Prescriptions required for things they should not be required for.

[wmenorr67]

As a firefighter/first responder, I can't administer O2 to a patient because it's a drug. Only EMTs can do that.

Explain how O₂ is a drug?

[lupinus]

As a firefighter/first responder, I can't administer O2 to a patient because it's a drug. Only EMTs can do that.

Yeeeeep. I signed up to be part of the band aid brigade in my distribution center and inquired about O2. We have AED's, fall arrest/rescue equipment for the crane aisles, fun vital monitoring stuff. So I am perfectly capable and certified to electrocute your lifeless ass....but I can't do a whole heck of a lot for you if you're having a little trouble getting air.

[dogmush]

A lot of the dog mushers i know would be pretty good practitioners of ditch medicine in the event of shtf, and they have the med and surgical supplies to do it too.

 

My SHTF First aid bag includes a laryngoscope among other things.  Here's hoping I never need it.

And I've been out of mushing for 13 years now.

[Boomhauer]

Explain how O₂ is a drug?

*expletive deleted*ck all if I know. It just is (IIRC, the idiots in the FDA has classified it as so). I can do CPR but I cannot administer O2. Can do AEDs, can't administer O2. Even through sticking an O2 mask on you could save your life, and it's pretty much not ever going to do any harm so long as you don't ignite it...

CPR is a hell of a lot more dangerous. So is doing AEDs. Thank some idiot administrator for that one.

[Ben]

As a firefighter/first responder, I can't administer O2 to a patient because it's a drug. Only EMTs can do that.

You should reinvestigate that with your employer. When I still had my .gov diver ticket, we were required to take First Aid/CPR/AED/O2 admin every two years. The O2 part of the course was basically the Divers Alert Network (DAN) O2 training. Any recreational diver can buy a DAN O2 kit. You need a prescription to obtain medical O2 refills, but frankly, for most uses, there is little difference between medical O2 and commercial O2 from a reputable supplier, since they all fill cylinders with USP gas, even for welding. The only difference is that the medical and aviator O2 cylinders are completely evacuated to vacuum before refilling, and the commercial cylinders are not.

O2 is the number one response to any diver injury or suspicion of injury. Even if they're just feeling tired, the first response is always to stick an O2 mask on them because if nothing else, it can't hurt, and if there is an embolism or other serious condition, it will only immediately begin to help. O2 kits are carried on every dive boat that takes recreational divers out, and I guarantee you that 90% of those crews do not have EMTs onboard, only people who have taken the one day DAN course.

My favorite thing to do during O2 refresher training was to hog an O2 bottle to myself and take big whiffs all through class. :)

[Tallpine]

Explain how O₂ is a drug?

You want pushers selling O₂ to your first grader on the sidewalk by the school 

 





  

[roo_ster]

You want pushers selling O₂ to your first grader on the sidewalk by the school 

 





  

That is so unrealistic.  Kids don;t walk to school on sidewalks anymore*.





* They glide to school on the effervescent wake created by BHO as he passes through in his armored limo.

[wuluf]

it's going to get worse.  I read the other day that California passed a law requiring a prescription for currently OTC cough syrups containing dextramorphen (SP, but I'm too lazy to look it up).  I tend to get a nasty cough when I get a head cold.  I already have to jump through hoops to get codeine, now I'll have to do the same for regular ol' Robotussin DM.  If I can't get that, what else is there that works?

Just to clarify, Google says RX needed for minors only...
Happy New Year APS...

[AmbulanceDriver]

Ahem....

There are a few circumstances where supplemental O2 *can* hurt.  And that is why for the most part, they require you to be at least an EMT cert to administer O2, and why it's Rx only.  Yes, the DAN O2 stuff is spot on.  It works because most of the circumstances where extra O2 is a problem is with elderly chronic smokers...  Things like emphysema and COPD patients, in other words, NOT recreational or commercial divers...

Lemme tell you what the O2 bad scenario is:  You have two main chemoreceptors in your body that control the respiratory drive.  The primary is a CO2 drive...  When your blood CO2 level gets too high, it causes your respiratory rate to increase.  This drive actually controls all sorts of things, even down to the acid/base balance of your blood (dissolved CO2 forms carbonic acid, which decreases blood pH.  Increasing the respiratory rate blows off said CO2, returning blood pH to normal).  Chronic smokers in particular have managed to knock out that drive....   So the backup respiratory drive kicks in.  The hypoxic drive.  This one is not as finely tuned as the CO2 drive, and allows for wider swings in blood pH...  Because it doesn't measure blood CO2...  So when your oxygen level gets too low (you become hypoxic), your respiratory rate increases.  The problem becomes when you start administering high levels of O2 to these patients.  Their gas exchange becomes more efficient in only one direction - O2.  They don't blow off CO2 any better.  So with the increasing oxygen saturation of the blood, their respiratory rate decreases.  This increases CO2 concentration in the blood - primarily dissolved in plasma.  They also don't breathe as deeply, causing certain sections of their lungs to become stagnant with CO2 laden air.  Their blood becomes increasingly acidotic, to the point that they begin having other problems.  Up to and including cardiac arrest, because the decreased blood pH causes muscles to just not function as well, if at all.  The other danger comes from removing them from the O2 supply too quickly, they simply can't adjust to the change in O2 concentration and may drop into respiratory arrest due to the suddenly dangerously low O2 saturation of their blood.

[charby]

I agree with AD.

I've taken enough biologic classes to understand that the average person is not smart enough to self-medicate with modern medicines. Using these modern medicines inappropriately will make worse for society in the long run.

Plus people complain about all the stringent tests that medicine needs to go through before it arrives on the market, I'm okay with it because we don't need all the negative side effects that can an expensive societal cost.

One example here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalidomide

Also for those that want to stock pile, medicine does have a shelf life where it becomes ineffective or could be harmful.

[Ben]

Ahem....

 And that is why for the most part, they require you to be at least an EMT cert to administer O2,

This is the part I still don't understand. If this is a law, I would have fully expected the .gov to say we could NOT administer O2. We have a special dive medic certification that is essentially EMT training, but that's not required for any .gov diver to administer O2. In fact they were (are) always adamant that all working divers have the basic O2 cert because they wanted as many people as possible trained to administer O2.

So is this actually a law that the fed.gov is superceding on its own in certain conditions, or is this a requirement in the medical community?

[mtnbkr]

Just to clarify, Google says RX needed for minors only...
Happy New Year APS...

Thanks, I didn't see that in the article I read several days ago.  Still, I'd rather them just not let minors purchase OTC cough syrup rather than require a trip to a doctor for an Rx. 

Chris

[Boomhauer]

but that's not required for any .gov diver to administer O2

Remember, the .gov makes the law.

For us peons, no O2 admin without EMT certs. Unless we are directed to by qualified medical personnel.

It works because most of the circumstances where extra O2 is a problem is with elderly chronic smokers.

I'll acknowledge that, but said problems...if we get the patient to the hospital shortly after arrival, can they deal with the swings in blood PH and such that you were talking about?

[AmbulanceDriver]

We try really hard not to make our patients basic or acidotic... That being said, if they really need high flow O2 (ie heart attack), we're going to give it to them and let the hospital deal with it.  But we'll try to balance their oxygen need with not knocking out their respiratory drive.  It gets too exciting when that happens...