Author Topic: daughter-teacher "problem"  (Read 28638 times)

taurusowner

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Re: daughter-teacher "problem"
« Reply #50 on: October 04, 2010, 10:01:03 AM »
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when asked about specifics she told me about the "june box".   our teacher has a box into which she puts the things she feels are disrupting her class (and keeps them there until june).  in addition to ipods and psp's, i am told things like paper, books, and pencils are taken and put into the box as well.

Maybe it's just because I'm young/unmarried/no kids, but I've always had a problem with teachers who take property and don't give it back.  I'm assuming by "june box" she means she won't release the property until the school year ends?  If I was a parent, I would come to the school and insist my property be turned over to me.  I'm all for discipline, but I don't stand for theft.

MillCreek

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Re: daughter-teacher "problem"
« Reply #51 on: October 04, 2010, 11:49:12 AM »
Maybe it's just because I'm young/unmarried/no kids, but I've always had a problem with teachers who take property and don't give it back.  I'm assuming by "june box" she means she won't release the property until the school year ends?  If I was a parent, I would come to the school and insist my property be turned over to me.  I'm all for discipline, but I don't stand for theft.

I do know that confiscation of items causing disruption in the classroom is pretty common these days.  I know that the typical teacher would absolutely love it if a parent came in to discuss this and to get the stuff back.  The teacher could tell you how this makes a problem for the child and the whole class when the academic environment is disrupted, and she looks to you as the responsible parent to make sure that your child is not bringing these items to school.  The teacher generally dislikes having to be put in the enforcement role, and I know that at many schools, a letter/handout is distributed at the beginning of the year listing items that should be kept at home rather than brought to school.  Ms. MillCreek wonders exactly what an elementary school child needs a cell phone at school for.  The parents say it is so that they can contact the child in an emergency, but Ms. MillCreek is old enough that she remembers that parents could just call the school and get ahold of their child or leave a message for the child. 

For example, right now at Ms. MillCreek's elementary school, they are having problems with an item called Silly Bandz.  Which I had never heard of before last week.  They are a decorative rubber band that you wear around your wrist.  Apparently the kids are shooting them off around the classroom at each other, are stealing them from each other, getting into fights over who can wear the most at one time and trading lunches for them.  Several local schools in the Seattle area have banned them from the schools, are confiscating them if they are brought to the school, and have sent home handouts to the parents about them.  I told Ms. MillCreek to say 'you'll put your eye out, kid', but she thought no one would get the reference.
_____________
Regards,
MillCreek
Snohomish County, WA  USA


Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
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lupinus

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Re: daughter-teacher "problem"
« Reply #52 on: October 04, 2010, 02:32:10 PM »
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I told Ms. MillCreek to say 'you'll put your eye out, kid', but she thought no one would get the reference.
Such sad times we live in  =(
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KD5NRH

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Re: daughter-teacher "problem"
« Reply #53 on: October 04, 2010, 02:36:53 PM »
I think the advice to bring a recorder is bad advice.  First, is it legal? Second, is it a good idea?  Third, do you have any reason at all not to trust this person?  How would you feel if you were the teacher and a parent came bopping into the room and started recording the meeting?

Honest people have nothing to fear from other's recordings of their interactions. 

roo_ster

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Re: daughter-teacher "problem"
« Reply #54 on: October 04, 2010, 02:38:57 PM »
How interesting are the recommendations for the OP to do surreptitious and probably illegal audio recording without the knowledge and consent of all parties.  As someone who is an actual parent, unlike many of the posters in this thread, I would be more concerned about what that says about me as a role model to my child than anything else.  If you are not a parent, you may not understand this.

"Keeping a wary eye on agents of the government" is useful behavior to model.

Such a recording is illegal in very few states.

Honest people have nothing to fear from other's recordings of their interactions. 

My thoughts, exactly and why I'd welcome their presence.


It may be rather telling that the thoughts and experiences of the majority do not agree with her.  It seems her classroom and her school administration may be closer to the ideal than what most others have dealt with/experienced.

Or what is more likely is that few people here have, or have had, elementary-age school children and/or no actual experience or training in education.  BW is a notable exception to this as having both. 

Recounting your crappy experience in high school or with one poor teacher by the Rugged Individualists here is quite, quite different from being a parent with a child in elementary school and being responsible for that child.  Until you do it yourself, it is all theoretical for you. 

