daughter-teacher "problem"

[geronimotwo]

yes, it is a unionized school district, and there are at least two teachers with tenure that should be out of a job judging on the way they treat the kids.  i'm not sure if our teacher has that mindset or not. 

[Boomhauer]

You could ask the teacher why having a bright, independent thinking kid with her own mind is a bad thing?

Because independent, intelligent children are obstacles to a proper State Education...education that can only be properly accomplished through regimented classes where kids learn only what they are taught, and the Correct things must be taught so that the child forms Correct Opinions and holds the Correct Political Views and learns about the Correct Important Issues.

After all...if children can learn on their own, it's kind of doing the teacher's job for them, eh?

[Zardozimo Oprah Bannedalas]

Another thing to consider - these tests go to some other group at the school, and that might get your kid a mandatory psych eval/some bad remarks on her record ("by this single answer, we deduce that this girl is a budding psychopath"), or get the teacher harassed for alienating the student(s). May not just be the teacher feeling her authoritay is being mocked.

[BridgeRunner]

Hm, I also read all day when I was in elementary/middle/high school.  No one suggested putting me on ritalin.  They should have.  Since I started taking Adderall about two months ago, I can do just one thing at a time for the first time in my life. 

Not suggesting your daughter has ADD, but I agree with Mrs. Millcreek that the teacher is likely trying to address a habit that may/is likely to be either impeding your daughter's education or indicating an area where the education needs to be tailored better to her needs or both. 

I was only a teacher for two years, but I asked a few parents to meet with me to sort out discipline/education problems.  As no point was I doing anything but trying to find a way to help my students learn better.

[sanglant]

just a link. sometimes, just having an alternative makes it easier to deal with the idiots.

Stossel had an interview with a student doing her schooling through this setup a few weeks back. was September 17th, i think.


good luck.

[HeroHog]

I'd like to interject something here that is related to EXACTLY this type of issue. When I was a child, I got AWFUL grades in school and had some behavior issues. Keep in mind, my father was a traveling salesman and was home weekly but out during much of the week. Also, my mother became ill when I was 11 and died of cancer when I was 13. Anyway, I LOVED to read. I would read my mothers college books before she died, Flowers for Algernon, Of Mice and Men, Fahrenheit 451, Orwell's 1984 etc. at 11 to 12 years of age understanding and discussing them with her even. At school I was all but failing but when tested, I set the bar for the whole school in reading and comprehension! What it all came down to was that I was bored out of my skull and could not understand the purpose of learning a lot of the stuff and couldn't relate or see where it would ever do me any good in life and no one could give me an explanation that made sense to me. "Because we said so" insured that I would ignore you out of spite!

Years later, I get out of the Navy disabled and the VA offers to retrain me to find a job I could do seeing as I could no longer do the work I spent my life to that point learning. When I took their tests, they determined that I was quite capable of going to and passing college in most any field I chose! The ONLY class I needed to take an 099 "catch up" class in was Algebra. After that, I was making GOOD grades in most everything I took. I was acing Algebra too but the rote memorization in Trig killed me. That is something I could never do. Memorize formulas. Killed me in Chemistry too.

The point is, I was bored and lacked understanding in school up to and through High school. After tasting "the real world" and desiring to have a better life, I went to college in my 30s where I did well because I was challenged and had purpose. When I was a kid, if they would have explained that I could use algebra to calculate top speed based on engine RPM, transmission final gear ratio, rear end ratio and tire diameter, I would have been all about it! Displacement? Bore (pie r square) x stroke x number of cylinders! WOW! Useful!  I balance equations all the time now figuring taxes, pay rates and Miles/Gallon etc. Marvelous stuff!

Kids are individuals and have different needs and personalities. Their family circumstances and environment are HUGE influences on them. To treat them like cattle and herd them through all these little boring pens ignoring that is not doing them a good service. Just what the answer is I don't know. I do like home schooling and wish more were able to do it. I would love to see smaller classes and smarter, more caring teachers but the politics and economy of that are the things of nightmares.

