Author Topic: Another mall rampage, Omaha, Nebraska, at least five down  (Read 4026 times)

Manedwolf

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Another mall rampage, Omaha, Nebraska, at least five down
« on: December 05, 2007, 11:20:59 AM »
Is there concealed carry there? 20-30 people huddled in the back of Old Navy, waiting to be shot. That's just not right.

I don't ever go to a mall without carrying, anymore. Only thing I'd be huddling behind is hard cover, trying to line up a shot to stop the attacker. Tongue

Quote
Report: At Least Five People Shot at Omaha Mall

OMAHA, Neb. (AP)  Report: At least five people shot inside Omaha mall.

As many as five people may have been shot, and at least one killed at a busy Omaha shopping mall Wednesday afternoon around 2 p.m.

Police put the Westroads Mall on lockdown while it searched for the shooter, but it remained unclear if the gunman was still inside.

Omaha television station KETV reported that an elderly man was shot inside the Von Maur department store at the Westroads Mall, the largest mall in Nebraska.

Another local television station reported that an employee at the Von Maur store sustained a "self-inflicted" gunshot wound.

A woman who answered the phone at an Old Navy store said 20 to 30 customers were huddled with employees in a back storeroom.

"All we know was people were running and screaming down the hallway by Von Maur saying there was a shooting, and then they locked us down," said the woman, who said her name was Heidi.

The lockdown has reportedly been lifted to allow some people to leave the mall, but no one is being allowed to enter.

President Bush was in town Wednesday for a fundraiser in Omaha, but left about an hour before the shooting.

Firethorn

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Re: Another mall rampage, Omaha, Nebraska, at least five down
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2007, 11:33:42 AM »
It's legal in NE, but hasn't been for long.  If I remember right, the law went into effect earlier this year.  I'm willing to be that there'll be a few more applications now.

Omaha also had a ordinance that would have banned CCW(grandfathered in from before CCW was passed), but I heard they repealed that.

Also, it would be considered polite to attribute your quoting of the article.  A link to the site you got it from would be good.

Manedwolf

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Re: Another mall rampage, Omaha, Nebraska, at least five down
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2007, 11:40:18 AM »
Well, that one was Fox News, but it's the massive headline on every news site, so it's kinda hard to miss! I added the AP, as it was an AP syndicated feed posting.

 

El Tejon

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Re: Another mall rampage, Omaha, Nebraska, at least five down
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2007, 11:55:46 AM »
It's not like this is something new. rolleyes

More people SHOULD be ready, but it "never happens around here."
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Manedwolf

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Re: Another mall rampage, Omaha, Nebraska, at least five down
« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2007, 11:59:37 AM »
This time of year in particular is when depressed nuts are more likely to go...um...nuts. So I think even if you don't usually carry, if you have to go to a mall, you really, really, really should.
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(CNN) Witnesses described hiding in clothes racks and dressing rooms, and hearing as many as 65 shots.

Which means he had to reload, and could. Because he was unopposed.

Quote
One witness, Todd Trimpe, told FOX News that he saw police apprehend a man, dressed in camouflage, who was hiding under a bus-stop bench outside the mall. Trimpe said he did not know what was happening inside the mall when he witnessed the arrest.

Camouflage?

Bogie

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Re: Another mall rampage, Omaha, Nebraska, at least five down
« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2007, 12:05:51 PM »
There was a blurry picture on CNN's site of what looked like a black guy in BDUs who was handcuffed.... But they're still making noise like the guy's still loose. Could be they're handcuffing bystanders until they sort it out?
 
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Manedwolf

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Re: Another mall rampage, Omaha, Nebraska, at least five down
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2007, 12:20:11 PM »
CNN just upped it to nine dead, five wounded. Son of a...

Manedwolf

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Re: Another mall rampage, Omaha, Nebraska, at least five down
« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2007, 12:25:27 PM »
There was a blurry picture on CNN's site of what looked like a black guy in BDUs who was handcuffed.... But they're still making noise like the guy's still loose. Could be they're handcuffing bystanders until they sort it out?