Having attended a lot of school and school Board meetings over the decades, I have always thought it odd that so many people think they are qualified to have an expert opinion on education solely by virtue of having had a couple of kids.  I own a car, but this does not make me an expert in automotive engineering. 

But as the rich history of APS and life shows, having actual experience or knowledge of a subject is no bar to expressing an opinion! 

Your assumptions are incorrect.

1. I was a student in two different private religious elementary schools.

2. I was a student in a public elementary school, two public middle/Jr HSs, and two public high schools.  Quite a contrast to the aforementioned private religious schools.

3. I took several Ed Dept courses in college, intending to double-major in Physics & Education, but was dismayed by the content (lack thereof), instructors, and the quality of the Ed majors.  I decided not to throw good money after bad and double-majored in Physics & History instead.

4. I have two children, one currently in kindergarten.

5. I have worked with elementary-aged boys as a leader in Cub Scouts and have trained them up on various skills. (Amazing how well my experience training fresh out of HS recruits translated over.)

6. I am on the board of trustees for the private religious school my children attend.

As an aside, we are good friends with several families, one or both of whose parents work in the public schools (classroom teachers, music teacher, vice principal) .  NONE of them send their own kids to public schools and keep us posted on the current state of public school affairs in those particular districts (FTW, Irving, Dallas, Plano).

I would suggest that opinions contrary to yours are not necessarily based on ignorance.

Kids have been kids for millenia.  It does not require a Ed Dept indoctrination to figure out what has worked for that millenia. I'd suspect that many of those you despise at board meetings have a firmer grasp than union apparatchiks and entry-level policritters.  Especially with regard to what is best for their particular children.
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roo_ster

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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: daughter-teacher "problem"
« Reply #55 on: October 04, 2010, 03:30:35 PM »
not yet,  although, she did feel that her "i don't like people telling me what to do" answer was directed towards her. 


i like your kid!

teacher might not be totally dense
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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dm1333

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Re: daughter-teacher "problem"
« Reply #56 on: October 04, 2010, 04:18:18 PM »
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Honest people have nothing to fear from other's recordings of their interactions.  
 

No, they don't.  But....  Have you ever had somebody start recording a conversation that you were having with them?  I have.  It didn't change what I said or did but it certainly changed my perception of that person.  Especially considering that this was the first time we had met or spoken.  It also made me think that they were expecting things to get adversarial down the line.
 
 
 
edited:for spelling
« Last Edit: October 04, 2010, 04:22:10 PM by dm1333 »

MillCreek

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Re: daughter-teacher "problem"
« Reply #57 on: October 04, 2010, 04:19:32 PM »
"Keeping a wary eye on agents of the government" is useful behavior to model.

I'd suspect that many of those you despise at board meetings have a firmer grasp than union apparatchiks and entry-level policritters.

Wow, Mrs. Smith, the 55 year old elementary school teacher as an agent of the government, union appratchik and policritter.  I see.

I bet the water meter reader bears watching, too.   [tinfoil]

Oh, and rooster?  Ms. MillCreek taught for several years in private schools.  She says that since they have the option of kicking out kids or parents who are behavior problems, kids who speak languages other than English, often do not serve special ed or emotionally disturbed children and have lower student-to-teacher ratios, they sometimes get better student results than many public schools who don't have these advantages.  I wonder how public schools would compare if they had these same advantages.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2010, 04:30:59 PM by MillCreek »
_____________
Regards,
MillCreek
Snohomish County, WA  USA


Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
You are one lousy risk manager.

MillCreek

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Re: daughter-teacher "problem"
« Reply #58 on: October 04, 2010, 04:21:43 PM »
Honest people have nothing to fear from other's recordings of their interactions. 

I am sure then, that you won't mind if we film you for every second of time you are outside of your house.  Surely you have no expectation of privacy or are concerned about being filmed, are you?
_____________
Regards,
MillCreek
Snohomish County, WA  USA


Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
You are one lousy risk manager.

HankB

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Re: daughter-teacher "problem"
« Reply #59 on: October 04, 2010, 04:28:57 PM »
Wow, Mrs. Smith, the 55 year old elementary school teacher as an agent of the government, union appratchik and policritter.  I see.