I am proud of you for taking the care to do all you can for your child and take a proactive part in her education. I applaud you for raising her to be a free thinking person who doesn't blindly follow without question. I hope you can help her to understand how this part of her life is so very important to the rest of her life. I hope you continue to encourage her in those good traits. I pray that you and her teacher can come to an understanding that will benefit your child and that the teacher can live with. I hope you open her eyes to the disservice she is doing to her young charges in forcing them to change her answers when those answerer, whatever they may have been, WERE her honest answers and therefore impossible to be "wrong." It makes me think of Orwell's 1984 and forcing the protagonist to give an answer that everyone knew to be false but to break him into at least seem to believe or accept it. I shudder at the thought.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

i'm another ritalin kid before they had ritalin.
and reading was my refuge and salvation. was reading at 3  took swiss family robinson to school with me in first grade had the teach accuse me of lying when she asked what i was doing with it and i told her i was reading it. she quieted down when i told her to pick a page. my teachers worked with me but it was different back then  my folks were the kind that had the teacher over for dinner often  along with her "friend" who was the school librarian and let me run amuck in the library.schools have changed but hopefuly they won't be too stupid  if they are there are ways of making em play nice with a landshark

[RoadKingLarry]

There are good teachers out there. I've know a couple. They are slightly less rare than bigfoot.
Dad was Air Force, I had the fun of experiencing 9 different school systems by the time I hit 8th grade, the record was 4 in one year. I had some interesting experiences with teachers.
Go to the meeting with an open mind but accept the possibility that while your baby is capable of misbehaving the teacher is too.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

as another airforce brat i hear ya  how it affected me was one reason dad got out.   on the plus side it made me learn to adapt 

[vaskidmark]

Given what Miss Geronimotwo is reading, I revise my comments marginally.

It is outright disrespectful because it is not related to classwork/schooling in general.  She is probably reading because she is bored, but it is imperative to determione that all her classwork has been completed (including paying attention to the teacher) before she buries her nose in a book about dragons.

That being said, it does sound as if she needs/wants to be challenged and have her mind stimulated.  From personal experience both being assigned and assigning additional work I can tell you doing so has a low chance of achieving the goal just noted.

My comment about suing for the gifted end of special education may have sounded harsh, and it is if you are just beginning the dialogue, but if your system claims it does not have such a program mentioning the possibility of either complaints to the state-level offices or a lawsuit might just jar their memory of where they put the program.

As a person who has short-term memory problems I often bring a recording device to meetings where it might otherwise seem adversarial.  I also tell them that I will be glad to send them a copy of the recording after I get home and transfer it to a computer file.  I explain the disability and when necessary tell them I will be glad to reschedule the meeting at a later date after submitting a formal request for ADA accommodation if they desire to go that route.

stay safe.

[roo_ster]

How would you feel if you were the teacher and a parent came bopping into the room and started recording the meeting?

If they didn't record, I would record.  Heck, I'd likely record on general principle and to avoid accusations in the future.  Same thing for classroom time.

A key skill in teaching is called 'classroom management', in which the teacher tries to herd the cats and keep them on track.  If one child starts to disrupt the learning environment, other kids pick up on that and soon you have chaos.  The kids who want to learn cannot because the classroom has been disrupted.

If this ill serves a particular (perhaps) bright child, are we to consider it a discipline problem if the child tries something, anything to get value out of the time spent pent up with a score of mediocrities and a teacher pitching their materials at that level?

I second the recommendation on asking about the gifted program...

I did the reading in class thing up through my senior year of high school...

So, with my own experience heavily coloring my opinion, I assume your daughter either has a bad teacher, or a teacher who has to teach to the center of the class, which is well below her personal level. If they won't get her into the gifted program, follow C&SD's advice and see if you can at least get her moved into another class.  People don't like admitting that there are horrible, untalented teachers out there, but of course there are, same as in any other profession. Don't let your daughter waste a year of her education with one if you can help it.

If your kid is doing well and reading other material, likely she is bored out of her gourd.

I read voraciously from 7th grade onward through senior year in HS(1).  About the only classes that I didn't read non-class material in were calculus, physics, and chemistry.  Most everything else was a breeze.  I'd complete my work or whatever and whip out my current reading material.

I suspect that "a teacher who has to teach to the center of the class, which is well below her personal level. " may be the crux of the problem.  There may very well be next to nothing the teacher is allowed or is willing to do to keep your child interested.  The teacher has a curriculum, a class with a median ability level, and cranks it out.  Your daughter is sand in her gears.

the book was from the "how to train a dragon" series.  the teacher also gives time for free reading in the classroom,  so i am inclined to go along with this being disrespectful.  still, my daughter is getting above 95% average on all of the work we are seeing.   i am afraid that she is bored.  unfortunatly, i don't believe that we have a "gifted" program in this school.

i would hope that these professionals are above picking on my daughter as a grudge match, but who can say.  we will know more later.

Sounds like your daughter is being ill-served by the education provided by that teacher/district and that my suspicion was correct.  