According to other reports, the perp shot himself. If it turns out they cuffed a black member of the armed forces for wearing BDUs, that's going to get interesting.

tyme

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Re: Another mall rampage, Omaha, Nebraska, at least five down
« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2007, 12:28:16 PM »
Quote from: CNN Front page
Nine people were killed and five wounded Wednesday in a shooting at an Omaha, Nebraska, shopping mall, police said. The person thought to be the gunman was among the dead, of a self-inflicted gunshot wound.

Maybe the guy they apprehended dropped his cell phone while in camo?  Isn't that suspicious these days?
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Re: Another mall rampage, Omaha, Nebraska, at least five down
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2007, 02:06:08 PM »
Any bets on how long before the Schumer/Feinstein/Brady blood dance starts?

Matthew Carberry

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Re: Another mall rampage, Omaha, Nebraska, at least five down
« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2007, 02:17:11 PM »
19 year old with a rifle.

Probably a semi and a lot of folks died so probably a real caliber.

AWB fodder almost certainly.


Those poor people, hell of a Christmas present.  sad
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Manedwolf

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Re: Another mall rampage, Omaha, Nebraska, at least five down
« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2007, 02:54:42 PM »
19 year old with a rifle.

Probably a semi and a lot of folks died so probably a real caliber.

AWB fodder almost certainly.


Those poor people, hell of a Christmas present.  sad

I'll guess hi-point or WASR.

I'll guess hi-point or

Matthew Carberry

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Re: Another mall rampage, Omaha, Nebraska, at least five down
« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2007, 02:57:19 PM »
19 year old with a rifle.

Probably a semi and a lot of folks died so probably a real caliber.

AWB fodder almost certainly.


Those poor people, hell of a Christmas present.  sad

I'll guess hi-point or WASR.

I'll guess hi-point or _________

or what?  WHAT DAMN YOU!  grin
"Not all unwise laws are unconstitutional laws, even where constitutional rights are potentially involved." - Eugene Volokh

"As for affecting your movement, your Rascal should be able to achieve the the same speeds no matter what holster rig you are wearing."

Manedwolf

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Re: Another mall rampage, Omaha, Nebraska, at least five down
« Reply #13 on: December 05, 2007, 02:59:56 PM »
Or a double line error!

Sorry, in a cafe using an iPod Touch.  smiley

BTW, ABC News is already erroneously saying it was an automatic rifle...

Bogie

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Re: Another mall rampage, Omaha, Nebraska, at least five down
« Reply #14 on: December 05, 2007, 03:11:51 PM »
CNN's already calling the shooter a "victim."

The _real_ victims/witnesses were saying that the thing was making a "pop, pop, pop" noise... I'm thinking some sort of 9mm?
 
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Matthew Carberry

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Re: Another mall rampage, Omaha, Nebraska, at least five down
« Reply #15 on: December 05, 2007, 03:21:48 PM »
You drank the apple-juice?  grin

I was guessing 10/22 with aftermarket mags at first but the kill ratio seemed high.

"Not all unwise laws are unconstitutional laws, even where constitutional rights are potentially involved." - Eugene Volokh

"As for affecting your movement, your Rascal should be able to achieve the the same speeds no matter what holster rig you are wearing."

Bogie

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Re: Another mall rampage, Omaha, Nebraska, at least five down
« Reply #16 on: December 05, 2007, 03:54:05 PM »
Did they ever say anything else about the black guy in BDUs that they had cuffed?

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Manedwolf

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Re: Another mall rampage, Omaha, Nebraska, at least five down
« Reply #17 on: December 05, 2007, 05:52:49 PM »
The police just did a press conference, and said he had an "SKS assault rifle", which Anderson Cooper is now gleefully repeating over and over.

SKS. Son of a bitch.

Well. There goes AWB II...

Oh, yeah, and a convenient landlady was found who described the killer as a "lost puppy", and they're already launching into the retrospective of his troubled life. Which is precisely what this piece of ___ wanted.

When they used to just throw a killer's body in a ditch, this didn't have so much appeal. Every loser knows that if they go out killing a bunch of people, they'll get their fame.

That makes me sick.


Matthew Carberry

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Re: Another mall rampage, Omaha, Nebraska, at least five down
« Reply #18 on: December 05, 2007, 05:59:48 PM »
Who will save us from this new menace of 1950's technology?  rolleyes
"Not all unwise laws are unconstitutional laws, even where constitutional rights are potentially involved." - Eugene Volokh

"As for affecting your movement, your Rascal should be able to achieve the the same speeds no matter what holster rig you are wearing."

