Author Topic: Boaters Rescued After Five Months at Sea  (Read 12408 times)

Ben

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Boaters Rescued After Five Months at Sea
« on: October 26, 2017, 01:59:15 PM »
So I'm glad they (and the dogs!) made it through okay, and that they were well-prepared with food and water. However, I'm puzzled that two people so well-prepared on the one side apparently dropped the ball on comms.

The story might be missing some information, but EPIRB? Sat phone? Either should have gotten them noticed. I know sat phones can be finicky, but at some point in five months they should have been able to get a signal, even just to put a text message in the buffer. I understand EPIRB response can also be "interesting" in international waters (maybe Dogmush or DM1333 can chime in), but between those two devices, they should have been able to make contact.

Also hard to tell from the story, but it sounds like they putzed around for nearly two months before they decided they needed help, so maybe they simply never thought they were in danger or great distress, though that wouldn't explain the apparent calls for help on the radio.

Anyway, again, good on them for covering the life sustaining preps, but the comms has me puzzled.


http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/10/26/navy-rescues-mariners-dogs-stranded-in-pacific-ocean-for-5-months.html
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Scout26

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Re: Boaters Rescued After Five Months at Sea
« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2017, 02:12:08 PM »
Motor breaks down, they tried to sail their way there.  Since the ship didn't sink, the EPIRB never had cause to go off.

And since it sounds like they were well outside (~900 miles) outside of normal shipping lanes, plus may not have been on right freq's.

Quote
"The two continued the calls daily, but they were not close enough to other vessels or shore stations to receive them," the Navy said
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Ben

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Re: Boaters Rescued After Five Months at Sea
« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2017, 02:21:58 PM »
Motor breaks down, they tried to sail their way there.  Since the ship didn't sink, the EPIRB never had cause to go off.

You can activate an EPIRB any old time you want. :)
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RevDisk

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Re: Boaters Rescued After Five Months at Sea
« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2017, 02:57:28 PM »

I'm more of a land guy, but I think anyone who goes out of sight of land without an EPIRB is insane.
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Re: Boaters Rescued After Five Months at Sea
« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2017, 03:46:16 PM »
Epirb has a manual activated switch....and the USCG gets notice of all activations for US registered devices IIRC
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Re: Boaters Rescued After Five Months at Sea
« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2017, 07:03:30 PM »
Interesting life that no one was particularly worried to not hear from these girls for that long.
AKA Navy Joe   

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RoadKingLarry

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Re: Boaters Rescued After Five Months at Sea
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2017, 07:10:05 PM »
I'd like to hear the backstory on this one. My first question would be as to the experience level prior to setting off.
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Re: Boaters Rescued After Five Months at Sea
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2017, 07:40:35 PM »
A 416 Mhz EBIRB is pretty reliable, anywhere on earth.  The are in polar orbits so there aren't any high lat dead zones, and there are enough in the constellation that the dwell time is 4 hours max.  You WILL be seen by one inside of 4 hours.

Sat phones depend on the sats you're using but I find them to be pretty reliable.

Every commercial EPIRB can be manually activated, there's no need to sink your boat.  That's actually prefered: Turn it on and wait on the boat for someone to find you.

Depending on the size of the vessel and paranoia level of the "mariners", it's not uncommon to see vessels with VHF, and MF/HF coms but no sat coms.  Sat com is still pretty pricey, and MF/HF usually works pretty well.  Most commercial ships are still equipped with, and required by international law to monitor, the MF/HF distress bands, but if folks aren't familiar with the radio system, they can be tricky to get to work in a useful fashion.  Pushing the big red "distress" button will send out a signal, but if you don't include useful information lots of folks will just clear it unless it's real close.  You have to request an MF/HF relay, which will get it to a shore based Rescue Station.

It sounds like they needed a better "Go to Hell" plan.

Ben

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Re: Boaters Rescued After Five Months at Sea
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2017, 07:47:31 PM »
Interesting life that no one was particularly worried to not hear from these girls for that long.

https://youtu.be/8CVbku6nxhU?t=24
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Ben

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Re: Boaters Rescued After Five Months at Sea
« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2017, 08:02:05 PM »
A 416 Mhz EBIRB is pretty reliable, anywhere on earth.  The are in polar orbits so there aren't any high lat dead zones, and there are enough in the constellation that the dwell time is 4 hours max.  You WILL be seen by one inside of 4 hours.

Not sure if you were responding to what I mentioned in my OP, and I should have used clearer language. When I mentioned EPIRB "response" in International waters, I was actually referring to the human response versus the tech. I had heard that in some parts of the world, where the response may be handed to "the locals" as it were (AKA the SAR point of contact), that not all governments go to town the way we do when the EPIRB goes off, nor have as good of SAR capabilities.

