Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: freakazoid on October 02, 2017, 04:05:29 AM
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https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/10/02/us/las-vegas-shooting.html
Two civilians dead, 24 injured. One shooter killed. I've been reading there is a possible second. What sounded like actual full-auto fire. Guy was shooting from a third floor balcony at the Mandala Bay Casino.
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And then there's this, http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/isis-video-featuring-las-vegas-strip-viewed-credible-threat-article-1.3196042
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Just saw a video on FB from when the shooting started. Full-auto for sure and could well be multiple shooters.
Seen a report where a shooter is down. "Official" reports at this time is 2 dead and 100+ wounded. Seen reports with as many as 20+ dead and 100+ wounded.
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News conference with Vegas sheriff reported 20+ dead 100+ injured.
Reports are of 1 shooter from 32nd floor of hotel overlooking concert venue.
Shooter is dead, no details on ID or motive yet.
ETA: Just watched a video clip, sounded distinctly like full auto weapons fire.
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:'(
I'm hearing that yesterday there was also some sort of attack in Canada and France.
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Short clip here, https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/914735357408808960/pu/vid/720x1280/nLaK9UEK0mzBJrh5.mp4 Actually kind of sounds like maybe a bumpfire stock. Seems to change how fast it's shooting, or possibly weird echo effects. Or maybe even that's it just sounds like that because the shooter is spraying back and fourth, meaning sometimes it's pointed away from camera person and other times not.
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Hearing two different names for the shooter. A Stephen Paddock and a Geary Danley, hearing more evidence on this Geary Danley. Guys facebook page that got posted up is full of leftist loonacy. Also apparently looking for his girlfriend, an "asian 4'11", named Marilou Danley.
The place that the shooting seemed to be directed at was a country music concert.
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Fox now reporting 50 dead, 200+ injured.
Saw some graphics of.the scene. Fish in a barrel.
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Terrible tragedy. My heart goes out to all the victims and their families.
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Hearing whisperings that the shooter is connected to Antifa.
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Pretty much nothing being put public on this guy so far besides his name.
Surprising.
And the videos you can clearly hear his weapon is FA.
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50+ dead, 200+ wounded.
Sounds like a lone whacko.
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Sure, country music concert. High concentration of deplorables.
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Pretty much nothing being put public on this guy so far besides his name.
Surprising.
And the videos you can clearly hear his weapon is FA.
Not to make it all political, but because it probably doesn't fit the narrative of most of the media and gun control crowd.
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Daily Mail is naming him as Stephen Paddock, age 64.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4939872/Active-shooter-reported-Las-Vegas-Mandalay-Bay-Resort.html
Doesn't sound like an Islamist. Could well be Antifa, I suppose.
Not that a handgun would have been of any use against a guy with a machine gun on the 32nd floor of a building across the street but ... does anyone know if the concert was a gun-free zone?
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Most likely yes, can't remember the last time I saw a concert that wasn't, with the exception of some open air community event type ones without a security reference.
I just heard on the news apparently the reason they figured out the room was that he set off the smoke alarm in his room. That's alota ammo. Also that he had multiple guns, shooting platforms set up, and security video set up to monitor for police moving on his room.
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Most likely yes, can't remember the last time I saw a concert that wasn't, with the exception of some open air community event type ones without a security reference.
I just heard on the news apparently the reason they figured out the room was that he set off the smoke alarm in his room. That's alota ammo. Also that he had multiple guns, shooting platforms set up, and security video set up to monitor for police moving on his room.
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I'd be amazed if that was the case - for a start you have all the people who would be able to see him and give a rough location (floor and side of building if not the actual room), then you would have the people in the rooms nearby who would probably be able to narrow it down further (ie: "there is a guy in the room next to me who is either shooting off a load of rounds or you really need to get a bloke to fix that bed in the morning").
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Daily Mail is naming him as Stephen Paddock, age 64.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4939872/Active-shooter-reported-Las-Vegas-Mandalay-Bay-Resort.html
Doesn't sound like an Islamist. Could well be Antifa, I suppose.
Not that a handgun would have been of any use against a guy with a machine gun on the 32nd floor of a building across the street but ... does anyone know if the concert was a gun-free zone?
City has pretty strict gun control and weapon laws. I checked into it when we took a trip to Vegas a few years back.
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Just saw one report that raised the number of wounded to 400+.
Yikes!
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Just saw one report that raised the number of wounded to 400+.
Yikes!
I imagine there were panic injuries mixed in, people getting trampled in the melee.
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Now it's sounding like the shooter was this Paddock guy. Sounds like he is connected to the other guy somehow, like roommate or something. And that asian lady apparently was kicked out of the concert at one point. http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/woman-chillingly-said-everyone-going-11274113 She is also apparently in custody now.
Heard the shooter had set up multiple cameras to watch for cops coming, and had like 6 rifles ready to go.
I hear that the news is already sowing the seeds for pushing anti-gun legislation. Apparently had some ABC guy talking about how easy it is to convert guns to full-auto.
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Don't know if this is one of the troll Antifa groups, apparently this guy is also from Melbourne.
(https://i.imgur.com/9tSgfCr.jpg)
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Don't know if this is one of the troll Antifa groups, apparently this guy is also from Melbourne.
(https://i.imgur.com/9tSgfCr.jpg)
Keep in mind, a number of those alleged antifa groups are indeed trolls or false flag.
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Heard on the radio that the security fence for LAS bordered the venue and the mass of humanity rushing to get out penetrated the fence and people were running around on the runways/tarmacs and LAS had to suspend operations.
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The Daily Sun quotes the perpetrator's brother as 'just a normal guy who must have snapped'. No known political or religious affiliation as per the brother.
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The Daily Sun quotes the perpetrator's brother as 'just a normal guy who must have snapped'. No known political or religious affiliation as per the brother.
I don't want to say a lot about this myself just right now because of the magnitude of the event and the overwhelming reporting on it that may be 70% or more inaccurate. I would only say that "snapped" is something one might attribute to someone who grabs a couple of guns (or bombs or a car or...) and goes out without any real planning.
This is something that I think would take a significant amount of planning. Not only to get the room with a vantage point, but getting the (reported) ten or so long guns and ammo into the room, plus setting up a surveillance system (as reported), plus having a means to take out the hotel room window. Those things are tough. I would submit he did some planning.
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A little research shows that the concert was being held at a location across the street from the Luxor. Pull up Google Maps and you can see the stage. It has a green roof and a couple of sets of bleachers in front of it. Looks like it is about 400-500 yards from the Mandalay. Looks like there is very little cover in the area, fenced in on all four sides, with a 5'-6' brick wall between the venue and Las Vegas Blvd. Proverbial fish in a barrel. Add in a heavy crowd, and it's no wonder casualties are high.
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The antifa thing has 0 credibility. A group in Australia claiming responsibility?
antifa isn't isis...yet.
Posted by: Ben
Insert Quote
Quote from: MillCreek on Today at 09:32:57 AM
The Daily Sun quotes the perpetrator's brother as 'just a normal guy who must have snapped'. No known political or religious affiliation as per the brother.
I don't want to say a lot about this myself just right now because of the magnitude of the event and the overwhelming reporting on it that may be 70% or more inaccurate. I would only say that "snapped" is something one might attribute to someone who grabs a couple of guns (or bombs or a car or...) and goes out without any real planning.
This is something that I think would take a significant amount of planning. Not only to get the room with a vantage point, but getting the (reported) ten or so long guns and ammo into the room, plus setting up a surveillance system (as reported), plus having a means to take out the hotel room window. Those things are tough. I would submit he did some planning.
People can snap and then plan some insane *expletive deleted*it.
