Cops and ticketing quotas

[Jocassee]

Is this what is adding to the rise of what I call "predatory" law enforcement?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=zGeZiWOeGIc

Link is to a Reason TV program about a cop who was fired for refusing to meet quotas in Auburn AL

comes with a Radley Balko alert

Keep the cop bashing on the DL (mods...do as you see fit)

I am not posting this just because of what happened to me. I understand the thin blue line. But revenue generation and predatory law enforcement pisses me off.

Is a possible solution this maybe taking questionable tickets to jury trial (and hopefully a sympathetic jury)?

[AZRedhawk44]

Is a possible solution this maybe taking questionable tickets to jury trial (and hopefully a sympathetic jury)?

I'm not channeling CSD here or anything, but I think the best solution is to drive the speed limit.  But that revolves around my whole notion of starving Leviathan.

It'd be VERY interesting (in a chinese sense) to see what law changes come down the way, if traffic enforcement revenues dropped because people drove more conservatively.  Because they (of "they-them-those" fame) would do anything to preserve that revenue, even if they start giving 10 year olds tickets for riding the playground slide backwards.

[Nick1911]

Is a possible solution this maybe taking questionable tickets to jury trial (and hopefully a sympathetic jury)?

Can you take a traffic citation to a jury trial?  It was my understanding that you can't do that most places for a civil infraction.

[Jocassee]

Can you take a traffic citation to a jury trial?  It was my understanding that you can't do that most places for a civil infraction.

You can in SC. I don't know if it counts as a civil or criminal infraction.

[Jocassee]

I'm not channeling CSD here or anything, but I think the best solution is to drive the speed limit.  But that revolves around my whole notion of starving Leviathan.

You are no fun at all sir

[Balog]

If enough people don't break the law the change the law so you do.

But really, most traffic laws are written so broadly that cops can pull anyone over for anything at any time wioth no more than the ususal amount of perjury.

[brimic]

Is this what is adding to the rise of what I call "predatory" law enforcement?

A cop from my village was fired about a decade ago for not meeting quotas showing up late for work twice.
He publicly stated that "his purpose as a police officer is to patrol neighborhoods, not to hand out tickets on the freeway at the edge of town."

On the other end of the spectrum, there was another cop in my village who got special training from the DOT for inspecting semi trucks. He pulled over every semi truck that came through our village, spent 1/2 hour inspecting the rigs for violations (there is going to be some sort of violation on just about every truck out there, whether its brake linings 0.010" too thin or low wiper washer fluid, a loose dirt clod on a lowboy carrying an excavator, etc), writing hundreds-sometimes thousands of dollars in fines for each operator, and disrupting commerce in general (except of course the commerce that involved towing/repairing rigs).  The people of our village got sick of it pretty quick when contractors or delivery trucks would add a large 'police' surcharge to all deliveries to or work being done in our village.

[HankB]

Can you take a traffic citation to a jury trial?  It was my understanding that you can't do that most places for a civil infraction.

In TX, I've served as a juror a couple of times in traffic court - each time, it was made clear that these traffic offenses were considered criminal infractions, and the persons had a constitutional right to a trial by jury.

[brimic]

In TX, I've served as a juror a couple of times in traffic court - each time, it was made clear that these traffic offenses were considered criminal infractions, and the persons had a constitutional right to a trial by jury.

I think its the same here...
The last time my wife got a speeding ticket, she went to her court date instead of just paying the fine.
They gave her three options:
1. Pay the fine as-is, and get a few points on her license.
2. Plea bargain to a broken speedometer, pay a fine that was $50 or so higher but no points on her license.
3. Trial at a later date.

They make the fines cheap enough that no sane person unless independently wealthy, retired with a lot of free time, or is trying to make a point is going to go to trial.

It works almost the same way for parking tickets- at least in Milwaukee- a private contractor with incentives to write as many tickets as possible, writes tickets even when a person is parked legally. The person can pay it or appeal it, but appealing it is pointless, they are never overturned. Its simply a shakedown of people who park their cars on the streets.

[Jocassee]

I am taking an issue to court whenever i get a date. Speeding. I'll let you know how it turns out.

[AZRedhawk44]

I am taking an issue to court whenever i get a date. Speeding. I'll let you know how it turns out.

Same one I know about, or another one?

[Jocassee]

Same one I know about, or another one?

Same one. Still waiting on a court date

[roo_ster]

If enough people don't break the law the change the law so you do.

But really, most traffic laws are written so broadly that cops can pull anyone over for anything at any time wioth no more than the ususal amount of perjury.

Both of these.

Traffic tickets are nothing more than an irregularly levied roadway use tax.

[Jocassee]

Traffic tickets are nothing more than an irregularly levied roadway use tax.

Another one of my pet peeves--using a high-usage yet perfectly safe roadway as a revenue generation device.

If the city wants to make money off their road--fine. But don't send gun thugs out to do it.

[charby]

Another one of my pet peeves--using a high-usage yet perfectly safe roadway as a revenue generation device.

If the city wants to make money off their road--fine. But don't send gun thugs out to do it.

Drive the speed limit and obey all traffic laws, no reason to get a ticket then. Argue otherwise, you are a law breaking criminal. 
 

[Balog]

Drive the speed limit and obey all traffic laws, no reason to get a ticket then. Argue otherwise, you are a law breaking criminal. 
 

It's virtually impossible to obey all traffic laws, if someone is looking for a reason to pull you over.

[charby]

It's virtually impossible to obey all traffic laws, if someone is looking for a reason to pull you over.

Did you give them a reason?

[AZRedhawk44]

Did you give them a reason?

Both Jocassee and I gave him a reason (in his mind at least).

I mailed my extortion to the courthouse, once I finally returned back to AZ.

[charby]

Both Jocassee and I gave him a reason (in his mind at least).

I mailed my extortion to the courthouse, once I finally returned back to AZ.

Were both of you exceeding the posted speed limit when you were pulled over?

[Balog]

Did you give them a reason?

In a lot of small towns that fund through tickets/asset forfeiture, "He ain't from 'round here" is all the reason that's needed. In Medina (super rich neighborhood in Bellevue where Bill Gates lives) driving while poor is a valid reason. In a lot of affluent white communities driving while black is a reason. Etc etc

[Jocassee]

Drive the speed limit and obey all traffic laws, no reason to get a ticket then. Argue otherwise, you are a law breaking criminal. 
 

Your point is not wrong, but in the best of libertarian traditions I'm going to stand on the point that cops should emphasize policing crimes and areas that have, you know, actual victims.

As a purely practical matter, my city has a large and growing gang, drug trafficking, and violent crime problem. We do not have a crushing Lunch Rush Traffic problem. Or an underage drinking problem (another set of laws they waste taxpayer money setting up stings to "fight.")

So when I see cops stacking up on the most-traveled section of freeway in the city which is normally quite safe, if running 10 over, I know that they are not doing the work they should be doing.

[AZRedhawk44]

Were both of you exceeding the posted speed limit when you were pulled over?

I dunno.  I wasn't looking at the speedometer, I was trying to keep up with my tour guide.   

[Jocassee]

Did you give them a reason?

All I have is the cop's word. I was watching the road and being a safe driver.

[AZRedhawk44]

All I have is the cop's word. I was watching the road and being a safe driver.

True, dat.  No radar.  Just a spitballed guess on the cop's part.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

It's virtually impossible to obey all traffic laws, if someone is looking for a reason to pull you over.

And yet i've driven just over 400 k miles without a ticket.
Am i that lucky?

damn phone