Manedwolf

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Re: Another mall rampage, Omaha, Nebraska, at least five down
« Reply #19 on: December 05, 2007, 06:24:11 PM »
Much older than that. Simonov presented the design to Stalin in WWII, and it was delayed into limited production only due to political scuffling in front of him with Tokarev. Stalin blamed his advisors for not convincing him that Simonov's was the better design. By that time, there were already well enough Mosin-Nagants to supply soldiers, so production went to machine guns instead.

member1313

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Re: Another mall rampage, Omaha, Nebraska, at least five down
« Reply #20 on: December 06, 2007, 12:42:05 AM »
Hypothetical situation since this is on topic:

Say you're in a mall, and you hear gunshots. You're carrying concealed, and you eventually end up engaging the shooter. What if the SWAT team enters the mall, and sees you with a gun? Aren't you going to get shot, too?

I guess I just worry for the safety of anyone carrying legally who intervenes in a crime like this.

Matthew Carberry

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Re: Another mall rampage, Omaha, Nebraska, at least five down
« Reply #21 on: December 06, 2007, 01:22:30 AM »
Hasn't been an issue yet, if only because the police generally are physically unable to hear about the crime, arrive and get to the actual scene before the shooter kills themself.

Remember, in almost every one of these situations the shooter commits suicide when confronted/resisted, or, as in this case, before the police are anywhere nearby.

There really isn't a good example to go by but, personally, if I'm engaging the shooter and become aware that the police are on site, I'm probably going to break contact and go to cover and make the gun inconspicuous.

In most other cases, I would just have to hope the police could tell the difference between the guy with the handgun behind cover (me) yelling "Drop your weapon ! Police! (as in "call the...")" as I fire and the guy with the rifle shooting at all the running people.
"Not all unwise laws are unconstitutional laws, even where constitutional rights are potentially involved." - Eugene Volokh

"As for affecting your movement, your Rascal should be able to achieve the the same speeds no matter what holster rig you are wearing."

280plus

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Re: Another mall rampage, Omaha, Nebraska, at least five down
« Reply #22 on: December 06, 2007, 01:49:15 AM »
Not that I have any experience but I don't think I'd be yelling at the guy. I'd want to make it as difficult as possible for him to pinpoint where the shots are coming from. Like, take a well aimed shot and then hide to wait for the next opportunity to take another. Of course, in reality, I might be shaking like a leaf so "well aimed" may not apply. I've been carrying my P32 lately becasue it's so comfortable. Suddenly I'm feeling undergunned.  sad
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280plus

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Re: Another mall rampage, Omaha, Nebraska, at least five down
« Reply #23 on: December 06, 2007, 02:57:56 AM »
I find it interesting that they reference Starweather

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071206/ap_on_re_us/mall_shooting

By OSKAR GARCIA, Associated Press Writer
11 minutes ago
 
OMAHA, Neb. - The teenager carried his rifle into the mall, passing shoppers and decorations.   
 
A department store employee was pressing a suit for a customer. A woman was making a quick stop to buy Christmas presents before picking up her son from school. Christmas music played.

The gunman stopped on the third floor and cut through the sounds with gunfire. Shoppers and employees at the Westroads Mall scrambled for cover in dressing rooms, clothing racks, offices and storage areas.

Eight people were killed and five wounded before the shooter ended the horror by taking his own life. He left behind a note that read, in part, "Now I'll be famous."

Robert A. Hawkins, 19, had recently split with his girlfriend and been fired from McDonald's. He had a criminal record and had left or been kicked out of his parents' house.

Police Chief Thomas Warren said the shooting appeared to be random and that the dead included five females and four males, including the gunman. Warren would not release the victims' identities Wednesday night and gave no motive for the attack, but promised more details in a news conference scheduled for Thursday morning.

Hawkins moved from his family's home about a year ago. He moved in with a friend's family, and Debora Maruca-Kovac and her husband welcomed him into their home and tried to help him.

"When he first came in the house, he was introverted, a troubled young man who was like a lost pound puppy that nobody wanted," Maruca-Kovac told The Associated Press.