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I don't want to say a lot about this myself just right now because of the magnitude of the event and the overwhelming reporting on it that may be 70% or more inaccurate. I would only say that "snapped" is something one might attribute to someone who grabs a couple of guns (or bombs or a car or...) and goes out without any real planning.
This is something that I think would take a significant amount of planning. Not only to get the room with a vantage point, but getting the (reported) ten or so long guns and ammo into the room, plus setting up a surveillance system (as reported), plus having a means to take out the hotel room window. Those things are tough. I would submit he did some planning.
Agreed on the planning. I'm guessing that getting a room facing the strip, especially during such a big event, took some advance reservations and some significant funds. Hauling guns and ammo into the room probably took some effort, but given the amount of luggage I saw being hauled around by some people in Vegas, it wouldn't be impossible. The allegations of surveillance gear around the room, now that raises an eyebrow. Most of the Vegas hotels have pretty sophisticated security, even outside of the casinos. And, getting it set up in the hallways with no one seeing/questioning him, that took some luck, some money to buy people off, or as Ben suggests more planning.
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The antifa thing has 0 credibility. A group in Australia claiming responsibility?
antifa isn't isis...yet.
People can snap and then plan some insane *expletive deleted*it.
Melbourne, FL
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Everything is speculation at this point, except for my sympathy and condolences to those killed or wounded and their families.
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Melbourne, FL
Speculation I said I wasn't going to engage in, but apparently the shooter owned property there. On the other hand, it seems, excepting all the 40something year old "students" at Berkeley, antifa seems to cater to the young. The shooter could certainly end up having similar viewpoints to antifa, but I don't think there's a lot of old folks walking around in black clothes and masks. I'm curious to see what the separation of newscycle wheat from chaff is in the next 24 hours.
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How old was the Softball Shooter in DC ??
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How old was the Softball Shooter in DC ??
Old, but not an antifa member.
A report on the TV just said LE reported that the distance was ~1700 feet, or around 560 yards. Definitely "spray and pray" range, though with a mass of people like that, once he found his range, I guess it didn't matter much. No report on if the "1700 feet" was to the middle of the crowd, edge, or what.
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Associated Press (https://apnews.com/a3554c3250644262af3f5b94d57b1def?utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=AP) says ISIS is claiming the shooter converted to Islam months ago. Take it with a large grain of salt.
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A report on the TV just said LE reported that the distance was ~1700 feet, or around 560 yards. Definitely "spray and pray" range, though with a mass of people like that, once he found his range, I guess it didn't matter much. No report on if the "1700 feet" was to the middle of the crowd, edge, or what.
Elevated position, 500 yards or so, full-auto, no return fire. Fish in a barrel.
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I'm sure I'm not the first to say this about mass killings, but here goes. To the extent the killers' actions are understandable, perhaps they're best understood as today's fashionable form of suicide. Carried out only by people so angry that they wish their last act on earth to be a giant, bloody middle finger extended in the face of the world that disappointed them.
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At that range, given the shooter's elevation and size of the crowd, the difference between POI and POA would be inconsequential. Aim for crowd center and that's that. The poor bastards never stood a chance. May the SOB rot in hell for what he did.
Brad
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=|
My heart goes out to those wounded and killed by this madman.
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Not letting a good tragedy go to waste, I bring you Hillary Clinton's tweets. Stay classy you *expletive deleted*ing bitch. https://mobile.twitter.com/HillaryClinton?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor
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The crowd fled at the sound of gunshots. Imagine the deaths if the shooter had a silencer, which the NRA wants to make easier to get.
Our grief isn't enough. We can and must put politics aside, stand up to the NRA, and work together to try to stop this from happening again.
Because if the shooter had a "silencer," this would have been so much worse. Nobody would think to flee an area as people around them erupted with bloody holes, only the sounds of gunfire in the distance could warrant evacuation.
Sure, laws restricting machine gun possession didn't stop this. But pay no attention, laws about suppressor possession have magical preventative powers. ;/
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60+ year old white guy. Retired to Vegas. Has lots of guns, apparently knows how to use them. Odds are the murderer was a conservative/republican.
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60+ year old white guy. Retired to Vegas. Has lots of guns, apparently knows how to use them. Odds are the murderer was a conservative/republican.
Because conservatives want to massacre people at country music festival? That's idiotic. :mad:
We don't know his motives yet
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You would think that after taking sniper fire in Bosnia she would know a suppressor does nothing to stop the crack of bullets going past you. My only experience with such is pulling pit duty for high power. It's a noise that makes you glad for all that dirt overhead.
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60+ year old white guy. Retired to Vegas. Has lots of guns, apparently knows how to use them. Odds are the murderer was a conservative/republican.
Except the guys associations are leftists.
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Except the guys associations are leftists.
You might be thinking of the Asian lady's husband. The shooter, so far, has been identified as another individual.
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Something tells me if the dude was a die hard Republican who committed this atrocity wearing a make America great again cap we'd have known it in five seconds flat and would be hearing the fact non stop.
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Something tells me if the dude was a die hard Republican who committed this atrocity wearing a make America great again cap we'd have known it in five seconds flat and would be hearing the fact non stop.
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One has only to compare the news coverage of the two church shootings to know that you are right.
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Something tells me if the dude was a die hard Republican who committed this atrocity wearing a make America great again cap we'd have known it in five seconds flat and would be hearing the fact non stop.
I'm surprised this narrative isn't already being spewed as fake news by the MSM. They've done it before.
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Something tells me if the dude was a die hard Republican who committed this atrocity wearing a make America great again cap we'd have known it in five seconds flat and would be hearing the fact non stop.
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I have a hard time imaging a die hard Republican shooting up a country music fest. So far, he hasn't tripped off... anything. No criminal background.
Death toll is up to 58, 406 injured.
Mrs Clinton commented: "Our grief isn't enough. We can and must put politics aside, stand up to the NRA, and work together to try to stop this from happening again."
I'm kinda in awe of someone in one sentence declaring we must put aside politics to make a political statement.
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Mrs Clinton commented: "Our grief isn't enough. We can and must put politics aside, stand up to the NRA, and work together to try to stop this from happening again."
I'm kinda in awe of someone in one sentence declaring we must put aside politics to make a political statement.
Sadly, that's pretty common. It's always helpful to frame the opposition as "just being political," and framing your own ideas as common sense, or working together, or what-have-you.
What did surprise me today, was listening to NPR coverage of this. They interviewed the guy who wrote Gunfight (https://www.amazon.com/Gunfight-Battle-Over-Right-America/dp/0393345831), and he pointed out a couple of times that full-auto weaponry is very highly-regulated. Good for NPR and Mr. Winkler.
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I have a hard time imaging a die hard Republican shooting up a country music fest. So far, he hasn't tripped off... anything. No criminal background.
Death toll is up to 58, 406 injured.
Mrs Clinton commented: "Our grief isn't enough. We can and must put politics aside, stand up to the NRA, and work together to try to stop this from happening again."
I'm kinda in awe of someone in one sentence declaring we must put aside politics to make a political statement.
Kind of like Elizabeth Warren being heartsick for about 30 seconds.
https://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2017/10/02/heap-big-bs-heartsick-elizabeth-warren-cant-wait-to-exploit-and-politicize-lv-shooting/ (https://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2017/10/02/heap-big-bs-heartsick-elizabeth-warren-cant-wait-to-exploit-and-politicize-lv-shooting/)
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Sadly, that's pretty common. It's always helpful to frame the opposition as "just being political," and framing your own ideas as common sense, or working together, or what-have-you.
What did surprise me today, was listening to NPR coverage of this. They interviewed the guy who wrote Gunfight (https://www.amazon.com/Gunfight-Battle-Over-Right-America/dp/0393345831), and he pointed out a couple of times that full-auto weaponry is very highly-regulated. Good for NPR and Mr. Winkler.
Caught that on NPR as well.