I bet the water meter reader bears watching, too.   [tinfoil]
One is poisoning kids' minds in a government school . . . the other is poisoning their bodies with fluoride in their water . . . hmmmm . . .  :laugh:

I am sure then, that you won't mind if we film you for every second of time you are outside of your house.  Surely you have no expectation of privacy or are concerned about being filmed, are you?
There's an awful lot of that going on already, with traffic cameras, various and sundry security cameras, ATM cameras, police dash cameras . . . I recently saw a news report that the "average" person is photographed 100 times a day.

As a matter of interest,  you know that your webcam is turned off, if your laptop has one?

In any case, when a teacher (public employee) is meeting in a public building with a member of the public, there's no reasonable expectation of privacy.
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MicroBalrog

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Re: daughter-teacher "problem"
« Reply #60 on: October 04, 2010, 05:45:29 PM »
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Wow, Mrs. Smith, the 55 year old elementary school teacher as an agent of the government, union appratchik and policritter.  I see.

The whole purpose of even having public schooling is to socialize children in whatever the dominant values of the government are.
As such it bears watching.
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"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

MillCreek

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Re: daughter-teacher "problem"
« Reply #61 on: October 04, 2010, 05:56:17 PM »
The whole purpose of even having public schooling is to socialize children in whatever the dominant values of the government are.
As such it bears watching.

In case I missed it, exactly what are those dominant values, then?
_____________
Regards,
MillCreek
Snohomish County, WA  USA


Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
You are one lousy risk manager.

vaskidmark

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Re: daughter-teacher "problem"
« Reply #62 on: October 04, 2010, 06:45:57 PM »
I went to college to get the training necessary to teach.  I took the tests to be approved by the state to teach - after having spent three semesters in ever-increasing student teaching settings.  I taught high school for a number of years before having to leave due to a reduction in force situation.

I worked for over a decade in the state welfare system getting troubled youth into special education settings that they should have been in years ago.

I worked as a private advocate for parents with problems with the school system, ranging from conflicts over special education placement (not placed, inappropriately placed, not removed).

I served as a member of the curriculum development team for both middle and high school English and History curricula for two suburban school systems - once as a teacher in one system and once as a consultant hired by the other system.

I have served as a mentor in a mid-sized city with a significant we-don't-meet-state-standards-for-accredidation-and most-of-our-kids-are-already-left-behind status.

I have absolutely no information about what's going on with geronimotwo's daughter, her teacher, and her school system except what has been mentioned here - and take everything said by everyone as being second-hand at best with regard to veracity, accuracy, and emotional/political/philosophical filters being operative.

Now that my bona fides have been laid out, I'm going to go back to two issues only:

1) regardless of how innocuous they might seem, the administration of any personality assessment instrument by a person unlicensed or specifically trained in the administration and interpretation of such in an educational setting is a violation of professional ethics if not school system policy and/or state law regarding the professional practice of teaching and psychology.  Geronimotwo's profile does not list his state of residence so I cannot look it up and give the exact citations for my assertions but I am confident that they are accurate.

That being the case, I am leery of the teacher to begin with.  Some other things that have been mentioned (the "June box" especially) further raise my level of concern.  The discussion of how other classroom issues are handled further trouble me.

2) based on the reports from Miss Geronimotwo the teacher already has an adversarial relationship with the child.  Geronomotwo reports that there may also be an adversarial relationship between the school and parents.  There is reason to ensure that all conversations with the teacher are memorialized.  An explanation of the reasons (including the for-me correct but for geronimotwo possibly tongue in cheek reason of "short-term memory deficit") given up front, along with a recording of the teacher's assent, is not surrepitous.  Anybody, in my very biased opinion, who did not follow the up-front notice, even in a one-party consent state, would be considered behaving in a less than ethical manner with the teacher.  I must have missed where someone else recommended recording on the sly.

Some of what geronimotwo has revealed after I first suggested recording all contacts merely strengthens my recommendation.

Throughout my adult and professional life I have studied, both informally and as a course of graduate and post-graduate study, the operation and functioning of organizations and the people who make up organizations.  School systems were a major focus of my studies.  As most folks could tell you based on personal, anecdotal experiences, they are not designed and operated to foster the education of children on either side of the middle three standard deviations of the bell curve.

