* How the Census Works
* How Income Taxes Work
* How the U.S. Draft Works
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We were away from our camp for most of a day and came home to find someone from the Census Bureau had come past our KEEP OUT sign way down at the road, walked up onto our porch, and stuck a plastic bag saying 2010 Census under the door handle. Huh? Since when are they allowed to trespass on private property?
Since we don't live here, using it only occasionally as the mood strikes, I have no intention of seeing what is in the bag. I think it might have fallen into the burn barrel, but I don't know that for sure.
What questions are you legally required to answer? I don't recall ever getting any census stuff before this so I really don't know.
They dropped off a census form at our occasionally used lakehouse last time around. Ignoring it brought no penalties. I'm certain that you would be safe treating your occasionally used property as same?
And we will be giving our standard answer of "4 adults and 1 child live here. Now go away." this year.
I guess private property doesn't mean anything to the .gov
The tax assessor can slither all over your property, too. Came home one day to find a Jeep Cherokee one day with a County Tax Office sign on it. Caught him 'round back with a tape measure. I never knew they did that until that day.
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What questions are you legally required to answer?
Well if you listen to libertarians, just number and ages of people living there, (per the US Constitution).
However, Congress has passed all kinds of laws (see answer above), that failure to follow can potentially cause Humour Impaired Agents of the Dot Govtm to pay you a visit and cause them to remove quite a few of those green flat paper things from your wallet and/or change your place of residence to one of their choosing.
Stomping of puppies and kicking of kittens by the aforementioned HIAOTDG is always an option, YMMV.
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The tax assessor can slither all over your property, too. Came home one day to find a Jeep Cherokee one day with a County Tax Office sign on it. Caught him 'round back with a tape measure. I never knew they did that until that day.
What was Mr. assessor measuring? Our county auditor is in love with taking pictures of all of the houses in the county. He even hires a service with vans that go around and take the pictures.
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What was Mr. assessor measuring? Our county auditor is in love with taking pictures of all of the houses in the county. He even hires a service with vans that go around and take the pictures.
he was measuring the exterior dimensions of the house...
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Grandpa Shooter,
According to http://2010.census.gov/partners/pdf/brochure_HowPeopleAreCounted.pdf
People on the move
Living Situation
Staying at more than one place
(like a vacation home) or at a
transitory location such as
recreational vehicle (RV) parks,
campgrounds, marinas, racetracks,
circuses or carnivals
Where they are counted
In the residence in which they
live and sleep most of the time
In the residence in which they
are staying on Census Day, if
time is divided equally
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Well, if you never even saw it, then you could hardly fill it out, right ? ;)
I guess we will find out. I wrote "3" in the number of persons box and mailed in the form. That's all the information that they are going to get. One has to draw a line somewhere, and this may be it. Watch the news if you don't hear from me =D
The whole census thing is a joke anyway, despite the millions that they are spending on it. Last year some of my neighbors had the gps folks show up, but we never saw them. The guy that came by last week didn't have our address or location on his map. He just bumbled up the driveway (on foot as it is so muddy). He asked if this was ## xyz which is a competely different road. He had no idea even where he was at, and who knows if he ever found his way back to down.
He only had a half dozen or so addresses listed on his gps generated map, when there are about 50 houses out here. ;/ I'm thinking that the gps sneaks just hit a few houses and then called it good. So I guess that they don't yet have the coordinates to hit my house with a missile.
As the old saying goes, be thankful we don't get all the government that we pay for. =)
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Well, if you never even saw it, then you could hardly fill it out, right ? ;)
I guess we will find out. I wrote "3" in the number of persons box and mailed in the form. That's all the information that they are going to get. One has to draw a line somewhere, and this may be it. Watch the news if you don't hear from me =D
The whole census thing is a joke anyway, despite the millions that they are spending on it. Last year some of my neighbors had the gps folks show up, but we never saw them. The guy that came by last week didn't have our address or location on his map. He just bumbled up the driveway (on foot as it is so muddy). He asked if this was ## xyz which is a competely different road. He had no idea even where he was at, and who knows if he ever found his way back to down.
He only had a half dozen or so addresses listed on his gps generated map, when there are about 50 houses out here. ;/ I'm thinking that the gps sneaks just hit a few houses and then called it good. So I guess that they don't yet have the coordinates to hit my house with a missile.
As the old saying goes, be thankful we don't get all the government that we pay for. =)
What you related is about how it is out here. They wander around on what they think are roads, stumble up driveways and shove stuff where they can. There are no services out here, folks don't post their street addresses at the street (dirt jeep track), and there are no mail boxes to knock over moving houses. Nobody drives up dirt roads to a house out here unless they are a complete idiot.
I did go on google maps the other day and our place doesn't even show, but some others do. ;/
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I will be answering mine as follows:
"Two adults. No children. And we don't like trespassers.....unless they're properly seasoned and cooked over an open fire....."
That should answer all their questions..... =D
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What you related is about how it is out here. They wander around on what they think are roads, stumble up driveways and shove stuff where they can. There are no services out here, folks don't post their street addresses at the street (dirt jeep track), and there are no mail boxes to knock over moving houses. Nobody drives up dirt roads to a house out here unless they are a complete idiot.
Just to let you know, your property is probably GPS tagged by now. That's something the Census takers are doing now. They started the preliminary preparations a while back last year (remember the census taker that hung himself and scrawled "Fed" on his stomach? That was around that time)
I know I scared the crap out of the census guy when he came to get the GPS readings. He rung the doorbell and I went and cranked open the bay window and growled "What!?". He almost fell off the porch backing up and holding his ID up and going "I'm just a census taker!"
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Just to let you know, your property is probably GPS tagged by now. That's something the Census takers are doing now. They started the preliminary preparations a while back last year (remember the census taker that hung himself and scrawled "Fed" on his stomach? That was around that time)
I know I scared the crap out of the census guy when he came to get the GPS readings. He rung the doorbell and I went and cranked open the bay window and growled "What!?". He almost fell off the porch backing up and holding his ID up and going "I'm just a census taker!"
The old guy that came to my place a couple days ago didn't have a gps. He had to write down my address because he didn't have our place on the map (generated from the gps canvassing last year, presumably). He really only even found our house because he thought he was somewhere else ;/
The stupid thing is that they could have gotten all the address information from the county if they had bothered, but instead they spend millions to have idiots run around with gps units.
The dogs raised a fuss and I met him down by the power pole (GS, you know where I'm talking about) so he didn't come too close to the house. He actually even said "we don't need to know who you are, just how many." Well, that's all the information I put on the form :P
Oh, and he didn't say anything about my hogleg =D
I did go on google maps the other day and our place doesn't even show, but some others do.
The google map for our area is about five years out of date.
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If they really want to find me, all they have to do is track my cell phone usage. That will give them the location of the cabin, the camp, and the motor home. The cell phone companies are not allowed to activate a phone which is not GPS enabled. Courtesy of .gov. :mad:
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You do know that your "Keep Out" and "No Trespassing" signs are pretty much meaningless, right? Sure, if some scumbag happens to pass through your land and you catch him, you can probably have him prosecuted. But it really doesn't work that way with gov't types. Do you really think you're gonna have a gov't type, no matter how obscure their function, prosecuted for trespassing? How about the cop who comes to your door asking about the UFO spotted in your area? You gonna have him busted too? Or, what about the pizza guy that gets lost? And, yes, I realize you live somewhere in the middle of nowhere but that really isn't the point.
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So my annoyingly liberal father-in law isa actually managing the Census office in Minneapolis, and I recently got to ask him about this very thing. After we got past his rather confused "Why wouldn't you want to answer, it helps you get your federal entitlments?" (Different worldview there, to say the least) He broke down for me the different census stuff.
The 2010 Census is 1 form, 10 questions per person. You can see it online here. (http://2010.census.gov/2010census/how/interactive-form.php) It is required by the law that you answer (and everyone in your household) all ten questions, enforcable by fines, and in extreme cases of fraud, jail. I was told that the only folks that get jail for messing with the census are folk caught jerrymandering. Fines are apparantlly pretty common if you repeatadly refuse to answer questions and are belligerant.
Here's the 10 Big Brother questions:
1. How many people live here?
2. Are you sure that's all the folks that live here?
3. Do you live in a trailer, house or 'partment?
4. What's your Phone number, 'cause your handwriting might suck?
5. What are the folks who live here's names?
6. Boy or Girl?
7. How old are y'all?
8. Y'all Latino?
9. What are you then?
10. Do you sometimes stay somewhere else? We don't need this twice.
That's it. I feel invaded just by typing this up. Forgive me if I'm not being distrustful enough, but where's the huge invasive form? Hell I want them to have this data, because when I argue with liberals that their entire world view is messed up, I NEED this kind of data to prove it.
Seriously, if you don't want to tell them your race, or admit you live in a trailer, risk the $100 fine. But quit acting like your striking a blow for freedom by not answering 10 freaking questions. But I'm told if you don't send it in, someone will come to your house. So don't act all surprised this summer when some poor undergrad braves your mud and no tresspassing signs to get the info.
Now, the census folks are also sending out something called the American Community Survey. It's much more in-depth, goes into finacial things, and things like comute times and how many cars you own. It's also voluntary. If you get one of those and don't want to take it, round file it. They'll just keep sending them out to different addresses untill they get the sample size they feel is accaptable. No one will care.
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way to throw a bucket of wet mud on the revolutionary fire! >:D spoilsport! :facepalm:
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Thanks....that changes my answers a little...
Here's the 10 Big Brother questions:
1. How many people live here? Two adults...four if you think dogs are people.
2. Are you sure that's all the folks that live here? Yep...or it will be by sunset.
3. Do you live in a trailer, house or 'partment? I can live just about anywhere.
4. What's your Phone number, 'cause your handwriting might suck? -----. Mail is the best way to reach me.
5. What are the folks who live here's names? Don't you know?....you mailed it here.
6. Boy or Girl? Depends on my mood.
7. How old are y'all? Old enough to know that it's impolite to ask someone their age
8. Y'all Latino? Nope...but I will do yardwork for the right price.
9. What are you then? American. I don't do the hypen-stuff.
10. Do you sometimes stay somewhere else? We don't need this twice. Nope. And I'm only doing this form this one time, anyway.