Pretty much nothing being put public on this guy so far besides his name.
Surprising.
And the videos you can clearly hear his weapon is FA.
Listening to it... AR or similar, illegally converted to FA. Guy was mag dumping, then switching to new rifle rather than reloading.
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Reportedly, the police have confirmed an automatic weapon was used, but that may just be reporter-misunderstanding. We'll see.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/02/us/las-vegas-shooter/index.html
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"The official said initial reports suggest at least one rifle was altered to function as an automatic weapon."
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"The official said initial reports suggest at least one rifle was altered to function as an automatic weapon."
Exactly. Could be a slide-fire stock, binary trigger, etc. Could be something more involved. If it is an off-the-shelf device, I guess they'll be run out of business.
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A clip I listened to had a varying rate of fire like he was using a trigger crank.
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I wonder how many Democrat or non-political country music fans (whether or not they were at the festival) will take note of hateful comments about the victims just being gun-toting Trump voters.
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I wonder how many Democrat or non-political country music fans (whether or not they were at the festival) will take note of hateful comments about the victims just being gun-toting Trump voters.
I pretty much work from the assumption that everybody knows by now that the "other side" red/blue... whatever you want to call it, hates the other. And wherever there's coexistence, it's because of "don't ask don't tell", or people simply not discussing it.
Usually, if this kind of thing has an impact at all, it'll "firm up the base" but not actually make anybody switch sides, so to speak.
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I am trying to work off the assumption that any facts I hear in the first 48 hours are suspect and need to be verified.
However, I am curious about the weapons used. I agree that it may not be full auto. The only sound bytes I heard were the first series of shots that sounded like someone dumping a 60 or 100 round mag or belt fed. My only frame of reference is using a slide fire stock.
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I wonder how many Democrat or non-political country music fans (whether or not they were at the festival) will take note of hateful comments about the victims just being gun-toting Trump voters.
... like one of the lawyers for CBS?
http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2017/10/02/top-cbs-lawyer-no-sympathy-for-vegas-vics-probably-republicans.html
https://twitter.com/TheBrandonMorse/status/914885815901319168/photo/1
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I am trying to work off the assumption that any facts I hear in the first 48 hours are suspect and need to be verified.
However, I am curious about the weapons used. I agree that it may not be full auto. The only sound bytes I heard were the first series of shots that sounded like someone dumping a 60 or 100 round mag or belt fed. My only frame of reference is using a slide fire stock.
Information on weapons is starting to come out. Obviously some erroneous stuff in the article. The "purchased in CA" was of interest to me. I don't believe that would be legal, unless we find out he had CA residency, but then I'm not sure he could have legally purchased from a gun store in NV (I'm not familiar with NV laws).
It sounds like maybe he had at least some the rifles setup so he could just drop an empty and then go to the next one. That would explain the 5.56 and 7.62.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/10/02/las-vegas-shooting-killer-bought-more-than-30-weapons-source-says.html
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http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/02/us/las-vegas-attack-stephen-paddock-trnd/index.html
Mr. Paddock was a retired accountant who could afford to play poker at $100/hand. His brother continues to insist that Mr. Paddock had no ties to terror or hate groups and is mystified that he did this.
I hope the police find some notes on his computer, or a social media presence or something that gives some insight as to why Mr. Paddock did this. Because the initial reports sure make it sound like he was a retired middle-aged Everyman.
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Alright, I am finally ready for a ban. A ban on journalists trying to explain firearms, or the laws which regulate them.
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Listen to the rate of fire varying on this recording and tell me he wasn't using a trigger crank - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COxEmUXp0J4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jif4Wo0LDX8
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A good friend of mine has a good friend who is a recently-retired senior command officer in the Las Vegas PD. The retiree still lives in Las Vegas, so I'm sure he has some inside skinny. Here's what my friend said his friend reported:
The gunman had ten (10) AR-15s in the room, and more than 5,000 rounds of ammo. High capacity magazines were mounted in most of them and there were at least 14 more such magazines in the room. Most rifles were equipped with bump-fire devices. He also had a hammer (to break the window’s glass, windows in Las Vegas hotels do not open more than a few centimeters) and a S&W .38 Special revolver, which he used to shoot himself at the same time the SWAT officers entered his room and shot him.
LVPD was very lucky, it could take them hours to figure out where the shooter was, in the mean time this bastard could have shot thousands of people. But all that smoke from all those rounds he fired, triggered the smoke alarm in his room, and that’s how they found him. He was dead less than 10 minutes after the first shot was fired.
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Listen to the rate of fire varying on this recording and tell me he wasn't using a trigger crank - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COxEmUXp0J4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jif4Wo0LDX8
Given the range 500+yards, it sounds like he's swinging the guns from side to side, sweeping the area with fire. So your get a Doppler effect that makes it sound like the rate of fire is changing.
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Given the range 500+yards, it sounds like he's swinging the guns from side to side, sweeping the area with fire. So your get a Doppler effect that makes it sound like the rate of fire is changing.
I would assume so.
And expect hard core ban calls for bump fire stocks etc.
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A good friend of mine has a good friend who is a recently-retired senior command officer in the Las Vegas PD. The retiree still lives in Las Vegas, so I'm sure he has some inside skinny. Here's what my friend said his friend reported:
If the report is accurate, bump fire and similar devices will be gone before the end of the year. That's a no-brainer easy concession for Rs to make, and they will, so they can say they're "doing something".
AR prices will be going through the roof, and I wouldn't be surprised to see several restrictive bills introduced before the end of the year. I won't bet either way on if they go nowhere or somewhere a month from now when the next big thing hits the MSM news cycle. Notice that Puerto Rico suddenly isn't an, "we're all dying" thing anymore.
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Notice that Puerto Rico suddenly isn't an, "we're all dying" thing anymore.
Wasn't Trump clever to arrange this shooting to deflect attention from how badly his administration is responding to hurricane Maria? The man is obviously a PR genius. And the shooter is conveniently dead, so we'll never know how much Trump paid him.
If the report is accurate, bump fire and similar devices will be gone before the end of the year.
Call me a traitor to the cause, but I won't be terribly upset if they ban bump-fire or slide-fire stocks. I never saw any reason for them, anyway. Now, if they go after AR-15s in general, then I will be upset.
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Given the range 500+yards, it sounds like he's swinging the guns from side to side, sweeping the area with fire. So your get a Doppler effect that makes it sound like the rate of fire is changing.
Unless you are very practiced with bump fire, you wouldn't have to sweep your fire. The gun would do that for you. I have fired a Slide-Fire stock AR and it was tough to hold it loosely enough to allow bump fire yet still control where you were shooting. At over 500 yards, he would be spraying all over the crowd without even trying.
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Unless you are very practiced with bump fire, you wouldn't have to sweep your fire. The gun would do that for you. I have fired a Slide-Fire stock AR and it was tough to hold it loosely enough to allow bump fire yet still control where you were shooting. At over 500 yards, he would be spraying all over the crowd without even trying.
Over 20,000 people.
There's a picture of what that looks like here
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3234705/Trump-hammers-sanctuary-cities-crap-jokes-replacing-Obamacare-Donaldcare-women-CRY-20-000-enthralled-Texans-roar-90-minute-speech.html
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Four Months After Manchester, Ariana Grande Calls for 'Love, Unity, Peace, Gun Control' in Wake of Las Vegas Shooting
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/breakingnews/four-months-after-manchester-ariana-grande-calls-for-love-unity-peace-gun-control-in-wake-of-las-vegas-shooting/ar-AAsNRwI?OCID=ansmsnnews11
Yeah, nothing unites Americans like our desire for strict controls on guns.
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His brother continues to insist that Mr. Paddock had no ties to terror or hate groups and is mystified that he did this.
