Marine Veteran critically injured at Occupy Oakland

[Seenterman]

Scott Olsen a Marine, and two tour Iraq veteran was critically injured at the Occupy Oakland protest on Tuesday. It appears he was hit in the face with a 40mm tear gas canister fired by police. Scott was standing roughly 10 feet away from one of the police lines which was on his right side but it appears the gas canister that hit him was fired from directly in front of from an indeterminate distance away. In the video you can see Scott fall between the 10 second mark and the 12 second mark. Its very hard to tell but it appears that a tear gas canister goes off right before he falls.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZLyUK0t0vQ&feature=player_embedded

It was my understanding that tear gas canisters fired from a launcher are supposed to be aimed at the feet of protesters to avoid this type of situation entirely. Any LEO's here that can confirm this?

But wait it gets worse!

Scott is clearly seriously injured, was unconscious, not moving, and laying prone on the street 10 feet away from about 30 cops who offer no assistance. So other protesters run over to assist a downed man and some sadistic cop decided to throw a flash bang into a group of protesters assisting an injured person.  Watch from the 45 second mark on the youtube video, its very clear that a flash bang or some other explosive device ( I've heard it referred to as a one-banger by supposedly a member of the military on another forum) is thrown at protesters assisting an injured man while not a single officer steps up to offer any assistance. Which is actually a violation of dept. policy

e. Any person struck by a round shall be transported to a hospital for observation and any necessary treatment. Ambulance service, if required, shall be ordered per General Order I-4. First aid, when necessary, shall be administered per Training Bulletin III-K.

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/the-oakland-police-absolutely-violated-their-own-crowd-control-policy-2011-10#ixzz1c0VyBMFV

And yet around 30 officers just stand there after a man is knocked unconscious by one of their projectiles and yet does nothing to assist. In fact one of them attempts to delay his treatment and possibly worsen his injuries by throwing a flashbang at him and the people attempting to help him.

What makes this even more outrageous is the Oakland PD has denied using flashbangs or rubber bullets in there press release that night and instead attempted to blame it on the protesters themselves!

Q.Did the Police deploy rubber bullets,flash-bag grenades?

A. No, the loud noises that were heard originated from M-80 explosives thrown at Police by protesters. In addition, Police fired approximately four bean bag rounds at protesters to stop them from throwing dangerous objects at the officers.

http://www.kgoam810.com/Article.asp?id=2319255&spid=

Bull. We have it on multiple videos police using multiple flash bang style grenades.

http://www.businessinsider.com/occupy-oakland-protester-says-this-video-prooves-the-oakland-police-used-illegal-flash-bangs-2011-10

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7r2ETi5C1A

 That officer who got his jolly's off by throwing an explosive devise at people trying to help an injured man needs to be prosecuted an thrown off the police force. Anything less is a travesty. Your take on this guys?

[AZRedhawk44]

Scott is clearly seriously injured, was unconscious, not moving, and laying prone on the street 10 feet away from about 30 cops who offer no assistance. So other protesters run over to assist a downed man and some sadistic cop decided to throw a flash bang into a group of protesters assisting an injured person.  Watch from the 45 second mark on the youtube video, its very clear that a flash bang or some other explosive device ( I've heard it referred to as a one-banger by supposedly a member of the military on another forum) is thrown at protesters assisting an injured man while not a single officer steps up to offer any assistance. Which is actually a violation of dept. policy

I would hope that someone could find a subsection of CA's Good Samaritan Law that protects a 1st Aid Renderer, and that interference with a 1st responder in an obvious emergency situation is tantamount to assaulting the victim himself (which happened anyways).

Nail the cop for assault and battery, or assault with a deadly weapon, or attempted homicide.  Use the Good Sam section to demonstrate exactly how malicious the Enforcer Intent was, and to avoid allowing "years of service" to be exculpatory during sentencing.

[zxcvbob]

"The police are not here to create disorder, they are here to maintain disorder" --Richard Daley, 1968

I can't post in a public forum what I wish would happen.  Use your imagination.  It involves an organized group like The Teamsters with bulletproof vests.

[AZRedhawk44]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7r2ETi5C1A

THAT is a flash-bang.  25 seconds in.

[Seenterman]

Nope. That's M-80's thrown by protesters from behind police lines at the protesters.  
-Oakland PD


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7r2ETi5C1A

At least 8 are thrown in the first minute.  

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

they are these i believe or a similar product
http://combinedsystems.com/csi_mil/TearBallMultiEffect.aspx

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

it was reported earlier that he got nailed with a baton round, has that changed?