[popcorn]
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I remember in 2000 there was a "long form" with a BUNCH of much more detailed questions: what job, income, what kind of car you drive, education, military service, etc..
Is there one of those this time?
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Well, I will answer what I damn well please or not. They will be the ones that make a big deal of it, not me. :mad:
If they bother coming back to try to get more information, then I should just start speaking in Gaelic =D
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Thanks....that changes my answers a little...
[popcorn]
Here's the 10 Big Brother questions:
1. How many people live here? Two adults...four if you think dogs are people.
2. Are you sure that's all the folks that live here? Yep...or it will be by sunset.
3. Do you live in a trailer, house or 'partment? I can live just about anywhere Yes.
4. What's your Phone number, 'cause your handwriting might suck? -----. Mail is the best way to reach me Nunya.
5. What are the folks who live here's names? Don't you know?....you mailed it here Nunya.
6. Boy or Girl? Depends on my mood Yes.
7. How old are y'all? Old enough to know that it's impolite to ask someone their age Nunya
8. Y'all Latino? Nope...but I will do yardwork for the right price Nunya.
9. What are you then? American. I don't do the hypen-stuff.
10. Do you sometimes stay somewhere else? We don't need this twice. Nope. And I'm only doing this form this one time, anyway Nunya.
Went & fixed it for ya! And no worries, 'cause each & every question was given a full, complete, honest & truthful (that's four (4) if you weren't counting) answer. Gonna be hard to say I need to pay a fine when I not only answered their questions, but did so three extra times & never even suggested they oughta pay me for the additional answers.
All they need to know is how many folks liver here so they can figure out how many Members of the House of Representatives to add or cut from my state. After they get past that, it's all intrusive. Maybe not to the point that I'm going to declare war over it, but it's still intrusive.
Dept. of Commerce wants to know what the standard of living is based on how many TVs I do or don't have, or if my indoor plumbing flushes or not, they can explain to me why knowing that is so durned important.
Here in Virginia we also have the "School Census" that's used to determine how much tax money is collected to build & fund schools & their associated expenses. I put down "ZERO" for number of kids of any age and obliterate all the identifying data except that which will just barely identify the school district. (In my case it's the street name - every other part of the mailing address & any "anonymous identifier" numbers on the form are physicall cut out.) The point, again, is that there is a bare minumum of information they need, and fishing for any more just aint gonna happen at this address.
stay safe.
skidmark
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It says the form must be complete and the answers correct. Doesn't mentioned a word about them having to be relevant. >:D
1. How many people live here?
More than zero, less than two.
2. Are you sure that's all the folks that live here?
Depends. Sometimes the voices seem so real.
3. Do you live in a trailer, house or 'partment?
It doesn't have wheels and I don't pay rent. You do the math.
4. What's your Phone number, 'cause your handwriting might suck?
My handwriting does suck. My number is in the book.
5. What are the folks who live here's names?
My name is the one assigned at birth by my parents.
6. Boy or Girl?
No thanks. I hate kids.
7. How old are y'all?
One billion three hundred twenty four million twelve thousand seconds
8. Y'all Latino?
Tried it but the bandanas clashed with my suit.
9. What are you then?
65% oxygen
18% carbon
10% hydrogen
3% nitrogen
1.5% calcium
1.2% phosphorous
0.2% potassium
0.2% sulfer
0.2% chlorine
0.1% sodium
0.05% magnesium
3.8g iron
less than 0.05% each cobalt, copper, zinc, and iodine
less than 0.01% each selenium and flourine
(all percentages are by mass)
10. Do you sometimes stay somewhere else? We don't need this twice.
Holiday Inn Express is nice. (and you should feel fortunate I took the time to do this even once)
Brad
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I am hearing impared so calling me won't work. I do answer the phone but I never conduct business of any kind over the phone. I have a camp in the woods and my motorhome is parked there. I wonder if they will put two questionairs on them....chris3
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You realise that the Census helps determine how much representation you get in the House, and how a lot of tax money is spent and allocated, right? It's also one of the few things our federal government does that it's directly mandated to do by the constitution (Article 1, Section 2 iirc)
This administration actually did away with the long form of the census. To give you an idea of what the long form was under Bill Clinton, check this out:
http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:S979SWnLKEEJ:www.census.gov/dmd/www/pdf/d-61b.pdf+long+form+census&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESj5iu-p6dCboAxvy78dhdbPm_TGXdeD-eDRs30r4CzEFc707daTcDMyqO5NkO7FRMrV_B-F6DrM8tez71bT_AkOmVEkVSum_dM-bX4-L1Vqqn95QRHU0eMmmxjclfIK7vnNVCdx&sig=AHIEtbRDp1znmZ9tuIVVdU78Gqqz0b-7Pw
Here's the ACTUAL text of the 2010 census questions for reference:
How many people were living or staying in this house, apartment, or mobile home on April 1, 2010?
We ask this question to help get an accurate count of the number of people in the household on Census Day, April 1, 2010. The answer should be based on the guidelines in the 'Start here' section. We use the information to ensure response accuracy and completeness and to contact respondents whose forms have incomplete or missing information.
Were there any additional people staying here April 1, 2010 that you did not include in Question 1?
Asked since 1880. We ask this question to help identify people who may have been excluded in the count provided in Question 1. We use the information to ensure response accuracy and completeness and to contact respondents whose forms have incomplete or missing information.
Is this house, apartment, or mobile home: owned with mortgage, owned without mortgage, rented, occupied without rent?
Asked since 1890. Homeownership rates serve as an indicator of the nation's economy. The data are also used to administer housing programs and to inform planning decisions.
What is your telephone number?
We ask for a phone number in case we need to contact a respondent when a form is returned with incomplete or missing information.
Please provide information for each person living here. Start with a person here who owns or rents this house, apartment, or mobile home. If the owner or renter lives somewhere else, start with any adult living here. This will be Person 1. What is Person 1's name?
Listing the name of each person in the household helps the respondent to include all members, particularly in large households where a respondent may forget who was counted and who was not. Also, names are needed if additional information about an individual must be obtained to complete the census form. Federal law protects the confidentiality of personal information, including names.
What is Person 1's sex?
Asked since 1790. Census data about sex are important because many federal programs must differentiate between males and females for funding, implementing and evaluating their programs. For instance, laws promoting equal employment opportunity for women require census data on sex. Also, sociologists, economists, and other researchers who analyze social and economic trends use the data.
What is Person 1's age and Date of Birth?
Asked since 1800. Federal, state, and local governments need data about age to interpret most social and economic characteristics, such as forecasting the number of people eligible for Social Security or Medicare benefits. The data are widely used in planning and evaluating government programs and policies that provide funds or services for children, working-age adults, women of childbearing age, or the older population.
Is Person 1 of Hispanic, Latino or Spanish origin?
Asked since 1970. The data collected in this question are needed by federal agencies to monitor compliance with anti-discrimination provisions, such as under the Voting Rights Act and the Civil Rights Act. State and local governments may use the data to help plan and administer bilingual programs for people of Hispanic origin.
What is Person 1's race?
Asked since 1790. Race is key to implementing many federal laws and is needed to monitor compliance with the Voting Rights Act and the Civil Rights Act. State governments use the data to determine congressional, state and local voting districts. Race data are also used to assess fairness of employment practices, to monitor racial disparities in characteristics such as health and education and to plan and obtain funds for public services.
Does Person 1 sometimes live or stay somewhere else?
This is another question we ask in order to ensure response accuracy and completeness and to contact respondents whose forms have incomplete or missing information.
Personally, I don't have a problem with it. There's far more information about me that the government gets, by law, that I have a far worse problem with than this.
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You realise that the Census helps determine how much representation you get in the House
That's why I answered with the number. ;/
Let's see ... a h-aon, a dha, a trì - I think I know how many people are living in my house. :P
Keeping track of the number of chickens is a little more difficult.
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I am hearing impared so calling me won't work. I do answer the phone but I never conduct business of any kind over the phone. I have a camp in the woods and my motorhome is parked there. I wonder if they will put two questionairs on them....chris3
Same case for me. This time the motor home was at the camp, but usually it is at the cabin in the woods. By the beginning of summer we will be headed North to mooch off some friends. If they stop by the cabin, we won't be there and the gate is locked so they will have to leave it hanging somewhere hoping we will get it. If they wait too long to come back here to the camp, we will be gone back to the cabin and will miss us, and the gate will be locked here too. =D
Yes I do consider anything other than the original mandate by Constitution to be not only invasive, but un Constitutional and therefore illegal. The questions they are asking have more to do with politics than economics, and frankly I don't trust politicians.
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You realise that the Census helps determine how much representation you get in the House, and how a lot of tax money is spent and allocated, right? It's also one of the few things our federal government does that it's directly mandated to do by the constitution (Article 1, Section 2 iirc)
This administration actually did away with the long form of the census. To give you an idea of what the long form was under Bill Clinton, check this out:
http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:S979SWnLKEEJ:www.census.gov/dmd/www/pdf/d-61b.pdf+long+form+census&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESj5iu-p6dCboAxvy78dhdbPm_TGXdeD-eDRs30r4CzEFc707daTcDMyqO5NkO7FRMrV_B-F6DrM8tez71bT_AkOmVEkVSum_dM-bX4-L1Vqqn95QRHU0eMmmxjclfIK7vnNVCdx&sig=AHIEtbRDp1znmZ9tuIVVdU78Gqqz0b-7Pw
Here's the ACTUAL text of the 2010 census questions for reference:
Personally, I don't have a problem with it. There's far more information about me that the government gets, by law, that I have a far worse problem with than this.
http://www.census.gov/acs/www/Downloads/ACS-1(info)(2010)%20Stateside%20English_web.pdf
I'm betting this is what people have a problem with. That's information I don't think the government should have and, if I get this form, will not provide.