She told the Omaha World-Herald that the night before the shooting, Hawkins and her sons showed her an SKS semiautomatic Russian military rifle  the same type used in the shooting. She said she thought the gun belonged to a member of Hawkins' family. She said she didn't think much of it  the gun looked too old to work.

Records in Sarpy and Washington counties showed Hawkins had a felony drug conviction and several misdemeanor cases filed against him, including an arrest 11 days before the shooting for having alcohol as a minor. He was due in court in two weeks.

Maruca-Kovac said Hawkins had recently broken up with a girlfriend and was fired from McDonald's. She told the World-Herald that Hawkins said he had been fired after being accused of stealing $17 from his till at the restaurant. McDonald's management declined to comment to the newspaper.

Maruca-Kovac said he phoned her at about 1 p.m. Wednesday, telling her he had left a note. She tried to get him to explain.

"He said, 'It's too late,'" and hung up, she told CNN. She then called Hawkins' mother.

In the note, which was turned over to authorities, Hawkins wrote that he was "sorry for everything" and would not be a burden on his family anymore. More ominously, he wrote, "Now I'll be famous."

Maruca-Kovac went to her job as a nurse at the Nebraska Medical Center, where victims of the shooting soon began to arrive.

The first 911 call came in at 1:42 p.m., and the shooting was already over when police arrived six minutes later, authorities said.

"We sent every available officer in the city of Omaha," Sgt. Teresa Negron said. "They came to the mall in lights and sirens."

The World-Herald reported that the gunman had a military-style haircut and a black backpack, and wore a camouflage vest.

Hawkins opened fire in a Von Maur store, part of a Midwestern chain.

Mickey Vickory, who worked in the store's third-floor service department, said she heard shots and went with coworkers and customers into a back closet, emerging about a half-hour later when police shouted to come out with their hands up. As police led them to another part of the mall for safety, they saw the victims.

"We saw the bodies and we saw the blood," she said.

Keith Fidler, another Von Maur employee, said he heard a burst of five to six shots followed by 15 to 20 more rounds. Fidler said he huddled in the corner of the men's clothing department with about a dozen other employees until police yelled to get out of the store.

Witness Shawn Vidlak said the shots sounded like a nail gun. At first he thought it was noise from construction work at the mall.

"People started screaming about gunshots," Vidlak said. "I grabbed my wife and kids. We got out of there as fast as we could."

Nebraska Medical Center spokeswoman Andrea McMaster said the hospital had three victims from the mall shooting, including Fred Wilson, 61, who was in critical condition early Thursday with a bullet wound to his chest.

Another critically wounded victim was at Creighton University Medical Center, spokeswoman Lisa Stites said.

On Wednesday night, police used a bomb robot to access a Jeep Cherokee left in the mall parking lot that authorities believe belonged to Hawkins. Officers had seen some wires under some clothing, but no bomb was found.

President Bush was in Omaha on Wednesday for a fundraiser, but left about an hour before the shooting.

"Having just visited with so many members of the community in Omaha today, the president is confident that they will pull together to comfort one another," White House press secretary Dana Perino said.

The sprawling, three-level mall has more than 135 stores and restaurants. It gets 14.5 million visitors every year, according to its Web site.

It was the second mass shooting at a mall this year. In February, nine people were shot, five of them fatally, at Trolley Square mall in Salt Lake City. The gunman, 18-year-old Sulejman Talovic, was shot and killed by police.

The shooting spree was Nebraska's deadliest since January 1958, when Charles Starkweather killed 10 people in Nebraska and another in Wyoming.

___

Associated Press writers Josh Funk, Timberly Ross and Eric Olson in Omaha and Lara Jakes Jordan in Washington contributed to this report.

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StopTheGrays

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Re: Another mall rampage, Omaha, Nebraska, at least five down
« Reply #24 on: December 06, 2007, 05:58:24 AM »
I was watching either ABC or NBC this morning and one of them was saying the rifle the shooter used was a SKS. Which is okay but the graphic they had up to show what an SKS is was of a lever action rifle.  rolleyes

Does any image illustrate so neatly the wrongheadedness of the Obama administration than Americans scrambling in terror from Air Force One?
Just great…Chicago politics has spread to all 57 states.
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