[roo_ster]

CS grenade =! Flashbang

Looks like they were tossing CS grenades to me.

Still a REALLY shitty thing to do to folks rendering aid.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

CS grenade =! Flashbang

Looks like they were tossing CS grenades to me.

Still a REALLY *expletive deleted*ty thing to do to folks rendering aid.

ironic ain't it to see the gunnie equivalent of "that shoulder thingy that goes up"

[coppertales]

The question is, why was he there in the first place?  Just because he is a Marine vet, doesn't mean he is not taking part in the demonstration, and if he was, he deserves what he got.....chris3

[BlueStarLizzard]

Hold up. I don't feel like watching all those videos so I need some explaination.

Man is injured by police using unsafe tactics on the crowd. When the injured man is down, some protesters attempt to offer aid but are prevented by something that appears to be flash bangs that are thrown by other protesters from behind the cops so it looks like the cops did it.
Do I have that right?

What the hell is wrong with people?

[kgbsquirrel]

Know the difference between that Marine and the Cop?

If the Marine had done that while he was in Iraq (fired at someone rendering medical aid to an injured person) he'd be charged with a war crime.

...some protesters attempt to offer aid but are prevented by something that appears to be flash bangs that are thrown by other protesters from behind the cops so it looks like the cops did it.
Do I have that right?

Watch the video linked in the OP. You actually see a gas masked riot cop toss the device into the assisting people at 0:35 with a soft underhand throw.

[AZRedhawk44]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqNOPZLw03Q&feature=related

Footage of actual injury in question.

Marine shot in face by some sort of riot appliance.
Crowd responds by attempting to render aid.
Flash-bang or CS applicance tossed in midst of crowd around downed man, crowd blatantly assisting injured (folks kneeling around him, entire crowd focus is around downed man).

[BlueStarLizzard]

The question is, why was he there in the first place?  Just because he is a Marine vet, doesn't mean he is not taking part in the demonstration, and if he was, he deserves what he got.....chris3

I agree that his being a marine has nothing to do with the price of tea in china.

I do not agree with officiers using tools inappropriatly or persons preventing aid to someone who is injuried.

[dogmush]

I gotta say, I lurvs me a good cop bashing, but if the cop in question hadn't seen the guy go down, by the time he flipped the grenade in there all *I* could see on the video was a large yelling crowd.  Th folks rendering aid did so with such gusto as to hide the folks kneeling and the injured guy.

Situational awareness and peripheral vision is often severely hindered by pro masks.  I could actually buy that he was watching the other way (where more pyro was going off) and looked over in time to see a large crowd yelling when he had been ordered to disperse crowds so he tossed some CS over.

Must be my inner CSD coming out.

Also, as other's have said, those are NOT flash bangs.

ETA:  $10 says the initial canister skipped.  I've skipped full on grenades by firing them at too low of an angle, the weapon launched canisters are pretty easy to have that happen with.  remember- Less Lethal, not Non Lethal.

[AZRedhawk44]

I gotta say, I lurvs me a good cop bashing, but if the cop in question hadn't seen the guy go down, by the time he flipped the grenade in there all *I* could see on the video was a large yelling crowd.  Th folks rendering aid did so with such gusto as to hide the folks kneeling and the injured guy.

Situational awareness and peripheral vision is often severely hindered by pro masks.  I could actually buy that he was watching the other way (where more pyro was going off) and looked over in time to see a large crowd yelling when he had been ordered to disperse crowds so he tossed some CS over.

Must be my inner CSD coming out.

Also, as other's have said, those are NOT flash bangs.

So it's okay to huck ordnance without knowing your target or backstop around it, but only if you have a blue uniform?

[Perd Hapley]

The question is, why was he there in the first place?  Just because he is a Marine vet, doesn't mean he is not taking part in the demonstration, and if he was, he deserves what he got.....chris3

Apparently, he would not be the only vet supporting the anti-freedom fighters. If either of these guys actually served.
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2011/10/unreal-neo-nazis-patrol-occupy-phonix-with-ar-15s-media-silent/

[dogmush]

Yeah redhawk.  That's exactly what I said.  it conforms to my pages of arguments about holding cops to standards on this board.  

No, I read an inflammatory post, watched a video, and saw something that with just a smidge of perspective looked like a bad call in combat.  I didn't say the dude was blameless, I just offered another scenario besides:

some sadistic cop decided to throw a flash bang into a group of protesters assisting an injured person.