I support folks working with the classroom teacher and the school system.  As a matter of fact, if asked for an opinion or to consult in a situation, I insist on the parents first dealing wth the classroom teacher and seeking a resolution. At times there are issues in conflict between the values and goals of the teacher and the parents.  From what has been revealed this appears to be such a situation.

My impression is that geronimotwo is reluctant to flex very much with regard to some of his values and goals for his daughter.

stay safe.
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dm1333

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Re: daughter-teacher "problem"
« Reply #63 on: October 04, 2010, 06:49:47 PM »
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The whole purpose of even having public schooling is to socialize children in whatever the dominant values of the government are.
As such it bears watching

I'm going to have to disagree with this, too.  It may seem like that is what public schools were designed to do, but the real purpose is a lot less sinister.   There are two general goals.  Produce educated people who can go into the workforce and to produce good citizens.  Of course everybody is now going to say that the public school system assimilated me.

The National Governors Association has quite a lot to say about the purpose of our public schools, how they should be run and what we are looking for as the product of our schools.  I included the following link in case anybody was interested.


http://corestandards.org/the-standards

MicroBalrog

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Re: daughter-teacher "problem"
« Reply #64 on: October 04, 2010, 07:01:08 PM »
The two are not mutually exclusive.

I wrote a large research assignment once on the development of public schooling in Europe. Let's just say both goals were very openly on the minds of the founders of this concept. Of course "producing a good citizen" and "socializing a person according to the values of society" are basically the same.
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vaskidmark

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Re: daughter-teacher "problem"
« Reply #65 on: October 04, 2010, 07:04:36 PM »
BTDT.

Ask any HR weenie just how prepared kids coming out of high school are ready to go into the workforce as entry-level workers.  I'm not talking about needing to learn the differnce between bulding a Mickey D burger and a Burger King burger.  I'm referring to knowing that they are expected to show up on time - not just to flip burgers but wherever they are hired.  Or that even when they are bored or tired they can only get a break at the scheduled times.

How do you explain all the polls and video interviews that show so many young adults not knowing that our country is a republic and not a democracy, or worse not being able to descrive either form of government?

The last time I saw an educational system that had pretty much figured out how to do what you describe was in England during the 1950's - somewhere around our 6th grade (age 11) kids were tracked either into vocational/clerical training or separated from the drodd and prepped for university to become lawyers, accountants and government bureaucrats.

stay safe.
If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege.

Hey you kids!! Get off my lawn!!!

They keep making this eternal vigilance thing harder and harder.  Protecting the 2nd amendment is like playing PACMAN - there's no pause button so you can go to the bathroom.

sanglant

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just hypothetical questions
« Reply #66 on: October 04, 2010, 07:07:54 PM »
when we have la raza members teaching, do you really think the system is above reproach? =(
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoTV9l77_UA.

oh and, why was home economics removed? ???

MicroBalrog

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Re: daughter-teacher "problem"
« Reply #67 on: October 04, 2010, 07:15:39 PM »
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I'm referring to knowing that they are expected to show up on time - not just to flip burgers but wherever they are hired.

This has not really been the case at any of the jobs I held through the last seven years. Being 15-20 minutes late has usually been acceptable everywhere.

But the problem is, the education system has also been corrupted - for decades - by several influences rendering it incapable of performing even its ostensible goals. I refer, of course, to no-wrong-answer mushy-mindedness as well as the influence of public employee unions and politicians seeking to water down standards to increase pass rates.

Of course, that all said, a lot of these videos/polls are skewed by panic-mongerers.
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Re: daughter-teacher "problem"
« Reply #68 on: October 04, 2010, 07:18:53 PM »
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How do you explain all the polls and video interviews that show so many young adults not knowing that our country is a republic and not a democracy, or worse not being able to descrive either form of government?

Useful knowledge, history, information, and skills are simply unacceptable subjects to teach these days, apparently. And even if they were taught, the lack of discipline in schools means learning would be obstructed anyway.

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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: daughter-teacher "problem"
« Reply #69 on: October 04, 2010, 07:25:05 PM »
I'm referring to knowing that they are expected to show up on time - not just to flip burgers but wherever they are hired.

