Crib Notes - Palin vs Obama

[Tallpine]

Whatever else you may think, Obama did a good job running his presidential campaign.

It says so right there on his resumè 

[Balog]

I contend that no one could look good given the same level of antagonistic media scrutiny Palin has received. Obama would've been crying like a little girl if he'd received even 1/4 the negative attention Palin has. Saying "Palin is a bad campaigner" is meaningless. No one on God's little green dirtball could've managed to not be portrayed as stupid/incompetent etc by the media, given the same position.

[Monkeyleg]

Obama would've been crying like a little girl if he'd received even 1/4 the negative attention Palin has.

There's been a lot of tantrums coming from the White House now that many in the media are doing real reporting.

[De Selby]

The media were favouring Hillary Clinton early on folks - Barack Obama beat the democratic establishment into selecting him, which was not easy to do.  He was helped along by the mediocrity of Hillary, but the Clintons have never been media or campaign fools, and he beat them.  Go back to your early (pre-kick off) articles about Obama and tell me how much "love" there was for him. 

There's also the fact that his campaign won fairly easily.  I'd say that's successful campaigning, myself, but then again I'm no expert.  This despite 25 percent of the population in some quarters thinking he's an African born muslim.

[Monkeyleg]

Whooo boy. SS, can we get some of what you're smoking?

Hillary had been leading in the popular vote, but had Michigan and Florida pulled out from under her when the DNC decided not to count those states' primaries. (I can still hear the 2000 DNC rallying cry: "count every vote!"). This reminds me of Obama's campaign expertise exhibited when he ran for state office and sued to have his opponents removed from the ballot.

There's also the fact that his campaign won fairly easily.  I'd say that's successful campaigning, myself, but then again I'm no expert.

No, you're no expert. First off, McCain was leading in most polls right up until the financial fiasco, and he blew that chance. Obama didn't do anything right, McCain did something wrong. Given the level of "anyone but Bush" sentiment, and the anti-Republican mood, the Democrat nominee should have blown his opponent out of the water. Remember the predictions of Obama winning by 20 points? Seven points isn't a blow-out.

Obama is such a fantastic campaigner that polls show if the election were held again today, he would lose. And, bear in mind, he's been continually campaigning since he took office.

[Balog]

This despite 25 percent of the population in some quarters thinking he's an African born muslim.

The best kind of statistics are the ones you make up yourself... 

[Sawdust]

quoting myself:
You might have something.  I've often wondered if a President should not be elected so much as dragged kicking and screaming into office.  Maybe we'd get a better one that way.

This is essentially how we ended-up with George Washington as our first President.

Best one we ever had; be sure to raise a toast to him on Monday.

Sawdust

[De Selby]

Whooo boy. SS, can we get some of what you're smoking?

Hillary had been leading in the popular vote, but had Michigan and Florida pulled out from under her when the DNC decided not to count those states' primaries. (I can still hear the 2000 DNC rallying cry: "count every vote!"). This reminds me of Obama's campaign expertise exhibited when he ran for state office and sued to have his opponents removed from the ballot.

No, you're no expert. First off, McCain was leading in most polls right up until the financial fiasco, and he blew that chance. Obama didn't do anything right, McCain did something wrong. Given the level of "anyone but Bush" sentiment, and the anti-Republican mood, the Democrat nominee should have blown his opponent out of the water. Remember the predictions of Obama winning by 20 points? Seven points isn't a blow-out.

Obama is such a fantastic campaigner that polls show if the election were held again today, he would lose. And, bear in mind, he's been continually campaigning since he took office.

Yeah, you need to review your timelines of Michigan and Florida.  And yeah, I'm so smoking that I correctly predicted the win.  I guess that must have been just blind luck, calling it for Obama.  I mean, so many people (including Micro, who is not even American) were just off their rockers before that big win.  Pure luck.

Or not.

[Monkeyleg]

And yeah, I'm so smoking that I correctly predicted the win.  I guess that must have been just blind luck, calling it for Obama.

A rock could have predicted a Democrat win in 2008. The fact that McCain had a slight lead up until the financial meltdown speaks volumes about Obama's "expertise."