The brother was squirrely as all get out, if someone told me he was a meth head tweaking out, I'd have believed them. Combined with the Dad making the FBI most-wanted list back in the late 60's and early 70's... there's a good chance of some predisposition for all sorts of bat-*expletive deleted*it crazy.
The pink shirt Trump protest pics, I've been watching several feeds, and none of them have been debunked yet.
So my guess is that it's a combination of genetic disposition to crazy/criminality, and Trump Derangement syndrome. He might have lived a normal life with one or the other, but I'm guessing not both. I might throw gambling debts in there as a final push over the edge, but so far nothing to suggest he was liquidating his considerable assets to cover them, which I think would be the usual pattern before hitting rock-bottom.
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The Democrats aren't wasting any time:
http://dailycaller.com/2017/10/02/democrats-immediately-call-for-gun-control-after-las-vegas-shooting/
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How soon after the shooting did Hillary post her tweets?
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How soon after the shooting did Hillary post her tweets?
You mean she actually waited until the shooting stopped?
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The media are really piling on. It's less than 24 hours since the incident, and already they're blaming Trump because he hasn't called for more gun control,, and because he hasn't started flapping his gums about a motive. Of course, the police on the scene have said they have no indication of a motive, but I guess a real president is supposed to just know these things. That's Obama's real legacy: a president is supposed to assume a motive that fits his agenda, without bothering to wait for those troublesome fact things to filter in. Shame on Trump for not speculating.
https://au.news.yahoo.com/world/a/37320602/after-las-vegas-massacre-trump-silent-on-gun-control/
There have already been over 270 mass shootings in the United States this year alone, according to www.massshootingtracker.org, although the exact definition is contested.
I'd say the definition in contested. I've been trying to track mass and school shootings in the U.S., and I only have eleven incidents during all of 2017. Including this one. I'm going to have to look at their list to see how they justify claiming 270 "mass shootings."
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For the sake of those of us who are lazy and/or so disgusted with various news sources that we can't stand to look at them, would someone be so kind as to outline the current known facts about what happened?
The last I got was when I left work around one, and that was NBC coverage full of crappy NBC speculations.
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I'd say the definition in contested. I've been trying to track mass and school shootings in the U.S., and I only have eleven incidents during all of 2017. Including this one. I'm going to have to look at their list to see how they justify claiming 270 "mass shootings."
They'll have done like the crime statistics and included gang shootings and whatnot.
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The media are really piling on. It's less than 24 hours since the incident, and already they're blaming Trump because he hasn't called for more gun control,, and because he hasn't started flapping his gums about a motive.
Also, Obama cried and Trump didn't. That's an actual Newsweek headline.
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Country-Western concert at outdoors site across the street from Mandalay Bay casino and hotel. Attendance 22,000 to 40,000 people (depending on what source you believe). Toward the end of the show, someone started shooting into the concert audience with what sounded like a machine gun. Shots were noted to be coming from an upper floor of the Mandalay Bay hotel. People scrammed. Many people shot, many others injured in the stampede.
Police responded. Shooter traced to a room on 32nd floor thanks to the gunsmoke setting off the smoke alarm in his room. Police breached door to room, shooter killed himself. Shooter reported to have 10 AR-15s and 5,000 rounds of ammunition. Reportedly, multiple rifles were equipped with slide-fire stocks.
Shooter was a retired accountant and high stakes gambler. Political and religious affiliations unknown -- shooter's brother says there were none that the family knows of.
Motive unknown. Police searching his home. His female roommate (nature of relationship unknown) is out of the country and is not considered a suspect.
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Country-Western concert at outdoors site across the street from Mandalay Bay casino and hotel. Attendance 22,000 to 40,000 people (depending on what source you believe). Toward the end of the show, someone started shooting into the concert audience with what sounded like a machine gun. Shots were noted to be coming from an upper floor of the Mandalay Bay hotel. People scrammed. Many people shot, many others injured in the stampede.
Police responded. Shooter traced to a room on 32nd floor thanks to the gunsmoke setting off the smoke alarm in his room. Police breached door to room, shooter killed himself. Shooter reported to have 10 AR-15s and 5,000 rounds of ammunition. Reportedly, multiple rifles were equipped with slide-fire stocks.
Shooter was a retired accountant and high stakes gambler. Political and religious affiliations unknown -- shooter's brother says there were none that the family knows of.
Motive unknown. Police searching his home. His female roommate (nature of relationship unknown) is out of the country and is not considered a suspect.
Thank you.
It seems that nothing much has changed since the last time I saw "news".
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Also, Obama cried and Trump didn't. That's an actual Newsweek headline.
Let Mattis answer that one in the vein of Sam Elliot's Sgtmaj Plumley character.
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Weaponised autism found a guy that looks like him named Steve at an anti-Trump rally in Reno, NV in August wearing a pink kitty hat and a NASA T-shirt. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzO0lgvQID0
https://twitter.com/vsvs_a/status/914920065400795137 Video of someone walking up to the guy in question and saying "Hi Steve."
I know he worked for Lockheed from 1985-1988, I will see if I can better link him to NASA and see what else I can find.
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. . . Of course, the police on the scene have said they have no indication of a motive, but I guess a real president is supposed to just know these things . . .
A real, media-approved POTUS would just reflexively say that the police behaved stupidly, and all would be well with the press.
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Two questions. I read that it was approx 72 minutes from the start of the event till the cops breached. Was the perp shooting the whole time?
Second, I have never been to Vegas. Can someone who has tell me if perhaps the concert was just a target of opportunity, and perhaps the perp had (maybe) originally just planned on shooting down at the Strip on a Sunday night?
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That CBS lawyer that shot off her mouth also shot herself in the foot. She got fired.
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Two questions. I read that it was approx 72 minutes from the start of the event till the cops breached. Was the perp shooting the whole time?
Second, I have never been to Vegas. Can someone who has tell me if perhaps the concert was just a target of opportunity, and perhaps the perp had (maybe) originally just planned on shooting down at the Strip on a Sunday night?
I would guess that an outdoor concert would have been well advertised and promoted.
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Thank you.
It seems that nothing much has changed since the last time I saw "news".
The victim count keeps climbing.
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I would guess that an outdoor concert would have been well advertised and promoted.
Definitely, but there are concerts in Vegas all the time. It is possible, of course (and seems to be the prevailing theory) that he targeted that concert in particular. I'm just suggesting an alternative that puts this more within the realm of previous crimes.
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Wasn't Trump clever to arrange this shooting to deflect attention from how madly his administration is responding to hurricane Maria? The man is obviously a PR genius. And the shooter is conveniently dead, so we'll never know how much Trump paid him.
That's crazy talk! No one would believe that...
They released O.J. just 20 hours before the attack took place so all the media would come and be in place to cover this event. The whole thing has the hallmarks of being scripted by deep state Democrats and their Islamic allies using mental patient cut-outs.
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The victim count keeps climbing.
That I expect. It'll probably be a couple days before they have that number nailed down, depending on how things go at the hospitals.
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Weaponised autism found a guy that looks like him named Steve at an anti-Trump rally in Reno, NV in August wearing a pink kitty hat and a NASA T-shirt. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzO0lgvQID0
https://twitter.com/vsvs_a/status/914920065400795137 Video of someone walking up to the guy in question and saying "Hi Steve."
I know he worked for Lockheed, I will see if I can better link him to NASA and see what else I can find.
There are 5 'Paddock' last names in the NASA global address list, none of which have first names Steve or Stephen or even middle initial "S". Unfortunately, I no longer have access to the Lockheed Martin global email list, so I am unable to search that one.
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A good friend of mine has a good friend who is a recently-retired senior command officer in the Las Vegas PD. The retiree still lives in Las Vegas, so I'm sure he has some inside skinny. Here's what my friend said his friend reported:
Source please? Not doubting, just don't want to post without a source link.
