USA #1! USA! USA!

[makattak]

That's right, as of April 1, the United States will be #1 in the world...



... for corporate tax rate.

http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2011/03/tax-foundation-us.html

That's SURE to encourage investment and lower unemployment, right!??

So puff your chest out Americans, once again, we're #1 in the world.

[TommyGunn]

How's the hopey-changey stuff working for YOU, Obama? Inquiring minds wanna know.
Can't wait to see the effects of this on the economy....

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

No need to wait and see what the effects will be.  Our taxes and regulations have been onerous on business for years now.  The results are plain to see, with businesses increasingly moving operations offshore, and with the economy becoming less resilient.

[makattak]

No need to wait and see what the effects will be.  Our taxes and regulations have been onerous on business for years now.  The results are plain to see, with businesses increasingly moving operations offshore, and with the economy becoming less resilient.

You beat me to it.

I also love the morons exclaiming, "but we had a much higher tax rate 60 years ago and were the leaders of the world in EVERYTHING!"

I wonder if these people understand the difference between absolute and relative. I seriously doubt it.

[kgbsquirrel]

You beat me to it.

I also love the morons exclaiming, "but we had a much higher tax rate 60 years ago and were the leaders of the world in EVERYTHING!"

I wonder if these people understand the difference between absolute and relative. I seriously doubt it.

60 years ago we were also the only major industrialized power that hadn't been blown to hell and gone in that little spat known as the Second World War. It's hard to not be the leader when everyone you are competing against is either just starting to crawl out of a pile of rubble that used to be their major industrial center, or hasn't even achieved pile-of-rubble status yet.

[French G.]

60 years ago we were also the only major industrialized power that hadn't been blown to hell and gone in that little spat known as the Second World War. It's hard to not be the leader when everyone you are competing against is either just starting to crawl out of a pile of rubble that used to be their major industrial center, or hasn't even achieved pile-of-rubble status yet.

I smell a solution in there somewhere. Not as simple as lowering taxes, but more likely to happen, stimulates the economy too!

[Lee]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Chart_1.png

At the risk of being called dirty names...like liberal commie...I'd have to admit that spending may the main issue, but not the only issue.  We've been spinning out of control since Reagan.
The highest earners paid much higher taxes in the "glory days" of the US....and there was actually a broad middle class that paid taxes, and bought stuff that spurred the economy and created more tax revenue. The really Rich have sold the working class a political bill of goods over the past 30 years....convincing them that taxes on the ultra rich will kill the economy.   

[French G.]

Your chart says screw the rich to pay for the New Deal and this great new world we're going to build. Correlation does not equal causation, I'd bet that those ridiculous tax rates had nothing to do with our "glory days" just happened at the same time, as already mentioned, pretty easy to be the best when you're the winner and everyone else, even the other winners are a smoking hole. How could a 75% tax on the highest earners ever be sustainable? I get taxed that much and I will cheat, earn less, or move to another country. Hey, just like our businesses do!

[makattak]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Chart_1.png

At the risk of being called dirty names...like liberal commie...I'd have to admit that spending may the main issue, but not the only issue.  We've been spinning out of control since Reagan.
The highest earners paid much higher taxes in the "glory days" of the US....and there was actually a broad middle class that paid taxes, and bought stuff that spurred the economy and created more tax revenue. The really Rich have sold the working class a political bill of goods over the past 30 years....convincing them that taxes on the ultra rich will kill the economy.   

...I also love the people exclaiming, "but we had a much higher tax rate 60 years ago and were the leaders of the world in EVERYTHING!"

I wonder if these people understand the difference between absolute and relative. I seriously doubt it.

60 years ago we were also the only major industrialized power that hadn't been blown to hell and gone in that little spat known as the Second World War. It's hard to not be the leader when everyone you are competing against is either just starting to crawl out of a pile of rubble that used to be their major industrial center, or hasn't even achieved pile-of-rubble status yet.