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Mak, that one's voluntary do or don't as you see fit.
Personally I wouldn't either, it's pretty invasive.
I'd bet, however, that DU folks are scouring dumpsters for these thing so they can fill them out and send them in. There's a scary thought for you.
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Mak, that one's voluntary do or don't as you see fit.
Personally I wouldn't either, it's pretty invasive.
I'd bet, however, that DU folks are scouring dumpsters for these thing so they can fill them out and send them in. There's a scary thought for you.
Wood burning stoves are handy ;)
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Mak, that one's voluntary do or don't as you see fit.
Personally I wouldn't either, it's pretty invasive.
I'd bet, however, that DU folks are scouring dumpsters for these thing so they can fill them out and send them in. There's a scary thought for you.
Thgat's why you provide your phone number, in case some very helpful individual attempts to send in a form with your address in it more than once.
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9. What are you then?
65% oxygen
18% carbon
10% hydrogen
3% nitrogen
1.5% calcium
1.2% phosphorous
0.2% potassium
0.2% sulfer
0.2% chlorine
0.1% sodium
0.05% magnesium
3.8g iron
less than 0.05% each cobalt, copper, zinc, and iodine
less than 0.01% each selenium and flourine
(all percentages are by mass)
Seems like a bad idea, unless you want to get shipped off to a chemistry lab, killed, then your remains analyzed.
Seriously, 10 questions? I was getting all prepared for a 2 minute hate and there's barely enough for a 30 second hate.
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We just got our letter in the mail notifying us that we will be getting the census next week and that we should fill it out and send it back as quickly as possible.
Ahh .gov wastes more money notifying me that they are sending something to me next week. ;/
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We just got our letter in the mail notifying us that we will be getting the census next week and that we should fill it out and send it back as quickly as possible.
Ahh .gov wastes more money notifying me that they are sending something to me next week. ;/
Hey, that's the way we roll...
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We just got our letter in the mail notifying us that we will be getting the census next week and that we should fill it out and send it back as quickly as possible.
Ahh .gov wastes more money notifying me that they are sending something to me next week. ;/
Whoa! Seems to me like the dot.gov/census is getting way ahead of itself =|
They should have sent you a letter telling you that they will be sending you a letter telling you that you will be getting the census next week and that you should fill it out and send it back as quickly as possible. ;)
There they go - cutting corners again ;/
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I will answer the number of humans who reside at my address.
I will also answer Question 9 as follows:
http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=NDAzNTgyZTM4NGRiMzUxNDk2MzljMDBlMDdlYTQxMzU=
Sending a Message with the Census [Mark Krikorian]
John: I haven't gotten my letter from the Census Bureau yet asking me to make sure I fill out the questionnaire. But when I do fill it out, I'll use it to send a message.
Fully one-quarter of the space on this year's form is taken up with questions of race and ethnicity, which are clearly illegitimate and none of the government's business (despite the New York Times' assurances to the contrary on today's editorial page). So until we succeed in building the needed wall of separation between race and state, I have a proposal. Question 9 on the census form asks "What is Person 1's race?" (and so on, for other members of the household). My initial impulse was simply to misidentify my race so as to throw a monkey wrench into the statistics; I had fun doing this on the personal-information form my college required every semester, where I was a Puerto Rican Muslim one semester, and a Samoan Buddhist the next. But lying in this constitutionally mandated process is wrong. Really — don't do it.
Instead, we should answer Question 9 by checking the last option — "Some other race" — and writing in "American." It's a truthful answer but at the same time is a way for ordinary citizens to express their rejection of unconstitutional racial classification schemes. In fact, "American" was the plurality ancestry selection for respondents to the 2000 census in four states and several hundred counties.
So remember: Question 9 — "Some other race" — "American". Pass it on.
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We just got our letter in the mail notifying us that we will be getting the census next week and that we should fill it out and send it back as quickly as possible.
Ahh .gov wastes more money notifying me that they are sending something to me next week. ;/
I just got mine.
Once I get the census, I'm seriously considering sending them a letter telling them to expect the census from me in about a week.
I know I'm just waisting my own time, but it's funny to me. :lol:
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We just got our letter in the mail notifying us that we will be getting the census next week and that we should fill it out and send it back as quickly as possible.
Ahh .gov wastes more money notifying me that they are sending something to me next week. ;/
There's actually a good reason for this. The Dillman Survey Design method is a well researched method for doing these types of things: http://www.amazon.com/Mail-Telephone-Surveys-Design-Method/dp/0471215554
It's been researched and usually provides an 80% response rate to telephone/mail surveys. The method includes a pre-notice letter. It's one of those things that sounds like a waste until you study the methodologies involved.
EDIT: Read this (http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:KOrB38c5DR8J:www.ssri.psu.edu/survey/msi.ppt+dillman+total+design+method&cd=6&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a) for a quick rundown on what the Dillman method is and how it works. here (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2328022/) is a study on it that I quickly found via google.
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Is Person 1 of Hispanic, Latino or Spanish origin?
Asked since 1970. The data collected in this question are needed by federal agencies to monitor compliance with anti-discrimination provisions, such as under the Voting Rights Act and the Civil Rights Act. State and local governments may use the data to help plan and administer bilingual programs for people of Hispanic origin.
Government ought not be doing this in the first place. Since they are, I see this as an excellent opportunity for downsizing the bureaucracy.
What is Person 1's race?
Asked since 1790. Race is key to implementing many federal laws and is needed to monitor compliance with the Voting Rights Act and the Civil Rights Act. State governments use the data to determine congressional, state and local voting districts. Race data are also used to assess fairness of employment practices, to monitor racial disparities in characteristics such as health and education and to plan and obtain funds for public services.
Government ought not be doing this, either. Either a person is an American . . . or they're not. Subdividing Americans on criteria such as skin color is odious. The only race that matters is the HUMAN race.
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Samsonite is my favorite race question answer.
So since I am Dark European, Native American and Hebrew what do I choose for a race?
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Samsonite is my favorite race question answer.
So since I am Dark European, Native American and Hebrew what do I choose for a race?
Black Latino Female Pacific Islander of Native Alaskan origin with multiple physical, cognitive and emotional disabilities who is a self-employed FMBO (Female Minority Business Owner) unmarried single parent head of household POOSSLQ (Person Of Opposite Sex Sharing Living Quarters).
That ought to cover the spread.
stay safe.
skidmark
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Black Latino Female Pacific Islander of Native Alaskan origin with multiple physical, cognitive and emotional disabilities who is a self-employed FMBO (Female Minority Business Owner) unmarried single parent head of household POOSSLQ (Person Of Opposite Sex Sharing Living Quarters).
That ought to cover the spread.
stay safe.
skidmark
I thought you were a dude.
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I thought you were a dude.
I am. But why should that stop me from recommending a response for you to use. Let the .feds figure it out.
Remember, you can be anything you put your mind to. Even President of the USA. [barf]
stay safe.
skidmark
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After reading up on exactly what questions there were on the census, including name/age/race/etc., I came across this gem from "Census.gov" (specifically, http://2010.census.gov/partners/pdf/ConstituentFAQ.pdf)
32. Is information shared with Immigration and Customs Enforcement, the Internal Revenue Service, courts, or the police?
No, individual census records are not shared with anyone, including government agencies or private organizations. It is against the law for the Census Bureau to give personally identifiable information about an individual to any other individual or agency until 72 years after it is collected for the decennial census. After 72 years, the individual census records are sent to the National Archives where they are made public primarily for genealogical research.
My B.S. alarm went off pretty hard. Thoughts?
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Government ought not be doing this, either. Either a person is an American . . . or they're not. Subdividing Americans on criteria such as skin color is odious. The only race that matters is the HUMAN race.
The drawing up of congressional and other districts is very important to the preservation of your party as the majority party. Various minorities favor republicans or democrats heavily. By manipulating the district lines, you can minimize the power of these minorities, or increase them.
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After reading up on exactly what questions there were on the census, including name/age/race/etc., I came across this gem from "Census.gov" (specifically, http://2010.census.gov/partners/pdf/ConstituentFAQ.pdf)
32. Is information shared with Immigration and Customs Enforcement, the Internal Revenue Service, courts, or the police?
No, individual census records are not shared with anyone, including government agencies or private organizations. It is against the law for the Census Bureau to give personally identifiable information about an individual to any other individual or agency until 72 years after it is collected for the decennial census. After 72 years, the individual census records are sent to the National Archives where they are made public primarily for genealogical research.
My B.S. alarm went off pretty hard. Thoughts?
Heh, wasn't that pretty much my exact same response to you? I'd say this claim reeks heavily of shenanigans.
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Welcome to APS, kgbsquirrel. Are you actually a squirrel that worked in the KGB? :lol:
If you haven't yet, please take a sec to review the rules stickied at the top of this forum. (No, you haven't broken any. =) But, Ignorantia juris non excusat!)
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Ignorantia juris non excusat
Cha robh fios agam =|
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9. What are you then?
65% oxygen
18% carbon
10% hydrogen
3% nitrogen
1.5% calcium
1.2% phosphorous
0.2% potassium
0.2% sulfer
0.2% chlorine
0.1% sodium
0.05% magnesium
3.8g iron
less than 0.05% each cobalt, copper, zinc, and iodine
less than 0.01% each selenium and flourine
(all percentages are by mass)
LMAO! :laugh:
Personally, my wife and I are going to fill ours out accurately in an easy-to-read manner and promptly send ours back. I haven't any issues with the questions they're asking and it's sure as heck nothing new.
Now, if there comes a day where there are new questions such as about my firearms, religion, political standing and the like, then they can stick it.
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I just don't much like answering questions like these. I suppose I'm just weird, but... if they wanted to know where I am, who I am, etc., they already know. It's not that. I just don't like answering things like that. I don't know how to put it into words correctly. =|
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I just don't much like answering questions like these. I suppose I'm just weird, but... if they wanted to know where I am, who I am, etc., they already know. It's not that. I just don't like answering things like that. I don't know how to put it into words correctly. =|
Agree. ;)
If you don't want to register your guns, why would you want to register yourself?