Perhaps you could ask for a different teacher with a more advanced curriculum?  Maybe advance a grade?  

I'd bet that if you keep her in that situation she'll waste 9/10 of her school hours instead of the 3/4 usually wasted in public education settings.  She'll see schooling as a waste of time and make friends with mediocrities.  Maybe she'll make friends with real troublemakers.

Don't underestimate the pettiness of "education professionals" in the gov't school system.  I had some terrific, some atrocious, and mostly middling instructors in the public school system.

Go to the meeting with an open mind but accept the possibility that while your baby is capable of misbehaving the teacher is too.

This.  







(1)  My 7th grade history teacher and my mom (as related to me by my mom)

<The usual update as to my progress, etc.>

And then...

History Teacher: You do know your son reads books in my class?
Mom:  I'm sure he does.  I saw the textbook.
HT: No, I mean he reads books having nothing to do with the subject.
Mom: Huh?
HT:  In some cases, it might be a problem.  
Mom: Is it a problem?
HT: No, since roo_ster does well on exams, completes his homework and assignments, and participates in class discussions--he'll look up from his book, raise his hand, answer or comment, and then go back to reading--I haven't mentioned it until now.  I don't consider it a discipline problem.
Mom:  What should we do about it?
HT: Nothing.  He's already in my advanced seventh grade history class and learning everything I can teach him in the classroom.  I've noticed his book titles are both fiction and non-fiction.  He seems to have taken his education in hand.

Moral to the story: Not all public school teachers are worthless sacks.

[Hawkmoon]

Explain to the teacher that your daughter requires intellectual stimulation or she gets bored easily, which is why she reads during class. (Probably true -- I spent a lot of classroom time drawing cartoons, didn't listen to lectures, and still made National Honor Society).

Also explain to the teacher that you are raising your children to on the basis of mutual respect, and that refusing to allow an honest answer to a dumb question does not show respect for the student, does not respect the assignment, and does not promote mutual respect between teacher and student.

What happens after that will depend on the teacher's reaction, but be sure to have that recorder running. I would NOT tell her you are recording, but that's just me.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Not all public school teachers are worthless sacks.




most true! and the reverse is true as well.theres a school in montgomery county md called barrie day school.  teachers kids go free or greatly reduced yet the teachers sent their kids to public school.  the campus was gorgeous  peacocks walking around a lil pond with canoes for trh kids in the center.  ballet  piano lessons etc.  for the yuppie kid with everything.  the only career those kids were suited for on graduation was living in a commune.  big bucks  big wheel parents   happy but undereducated kids

[MillCreek]

How interesting are the recommendations for the OP to do surreptitious and probably illegal audio recording without the knowledge and consent of all parties.  As someone who is an actual parent, unlike many of the posters in this thread, I would be more concerned about what that says about me as a role model to my child than anything else.  If you are not a parent, you may not understand this.

[Vodka7]

How interesting are the recommendations for the OP to do surreptitious and probably illegal audio recording without the knowledge and consent of all parties.  As someone who is an actual parent, unlike many of the posters in this thread, I would be more concerned about what that says about me as a role model to my child than anything else.  If you are not a parent, you may not understand this.

Probably illegal is a stretch. Most states have allow recording of conversations as long as one party consents:

http://www.rcfp.org/taping/quick.html

As for what's moral, I'd never preach how to raise a child to someone else.  Personally, I'd want my child to know you can't always trust others to have your best interests at heart, and that adults sometimes lie.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

i know from experience that they learn that earlier enough    want me not to be the one that teaches her.  kids are funny they take that trust real serious with mom and dad.  and thats not speculative its based on hands on

[taurusowner]

I went to a private school middle school and then back to public schools for high school.  My first day of class as a freshman, I had my math teacher give us a handout about Numerology and how it could tell you about your personality and your future.  The assignment was to use this Numerology guide to make a profile about yourself and possible futures.

Instead I wrote a paper about how Numerology was thinly-veiled new age religious tripe masquerading as junk science, and its inclusion in a mathematics curriculum was inappropriate.

Yeah, I got a parent-teacher conference on my first day.  I ended up just getting moved to a new math class.  The new teacher heard what I did and thought it was hilarious.  Him and I got along great and my somewhat less abysmal government education proceeded without further incident.

[Iain]

A few thoughts.

We all think we're special. We all think our kids are special. We all think we know best, both as kids and as adults. Two memories from my schooling remind me that at times others know best.