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shooter's brother says there were none that the family knows of.
His brother (the one in Orlando) is on another board I am a member of and he says;
steve paddock was my brother... we have no idea why he did this from our side... he was no angel, but this is so far off the charts that we are dumbfounded...
Two questions. I read that it was approx 72 minutes from the start of the event till the cops breached. Was the perp shooting the whole time?
Second, I have never been to Vegas. Can someone who has tell me if perhaps the concert was just a target of opportunity, and perhaps the perp had (maybe) originally just planned on shooting down at the Strip on a Sunday night?
I have heard ten minutes from the start of shooting until the door was breached and the shooter was dead. ???
I don't think this was a TOO type of event. He put some thought into this IMO.
My son was in that same place for a concert about a month ago, he looked around and decided he was too vulnerable with the tall buildings all around. He said he had to leave. I guess all that time in A-Stan has made him just a little more aware and paranoid. That is not a bad thing.
bob
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That CBS lawyer that shot off her mouth also shot herself in the foot. She got fired.
For those that don't know what he is talking about. http://dailycaller.com/2017/10/02/cbs-legal-exec-no-sympathy-because-country-music-fans-often-are-republican/
You saw this same *expletive deleted*it with the Hurricane Harvey, and also after the shooting that left Scalise hospitalized. Many on the left were glad it happened to those evil right-wing people. I wouldn't be surprised at all that this was done by some leftist antifa supporter. There are some reports coming out by 4-chan showing what appears to be this Steve guy at some leftist rally.
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Well this is interesting. Apparently his dad was at one time on the FBI's most wanted list for robbing a bank and escaping prison before being caught again, http://nypost.com/2017/10/02/vegas-gunmans-psychopath-dad-landed-on-fbis-most-wanted-list/
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robear: I looked at the articles. He worked for Lockheed from 1985-1988.
The common picture of him with darker hair is from 2002.
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Vox is going absolutely apes hit right now. Close to a dozen 'articles' decrying this and calling for gun control.
Of course they trot out Aussieland.
One article claims over 1,500 mass shootings in the US since Sandy Hook.
Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
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Weaponised autism found a guy that looks like him named Steve at an anti-Trump rally in Reno, NV in August wearing a pink kitty hat and a NASA T-shirt. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzO0lgvQID0
https://twitter.com/vsvs_a/status/914920065400795137 Video of someone walking up to the guy in question and saying "Hi Steve."
I know he worked for Lockheed from 1985-1988, I will see if I can better link him to NASA and see what else I can find.
If that is him, I hope somebody's capturing any videos like that independently before the antifas start cleansing them from the net.
Terry
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They want us disarmed, but they also want us dead. So what, again, is my motivation to disarm?
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2017/10/02/i-want-every-trump-supporter-dead-j-r-salzman-exposes-todays-compassionate-liberals/
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http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-las-vegas-shooting-live-updates-paddock-had-19-rifles-in-room-1506985512-htmlstory.html
Stephen Paddock, the Las Vegas shooter, had an arsenal of 17 weapons in his hotel room, mostly military-style rifles, according to a law enforcement source.
At least one of them had been modified with a legal “bump stock” style device that allows the shooter to rapidly fire off rounds without actually converting it to a fully automatic weapon, the source said.
The devices modify the gun’s stock so that the recoil helps accelerate how quickly the shooter can pull the trigger. The devices are legal in the U.S.
Other weapons may have been converted to fully automatic fire, and were still being examined, the source said.
Paddock had four Daniel Defense DDM4 rifles, three FN-15s and other rifles made by Sig Sauer.
So probably no full auto, but one or more bump-fire stocks.
Four Daniel Defense rifles. That's a bit of money.
Also: apparently the L.A. Times can't decide if he had 17 guns or 19.
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Second, I have never been to Vegas. Can someone who has tell me if perhaps the concert was just a target of opportunity, and perhaps the perp had (maybe) originally just planned on shooting down at the Strip on a Sunday night?
He would have had to have been spectacularly lucky if it wasn't planned that way. It was the last night of a three day event, so the headliner was playing. That hotel would have been sold out for a while with an event that big in town, so he probably booked the room weeks ahead. And he had tens of thousands of people jammed tightly in an area fenced to keep people out, which of course keeps them in too. My understanding (forgot the source) was that some folks breached the fence on the opposite side to escape. That put them on the airport property. Not sure if it was people on the runway or reasonable concern over nearby gunfire but they shut down the airport for a while.
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Source please? Not doubting, just don't want to post without a source link.
Sorry. I can't divulge my source. In fact, I may already have posted too much, because in a subsequent e-mail to me, my friend said his friend (the retired cop) had told him not to share. (Which I why I no longer tell anything to this particular friend unless I absolutely want to share it with the world.)
I am curious about the time line. Someone on here posted that it took the police 72 minutes to find the guy and neutralize him. The retired Las Vegas cop said ten minutes. Which was it?
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I've heard both time lines.
Gonna be a while before the "official narrative" is finalized for promulgation.
In the mean time the conspiracy theory generator is spinning up to warp speed.
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They want us disarmed, but they also want us dead. So what, again, is my motivation to disarm?
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2017/10/02/i-want-every-trump-supporter-dead-j-r-salzman-exposes-todays-compassionate-liberals/
After Sandy Hook, Pulse nightclub, Charleston, and San Bernardino, she must have wanted every Obama supporter to be 24 feet underground.
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Anyone heard anything about a break-down of casualties? I'm curious about the number wounded/killed by gunfire versus the number wounded/killed by the stampede or by fleeing the scene.
Oh, and the usual suspects around the courthouse are yelling about silencers, "military grade" firearms, and, my personal favorite, the need for a national database of people with serious mental health issues...
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Oh, and the usual suspects around the courthouse are yelling about silencers, "military grade" firearms, and, my personal favorite, the need for a national database of people with serious mental health issues...
In the middle of a concert, would anyone even hear unsuppressed rifle fire from a 32-story window?
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2017/10/02/hot-take-las-vegas-shooting-suspect-enjoying-white-privilege-even-in-death/
Yeah, 'cause they never try to humanize minority criminals, or make them seem like friendly, gentle giants.
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http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-las-vegas-shooting-live-updates-paddock-had-19-rifles-in-room-1506985512-htmlstory.html
So probably no full auto, but one or more bump-fire stocks.
Four Daniel Defense rifles. That's a bit of money.
Also: apparently the L.A. Times can't decide if he had 17 guns or 19.
Twice they mentioned how they are legal. ;/
He would have had to have been spectacularly lucky if it wasn't planned that way. It was the last night of a three day event, so the headliner was playing.
Had checked in on the 28th. I heard that there were other events going on before too, but this is the one he shot up.
Four Daniel Defense rifles. That's a bit of money
I've heard he had quite a bit of money.
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I am curious about the time line. Someone on here posted that it took the police 72 minutes to find the guy and neutralize him. The retired Las Vegas cop said ten minutes. Which was it?
From listening to the police audio, at around 30 minutes into the recording dispatch asked if anyone had heard any shooting recently. One of the cops who was pinned down somewhere said he'd heard nothing for about 15 minutes. Meanwhile, SWAT and other units were still evacuating the floor, getting into position, and making sure the suspect couldn't escape.
I don't know anything about when the suspect killed himself. Was there somebody in the hall or at his door who spooked him 10-15 minutes into the shooting, causing him to kill himself? Did he spontaneously shoot himself early on? Was he watching TV for the rest of the time until SWAT was about to enter, and only then shot himself? What's more certain is that, however long it took him to decide to kill himself, he'd stopped shooting outside after 10-15 minutes.
SWAT must have delayed about an hour from last known shots in order to improve their odds, since the active shooter wasn't active.