The age of computer databases makes it worse. Back in 1850, you couldn't just type in my great grandaddy "Pine's" name and come up with address and GPS coordinates in 10 seconds. It's handy now to do geneological research, but I don't see that purpose mentioned in the Constitution.
And yes they could find out who I am through other means like the county tax records. In fact, they could do the entire census through research and statistical analysis, cheaper and probably more accurately.
Besides, I'm guessing that they're still going to miss some sheepherders, and some folks living in RVs full time with only a PMB for an address (not a bad idea, actually... ;) ).
I told the guy truthfully that no one lives in the houses behind us, that it's just a hunting camp. He took my word for it, but there could be a horde of aliens from Vega living up there for all anyone knows =D
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And yes they could find out who I am through other means like the county tax records. In fact, they could do the entire census through research and statistical analysis, cheaper and probably more accurately.
And the argument against that is that it would not be constitutional.
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Samsonite is my favorite race question answer.
So since I am Dark European, Native American and Hebrew what do I choose for a race?
i like to go with "Amirimutt". =D it gets some strange looks. [popcorn]
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>but there could be a horde of aliens from Vega living up there for all anyone knows<
Nah... I couldn't see you giving shelter to Vegans... >:D
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We had a woman from the census show up at our door last year asking for information about one of our (long-standing) tenants in a rental property we own across town. They had dropped something at her door and never got it back, and never could catch her at home when they stopped by the apartment. The woman at my door was asking me if my tenant still lived at our rental property.
I wasn't cooperative. She left.
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And the argument against that is that it would not be constitutional.
"enumeration ... in such manner as they shall by law direct."
Could you enlighten me? I see no impediment to an "enumeration" compiled from existing data. =|
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I predict widespread (attempts) at fining all the uncooperative residents of MT. =D
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I predict widespread (attempts) at fining all the uncooperative residents of MT. =D
They can't fine me because they don't know who I am :P
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Shall we start demanding bribes from Tallpine to not tell the census bureau who he is? >:D
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They can't fine me because they don't know who I am :P
I assumed they could fairly easily levy a fine against a whole household, to be paid "or else". Now that you mention it.... :lol:
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"enumeration ... in such manner as they shall by law direct."
Could you enlighten me? I see no impediment to an "enumeration" compiled from existing data. =|
Nope. I have no dog in this fight, and only know that I have read and heard in various media outlets--probably the NYT and NPR, that there is a widely recognized constitutional problem with not doing an actual count.
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Nope. I have no dog in this fight, and only know that I have read and heard in various media outlets--probably the NYT and NPR, that there is a widely recognized constitutional problem with not doing an actual count.
With sources like that, who can argue ? =D
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With sources like that, who can argue ? =D
Note that that prefaced by the statement that I can't back it up. The NYT is because my parents, for reasons beyond my understanding, for they are dyed-in-the-wool dittoheads, have subscribed to it for decades, and I read it from time to time for nostalgia's sake. The NPR is because they are a better car companion than music station DJs and ads.
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Talked to a Lady in town today who said the Census workers are scared to come out to our neck of the woods. Too bad I guess. I have seen their bags hanging all over the place here and where our cabin is, at residences where either no one lives, or they are only occasional and seasonal residences.
We took a drive down the dirt road we have our place off of and ended up on a paved road 20 miles away. There are so many dirt track driveways off of that, there is no way they can find all the folks bunkered down out here. And yes, I do mean bunkered down.
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And I'm confused ... do I count all of my personalities ? :laugh:
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And I'm confused ... do I count all of my personalities ? :laugh:
Only the ones that are currently talking to you or the ones that want .gov assistance. =D
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We took a drive down the dirt road we have our place off of and ended up on a paved road 20 miles away. There are so many dirt track driveways off of that, there is no way they can find all the folks bunkered down out here. And yes, I do mean bunkered down.
Well, there are worse neighbors than Burt Gummer . . .
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"enumeration ... in such manner as they shall by law direct."
Could you enlighten me? I see no impediment to an "enumeration" compiled from existing data. =|
Utah v. Evans, 536 U.S. 452 (2002), was the most recent U.S. Supreme Court case (that I know of) regarding the use of some statistical techniques rather than a straight head-count in the census. In a nutshell, the census used some sampling tomfoolery and Utah got hosed out of a congressional seat... but SCotUS said that the particular method(s) used were kosher.
But that's where I'd start a hunt for what methods are okay or not.
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Well, it arrived. Answers: "02", Person 1 "American", Person 2 "American", the rest was left blank. I have to draw a line somewhere with the Feds, and I (along with many others) have found questions regarding race, name, age, etc., to simply be over that line.
Here's hoping I don't get a fine, but, as Tallpine pointed out - prove it was me. =D
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to each his own
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I just had my tinfoil hat thought of the day.. if I were to lick the envelope to seal it, did I just give the feds a DNA sample? [tinfoil] =D
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I just had my tinfoil hat thought of the day.. if I were to lick the envelope to seal it, did I just give the feds a DNA sample? [tinfoil] =D
Hah, I ended up using gloves to handle it, filled it out with a new pen that was then thrown away, and used a gloved finger to get water from the tap... ;)
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We were away from our camp for most of a day and came home to find someone from the Census Bureau had come past our KEEP OUT sign way down at the road, walked up onto our porch, and stuck a plastic bag saying 2010 Census under the door handle. Huh? Since when are they allowed to trespass on private property?
Since we don't live here, using it only occasionally as the mood strikes, I have no intention of seeing what is in the bag. I think it might have fallen into the burn barrel, but I don't know that for sure.
What questions are you legally required to answer? I don't recall ever getting any census stuff before this so I really don't know.
You are required by law to respond to the census questionnaire and the implication is that a census worker has the right to come on your property to deliver the questionnaire. At least that is my understanding of the law.
If you don't send it back in then someone will come looking for it.
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They dropped off a census form at our occasionally used lakehouse last time around. Ignoring it brought no penalties. I'm certain that you would be safe treating your occasionally used property as same?
And we will be giving our standard answer of "4 adults and 1 child live here. Now go away." this year.
The tax assessor can slither all over your property, too. Came home one day to find a Jeep Cherokee one day with a County Tax Office sign on it. Caught him 'round back with a tape measure. I never knew they did that until that day.
Part of the criteria for leaving a questionnaire is whether or not the structure is fit to be used as a living quarters. Even cars can be considered to be a living quarter. The Obama people are especially interested in minorities and the homeless and I learned this from being in classes. Once anyone opens their questionnaire it should be patently obvious where the emphasis lies.
I think it is to ones advantage to be counted because federal money is apportioned based on head count in a region. It is not that I am big on handouts but if I help pay it in then I want some back.
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i like to go with "Amirimutt". =D it gets some strange looks. [popcorn]
It is quite obvious that is you are white then you are last choice for the gubmint. [barf]
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http://www.census.gov/acs/www/Downloads/ACS-1(info)(2010)%20Stateside%20English_web.pdf
I'm betting this is what people have a problem with. That's information I don't think the government should have and, if I get this form, will not provide.
That is not part of the main census effort coming up and it replaced in part the long form we used 10 years ago. Don't kid yourself, much of the info on the form is public knowledge, particularly if you are a public employee. Your property records are open to census workers.
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Hey, that's the way we roll...
Yeh, it's called stimulus spending. ;/
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After reading up on exactly what questions there were on the census, including name/age/race/etc., I came across this gem from "Census.gov" (specifically, http://2010.census.gov/partners/pdf/ConstituentFAQ.pdf)
32. Is information shared with Immigration and Customs Enforcement, the Internal Revenue Service, courts, or the police?
No, individual census records are not shared with anyone, including government agencies or private organizations. It is against the law for the Census Bureau to give personally identifiable information about an individual to any other individual or agency until 72 years after it is collected for the decennial census. After 72 years, the individual census records are sent to the National Archives where they are made public primarily for genealogical research.
My B.S. alarm went off pretty hard. Thoughts?
Supposedly the data becomes raw statistics and is not associated with any one named respondent.
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And the argument against that is that it would not be constitutional.
People move around a lot and houses are built and some fall down or burn out. Some structures become businesses rather than houses. County tax records tend to be out of date.
I have worked the census and although I do not buy the reasoning entirely I can see the rationale behind it. What you folks don't see is that there are census people on special projects nosing into your affairs all year long, year after year, and not every 10 years in April.
I worked last spring with a computer putting all residences on a census map with a map spot location that was provided by GPS. This past fall I worked on a project to locate and identify group homes, which are handled differently than ordinary housing units. Currently I am on a project, almost over, that rechecks specific areas where it is normally difficult to reach people via the mail service. I updated the address lists as needed and left each residence a census questionnaire.
I know it seems to be wasteful but the mailing you folks are receiving help to give advance notice that census workers wil be coming to their area. We are usually local folks out to make a few bucks and are not wanting to harm anyone so give us some slack.
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"enumeration ... in such manner as they shall by law direct."
Could you enlighten me? I see no impediment to an "enumeration" compiled from existing data. =|
The existing dat is not current in many cases.
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Only the ones that are currently talking to you or the ones that want .gov assistance. =D
Right, bottom feeders get counted twice.
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Well, got mine in the mail today. Yippee.
Brad
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Hey guys and gals, keep things in perspective. Save your ammo for the real threats, if they should come. By exposing yourself over this silly thing you are becoming a red dot on some lawman's wall chart. Stay in your fox holes and keep your powder dry, as my boss used to say.
The constitution says we will have a census every ten years and it is left to Congress as to what and how it is done, so get used to it.
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The constitution says we will have a census every ten years and it is left to Congress as to what and how it is done, so get used to it.