At primary school I'd avoid math, hated it. My dad worked hard on it with me, my head teacher worked hard on it with me, but I hated it and wouldn't do more than enough to appease them. I'm still bad at math, and perhaps that's just the way I think, but even now 20 years later at times I'll suddenly make very basic connections about math. I was capable enough to do better, but wasn't interested. I'd decided that math wasn't relevant to me, and I notice from comments above that others have made similar statements about other subjects.

During my A levels (16-18) I chose to do chemistry in an honest effort to stretch myself, but I struggled with maintaining interest, and quickly took to doing history work during chemistry lessons when I could get away with it. End of first year exams, in which I got an E, my chem teacher pulled me aside, told me that she was predicting me an A for university applications and I could do it if I worked at it. I did work at it, and I did get an A.

The other thought I have is that I notice how few responses there have been to MillCreek's wife's suggestions.

[vaskidmark]

A few thoughts.
(snip_
The other thought I have is that I notice how few responses there have been to MillCreek's wife's suggestions.

It may be rather telling that the thoughts and experiences of the majority do not agree with her.  It seems her classroom and her school administration may be closer to the ideal than what most others have dealt with/experienced.

stay safe.

[MillCreek]

As for what's moral, I'd never preach how to raise a child to someone else.  Personally, I'd want my child to know you can't always trust others to have your best interests at heart, and that adults sometimes lie.

So you feel comfortable in teaching your child that the ends justify the means? 

[MillCreek]

It may be rather telling that the thoughts and experiences of the majority do not agree with her.  It seems her classroom and her school administration may be closer to the ideal than what most others have dealt with/experienced.

stay safe.

Or what is more likely is that few people here have, or have had, elementary-age school children and/or no actual experience or training in education.  BW is a notable exception to this as having both. 

Recounting your crappy experience in high school or with one poor teacher by the Rugged Individualists here is quite, quite different from being a parent with a child in elementary school and being responsible for that child.  Until you do it yourself, it is all theoretical for you. 

Having attended a lot of school and school Board meetings over the decades, I have always thought it odd that so many people think they are qualified to have an expert opinion on education solely by virtue of having had a couple of kids.  I own a car, but this does not make me an expert in automotive engineering. 

But as the rich history of APS and life shows, having actual experience or knowledge of a subject is no bar to expressing an opinion! 

[HankB]

. . . Recounting your crappy experience in high school or with one poor teacher by the Rugged Individualists here is quite, quite different from being a parent with a child in elementary school and being responsible for that child.  Until you do it yourself, it is all theoretical for you. . . .

I showed your original post to my mother, who had plenty of experience raising a child who could be a real handful at times.   

She thought reading an unrelated book - fiction, no less - during the lecture was inappropriate, and merited correction.

She also thought that telling the child that they're not allowed to write that they dislike something is the sort of thing that, once verified, ought to get the teacher read the riot act.

[geronimotwo]

i talked with my daughter about her classroom/teacher situation, and asked her how she felt it was going this year.  she indicated that her teacher was unfair.  when asked about specifics she told me about the "june box".   our teacher has a box into which she puts the things she feels are disrupting her class (and keeps them there until june).  in addition to ipods and psp's, i am told things like paper, books, and pencils are taken and put into the box as well.  i guess my daughters reading has not been as big an issue as some other things in her class, as her books have not been confiscated, yet.  i am looking forward to speaking further with the teacher.  

my daughter is complaining of having an upset stomach again this morning.  i hate to have her not like school.  at the end of the year we are given a teacher request form.  we always spend a lot of time researching and asking questions about the next grade teachers to try to get the best match, but this year we had slim pickings, and we didn't get the one teacher that we picked.  (makes me wonder, again, about the conflict we had with the principal.)

another part of our problem could be how we did home school her for half a year, in first grade, while we took our sailboat on the intracoastal waterway.  she loved finding the sealife along the way.  we would take pictures and try to identify the different creatures and their habitats when we would get to the next library.  makes me think we need to get back on the boat.  if it weren't for that pesky thing called "work".

She also thought that telling the child that they're not allowed to write that they dislike something is the sort of thing that, once verified, ought to get the teacher read the riot act.

the teacher was the one who told me about having my daughter change the answer.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

the teacher was the one who told me about having my daughter change the answer.


did she give a reason/goal for why?

[geronimotwo]

the teacher was the one who told me about having my daughter change the answer.


did she give a reason/goal for why?

not yet,  although, she did feel that her "i don't like people telling me what to do" answer was directed towards her.