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Haven't heard any more info on it, but apparently he set up a surveillance system to monitor for when the police show up.
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This seems to have a pretty good timeline on it.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/10/02/us/mandalay-bay-vegas-shooting.html
He shot a Mandalay Bay security guard but other than a passing reference a couple of times I haven't heard anything else about it.
bob
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It was bad enough when shadow president Hillary Clinton decided to tie the mass shooting to the NRA and current legislation regarding noise suppressors.
That was irresponsible at best, but not new for the Democrats. We all know Clinton knows nothing about firearms, but a former FBI agent?
As The Daily Caller reported, Manny Gomez, a former FBI agent who was a guest on MSNBC on Monday, told the host that “hunters would make an argument that they need that so that their target, whether it’s a deer, etc. don’t hear the shot.”
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As The Daily Caller reported, Manny Gomez, a former FBI agent who was a guest on MSNBC on Monday, told the host that “hunters would make an argument that they need that so that their target, whether it’s a deer, etc. don’t hear the shot.”
Back in 2004, when the federal assault weapons ban was expiring, I was in a small gun shop when a reporter came in to ask the shop owner what the AWB was all about. This is a guy who had, at the time, been in the firearms business for 25 or 30 years. I stood there and listened as he explained the flash hiders are so the person being shot at doesn't see the muzzle flash.
Yes, he really said that. To a reporter. :facepalm:
In fact;
(https://i.imgur.com/CxFpnpa.jpg)
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I know this is premature, but I wonder if Paddock's autopsy will show any abnormalities in his brain, akin to Charles Whitman (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Texas_tower_shooting). Both had a fondness for gambling, but we haven't seen evidence that Paddock had violent impulses as Whitman did (other than his actions last night, obviously).
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https://twitchy.com/sd-3133/2017/10/02/oof-ben-shapiro-shuts-down-math-challenged-gun-grabber-kumail-nanjiani/
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Of the injured how many are going to be less than whole? Considering the angle of attack, going to see a lot head shots.
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I know this is premature, but I wonder if Paddock's autopsy will show any abnormalities in his brain, akin to Charles Whitman (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Texas_tower_shooting). Both had a fondness for gambling, but we haven't seen evidence that Paddock had violent impulses as Whitman did (other than his actions last night, obviously).
Just no. I and several others here love to play cards, but we don't shoot up the place. No different than the lefties calling all of us mass killers in waiting since we have more guns than north Korea.
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Quote from: Angel Eyes on October 02, 2017, 11:13:57 PM
I know this is premature, but I wonder if Paddock's autopsy will show any abnormalities in his brain...
I wonder how that would work if he had shot himself in the head. Wouldn't all the bullet damage tend to mask abnormalities?
Don't know, so I'm asking. But let's keep any photos at least G-rated, OK? I'm thinking of some of our more fragile readers.
Terry
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More info on firearms. No idea on the accuracy, though I suspect the updated number of guns in the hotel room is closer to correct. Same lack of knowledge on firearm operation and laws as most every other story.
Note the part where the neighbors saw the "refrigerator sized safe" in his garage. I guess I'm on a list now, because i have one of those too.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/10/03/23-firearms-found-in-mandalay-bay-hotel-room-occupied-by-las-vegas-gunman.html
Edit: Also notice the "explosives" comment. I'm betting "explosives" are either propellant or maybe Tannerite. It could be he had black powder, but we'll see.
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Also I just saw Trump on the teevee just before leaving for his trip to PR. He said, "We're going to have a conversation on gun control." I don't know what that will mean.
Also as I was typing the line above, I heard a former Assistant FBI Director talking about how he could hear from the audio tapes that the shooter used "military grade projectiles". ;/
I just assume the MSM will always say whacky stuff, but it really irritates me when supposedly trained LE spew nonsense like that, because people without firearms knowledge tend to cite them as "experts".
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More info on firearms. No idea on the accuracy, though I suspect the updated number of guns in the hotel room is closer to correct. Same lack of knowledge on firearm operation and laws as most every other story.
Note the part where the neighbors saw the "refrigerator sized safe" in his garage. I guess I'm on a list now, because i have one of those too.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/10/03/23-firearms-found-in-mandalay-bay-hotel-room-occupied-by-las-vegas-gunman.html
Edit: Also notice the "explosives" comment. I'm betting "explosives" are either propellant or maybe Tannerite. It could be he had black powder, but we'll see.
Tannerite.
Update from my friend who knows the rertired Las Vegas police officer. Not sure if these are the cop's words or my friend's summary:
Latest news:
21 rifles found in the room, 308 and 5.56 caliber. 13 suitcases full of ammo, magazines and guns. 90 lbs of Tannerite. 14 more rifles at home. From the pictures I have at least one rifle was equipped with a bump fire stock. I also counted 15 high capacity magazines laying around stacked on the floor, and a suitcase full of standard capacity magazines.
No idea yet of why he did it.
So, 21 rifles ... we know he had at least one handgun, so one more would get us to 23. Don't know why the Tannerite. IED, maybe?
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Also as I was typing the line above, I heard a former Assistant FBI Director talking about how he could hear from the audio tapes that the shooter used "military grade projectiles". ;/
That would be the same "expert" who said silencers [sic] are so the target can't hear the sound of the shot?
"Military grade projectiles" sounds so evil and scary-like, but the reality is that both M109 and M855 rounds for the AR-15 are "military grade." One is what I carried in Vietnam, the other is (I believe) still standard issue for the M16 and M4, except for special ops units. Those two make up the bulk of 5.56x45 ammo sold everywhere. So his statement is probably true, but obviously phrased to advance a strong anti-gun agenda.
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That would be the same "expert" who said silencers [sic] are so the target can't hear the sound of the shot?
No, it's a different one. Which is worse, because it's an indicator of more widespread lack of basic firearms knowledge (or an agenda) in the FBI.
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If we had sensible gun laws in this country, the shooter would have merely tickled the victims with feathery-soft, civilian-grade projectiles.
Now this just cracks me right up:
https://twitchy.com/gregp-3534/2017/10/03/piers-morgan-beclowns-himself-again-on-guns-this-time-dropping-the-muslim-card/
And, as always, left-wing hypocrisy
http://www.dailywire.com/news/21854/report-jimmy-kimmel-bulks-his-security-he-lectures-amanda-prestigiacomo
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Let the tinfoilers come out: https://squawker.org/politics/4chanvegas/ (https://squawker.org/politics/4chanvegas/) [tinfoil] [tinfoil]
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Also I just saw Trump on the teevee just before leaving for his trip to PR. He said, "We're going to have a conversation on gun control." I don't know what that will mean.
Hopefully it's something like what he did that time and tricked the reporters into thinking he was going to discuss something else, and talks about how guns aren't the issue.
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Also I just saw Trump on the teevee just before leaving for his trip to PR. He said, "We're going to have a conversation on gun control." I don't know what that will mean.
You got me worried with this one. My e-mail to the President:
Mr. President:
Like most Americans (other than Democrats, who are secretly celebrating), I was shocked by the massacre in Las Vegas Sunday night. As tragic as the incident was, I can't help observing that the Democrats didn't even wait for the bodies to cool before beginning their predictable campaign to use the incident to promote their anti-gun, anti-Constitution agenda. So far, it appears that the firearms used were all purchased legally and that none of the "common sense" gun control measures being promoted by the Democrats could in any way have prevented this cowardly attack.
Mr. President, I read that you (or your spokesperson) said there will be a conversation on gun control. Sir, I beg you ... I implore you ... please DO NOT cave in to the gun grabbers. I am not a "gun nut." I am a senior citizen, a Vietnam veteran who swore an oath 51 years ago to protect and to defend the Constitution of the United States, and a direct descendant of a Chief Justice of the United States Supreme Court. Our Constitution is sacred to me, as I hope it is to you. You also swore an oath of office to protect and to defend the Constitution. The Democrats in Congress also swore such an oath, but they have forsworn their oaths a long time ago.