[BlueStarLizzard]

OK. I watched two videos and, well...

I saw stuff flying from BEHIND the police officers.

I will also say that the idots throwing the smoke canasters back at the cops need a serious brain readjustment.

[Seenterman]

The question is, why was he there in the first place?  Just because he is a Marine vet, doesn't mean he is not taking part in the demonstration, and if he was, he deserves what he got.....chris3

What? Are you serious? Join the military to "defend our freedoms" get injured by police officers for exercising those rights at a non violent protest and he deserves it? Do you support critically injuring people for exercising other Constitutional rights or just people you disagree with?

Man is injured by police using unsafe tactics on the crowd. When the injured man is down, some protesters attempt to offer aid but are prevented by something that appears to be flash bangs that are thrown by other protesters from behind the cops so it looks like the cops did it.
Do I have that right?

Umm. . . I was being sarcastic. Watch this video its only 1:08 minutes long.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZLyUK0t0vQ&feature=player_embedded

Man is injured by a police projectile, is on the ground unconscious for a few seconds before a few protesters run over to render aid (even though there are 30 police officers standing 10 feet away who do nothing violating dept. policy), officer looks over the situation and decides throwing a flash bang CS grenade at the group rendering aid to the downed man is a good idea. Seems like a calculated move by sadistic person who has no place in a police dept.

 

ironic ain't it to see the gunnie equivalent of "that shoulder thingy that goes up"

Well we can't all be as well versed with every new piece of ordnance the police has, but it doesn't change anything. Its still an explosive device thrown at an injured man and the people trying to assist him for no reason.

[Perd Hapley]

I will also say that the idots throwing the smoke canasters back at the cops need a serious brain readjustment.

Hold on just a second. You start handing out serious brain readjustments to these hippies, and the whole movement will collapse.

Now if you had said they had a problem with their brains being missing, I'm sure we could all agree on that.

[Perd Hapley]

Its still an explosive device thrown at an injured man and the people trying to assist him for no reason.

Are you calling a CS "grenade" an explosive device, or are you talking about something else?

[kgbsquirrel]

Dogmush, curious as to your potential scenario, I went back and slowly backed up the video from the throwing of the device to see if the cop tossing said device had been looking away. I found that he was standing at the line, facing the guy who was pegged in the face while he was sprawled out on the ground with no one around him. The cop continued to remain facing towards the injured person as the first folks converged and kneeled down by the injured person and then the rest of the crowd formed around them. I do not believe there to be any veracity to the hypothesis that the police officer was unaware of the injured person and the intent of the crowd (who at that point could be classified as first-responders) to render assistance.

[BlueStarLizzard]

Hold on just a second. You start handing out serious brain readjustments to these hippies, and the whole movement will collapse.

Now if you had said they had a problem with their brains being missing, I'm sure we could all agree on that.

I wish their brains were just missing. Then we could go out and find them and give them back. Then they would be able to actually be funtional and work rather then sitting around singing kumbayah and getting in everyones way.

[AZRedhawk44]

Yeah redhawk.  That's exactly what I said.  it conforms to my pages of arguments about holding cops to standards on this board. 

No, I read an inflammatory post, watched a video, and saw something that with just a smidge of perspective looked like a bad call in combat.  I didn't say the dude was blameless, I just offered another scenario besides:

Watch this vid:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqNOPZLw03Q&feature=related

Footage of actual marine injured, from the ground, ~50 feet away.

Watch the slow-mo highlights.

Marine is down and out on the ground for 10-20 seconds, motionless.  Cops do zilch.  Crowd asks for cops to do something.  Cops do nothing.  Crowd moves in.  Gentle lob of CS/FB/whatever from front row of cops, 15-20 feet away.

but if the cop in question hadn't seen the guy go down, by the time he flipped the grenade in there all *I* could see on the video was a large yelling crowd.  Th folks rendering aid did so with such gusto as to hide the folks kneeling and the injured guy.

Situational awareness and peripheral vision is often severely hindered by pro masks. I could actually buy that he was watching the other way (where more pyro was going off) and looked over in time to see a large crowd yelling when he had been ordered to disperse crowds so he tossed some CS over.

Theory doesn't jive with on the ground footage.

In fact, you can see the guy with grenade launcher raised to eye level aim, continue to scan the crowd with eye-level aim.  That's probably our "shooter."  Another guy tosses a CS/FB grenade when the crowd is congregated and focused around the down man.