‘We the People’ Loses Appeal With People Around the World

[longeyes]

Uh, no the secret Muslims aren't taking over the Red Army.  At least not in any way discernible to the folks that watch them and not www.jihadwatch.com.  And even if they were, it bears mentioning that a vanishingly small percentage of the Muslims in the world are ready to fight in some kind of global Jihad.  The actual number of people fighting for some sort of islamic global takeover is pretty damn pathetic.

I'll state again what I've said before: Radical Islamic terrorists aren't a threat to the United States as a country.  They just aren't.  They can kill Americans, and should definately be prevented from doing so at every turn.  But they just don't have the logistics, skills or numbers to threaten this country.

Who said they were "secret?"  I think you are simply uninformed on this subject but still ready to offer an expert opinion.  Russians don't reproduce--except for their Muslim peoples.  That's not Nitrox speaking, it's readily available demographic data. 

Numerous polls, by the way, have told us that a very substantial percentage of Muslims are sympathetic to militant jihad, but I guess what is happening in the MENA, post Arab spring, bespeaks something "vanishingly small." 

[MicroBalrog]

Russians don't reproduce--except for their Muslim peoples.  That's not Nitrox speaking, it's readily available demographic data.

On the contrary. Readily available demographic data - to what extent demographic data from Rosstat can be trusted - speaks of a rising birth rate in every single region of Russia, including areas not populated by Muslims. It's still below death rate, but it is a rising birth rate and a falling death rate.

[longeyes]

You are not really maintaining that Russian Muslims are not significantly out-reproducing Russian non-Muslims?  

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2006/nov/20/20061120-115904-9135r/?page=all

http://english.pravda.ru/history/21-07-2008/105837-russiaislam-0/

http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/2005/08/predicting-a-majority-muslim-russia

http://www.vnnforum.com/showthread.php?t=80444

http://pewresearch.org/pubs/1872/muslim-population-projections-worldwide-fast-growth

[MicroBalrog]

You are not really referring to VNN as a news source, are you?

[MicroBalrog]

You are not really maintaining that Russian Muslims are not significantly out-reproducing Russian non-Muslims?  

You clearly have misstated my assertion.

What I am claiming is that Russian non-Muslim birth rates are accelerating, while Muslim birth rates in Russia are decelerating. I'm talking about the picture in time - as in the change from 2005-2006-2007-2008. A link from 2005, even if it points out Muslim birth rates being 10 times Russian birth rates, would not disprove or prove my point.

 In addition, the Mufti's claim that '20% of Russians are Muslim' is also not based on any research.. The Russian census counts only ethnicities - about 10%-14% of Russia's inhabitants (including non-citizens) belong to ethnicities that are 'traditionally' expected to be Muslim. Not all are.

It's known that anywhere from 10-15% of those 'ethnic Muslims' are actually worshipping other faiths, like Orthodox Christianity, and many are even atheists.  (That's 1.4-1.6 million people who are 'supposed' statistically to be Muslims but are actually not).

[Perd Hapley]

It's known that anywhere from 10-15% of those 'ethnic Muslims' are actually worshipping other faiths, like Orthodox Christianity, and many are even atheists.  (That's 1.4-1.6 million people who are 'supposed' statistically to be Muslims but are actually not).

But if your father is a Islam, then you have to be one. This is how we know that Obama is a Islam.

[longeyes]

Sophistry.  The issue is relative repro rates, the differential, and, of course, where things will stand demographically at some future point.  Many people point to the same scenario, which you clearly do not want to believe for reasons best known only to you.

[longeyes]

But if your father is a Islam, then you have to be one. This is how we know that Obama is a Islam.

Congratulations on once again introducing irrelevancies.  This thread is not about whether Obama's a Muslim.  That isn't known, but what is known, from his words and actions, is that he's a Muslim sympathizer and advocate.

That said, this isn't about Obama.

[Perd Hapley]

Just kiddin' around, actually. 

[MicroBalrog]

Sophistry.

Statistics.

[dogmush]

And if you're Muslim you have to be involved in some huge movement to bring Jihad to the west. There are no secular, or even moderate Muslims in Russia.

[longeyes]

Statistics.

"Lies, damn lies, and statistics?"

If current trends prevail in Russia--and of course they may not--Russia will become a heavily Muslim-influenced state.  What that ends up meaning we don't know, but we do know quite a bit about the history of Islam.

[roo_ster]

On the contrary. Readily available demographic data - to what extent demographic data from Rosstat can be trusted - speaks of a rising birth rate in every single region of Russia, including areas not populated by Muslims. It's still below death rate, but it is a rising birth rate and a falling death rate.

For some reason I am hesitant to trust data compiled by folks in the pay of and under the influence of bellicose nationalists with an interest in showing how their rule has strengthened Russia.

Statistics.

"Lies, damn lies, and statistics?"

If current trends prevail in Russia--and of course they may not--Russia will become a heavily Muslim-influenced state.  What that ends up meanings we don't know, but we do know quite a bit about the history of Islam.

Ayup.  Even if the MB happy-happy-joy-joy numbers are correct, this is the direction of things to come in Russia.

But, Russia could democratize!  Given that most every Muslim-majority country every to extend the franchise in a meaningful manner has elected Muslim fundies & militants, democracy might not be such a wonderful idea.

[MicroBalrog]

But, Russia could democratize!  Given that most every Muslim-majority country every to extend the franchise in a meaningful manner has elected Muslim fundies & militants, democracy might not be such a wonderful idea.

No.

Only two countries have so far extended franchise in the Arab Spring. One is now lead by a liberal, the other has not yet finished its elections.

[MicroBalrog]

"Lies, damn lies, and statistics?"

If current trends prevail in Russia--and of course they may not--Russia will become a heavily Muslim-influenced state.  What that ends up meaning we don't know, but we do know quite a bit about the history of Islam.

The current trends of growing ethnic Russian birth-rates and falling birth rates in the Muslim Caucasus?

[longeyes]

Look, Islam's not the end-all and be-all of America's problems.  Maybe we agree that our real problems here are at bottom internal.  Frankly, I see Islam as America's "Shadow" and America as their "Shadow."  We are at odds with them for deep cultural reasons that neither society is at this point able to acknowledge fully.  At this point we are both in love with false gods (no, not the ones in our Holy Books) and driven by confused visions.