It's like you didn't read the rest of the thread...

[TommyGunn]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Chart_1.png

At the risk of being called dirty names...like liberal commie...I'd have to admit that spending may the main issue, but not the only issue.  We've been spinning out of control since Reagan.
The highest earners paid much higher taxes in the "glory days" of the US....and there was actually a broad middle class that paid taxes, and bought stuff that spurred the economy and created more tax revenue. The really Rich have sold the working class a political bill of goods over the past 30 years....convincing them that taxes on the ultra rich will kill the economy.   

Yes, back in the mid 20th century we had a tax rate that was insanely high.  The richest were taxed at a rate about 91% at one point, reduced later, IIRC, to about 71%.  Some libtards love to point this out.
What they fail to state is that there were many more tax shelters back then.  Few if any actually paid an effective 91% income tax.
We still have some shelters, dodges and whatnot but not like there used to be.

[Monkeyleg]

I remember doing taxes before Reagan cut the top rates and eliminated most deductions. Everything was deductible, even credit card interest.

[De Selby]

When you realise that Clinton and Bush's economic policies were essentially the same as Reagan's, you have to wonder how we ended up in this economic position....I mean, if it was 20 straight years of economic awesome before 2008, why the hell did it all evaporate in a matter of months? 

[209]

In many ways, corporate taxes are the most regressive tax we use.  It just means we pay more for everything because the corporations just pass the cost of the tax on.  I never really understood the principle.

[seeker_two]

In many ways, corporate taxes are the most regressive tax we use.  It just means we pay more for everything because the corporations just pass the cost of the tax on.  I never really understood the principle.

Actually, you understand it better than you think.... 

[De Selby]

In many ways, corporate taxes are the most regressive tax we use.  It just means we pay more for everything because the corporations just pass the cost of the tax on.  I never really understood the principle.

I'm not convinced of this.  Corporations have to deal with market constraints on the prices of their goods.  If it were as simple as passing on the costs, they wouldn't invest so much money in fighting the taxes.  They certainly aren't spending that political cash for your benefit.

[makattak]

In many ways, corporate taxes are the most regressive tax we use.  It just means we pay more for everything because the corporations just pass the cost of the tax on.  I never really understood the principle.

Actually, it's worse than that. Corporations are taxed on profits, so they do everything they can to have their profits not count as "profits." Thus we get over-re-investment (is that a word?) into the company, and many other ways of keeping "profits" down.

And, if they pay those profits as dividends, they get taxed, AGAIN, as income. YAY! Double taxing!!

[makattak]

I'm not convinced of this.  Corporations have to deal with market constraints on the prices of their goods.  If it were as simple as passing on the costs, they wouldn't invest so much money in fighting the taxes.  They certainly aren't spending that political cash for your benefit.

The entirety of the cost cannot be passed onto consumers unless it is a perfectly inelastic demand curve: the percentage of cost passed onto consumers is a function of the elasticity of the demand. More elasticity means less cost passed onto consumers.

So, oil companies pass most of the cost of taxes onto consumers. Unicorn Spam companies have to eat most of the cost.

In other words, the things we need the most will have the most cost passed onto consumers, meaning it's regressive.

[French G.]

I've been fortunate enough to get to travel a lot. The most striking example(in a nominally free country) I've seen of government tax policy killing a country was in Norway this past year. My wife commented how everybody must be rich due to the number of Mercedes and the like on the road. No honey, the only ones that can afford $8/gallon gas are the Mercedes owners.  saw little to no initiative in that country. Good to excellent social welfare coupled with ridiculous taxes = why work hard? Supposedly you can hardly get across the border to Sweden on the weekend due to all the people off to shop in Sweden and duck the 28% VAT. Keep raising taxes, we'll make more money! 

[MechAg94]

I'm not convinced of this.  Corporations have to deal with market constraints on the prices of their goods.  If it were as simple as passing on the costs, they wouldn't invest so much money in fighting the taxes.  They certainly aren't spending that political cash for your benefit.