Mr. President, we don't need a conversation on gun control. What we need is a conversation on left-wing, liberal, "antifa" rhetoric that encourages and celebrates violence against anyone who doesn't agree with them -- all the while claiming that it is your administration and your supporters who are to blame for all violence in society.
Enough! We don't need more gun control. What we need is media control. There needs to be a national conversation on how much freedom of the press should be allowed when the press stops being an organ of objectivity and becomes the de facto propaganda machine for the extreme fringe of one political party.
Respectfully,
[Me]
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Also I just saw Trump on the teevee just before leaving for his trip to PR. He said, "We're going to have a conversation on gun control." I don't know what that will mean.
1. I think it means he's stalling. Which is a good sign.
2. It matters more what Congress does than Trump.
3. It would be inconsistent for Trump to ban stuff by EO like Obama tried to do.
And meh... I still think the "emotional algebra" of mass shootings, a grade schooler is "worth" 10x an adult. And considering Sandy Hook happened under Obama's watch and Democrat control... I am not that worried.
Honestly, any "panic" over this is going to help the gun industry over the hump of the "Trump Glut" a bit.
HPA might be dead. Shrug. That would suck, but only in the sense of status-quo, not in terms of a "loss".
Losing bumpfire stocks and trigger cranks would be a PITA. But I wouldn't be overly concerned. I think most people always figure that bumpfire, cranks, binary triggers are always hanging by a thread with the ATF as it is. And yes, there's obviously the "You don't have to justify "needs" vs. "wants." aspect of freedom, but IMO, the real utility of a bumpfire stock is for a near total SHTF event, and only then in the obscenely rare circumstance simulating FA is going to be of some sort of benefit to you and your family.
I'm just not feeling a ton of gun control worry right now.
And I've noticed that since Sandy Hook, there's an undertone of "There's nothing to be done" even from the anti's as they make their gun control pleas.
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Hopefully it's something like what he did that time and tricked the reporters into thinking he was going to discuss something else, and talks about how guns aren't the issue.
I'm going to guess and say that he'll "work with dems" as far as something like banning bump stocks and similar. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I'm seeing that as an easy giveaway for Rs because it only affects a very limited number of gunowners. I'm not for it mind you, but I believe the Rs will cave on something.
Though I am worried on both the suppressor bill due to uneducated loudmouths like Hillary, and also the national reciprocity bill. While neither has anything to do with this incident, that never seems to stop the grabbers. All you have to do is look at the comments, after it was reported that he had "OMG scopes" in the room, that were saying, "What if he had used a scope on the machine guns?" Because scopes and recoil go so well together. ;/
Edit: AJ covered some of my points as I was typing.
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Also I just saw Trump on the teevee just before leaving for his trip to PR. He said, "We're going to have a conversation on gun control." I don't know what that will mean.
It will mean everything I said about Trump when he was running for office was true.
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No, it's a different one. Which is worse, because it's an indicator of more widespread lack of basic firearms knowledge (or an agenda) in the FBI.
Agenda.
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It will mean everything I said about Trump when he was running for office was true.
Steve Bannon this morning said that if Trump caves on gun control (I think he meant anything more than bump stocks or similar), he's done, as his base will see that as much worse than caving on immigration.
If Trump were to promote anything like an "assault weapons" ban or magazine ban or kill national reciprocity (not that he will, but if), I would agree with Bannon. And if he does do such a thing, I'll be interested to see the NRA's reaction.
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Or he could just be saying it and will do nothing. There's a huge difference between "Having a conversation later" and "We need to ban/pass legislation/DO SOMETHING!".
Perhaps he'll let this run it's course and nothing happens.
Meanwhile, Jimmy Kimmel goes full retard. He was funny on "The Man Show" with Adam Carolla, but since he's become a shill for the left. (Most recently with Healthcare.)
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/las-vegas-shooting-jimmy-kimmel-rips-gun-control-foes/
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@davidharsanyi
I'm going to watch Kimmel tonight to see what Dem leadership has to say on this issue.
https://twitchy.com/gregp-3534/2017/10/03/ben-shapiro-uses-jimmy-kimmels-monologue-to-bash-jared-kushner-liberals-still-pissed/
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Will the ATF be able to do anything about bump stocks independently, like the kurfluffle over the armbraces?
And, I agree with AJ and Ben, if they go after anything, it'll be the bump stocks. To my mind, those have always been iffy. I tried explaining them to non gun people today and I didn't get very far. Admittedly, I was honest and said they are a workaround and a legal cheat to the NFA, but the whole concept of it being technically different from full auto was over their heads.
For anyone who doesn't know (or really care) what a bump stock is, banning them is going to be an easy sell. =|
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Will the ATF be able to do anything about bump stocks independently, like the kurfluffle over the armbraces?
And, I agree with AJ and Ben, if they go after anything, it'll be the bump stocks. To my mind, those have always been iffy. I tried explaining them to non gun people today and I didn't get very far. Admittedly, I was honest and said they are a workaround and a legal cheat to the NFA, but the whole concept of it being technically different from full auto was over their heads.
For anyone who doesn't know (or really care) what a bump stock is, banning them is going to be an easy sell. =|
I don't care about bump stocks. But banning trigger cranks would really suck. I don't have one, but how else are you gong to make a Gatling-type gun? Or what if you have a real Gatling gun, is that suddenly illegal? They also work well on semi-auto M1919's.
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I have a slide fire stock. I put in on my 5.45 AR upper. I burned through 10 or 12 magazines with my Dad one day. Never did it again. It is cumbersome for regular shooting and not accurate at all without some real practice. I have Surefire 100 round mag now. I have always meant to go dump it once with that stock, but never have. I would hate to see them go as it would be a minor victory for anti-freedom types, but it wouldn't affect me much.
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Sounds like they still are not releasing a list of guns, but I am still hearing that two were modified to fire full auto. My problem is I don't know if "modified" means a bump fire stock or something similar or actual firearm mods to make it function as FA. I guess it will take longer to learn that.
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Sounds like they still are not releasing a list of guns, but I am still hearing that two were modified to fire full auto. My problem is I don't know if "modified" means a bump fire stock or something similar or actual firearm mods to make it function as FA. I guess it will take longer to learn that.
This. And the vast majority of people will just remember that he had full-auto guns.
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This. And the vast majority of people will just remember that he had full-auto guns.
Which anyone can buy at any gun store.
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This. And the vast majority of people will just remember that he had full-auto guns.
Which anyone can buy at any gun store.
And at any gun show without a background check.
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Which anyone can buy at any gun store.
I order mine from the NRA's website, or from Walmart.
I also heard someone, I think it was a "conservative" radio guy, from Fox News, who said that one of the bullets penetrated a man, killing him, and striking the woman he was trying to protect. He made it sound as if the murderer had some kind of extra-scary projectiles. :facepalm:
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I also heard someone, I think it was a "conservative" radio guy, from Fox News, who said that one of the bullets penetrated a man, killing him, and striking the woman he was trying to protect. He made it sound as if the murderer had some kind of extra-scary projectiles. :facepalm:
I heard a similar version where it was explained (I think on Fox News) that the 5.56 stops inside one person, but the 7.62 stops in the second person.
The technical side of the reporting on this seems to be more atrocious than usual for these incidents, and the "conservative sources" are as bad, if not worse, than the lefty sources.
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1) expect legislation banning bump fire. The nooz is going ape *expletive deleted*it over the bump stocks. Expect that to be the "compromise"
2) Expect the ATF to clamp down on anything that might modify a weapon to fire faster.