Constitution of the United States of America, Article 1, Section 2, Clause 3:
"Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons. The actual Enumeration shall be made within three Years after the first Meeting of the Congress of the United States, and within every subsequent Term of ten Years, in such Manner as they shall by Law direct. ...*"
Before I begin, I would like to remind everyone of the one of the basic tenets of law. Law states what the citizen may not do and conversely the law states what the government may do. With that in mind I would like to draw your attention to the portion of the supreme law of our land, the constitution, that gives the government the authority to conduct a census. This law specifically mentions what information may be collected and what that information may be used for.
The first highlighted portion details that the census information is to be collected in order to allocate the number of representatives that each state of the Union will receive and also for the apportionment of direct taxes. Because the law states what the government may do, but exclusion all things not mentioned are expressly forbidden to the government. To wit, the use of census information to allocate federal funds, welfare programs or any purpose other than direct taxes and allocation of representatives is unconstitutional, or more simply illegal.
Now, the second and third highlighted portions detail the information which may collected. This is brutally simple. The sum of the whole number of free persons. The enumeration (read counting) of all persons in the many states of this Union. No where does it state the ethnicity of the whole number of persons, the address of the whole number of persons, the names, phone numbers, insurance information, income of the whole number of persons, et cetera ad nauseam. Again that nagging little quirk of law comes into play stating that any power or authority not expressly given to the government is verboten.
The explicit writing of this clause of the constitution is very clear and well delineates that the purpose of the census is narrow and only allows the collecting of one piece of information; how many people are in each state. In fact the only discretion that the congress possesses is the "Manner" in which this information is collected, be it person to person, by mail, by telephone. However, that discretion does NOT extend to what other information may be collected or what other purposes it is used for.
*The remaining portion clipped out and represented by "..." details the number of representatives to be allocated to the original states at the time of initial ratification and the minimum population represented by a single representative.
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I think it might have fallen into the burn barrel, but I don't know that for sure.
Just leave it hanging on the door knob and when they come back to check, it will suggest that no body lives there.
I got my Census form today. How many people live here I will reply honestly. The "What is your race, I will also reply honestly with "US Citizen".
I put in "American" last census, but I realized that there is North, Central and South America to choose from.
how many people live th
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I prefer "human" to the "race" question. And you could argue it fairly effectively, too; race is in fact an artificial construct that has no real basis in biology. Use their lefty tropes against them. ;)
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filled it out at the mailbox drama free experience and is ready for the nice postlady to pickup
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I prefer "human" to the "race" question. And you could argue it fairly effectively, too; race is in fact an artificial construct that has no real basis in biology. Use their lefty tropes against them. ;)
The idea of "race," pisses me off... I have no problem with "ethnicity," however. Ethnicity is cultural, regional, traditional, or in some other way and form a demonstrable thing. But "race" has no real measure at all. Okay, I've read that certain genetic markers have differing frequencies between continents, so a guy in a labcoat could reasonably say whether Joe Blow or John Doe has more genetic markers from Africa or not, but that's still kinda weak.
From the colonial days forward, North Americans have generally been lumped into three important "races:" Native Americans (Indians), African Americans (Blacks), and European Americans (Whites). But consider how those categories have been assigned and in many cases still are assigned - with 18th Century concepts like the "one drop" or "mestizo" rules.
Do you have "one drop" of known "Black blood," then you are a Black, regardless of how white your skin may actually be, in the early 20th century, this concept of "invisible blackness" was made statutory in many states.
American Indians got the reverse treatment, in essence, with Indian racial status being defined by a certain percentage of "Indian blood." Too many John Smiths and not enough John Redcorns in the family tree, and you're not an Indian anymore.
The motivations for both rest soley at the feet of the "pure Whites" left over. Look, I hate the school of thought that tries to "blame Whitey" for all the ills of the world, but this stupid race system WAS created by a bunch of (now) dead white men... The goal of such racial designations was to concentrate power, wealth, privilege and land in the hands of Whites in a society of White hegemony and privilege. The 17th, 18th, and 19th Centuries were when most of this thinking originated (the Spainards' "mestizo" rules, the Southern plantation system, and westward settlement) and our society was one of of White hegemony and privilege no matter how much you hate "political correctness." But I digress...
Bottomline, the one-drop rule of Black identity enabled Whites to preserve their agricultural labor force and the pure Indian blood definition of Native American identity enabled Whites to acquire Amerindian lands.
Both ideas are, in essence, racist bullshit.
As too how I'll aswer that question on the census myself... um... ask BridgeWalker.
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you can and i did check multiple boxes
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It seems that the following part of the constitution provides some wiggle room as to what info is collected.
"in such Manner as they shall by Law direct. ...*"
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Hah, I ended up using gloves to handle it, filled it out with a new pen that was then thrown away, and used a gloved finger to get water from the tap... ;)
Well, as long as you used gloves without powder on them and didn't buy the pen with a credit card, you're safe doing both of those. But, if you used water from the tap in your home, they got you. It only takes a second to analyze the impurities in the water to be able to pinpoint where the water came from. [tinfoil]
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We had a woman from the census show up at our door last year asking for information about one of our (long-standing) tenants in a rental property we own across town. They had dropped something at her door and never got it back, and never could catch her at home when they stopped by the apartment. The woman at my door was asking me if my tenant still lived at our rental property.
I wasn't cooperative. She left.
So what have you proven? The census worker was simply wanting to get an accurate assessment of the situation. I go to the post office for certain things, to the neighbors, and to the courthouse. Most people are very cooperative and are curious about what I am doing but a few are victims of the negative spin put on the process by the media. I have had to console a number of older widows, and in the end we had a good time of it. It is all in how you treat people and how you come off to them. Older people are very helpful because they are lonely and because they see the need to do their civic duty. Some of the younger ones are uncomfy because they are shacking up or are using drugs. That is none of my business, technically speaking, as a census taker, but I still have personal convictions about such things.
A funny incident happened to me in 2000. I was interviewingg this young girl while her smelly kid crawled around over me and she was shacking up with this dude. Out of the blue she told me her place used to be a cat house. :facepalm:
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filled it out at the mailbox drama free experience and is ready for the nice postlady to pickup
No drama here either - I wrote "3" in the box, stuck it in the envelope, sealed it, and left it in the mailbox with the flag up :P
"civic duty" done ;)
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I don't know what the guidelines are now for an acceptable questionnaire but in 2000 I used to "grade papers" so to speak, and there were certain fields that could be left blank and yet not invalidate the questionnaire.
I have no basis for this but my gut but it seems if the response was merely the number of people at an address that should be sufficient. As to the phone number, that is sometimes used by QC people to check and see if the enumerator is actually doing his job or is pencil whipping the returns.
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So what have you proven? The census worker was simply wanting to get an accurate assessment of the situation.
Not really sure what you are asking, but I suppose if I've proven anything, it's that I respect the privacy of my tenants.
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It seems that the following part of the constitution provides some wiggle room as to what info is collected.
"in such Manner as they shall by Law direct. ...*"
Seeing as inflection is so hard to convey with text I would like to point out that the next is an actual serious question put forth without contempt or deprecation. Did you read anything that I wrote?
There are one hundred sixty four words in that clause of the constitution and you have only quoted nine of them without taking any of the others or how they interact into account. Would you please go back and read my previous post in it's entirety and then further explain your position; that those nine words give congress the authority to decide which information to collect and for what purpose to use it.
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So how much trouble am I going to be i for using a color of ink that was not blue or black?
I am not tearing the place apart to find a pen of a specific color just to fill out some form. If the optical scanner cannot read it I suppose I have "created" a job for someone and thus ought to be congratulated by the gooberment.
And yes, I am absolutely, positively, unequivicolably (sp??) pretty much almost sorta-kinda maybe sure about how many of me liver here. I called a meeting of all the voices, threatening to withhold ice cream until they were all present, so that a count could be conducted. We then assembled as a consensus caucus to decide on the divisor to use, and then rounded the result to the next highest whole number, which was that number appearing between zero and two in base 10 counting.
Took the envelope to the Post Office to drop it in the mailbox. I might have accidentally dropped it into the one marked "Stamped". Our civic duty done for the next ten years the voices and I drove to 7-11 to pick up ice cream.
stay safe.
skidmark
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base 10 counting
Dang! I just realized that the census form did not specify the base number system :O
I should have written down "11" =D
There are 10 kinds of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't ;)
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The idea of "race," pisses me off... I have no problem with "ethnicity," however. Ethnicity is cultural, regional, traditional, or in some other way and form a demonstrable thing. But "race" has no real measure at all. Okay, I've read that certain genetic markers have differing frequencies between continents, so a guy in a labcoat could reasonably say whether Joe Blow or John Doe has more genetic markers from Africa or not, but that's still kinda weak.
From the colonial days forward, North Americans have generally been lumped into three important "races:" Native Americans (Indians), African Americans (Blacks), and European Americans (Whites). But consider how those categories have been assigned and in many cases still are assigned - with 18th Century concepts like the "one drop" or "mestizo" rules.
Do you have "one drop" of known "Black blood," then you are a Black, regardless of how white your skin may actually be, in the early 20th century, this concept of "invisible blackness" was made statutory in many states.
American Indians got the reverse treatment, in essence, with Indian racial status being defined by a certain percentage of "Indian blood." Too many John Smiths and not enough John Redcorns in the family tree, and you're not an Indian anymore.
The motivations for both rest soley at the feet of the "pure Whites" left over. Look, I hate the school of thought that tries to "blame Whitey" for all the ills of the world, but this stupid race system WAS created by a bunch of (now) dead white men... The goal of such racial designations was to concentrate power, wealth, privilege and land in the hands of Whites in a society of White hegemony and privilege. The 17th, 18th, and 19th Centuries were when most of this thinking originated (the Spainards' "mestizo" rules, the way.
My mistake. this needs to be deleted.
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Darius, if you came to someone's door doing a Census count, and saw this married couple:
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi156.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ft33%2FAJ_Dual%2Fzardoz-1.jpg&hash=81ebfc9c38da3dbd2d92d86dbb2c5effec109ea5) (https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi156.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ft33%2FAJ_Dual%2Fzardoz-1973-08-g-1.jpg&hash=d34f084341cc706eaf7af6ee22ec4dd5574829a9)
What would you do?