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

A rock could have predicted a Democrat win in 2008. The fact that McCain had a slight lead up until the financial meltdown speaks volumes about Obama's "expertise."

That.

[RoadKingLarry]

There's been a lot of tantrums coming from the White House now that many a rare few in the media are doing real reporting.

FIFY 

[De Selby]

A rock could have predicted a Democrat win in 2008. The fact that McCain had a slight lead up until the financial meltdown speaks volumes about Obama's "expertise."

Yes, but this misses the point, which is that a Democrat win is a different thing entirely from this versus that Democrat winning.  The Clintons held the reigns of the Democratic party at that time, were skilled media manipulators, and had run two near flawless campaigns that managed to overcome scandal after scandal after scandal.  Obama beat them.  That to me is a pretty good indicator of campaign expertise.

I agree that he's shown no sparks as a leader, but again, those are different skills entirely.

[Monkeyleg]

...skilled media manipulators....

Make that "manipulated media" and you've got a point. Hillary's treatment by the media was almost as biased as McCain's. The media was in the tank for Obama early on.

I'll give Obama's people credit for utilizing the internet very well, and for theatrics. In the end, though, a very junior senator with a resume as thin as Obama's would never have gotten the nomination had he been white. Not ever.

The Clintons held the reigns (sic) of the Democratic party at that time...

The Clintons owned the party when the DNC chairman was Terry McCauliffe, the Clinton's boy. Howard Dean wasn't owned by the Clinton's, and wasn't exactly a friend.

[De Selby]

Good catch on reins - I always make that mistake.

It looks like, after all this back and forth, we actually agree on the fundamental point:

I'll give Obama's people credit for utilizing the internet very well, and for theatrics.

Theatrics and communications are the core of campaigns.  That's why people who are not necessarily good presidents sometimes handily win elections, and people who would be excellent presidents don't even get close.

What aspect of the PR game has Palin handled well?

[MechAg94]

Since it was the McCain people running the PR during the campaign, her own campaign management skills are up in the air.  We don't know.  However, she seems to be pretty good at connecting with average Americans.  Even when the media was smearing her, she was drawing huge crowds at speaking engagements.  What will happen in the future I don't know. 

[Monkeyleg]

...she was drawing huge crowds at speaking engagements.

She was drawing as many people as Obama. Where will SS go with that?

[Sergeant Bob]

Since it was the McCain people running the PR during the campaign, her own campaign management skills are up in the air.  We don't know.  However, she seems to be pretty good at connecting with average Americans.  Even when the media was smearing her, she was drawing huge crowds at speaking engagements.  What will happen in the future I don't know. 

Zactly. She started off pretty well but (IIRC) once she clashed with McCain's opinions, she suddenly just started parroting his talking points and a lot of people then just lost interest. I was really surprised how many people were ragging on her, yet still supporting McCain. His people put there thumb down and came out worse for it.

[De Selby]

Since it was the McCain people running the PR during the campaign, her own campaign management skills are up in the air.  We don't know.  However, she seems to be pretty good at connecting with average Americans.  Even when the media was smearing her, she was drawing huge crowds at speaking engagements.  What will happen in the future I don't know. 

Well, let's see - that Katie Couric interview was no shining moment.  Then there was that speech she gave while resigning as Governor.  And the crib notes on her hand.  Yeah, not too sure that we don't know about her PR skills.

Howard Stern draws a big crowd.  So does Britney Spears.  Neither have serious chances of winning national office any time soon.  I think we need to find alternative measures of PR talent there...

[Monkeyleg]

Well, let's see - that Katie Couric interview was no shining moment.  Then there was that speech she gave while resigning as Governor.  And the crib notes on her hand.  Yeah, not too sure that we don't know about her PR skills.p

Howard Stern draws a big crowd.  So does Britney Spears.  Neither have serious chances of winning national office any time soon.  I think we need to find alternative measures of PR talent there..

And Palin is so incompetent, such an idiot, and is so poor at campaigning that she doesn't have the proverbial snowball's chance to be elected to anything, that you and your liberal fellow travellers feel it necessary to constantly attack her.

Doesn't make sense.