This has not really been the case at any of the jobs I held through the last seven years. Being 15-20 minutes late has usually been acceptable everywhere.


you're no mabs but didn't you mention some employment difficulties?
we dock folks an hour if they are 20 mins late   be late 3 times?  don't worry it stops being a problem.

wanna know what symbolizes todays young workers for me? a kid late for work a few mins repeatedly  but he always shows up with a cuop of starbucks   he know hes late but stops for coffee.  its a regular occurence. especially union jobs
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

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That's just about enough of that.
« Reply #70 on: October 04, 2010, 07:36:14 PM »
Maybe Young Ms.Geronimotwo is just a twiddler, a dreamer, a silly heart?
Time to call in her crazy uncle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIR8QtMv1W4



7-11 was a part time job.

lupinus

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Re: daughter-teacher "problem"
« Reply #71 on: October 04, 2010, 07:46:27 PM »
you're no mabs but didn't you mention some employment difficulties?
we dock folks an hour if they are 20 mins late   be late 3 times?  don't worry it stops being a problem.

wanna know what symbolizes todays young workers for me? a kid late for work a few mins repeatedly  but he always shows up with a cuop of starbucks   he know hes late but stops for coffee.  its a regular occurence. especially union jobs

For me it's "But I clocked in on time!"

Forgetting that they spent 30 minutes after that putting stuff in their locker locker, gabbing with their buddies, and picking lint out of their ass before moseying over to their work area and thinking about doing their job. Start time means you start working at that time, not run through the door swipe your badge and then take your time getting yourself in order.

Other is bitching about how they just don't have time to do all this work. Some of these people, when you add the 10 minutes here and there together, burn a good hour of work time talking bitching or moaning. Ironically it's almost always about not having time to finish their job and they are worked to hard.
That is all. *expletive deleted*ck you all, eat *expletive deleted*it, and die in a fire. I have considered writing here a long parting section dedicated to each poster, but I have decided, at length, against it. *expletive deleted*ck you all and Hail Satan.

dm1333

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Re: daughter-teacher "problem"
« Reply #72 on: October 04, 2010, 07:54:10 PM »
Quote
Ask any HR weenie just how prepared kids coming out of high school are ready to go into the workforce as entry-level workers.  I'm not talking about needing to learn the differnce between bulding a Mickey D burger and a Burger King burger. I'm referring to knowing that they are expected to show up on time - not just to flip burgers but wherever they are hired.  Or that even when they are bored or tired they can only get a break at the scheduled times.

I'd lay more of that blame on the people who raised the kid than on the school.

Quote
when we have la raza members teaching, do you really think the system is above reproach?


The system is NOT above reproach.  The classroom shouldn't be your personal soap box and schools shouldn't be used to advance political agendas. 

Quote
I wrote a large research assignment once on the development of public schooling in Europe. Let's just say both goals were very openly on the minds of the founders of this concept. Of course "producing a good citizen" and "socializing a person according to the values of society" are basically the same.

I don't see "good citizen" and  "socialized" as being the same thing.  I think I see where you are going with this, but do you see my point? 

BridgeRunner

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Re: daughter-teacher "problem"
« Reply #73 on: October 04, 2010, 07:57:12 PM »
Wrt chronic lateness, I think there are some cultural disparities in operation.

dm1333

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Re: daughter-teacher "problem"
« Reply #74 on: October 04, 2010, 08:02:36 PM »
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For me it's "But I clocked in on time!"

Forgetting that they spent 30 minutes after that putting stuff in their locker locker, gabbing with their buddies, and picking lint out of their ass before moseying over to their work area and thinking about doing their job. Start time means you start working at that time, not run through the door swipe your badge and then take your time getting yourself in order.

Other is bitching about how they just don't have time to do all this work. Some of these people, when you add the 10 minutes here and there together, burn a good hour of work time talking bitching or moaning. Ironically it's almost always about not having time to finish their job and they are worked to hard.
 

Off topic, but I have to plug my service here.  Hire somebody who just got out of the CG if you can.  Especially if they were at a small boat station for a while.  My crew shows up on time, gets to boat checks right off the bat, works late when needed and generally walk around with a smile on their faces for most of the day.  Even when they do b*tch about stuff it is pretty good natured.  We have 27 people attached to the station right now and I wouldn't hesitate to recommend any of them for a job on the outside.