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Filled it out and put "American" as race for all four of us.
I'll be wearing my Red Diaper with Suspenders and Knee High boots when the census person comes to the door. =D =D
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Filled it out and put "American" as race for all four of us.
I'll be wearing my Red Diaper with Suspenders and Knee High boots when the census person comes to the door. =D =D
Scout! :mad:
You said you'd let me wear the suspenders this time and you'd wear the dress! You're going back on your promise! =(
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The idea of "race," pisses me off... I have no problem with "ethnicity,"
I know a guy that has fun with this sort of thing. If you go back long enough, all of his known ancestors are European. BUT . . . his grandparents were all born in South Africa or Rhodesia, as were his parents. He was born here . . . so as far as any racial profiling goes, he's African-American.
BTW, he doesn't actually go in for that "hyphenated American" cr@p, but he's convinced it got him some additional financial aid in college. (This I believe, since the same happened to me once I realized I was a Native American. =D )
No drama here either - I wrote "3" in the box, stuck it in the envelope, sealed it, and left it in the mailbox with the flag up :P
"civic duty" done ;)
Did just that when I got the (very intrusive!) long form in 2000. Never heard back - end of story.
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Did just that when I got the (very intrusive!) long form in 2000. Never heard back - end of story.
Yeah, from the number of people I know on both sides of the freedom coin that still find this form intrusive, I doubt any widespread fines or jailtime will be doled out. Wouldn't be practical.
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Filled it out and put "American" as race for all four of us.
I did the same I did think about Euroinjunbrew-American for me and German-American for my wife.
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Got mine. Going to fill it out with "other un-hyphenated-American" as the race (note the hyphens) >:D
Really, why not answer the census short form? The most important part of the census is the assignment of congresscritters.
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why not answer the census short form?
Why not register your guns? ;)
Somehow, being on a massive electronic database with GPS coordinates doesn't feel so good... =|
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Inor and I received our form yesterday. Answered question number one. Mailed it today. That is all they need to know and to us it will be worth the $100.00 penalty if it should come to that. I intend to pay it all in pennies.
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I remember in 2000 there was a "long form" with a BUNCH of much more detailed questions: what job, income, what kind of car you drive, education, military service, etc..
Is there one of those this time?
No, the decennial long-form census questionnaire has been replaced by the ongoing American Community Survey. Seems to be basically the same thing, except it's running ALL THE TIME, not just once every decade.
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I have no problem with participating because I have no fear. You can be sure that if .gov is interested in you, they already know way more than your census answers will tell them.
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Inor and I received our form yesterday. Answered question number one. Mailed it today. That is all they need to know and to us it will be worth the $100.00 penalty if it should come to that. I intend to pay it all in pennies.
And get on a watch list by doing so?
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Just got my form. Gotta wonder who makes these things up. Technically, I can't even fill it out for another three weeks. It's March, and the question asks how many people "are" living at this address as of some date in April of 2010. How do I know? I could have a heart attack and die before that date.
I gave them number of people and names. That's all that is needed to establish a census. My wife's and my ethnicity and race have nothing to do with how many representatives this state sends to Washington.
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And get on a watch list by doing so?
If not answering the census gets one on a watch list, then paranoia is more than justified =|
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If not answering the census is all it takes to get on a list, I must already be on so many lists one more won't hurt.
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On St. Patty's Day
Everyone is Irish!
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On St. Patty's Day
Everyone is Irish!
Well, I'm Irish and Scots all year long. :cool:
Eirean gu brath!
Alba gu brath!
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I have no problem with participating because I have no fear. You can be sure that if .gov is interested in you, they already know way more than your census answers will tell them.
That's pretty much how I feel.
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I have no problem with participating because I have no fear. You can be sure that if .gov is interested in you, they already know way more than your census answers will tell them.
That's pretty much how I feel.
The Constitution still says they are to count the population every 10 years, not ask all kinds of personal questions.
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And get on a watch list by doing so?
A little prank like that results in a watch-listing? Who told you this?
If true, it's scary. Scary, because our watch lists would then be pointless.
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A little prank like that results in a watch-listing? Who told you this?
If true, it's scary. Scary, because our watch lists would then be pointless.
Oh, I don't know; having pointless watch lists might be a good thing. The feds have only so many people to do the watching, so eventually, if enough people get on the list, there won't be near enough watchers to watch everyone and the watch lists will not only be pointless, but useless.
Of course, it can backfire. A group of dissidents in Soviet Russia attempted to do just that. Stalin created the Gulags and "purged" everyone on the lists instead.
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Oh, I don't know; having pointless watch lists might be a good thing. The feds have only so many people to do the watching, so eventually, if enough people get on the list, there won't be near enough watchers to watch everyone and the watch lists will not only be pointless, but useless.
Of course, it can backfire. A group of dissidents in Soviet Russia attempted to do just that. Stalin created the Gulags and "purged" everyone on the lists instead.
The feds will stop at nothing to prove their point. There is a story going around about 2 suited IRS agents going into a car wash after 4 cents.
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Oh, I don't know; having pointless watch lists might be a good thing. The feds have only so many people to do the watching, so eventually, if enough people get on the list, there won't be near enough watchers to watch everyone and the watch lists will not only be pointless, but useless.
That was my point, yes.
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Of course, it can backfire. A group of dissidents in Soviet Russia attempted to do just that. Stalin created the Gulags and "purged" everyone on the lists instead.
Except we're armed and shoot back ;)
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Except we're armed and shoot back ;)
You just succinctly summed up why I reside in MT.
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Except we're armed and shoot back ;)
That is true. =D
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Filled it out and put "American" as race for all four of us.
Same here. Maybe, if enough citizens answer "America" we can get it on the "Acceptable Race" list.
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I think it is to ones advantage to be counted because federal money is apportioned based on head count in a region.
Not if one lives in a place lke L.A. and would prefer that that place get less pull nationally...
the negative spin put on the process by the media.
You're kidding, right? All I've seen from the media is cheerleading about how we should all respond to the census so we can get as much of other people's money as possible.
I didn't see this posted in this thread yet, my apologies if it was: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XtuPvwBa2U
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I answered all of them but the phone number question.
Are they really going to fine me because I don't have a phone?
I may or may not have purchased a cellphone after I filled out the census form and it may or may not have minutes that I did not feel like wasting on the census people calling me.
~Norinco
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Same here. Maybe, if enough citizens answer "America" we can get it on the "Acceptable Race" list.
I can't swear that it's true, but last time the census came around I understand some tens of thousands of Californians listed "Jedi" as their religion . . .
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I believe you're thinking of the Commonwealth countries...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jedi_census_phenomenon
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http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/03/2...cuddly-as.html
Posted on Tuesday, 03.23.10
Census Bureau not as `cuddly' as it seems
BY GLENN GARVIN
ggarvin@MiamiHerald.com
Like most bureaucrats, Robert Groves, the director of the U.S. Census Bureau, has cultivated a poker face that works pretty well when he's fending off irksome questions from congressmen about why he spent $2.5 million on a TV ad during the Super Bowl or $3 million training employees who were fired before they worked a single day.
But through careful observation of Groves' body language, it's possible for trained observers to interpret his words. When he scratches his right ear, for instance, he's telling the truth. When he cups his chin in his hand or rests a finger on his left cheek, he's telling the truth.
And when he waves a census form in his hand and says, `Your answers are confidential, the Census Bureau cannot give out information that identifies you or your household,'' he's lying.
Maybe ``lying'' is too harsh a characterization. Maybe we should regard his promise of confidentiality as simply a Reader's Digest version of the full truth, which would be: ``The Census Bureau won't give out information that identifies you or your household unless some other branch of the government wants it so they can burn your home, lock you up in an internment camp, or put you under warrantless surveillance as part of a racial-profiling exercise.''
No branch of the American government lies more profligately about its ugly past than the Census Bureau, which tries desperately to portray itself as a cuddly little band of apolitical bean-counters. The reality is that whenever some U.S. government agency decides to go bare-knuckles on its own citizens, the Census Bureau is usually there acting as the waterboy:
• During the Civil War, the bureau provided maps annotated with 1860 census data to Union Gen. William T. Sherman, who used them to launch a war not on the Confederacy's army but on its civilian population. The most infamous product of the Census Bureau's assistance was Sherman's march from Atlanta to the sea, a 300-mile swath of looting and destruction that would properly have been labeled a war crime if the Japanese or German armies had done it in World War II.
Not that Sherman lost his table manners: Afterward, he sent a polite note thanking the Census Bureau for its maps and research. ``Without them, I would not have undertaken what was done.''
• Early in the 20th century, the Census Bureau was virtually a field office of the Justice Department. Census data was used to help catch draft dodgers during World War I and to help round up left-wing immigrants for deportation during the Palmer Raids of the 1920s.
• In 2002 and 2003, the Census Bureau helpfully sent the Department of Homeland Security lists of ZIP Codes with high concentrations of Arabs, broken down by country of origin. But don't worry! Homeland Security says it just wanted the information so it could make better airport signs.
• Most notoriously, the Census Bureau was at the heart of the internment of 110,000 Japanese Americans (two-thirds of them U.S. citizens) during World War II -- and not at all reluctantly. Within five days of the attack on Pearl Harbor, the bureau had issued three reports using 1940 census data to pinpoint the Japanese-American population by state, city and county.
Eventually, the bureau's statisticians got directly involved. When a new roundup was planned, Census Bureau employees met with Justice Department agents. They ``would lay out on a table various city blocks where the Japanese lived and they would tell me how many were living in each block,'' recalled Tom Clark, then running the Justice Department's alien-control office and later a Supreme Court justice. After that, it was easy for the U.S. Army to conduct house-to-house sweeps.
And if they missed a few, a Census Bureau official said in a 1942 report recently uncovered by historians, ``I would give them further means of checking individuals.'' That is, names.