It also means Corporations move over seas to avoid paying corporate taxes on overseas profits and such. 
That is one reason I am not happy with our tax system.  We tax profits of corporations and individuals.  We tax employment with payroll taxes and such.  Then we complain about unemployment and companies moving overseas or moving manufacturing overseas.  Well, if you increase the cost of doing business, businesses are going to look for solutions.   

[Viking]

I've been fortunate enough to get to travel a lot. The most striking example(in a nominally free country) I've seen of government tax policy killing a country was in Norway this past year. My wife commented how everybody must be rich due to the number of Mercedes and the like on the road. No honey, the only ones that can afford $8/gallon gas are the Mercedes owners.  saw little to no initiative in that country. Good to excellent social welfare coupled with ridiculous taxes = why work hard? Supposedly you can hardly get across the border to Sweden on the weekend due to all the people off to shop in Sweden and duck the 28% VAT. Keep raising taxes, we'll make more money! 

Correct. As you may or may not know, we've got a .gov monopoly on selling alcohol here, together with high taxes...The .gov liquor store in Strömstad (IIRC), which is a small town, constantly reports the best profits, because of the Norwegians who go across the border. I don't want to even begin to imagine how much booze must cost in Norway if it's a good deal to go here to get it. I do know that I paid what seemed like double the price for a pack of cigarettes a few years ago when I was in Norway, compared to what I paid here at the time...

[French G.]

Heh, I was getting a little worn out on drinking Coke at $4/750ml so I thought I'd do the logical Euro thing and switch to beer, always seemed to work in my sailor days. Well, beer was about $5/pint can. Nope, not doing it.

[Viking]

Heh, I was getting a little worn out on drinking Coke at $4/750ml so I thought I'd do the logical Euro thing and switch to beer, always seemed to work in my sailor days. Well, beer was about $5/pint can. Nope, not doing it.

Smuggling beer, booze and cigarettes to Norway is quite profitable from what I've heard .

[Lee]

It's like you didn't read the rest of the thread...

You're right... I didn't read all of it.  But it's generally the same story.  I've heard Rush and the others preach about it for a decade or more..ditto ditto ditto.  I'd never claim to be a financial genius - or even understand anything more than basics. I could never of dreamed of things like derivatives or bundling bad debt into investment packages. But I do understand the concept of income vs spending.  We've lowered tax rates for 30+ years while spending trillions for a war on some drugs, subsidizing health care, and reorganizing the middle east because a few misguided arabs attacked us with box cutters.

[Scout26]

Correct. As you may or may not know, we've got a .gov monopoly on selling alcohol here, together with high taxes...The .gov liquor store in Strömstad (IIRC), which is a small town, constantly reports the best profits, because of the Norwegians who go across the border. I don't want to even begin to imagine how much booze must cost in Norway if it's a good deal to go here to get it. I do know that I paid what seemed like double the price for a pack of cigarettes a few years ago when I was in Norway, compared to what I paid here at the time...

Back when I was stationed in Germany we bought two Saabs, and picked them up in Trollhatten.  We had to take the ferry from Kiel to Goteberg and it was filled with twentish Swedes just getting hammered.  I asked one of the stewards what was going on, a birthday or wedding or some other party?  He replied "No, it's like this every weekend, they get on the ferry and party coming and going because the beer and booze is duty free and much cheaper then in Sweden."

[French G.]

Yes, the duty free ferry from Norway to Denmark was quite the deal. Not as much of a deal as getting on the all night train through Denmark to Kiel only to discover that it was Carnival or somesuch and your quiet overnight jetlagged trainride was going to be shared with 500 of your newest drunkest frenz. Oh well, the pirate wench who sat on my table was cute at least. The one who sat on my armrest not bad either. Jetlagged wife was my travel buddy so play it cool man and don't stare.  Hey, were we talking about taxing commies or something?