Pretty much every NOAA met satellite that goes up now has a SAR component to the payload. We also work with other countries to put the capabilities in some of their sats. I have no idea how everything meshes together between them and us.
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castle key

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Re: Boaters Rescued After Five Months at Sea
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2017, 08:27:39 PM »
"A three hour tour....."
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RoadKingLarry

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Re: Boaters Rescued After Five Months at Sea
« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2017, 08:29:24 PM »
There will be some interesting commentary on the sailing boards about this one.

https://forums.sailboatowners.com/index.php?threads/5000-miles-off-course.188128/
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Re: Boaters Rescued After Five Months at Sea
« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2017, 08:44:48 PM »
So I'm glad they (and the dogs!) made it through okay, and that they were well-prepared with food and water. However, I'm puzzled that two people so well-prepared on the one side apparently dropped the ball on comms.

The story might be missing some information, but EPIRB? Sat phone? Either should have gotten them noticed. I know sat phones can be finicky, but at some point in five months they should have been able to get a signal, even just to put a text message in the buffer. I understand EPIRB response can also be "interesting" in international waters (maybe Dogmush or DM1333 can chime in), but between those two devices, they should have been able to make contact.

Also hard to tell from the story, but it sounds like they putzed around for nearly two months before they decided they needed help, so maybe they simply never thought they were in danger or great distress, though that wouldn't explain the apparent calls for help on the radio.

Anyway, again, good on them for covering the life sustaining preps, but the comms has me puzzled.


They apparently also didn't have very good navigation equipment. They were found thousands of miles from where they wanted to go. GPS failed? If I were planning a long ocean voyage like that, I think I would at least buy a basic sextant and take a course in basic celestial navigation as a backup to electronics. Dead reckoning can only take you so far ...
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RoadKingLarry

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Re: Boaters Rescued After Five Months at Sea
« Reply #13 on: October 26, 2017, 08:59:30 PM »
After careful consideration my initial preliminary conclusion is that these two were clueless.
I'll wait on more information before I can definitively decided if they are actual *expletive deleted*ing morons.
 
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

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Ben

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Re: Boaters Rescued After Five Months at Sea
« Reply #14 on: October 26, 2017, 09:01:05 PM »
They apparently also didn't have very good navigation equipment. They were found thousands of miles from where they wanted to go. GPS failed? If I were planning a long ocean voyage like that, I think I would at least buy a basic sextant and take a course in basic celestial navigation as a backup to electronics. Dead reckoning can only take you so far ...

If they each had a smartphone, they had at least two spare GPS units. Not sure what their battery charging capability was once the engine died. If they skipped getting an EPIRB, they may have blown off getting a solar charger or similar.
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Ben

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Re: Boaters Rescued After Five Months at Sea
« Reply #15 on: October 26, 2017, 09:07:21 PM »
After careful consideration my initial preliminary conclusion is that these two were clueless.

I would have gone with clueless right off the bat, but like I said, the food and the desalinator* threw me. You know enough and are prepped enough to get a desalinator, but not enough to get an EPIRB - even just a personal EPIRB? Even the cheapest desalinators cost more than an average EPIRB. Perplexing.


* I am assuming the reporters meant desalinator when they said "water purifier". Otherwise that boat had a few pallets of bottled water onboard.  :laugh:
« Last Edit: October 26, 2017, 10:23:19 PM by Ben »
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dogmush

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Re: Boaters Rescued After Five Months at Sea
« Reply #16 on: October 26, 2017, 09:22:31 PM »
If they each had a smartphone, they had at least two spare GPS units. Not sure what their battery charging capability was once the engine died. If they skipped getting an EPIRB, they may have blown off getting a solar charger or similar.

You can see the both a wind generator and solar panel on the boat in the video.  When becalmed, you can spin a wind generator manually and charge batteries. (Go ahead, ask me how I know).

Ben, an EPIRB, even in the sticks, if it's continuously going off, will get something out to look at it in a reasonable time frame.

If the RCC (rescue coordination center) can't get a local .gov out there, they'll ask commercial shipping to swing by, or ping the big countries to see if there's a .mil asset nearby. I've been diverted twice for that. No one really says no to a "Can you go check this EPIRB?" request.

I'm going to say they didn't trigger one. If they had, someone would have gone looking, and we'd be talking about the failed search.

RoadKingLarry

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Re: Boaters Rescued After Five Months at Sea
« Reply #17 on: October 27, 2017, 12:16:12 AM »
I would have gone with clueless right off the bat, but like I said, the food and the desalinator* threw me. You know enough and are prepped enough to get a desalinator, but not enough to get an EPIRB - even just a personal EPIRB? Even the cheapest desalinators cost more than an average EPIRB. Perplexing.