[makattak]

And Palin is so incompetent, such an idiot, and is so poor at campaigning that she doesn't have the proverbial snowball's chance to be elected to anything, that you and your liberal fellow travellers feel it necessary to constantly attack her.

Doesn't make sense.

Oderint dum metuant.

And, they do. Fear is the only explanation for the absolute visceral hate directed at Gov. Palin.

Going after her kids? Yeah... these people are seriously afraid and their only tool is to destroy someone, even if it means destroying their family.

In fact, I think they take joy at destroying someone's entire life.

[roo_ster]

Theatrics and communications are the core of campaigns.  That's why people who are not necessarily good presidents sometimes handily win elections, and people who would be excellent presidents don't even get close.

What aspect of the PR game has Palin handled well?

Of what she has had control of, her resignation speech from Alaska Gov was poorly done.  But, she has been masterful in using the 'net.  For a while there, it was "Palin with Facebook vs BHO with the entire MSM."  And Palin gave BHO a run for his money, despite having zero resources.

[MechAg94]

Well, let's see - that Katie Couric interview was no shining moment.  Then there was that speech she gave while resigning as Governor.  And the crib notes on her hand.  Yeah, not too sure that we don't know about her PR skills.

Howard Stern draws a big crowd.  So does Britney Spears.  Neither have serious chances of winning national office any time soon.  I think we need to find alternative measures of PR talent there...

As mentioned much earlier in the thread, since you forgot, the Couric interview was a failure of the McCain campaign.  They set up a hostile interview and allowed them to edit it down as they saw fit.  How many Hostile interviews has your hero President Obama done?  It's an easy answer.  

You are the one who keeps making a big deal about the notes on her hand.  No one else gives a damn.  Since you already don't like her, I'd say that was a deciding factor.

I didn't even see the resignation speech.  I just find it funny that you try to slam her for that when it was your ideological buddies who were dumping her with lawsuits while she was governor.  If that happened to you, I think I'd just laugh at you.  :D


Honestly, I don't know if I would vote for the lady or not, but these petty attacks are nuts.  It reflects on you, not her.
The last point would be that if I really wanted to come up with reasons why Obama isn't fit for office, I could come up with a whole lot more than this.  If that is your best shot, it is pretty weak.

[De Selby]

Okay, again here folks: lots of media attention does not correlate to someone being a "threat" politically.  Tiger Woods gets lots of coverage.  I doubt that's because the liberal establishment thinks he might win an election.  Same goes for Glenn Beck and Anne Coulter - the latter have been routinely barbecued, along with Bill O'Reilly.  I don't think anyone would make the argument that it happens because those people are serious contenders for a national office.

Media go after people because it generates ratings.  Palin's looks were probably a part of it, and her baby daddy story was a big help too.  It is a business like any other; needs to sell stories to survive.

Going back to the Couric interview, I don't see questions as "so what do you read?" as particularly sneaky attacks.  Most APSers who participate in this forum could have done twice the job she did in answering the substantive questions.  Even for interviews that are tough, you can do better than outright failure, which is what she did in that interview.  It's not the McCain campaign's fault that she didn't know how to interview.

The thing about this thread is, I'm not slamming her leadership skills or management talent.  I just find it baffling that anyone would call her a great campaigner.  If there's any ideology messing with the facts here, I'd say that's it.  Just because you like Palin's policies doesn't mean that having words like "tax break" scribbled on your palms for a speech is a slick PR move.

[MechAg94]

Who called her a "great campaigner"? 

[Monkeyleg]

Just because you like Palin's policies doesn't mean that having words like "tax break" scribbled on your palms for a speech is a slick PR move.

And you, of course, know this is what was scribbled on her hand.

How much media coverage are Huckabee or Romney getting right now compared to Palin? When was the last time you saw either of them on a magazine cover? How many editorial cartoons have you seen in the last five months about either of them?

Without going back and reading every post, I don't think anyone is saying she's a great campaigner. She does appeal to people, though, and she draws crowds. Even if she doesn't run, I suspect the candidates will ask her to appear for them. She's doing that now in several states (including here in Wisconsin).

What's interesting is the reaction to her by liberals like SS. It's very similar to the visceral and sometimes unhinged hatred of Bush and Reagan.