To be fair, not every leak springing from the Census Bureau results in prison or deportation. Sometimes it's just good clean gossipy fun. In 1981, when I was editing a now-defunct political magazine called Inquiry, we published a first-person account of life inside the Census Bureau's Cleveland office during the 1980 count.
Among the various horrific tales of incompetence, backbiting and general political pork-grinding, the author recounted how work in the office came to a screeching halt when somebody opened an envelope and found the returned form of a popular local TV anchor. ``Did he put that weather girl down on his form?'' one employee called out. ``I wonder if they've got a thing going.'' I'm not going to tell you what the answer was. But don't worry. The Justice Department is probably calling to ask right now.
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Interesting side note.
They were at the local mall here in my town in VA this last weekend. In force. Handing out balloons, forms, stickers, etc etc. There must have been 15-20 workers.
Prince William county and Woodbridge, VA, are both very heavily Hispanic.
It was almost like they were recruiting for people to support the census.
And, Obama is about to start pushing Immigration reform.
I believe in coincidence. This doesn't smell like a coincidnce to me.
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Interesting side note.
They were at the local mall here in my town in VA this last weekend. In force. Handing out balloons, forms, stickers, etc etc. There must have been 15-20 workers.
Prince William county and Woodbridge, VA, are both very heavily Hispanic.
It was almost like they were recruiting for people to support the census.
And, Obama is about to start pushing Immigration reform.
I believe in coincidence. This doesn't smell like a coincidnce to me.
What's that saying:
Once is Happenstance,
Twice is a Coincidence,
Thrice is Enemy Action.......
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Same here. Maybe, if enough citizens answer "America" we can get it on the "Acceptable Race" list.
I actually did this, too. I expect to have a census worker visit, but hey.
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I actually did this, too. I expect to have a census worker visit, but hey.
I wrote American last census, and again this year, and they did not say anything, but withe Obama in there it is hard to say what they will do.
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Failure to send in the paper form will summon the ever returning census worker to your door step.
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I also put in "American". I left phone number blank. I did not answer the "Are you a Latino?" question.
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I didn't fill in the birth dates. X'ed out the empty spaces, too, lest some former ACORN worker turn around and add 3 or 4 more bodies to my household, considering I live in an area that is very (D). [tinfoil]
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Failure to send in the paper form will summon the ever returning census worker to your door step.
Not here...they see the backhoe in the driveway and several acres of wooded land, and most of them are bright enough to see the implication...so they leave us alone. Works pretty darn well on other nuisance visitors, too.
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I got my FINAL WARNING in the mail today. Fill out the smaller, thinner (but same number of questions) forms NAOW or a Census Enumerator will visit you.
OK, so I had filled out the first form & put it on the desk where it worked its way down below surface level. I noticed that both return envelopes requested that I insert the material so the bar code and the address of the residence were visible thru the window.
I might have gotten that right. I did not bother to look.
Off to the PO to submit to the Census before they start sending folks out to see me. Too bad they will not get my version of Mr. Walken's routine. Could have been interesting to pull off with handgun on hip.
stay safe.
skidmark
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Off to the PO to submit to the Census before they start sending folks out to see me. Too bad they will not get my version of Mr. Walken's routine. Could have been interesting to pull off with handgun on hip.
I must have really scared the crap out of the guy that visited last year to log the GPS coordinates as we haven't gotten a single form in the mail or an unwanted visitor. I didn't even have a visible gun on me. I just growled at the guy about what the hell he wanted and why he was on my property...
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Off to the PO to submit to the Census before they start sending folks out to see me. Too bad they will not get my version of Mr. Walken's routine. Could have been interesting to pull off with handgun on hip.
What would be your weapon of choice? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7Ky5R-vxns)
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What would be your weapon of choice? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7Ky5R-vxns)
Being an old white guy there is no way I am going to walk with rhythm. =D
For Census Enumerators I'm thinking a wheelgun in magnum - prolly .44 but I could drop down to a 1917 in .45acp.
stay safe.
skidmark
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mini14 on a sling :angel:
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Anybody here watch Adult Swim? I got a laugh out of one of their recent bumps:
http://www.bumpworthy.com/bumps/2270
The sound makes it....
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By the time they come around to my neck of the woods to discuss my answers, if at all, I'll be long moved out. Only here a short while longer! :lol:
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There was a recent article citing Karl Rowe in which he was quoted to say:
In an e-mail, Rove said he agreed to participate, "Because the Census settles apportionment of Congress and the current distrust of Washington should not discourage people from being counted."
His participation and subsequent comments come as some Republicans worry that anti-government sentiment will lead to lower census participation rates in conservative areas of the country, resulting in fewer Republican seats in Congress and state legislatures.
It makes sense and then it hit me. Had someone started a national campaign last year and suggested that every conservative who lives in a conservative area fill out the form and have them also actively promote the census locally - and - every conservative who lives in an area that is overwhelmingly liberal not fill one out and talk up not doing, it could have had an interesting impact on the count. Oh well, hindsight and all that.
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Well, I "participated" - I sent the form back with only the number of persons living here filled out.
:P
If anyone else comes around wanting more information, I'm going to run them off not too politely. :police:
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I inadvertently screwed up and filled it out with red ink. When I was done, I noticed the instruction to use blue or black ink. I hope I can access APS from Gitmo!
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I told them there are 04 people at my residence.
I've been enumerated and that's good enough.
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I've been enumerated and that's good enough
I also let them know that we are Americans.
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I told them there are 04 people at my residence.
I've been enumerated and that's good enough.
that was my answer as well, that is all the constitution requires.
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Hmmm...I guess I had better get around to filling it out before they come knocking...
Sawdust
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Still not sure what to do. I have yet to recieve a form...My neighborhood isn't on most maps yet (it is so the street names are not even on any satellite maps or google or etc)
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Thread is now back on topic. IF the thread drift can be civil it can be RESTARTED IN POLITICS!
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Still not sure what to do. I have yet to recieve a form...My neighborhood isn't on most maps yet (it is so the street names are not even on any satellite maps or google or etc)
Brand new housing development? I've often wondered how Google maps finds out about new neighborhoods and how long it takes them to get a team out there.
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Brand new housing development? I've often wondered how Google maps finds out about new neighborhoods and how long it takes them to get a team out there.
House I live in has been here for less than 4 years, street has been here less than 5 years. So, less than 5 years, it seems.
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Yeah my
lemon House was one of the first 6 built in this subdivision that is steadily growing...Heck they are putting up new houses in record time. 2 months start to finish for the last one the built.
I know it took about 3 years in my previous house for Google to show up.
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this (http://www.teleatlas.com/OurProducts/MapData/index.htm) seems to be where google gets its maps tomtom to, you can suggest updates. [popcorn] if your sure you want to. [tinfoil]
=D http://www.google.com/intl/en_us/help/terms_maps.html
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Last time I checked, the google satellite picture of our place is five years old. (2005)
So no - you can't watch me peeing out in the yard! :P
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Last time I checked, the google satellite picture of our place is five years old. (2005)
So no - you can't watch me peeing out in the yard! :P
Well, we could, but not via Google. :lol:
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Just heard that this weekend the Enumerators were headed for the "difficult to count" neighborhoods in Richmond, Va.
Will have to check the Sunday paper to see what the body count is.
stay safe.
skidmark
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Well, we could, but not via Google. :lol:
Okay, I'm drinking coffee now. Watch out in a few minutes :P
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Okay, I'm drinking coffee now. Watch out in a few minutes :P
Be careful you don't spill that...or at least put some pants on first.... =D
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Be careful you don't spill that...or at least put some pants on first.... =D
That's the way to run off the census taker >:D
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Just heard that this weekend the Enumerators were headed for the "difficult to count" neighborhoods in Richmond, Va.
Will have to check the Sunday paper to see what the body count is.
stay safe.
skidmark
OK, I had that a bit wrong. The Enumerators don't start their roundups until the 16th. Residents are asked to mail back census forms by April 16. Those who don't will get a visit from a census worker.
This was the "Let's make sure the numbers are in our favor 'cause there's money tied to them figures" folks trying to get more forms filled out. http://www2.timesdispatch.com/rtd/news/local/article/CENS11_20100410-221611/336429/
At locations across the city, volunteers knocked on doors, stopped people on the street, set up information tables and even rode in motorcycle brigades with the goal of increasing the area's census form completion rate. It was part of a national "March to the Mailbox" campaign during which the census tracts with the lowest response rates in each jurisdiction were targeted for extra outreach
"We cannot emphasize too much the importance of the census for the city of Richmond and what it means in terms of pulling down federal dollars, for categorizing our city as a small city versus a medium-sized city. We have to be over 200,000. We have to do better this time than we did the last time so those dollars can flow to our community."
"They move from place to place a lot, too. They may be staying with a friend or relative, and they figure they may be counted somewhere else. Or they don't want to be counted." Casasnovas said staff at the city's Hispanic Liaison Office in Southside Plaza shopping center are helping residents fill out forms.
About the only good thing I read was this: One woman asked to see some official identification, and after [Councilwoman] Newbille showed hers, she took a census form and completed it.
All was good up until the last 8 words.
OK, it's not world-stops-spinning-ly bad stuff happening, but it still gets my goat that the basic purpose of the enumeration is seen by politicians as the means to collecting someone else's money to spend on useless projects.
Now I'm really hoping that the green ink I used to write "1" on the form before sealing the envelope and mailing it back somehow creates an extra-big glitch in the smooth functioning of the automated works. Just cause I'm feeling mean. :P
stay safe.
skidmark
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green ink? was it Noodler's Zhivago (http://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php?/topic/1527-noodlers-zhivago/). [popcorn] on second thought they probably couldn't tell it wasn't black. :facepalm:
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Are The Enumerators authorized, encouraged, or allowed to document a person's race if that person won't respond to that question on the census form?
For example, since I wrote in American as my race, if The Enumerator comes to my house and sees that I am european-American, can/will the worker document me as such without my permission?
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it would surprise me if not. =| and i wouldn't put sending them to everyone's house that said they were American past them. [tinfoil]
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That's the way to run off the census taker >:D
Works on JW's. They've seen me nekkid....