* I am assuming the reporters meant desalinator when they said "water purifier". Otherwise that boat had a few pallets of bottled water onboard.  :laugh:

Pretty good odds the water maker came with the boat. Most midrange units have a manual pump mode.
I'd still like to hear the whole story.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

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Re: Boaters Rescued After Five Months at Sea
« Reply #18 on: October 27, 2017, 12:19:54 AM »
I would have gone with clueless right off the bat, but like I said, the food and the desalinator* threw me. You know enough and are prepped enough to get a desalinator, but not enough to get an EPIRB - even just a personal EPIRB? Even the cheapest desalinators cost more than an average EPIRB. Perplexing.

Not sure what the actual reliability of an EPIRB itself is; doesn't matter how good the system is if your transmitter's broke.  Not having an HF radio on a sailboat seems kind of odd to me; you've got the perfect place to string a pretty big antenna, but maybe they hadn't previously been concerned with long range comms.

Food doesn't seem all that unusual if one or both of them lived on the boat.  Could be they island-hopped Hawaii from time to time, and lived on the boat at various ports; bulk purchased storable foods are a fairly cheap way to "camp" while out sightseeing, and why not store all the extra on the boat?

RoadKingLarry

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Re: Boaters Rescued After Five Months at Sea
« Reply #19 on: October 27, 2017, 12:26:48 AM »
Even my 40 year old ketch has provisions to use the triatic stay (cable between main and mizzen masts) as an HF antenna. Currently only has a VHF installed. Also SSB is pretty popular among cruisers these days.
I'm betting these two were pretty new to sailing and really didn't know what the hell they were doing.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

Samuel Adams

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Re: Boaters Rescued After Five Months at Sea
« Reply #20 on: October 27, 2017, 07:12:09 AM »
They apparently also didn't have very good navigation equipment. They were found thousands of miles from where they wanted to go. GPS failed? If I were planning a long ocean voyage like that, I think I would at least buy a basic sextant and take a course in basic celestial navigation as a backup to electronics. Dead reckoning can only take you so far ...

The easiest thing would be a secondary GPS.  Hell even just some general awareness....having an idea which direction to sail to the closest continent.  Which would probably just mean going E from where they were.

For once I agree with Joe....
If they lived on the boat they were probably prepared with food already, probably were able to fish a little, and the desalinator is pretty common on ocean going sail boats, especially liveaboards.
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Re: Boaters Rescued After Five Months at Sea
« Reply #21 on: October 27, 2017, 08:56:50 AM »
900 miles southeast of Japan during the peak of hurricane season.  They got lucky.

Hurricanes in the western Pacific ocean this year.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Pacific_typhoon_season#/media/File:2017_Pacific_typhoon_season_summary.png
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Ben

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Re: Boaters Rescued After Five Months at Sea
« Reply #22 on: October 27, 2017, 09:53:58 AM »
Pretty good odds the water maker came with the boat. Most midrange units have a manual pump mode.

I did not know that. All the bigger boats, around 50' and up I was on at work had a built-in system, but I wouldn't have expected that, even a manual system, on the average sailboat.

On the food, obviously we can only go by what is reported, but a year's worth of food seems like something you plan for, not just have on hand because you're living on the boat. That's a lot of space to take up if you're just hanging out at the harbor or one of the other Hawaiian islands harbors, where food and drink are plentiful.

It will certainly be interesting to get the whole backstory here.
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Boaters Rescued After Five Months at Sea
« Reply #23 on: October 27, 2017, 01:06:09 PM »
If they each had a smartphone, they had at least two spare GPS units. Not sure what their battery charging capability was once the engine died. If they skipped getting an EPIRB, they may have blown off getting a solar charger or similar.

I have a GPS for my car, so I keep GPS turned off on my cell phone for whatever minimal level of privacy that offers. So I've never looked at it. Does it give the position as latitude and longitude, or as street address?
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Ben

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Re: Boaters Rescued After Five Months at Sea
« Reply #24 on: October 27, 2017, 01:26:05 PM »
I have a GPS for my car, so I keep GPS turned off on my cell phone for whatever minimal level of privacy that offers. So I've never looked at it. Does it give the position as latitude and longitude, or as street address?

Lat/long. Tons of apps, including free, so there would be no excuse for them not to have something on their phones. I used to keep the Navionics West Coast charting app on my phone at work so I wouldn't have to bug the boat driver all the time when I was working in the aft lab on one our smaller boats that didn't have mirrored nav monitors in the back. It gave much of the same info he had up front, so he didn't have to listen to me ask, "Are we there yet?" every five minutes.  :laugh:
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