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Works on JW's. They've seen me nekkid....
And they still believe in a loving God?
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And they still believe in a loving God?
Heckifiknow....I all know is that when it happened, they certainly believed in giving my property a wide berth after that...
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And they still believe in a loving God?
Did they ever...? =|
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The questionnaire they left on the door of our remote retreat disappeared somewhere and Lady Shooter answered 2 questions on the one they left at the cabin. We received nothing they can prove we ever got. Highly inefficient enumeration at best. I suspect it was much more costly than what the results could ever justify.
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Works on JW's. They've seen me nekkid....
The Mrs. cut you off again, didn't she?....... :lol:
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The Mrs. cut you off again, didn't she?....... :lol:
Actually they interrupted a good shower once....wouldn't stop ringing the doorbell, dogs were going ape-poo-poo....I was pretty irritated and swung the door open to cuss them out. Forgot I was nekkid....
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I cheerfully answered the door a few days ago for a JW. It's not my fault they rang while I was in the living room cleaning my grenade launcher. I simply carried it with me while answering the door, as is my habit (why leave something like that out of my control while answering a door?!)
The look was priceless. The stammered "God loves you" was even more priceless. Shortest JW visit I've ever had.
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I cheerfully answered the door a few days ago for a JW. It's not my fault they rang while I was in the living room cleaning my grenade launcher. I simply carried it with me while answering the door, as is my habit (why leave something like that out of my control while answering a door?!)
The look was priceless. The stammered "God loves you" was even more priceless. Shortest JW visit I've ever had.
Seriously. Warn people before you post stuff like this. I'm cleaning coffee out of my sinuses (and off my monitor) as I try to type this.
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I actually chased down the JWs a couple weeks back.
We were headed over to the corral in the suburban with our saddles to ride, and they were parked in front of our mailboxes. Finally got them to move out of the way, and then they turned around and headed up our drive. Not knowing who the heck it was I turned around too and followed them.
Not sure if they saw us or just chickened out at our rutted driveway (good reason not to grade it :P ). They backed out next to us and stopped and tried to give us some materials which I firmly refused.
That's only the second time they've tried to come to our place. The first time about five or six years ago I met them on the front step open carrying. >:D
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You're my hero. :lol:
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You are all going to be so sorry if it turns out the JWs are right and you would have been saved if you only listened to them.
Myself, I am going to take a page from Homer Simpson, who when he thought he was about to die, blurted 'Jesus, Allah, Buddha, I love you all!'. Now that is the sort of covering all your bases that appeals to me.
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I'm sorry, but I can't help but think of this (http://www.vgcats.com/comics/?strip_id=200) every time I heard about JW's. :laugh:
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Harold Tuttle - I need a sign for my front door. Should incorporate this:
WE LOVE MISSIONARIES
picture of enormous black pot simmering over an open fire
PLEASE BRING YOUR OWN VEGETABLES
I can pay cash (if you take Zimbabwe scrip).
stay safe.
skidmark
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You are all going to be so sorry if it turns out the JWs are right and you would have been saved if you only listened to them.
You mean there is a penalty for not participating ???
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Interesting side note.
They were at the local mall here in my town in VA this last weekend. In force. Handing out balloons, forms, stickers, etc etc. There must have been 15-20 workers.
Prince William county and Woodbridge, VA, are both very heavily Hispanic.
It was almost like they were recruiting for people to support the census.
And, Obama is about to start pushing Immigration reform.
I believe in coincidence. This doesn't smell like a coincidnce to me.
I don't think it's about immigration. I think it's about gerrymandering.
Anything they can do to overcount minorities and suchlike, the better it is for them. The more they can do to encourage participation from "get your fair share of other peoples money" types, the better it is for them.
And the more they can do discourage participation from those of us who view government as not-your-friend, the better it is for them.
Obamacare passed by 4 votes in the House. Two seats switching the other way would have sunk it.
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I just got my Census form a few minutes ago and it doesn't resemble what's below at all.
You can see it online here. (http://2010.census.gov/2010census/how/interactive-form.php)
Here's the 10 Big Brother questions:
1. How many people live here?
2. Are you sure that's all the folks that live here?
3. Do you live in a trailer, house or 'partment?
4. What's your Phone number, 'cause your handwriting might suck?
5. What are the folks who live here's names?
6. Boy or Girl?
7. How old are y'all?
8. Y'all Latino?
9. What are you then?
10. Do you sometimes stay somewhere else? We don't need this twice.
It's a thick stapled book folded in half vertically. On the cover is a "start here' spot for DOB, name, phone number and number of residents.
The next couple of pages has forms for two people each up to five, with six questions per section.
1. Name
2. How is this person related to person #1.
3. Sex
4. Age
5. Hispanic, Latino or Spanish
6. Race
After those pages is a section for persons 6 to 12 that only asks name age and sex, and then there's a few pages asking about housing, and then some very invasive questions about persons 1 through 5. School history, health history, even marital and parental status.
I'm wondering why it's so different from the form on page one...and I'm wondering how much of this I actually have to fill out.
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Mabs, it sounds like you got the American Community Survey. (http://www.census.gov/acs/www/SBasics/acs_2010.htm)
It's different from the census, and has different goals. The .gov website says your response is required by law, but some research might be warrented to see exactly what form that response can take.
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Hmmm.
My FIL stands by his statement that it's not mandatory, however .gov's website is very clear that it is. As are most of the Google hits and reports of being hounded by the .gov agents.
Is this (http://www.census.gov/acs/www/Downloads/ACS-1(info)(2010)%20Stateside%20English_web.pdf) the form they're demanding you fill out? That does seem a little much.
I might roll the dice and see if they're really ready to go to court.
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I had a feeling it was something different from the Census. It does seem to be an American Community Survey.
There's a letter enclosed from a fellow named Robert M. Groves that says that I am required by law to fill this out.
"...results from this survey are used to decide where new schools, hospitals, and fire stations are needed. This information also helps communities plan for the kinds of emergency situations that might affect you and your neighbors, such as floods and other natural disasters."
My race, gender, where I was born, when I started living here, when the last time I attended any kind of school, my highest grade completed, where I lived one year ago, what sort of health insurance I have, my marital status, whether or not I've served in the military, whether I worked for pay last week or not, where it was that I worked, how many people rode to work with me, what time I left to go to work, how long it took me to get home, whether I was laid off or absent last week, whether I've been looking for work, when I last worked, whether I worked more than 50 weeks, how many weeks I worked, how many hours per week I worked, what sort of job I have, who employs me, what kind of business is it, what kind of work was I doing, what my duties were, and what my income was has nothing to do with any of those reasons he gave me in the letter.
I find these questions extremely invasive.
Oh, and "Your response to both (the Census and the Community Survey) is required by law," is in bold on the letter.
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I got one of those five years ago...chucked it into the trash.
Census drones called and came to my house multiple times...finally gave up.
No fine ever came my way.
Sawdust
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I got one of those five years ago...chucked it into the trash.
Census drones called and came to my house multiple times...finally gave up.
No fine ever came my way.
Sawdust
I really wouldn't have a problem writing down how many people live in the house but the Census already fulfills that purpose.
At least if they get pissy at me and I put down the occupants and maybe our ages I can at least say that I filled it out and returned it.
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I really wouldn't have a problem writing down how many people live in the house but the Census already fulfills that purpose.
At least if they get pissy at me and I put down the occupants and maybe our ages I can at least say that I filled it out and returned it.
You can't fill it out if you "never got it" ;)
The junk mail goes in the woodstove. =)
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Oh, heck!
Now this: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/05/06/AR2010050605771.html
Computer glitches hamper 2010 Census
By Ed O'Keefe
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, May 7, 2010
Frequent glitches in the computer system built to manage the 2010 Census could jeopardize its accuracy and drive up costs beyond its $15 billion price tag, according to a new watchdog report.
The findings by the Commerce Department's inspector general come as roughly 600,000 census takers fan out nationwide to visit about 48 million addresses where nobody mailed back a census form.
The quarterly progress report found that problems persist with the agency's paper-based operations-control system, a computer program developed to manage data collected by census takers. Several local Census Bureau offices are experiencing outages of several hours to entire days, the report said.
Those delays contributed to $1.6 million in clerical overtime costs in the first quarter, and the cost will probably rise in the next two months as census takers complete their work, the report said.
Because of computer delays, local census offices also could misplace completed paper questionnaires that are waiting to be processed.
"Questionnaires can be misplaced, for example, by storing them with questionnaires that have already been checked in," the report said. If those forms are not processed, "the persons identified in the questionnaires may not be counted."
The report reinforces concerns raised last week by the Government Accountability Office during a congressional hearing on census operations.
The Census Bureau developed the computer system in 2008 after scrapping plans to use handheld computers built for the agency. The decision left little time to develop the software, and officials have since said the system probably poses the most risk to census operations.
"As we have publicly disclosed to Congress, our oversight agencies and the press, the operational control system is not optimal, and remains a risk," Census Bureau spokesman Stephen Buckner said in an e-mail. "However we do not foresee cost overruns of the type speculated upon in this report."
Census Director Robert M. Groves has vowed to keep census operations under budget in hopes of returning funds to the Treasury. But he acknowledged potential operational issues this week in a blog post written to his 600,000 new hires.
"Nothing as large as the decennial census can be trouble-free," Groves said. "Despite the years of development, things will go wrong."
So after hounding me about both forms I returned to them instead of just picking one to send back, and threats of being invaded by GPS-equipped thugs demanding to look up my skirts to see what race I might be, they tell me that even if they had all the right answers they could not figure it out anyhow?
So why are we going through this thing again? I mean besides finding out how many congresscritters per hundred thousand serfs are needed to ignore the wishes and desires of the electorate?
stay safe.
skidmark
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I think VAS deserves his very own internetz for this one:
I mean besides finding out how many congresscritters per hundred thousand serfs are needed to ignore the wishes and desires of the electorate?