3) Don't be surprised if they go after high capacity. Pictures show 60 round magazine in the AR that was equipped with bump stock.
4) Expect Trump to cave, and the house Republicans to cave, on some aspects of new gun control.
My 2 cents.
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I also heard someone, I think it was a "conservative" radio guy, from Fox News, who said that one of the bullets penetrated a man, killing him, and striking the woman he was trying to protect. He made it sound as if the murderer had some kind of extra-scary projectiles. :facepalm:
He did. A retired FBI agent on some talk show said he used "military-grade projectiles." Which could just be plain-vanilla M193 or M855 (55-grain and 62-grain), which are the two loadings most commonly found for bulk sale in 5.56x45. And they certainly are "military-grade," but (for those who know) not especially terrifying or unusual. One doctor from one of the trauma centers commented that the bullets really tore people up inside, unlike normal handgun bullets, which supports the notion that it might have been the 55-grain stuff that we carried in Vietnam.
But referring to the ammo (and the guns) as "military-grade" makes them sound super-extra-scary to the general public.
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He did. A retired FBI agent on some talk show said he used "military-grade projectiles." Which could just be plain-vanilla M193 or M855 (55-grain and 62-grain), which are the two loadings most commonly found for bulk sale in 5.56x45. And they certainly are "military-grade," but (for those who know) not especially terrifying or unusual. One doctor from one of the trauma centers commented that the bullets really tore people up inside, unlike normal handgun bullets, which supports the notion that it might have been the 55-grain stuff that we carried in Vietnam.
But referring to the ammo (and the guns) as "military-grade" makes them sound super-extra-scary to the general public.
I thought "military-grade" was just a euphemism for aluminum, like in the new Ford trucks.
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Let the tinfoilers come out: https://squawker.org/politics/4chanvegas/ (https://squawker.org/politics/4chanvegas/) [tinfoil] [tinfoil]
Keep in mind that /pol/ is always right. [tinfoil]
Checked in earlier today, some of them are suggesting that"John" may in fact be "John Titor", if anyone remembers him. More proof of Trump's time machine perhaps? [tinfoil]
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I always thought "military grade" meant "built by the lowest bidder".
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I always thought "military grade" meant "built by the lowest bidder".
Anybody impressed with "military grade" ain't never been in the military. :facepalm:
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As always, the usual suspects are delusional.
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-las-vegas-shooting-live-updates-at-his-local-starbucks-vegas-shooter-1507060195-htmlstory.html
Scroll down about halfway, to the segment "Republicans are unwilling to consider new gun safety laws as Democrats plead with Trump to intervene"
Senate Minority Leader Charles E. Schumer (D-N.Y.) said only Trump could change the stalemate in Congress, which has been unable to approve new gun safety bills, despite majority public support after the nation's repeated mass shootings.
"A small powerful lobby that represents a vast minority — a very small minority — of Americans seems to have a stranglehold on the Republican Party," Schumer said, referring to gun rights advocates, including the National Rifle Assn.
"Let's see if he has the courage, the willpower to say, 'I’m going to break with that small group' and do something that makes common sense and Americans — in overwhelming numbers, Democrats, Republicans and independents — want."
I sense a repeat of the strategy of, if you tell a lie often enough, sooner or later people start to believe it. So here's Chuckie, repeating the lie that it's only a small -- VERY small -- minority of Americans who don't want more gun control. And that "overwhelming" numbers of Americans want more gun control. If that were true, we'd be genuflecting to Her Royal Highness, President Hillary.
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Senate Minority Leader Charles E. Schumer (D-N.Y.) said only Trump could change the stalemate in Congress, which has been unable to approve new gun safety bills, despite majority public support after the nation's repeated mass shootings.
"A small powerful lobby that represents a vast minority — a very small minority — of Americans seems to have a stranglehold on the Republican Party," Schumer said, referring to gun rights advocates, including the National Rifle Assn.
"Let's see if he has the courage, the willpower to say, 'I’m going to break with that small group' and do something that makes common sense and Americans — in overwhelming numbers, Democrats, Republicans and independents — want."
Now they should speak up about planned parenthood, which gives like a bajillion more dollars to politicians than the NRA does. I saw Steve Scalice said that his views on gun rights are now stronger than ever. That pretty much made lib heads explode.
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I like how he changes "vast minority" to "very small minority."
One funny thing about the "but what if he had a silencer" people is that they don't seem to realize that he could have had silencers, if he wanted them. Whether legally, or illegally. Nobody tell them that they're actually available to those with patience and money.
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Now I am a very small minority? Well, bring on the minority rights! I do yearn for the days when we were a vast right wing conspiracy though.
Back on the suppressor thing, it could have made this or a similar situation worse if the reduced muzzle visual signature made counterfire harder to target. But I have seen no reports of counterfire and in any case he was located by smoke alarm.
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I like how he changes "vast minority" to "very small minority."
Definitely a mixed metaphor, for sure. A minority is still a minority, so how "vast" can it be? Especially if it's a very small vast minority. Even a vast minority is, I suppose, less than a small majority.
Reminds me of the joke about the APB put out by the police after a midget fortune teller robbed a bank and escaped:
"Small medium at large."
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http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/kass/ct-met-las-vegas-shooting-kass-1004-story.html
But let’s not forget that most killings aren’t committed by some lone sniper without apparent motive. The killings happen on the streets of big cities like Chicago, a city of strict gun control, where street gangs continue their slaughter and City Hall is powerless to stop them.
And America is numb to what happens in Chicago.
There are guns in the suburbs and in rural areas, and yet the suburbs aren’t killing fields. So if we’re going to have another gun debate, can’t we at least discuss culture, too?
I wonder how much longer Mr. Kass will be employed by the Tribune.
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http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/kass/ct-met-las-vegas-shooting-kass-1004-story.html
I wonder how much longer Mr. Kass will be employed by the Tribune.
She's clearly culturally insensitive and should be reeducated.
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1) expect legislation banning bump fire. The nooz is going ape *expletive deleted*it over the bump stocks. Expect that to be the "compromise"
No great loss, except that no loss is good.
2) Expect the ATF to clamp down on anything that might modify a weapon to fire faster.
3) Don't be surprised if they go after high capacity. Pictures show 60 round magazine in the AR that was equipped with bump stock.
Quad stack magazine, from the pic I saw.
4) Expect Trump to cave, and the house Republicans to cave, on some aspects of new gun control.
My 2 cents.
The buzz on the book of faces says Paul Ryan has shelved SHARE. <scowl> The supressor thing was only one of the things this would have fixed. "We really mean it" for the unmolested passage provisions of FOPA would have been very nice to get.
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The buzz on the book of faces says Paul Ryan has shelved SHARE. <scowl> The supressor thing was only one of the things this would have fixed. "We really mean it" for the unmolested passage provisions of FOPA would have been very nice to get.
Little as I care for Ryan, I can see the expedient part of that. I can live with a postponement.
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I'm sensing a theme!
http://www.dailywire.com/news/21892/professor-white-supremacist-patriarchy-responsible-paul-bois
White people and men are told that they are entitled to everything. This is what happens when they don't get what they want.
http://www.dailywire.com/news/21871/rapper-white-people-are-reason-why-guns-are-hank-berrien
WHITE PEOPLE SO SCARED THEY THE REASON WHY GUNS ARE A PROBLEM IF WHITE PEOPLE PUT DOWN THE GUNZ WE ALL BE SAFE BUT NOPE! THEY VILENT - Lil B
Yikes. Do they really want to compare rates of violence by race? :facepalm:
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Yikes. Do they really want to compare rates of violence by race? :facepalm:
Of course not. They just want to tell white people that white people are the problem. Actual comparisons are so boring ... especially when they don't fit the narrative.
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Of course not. They just want to tell white people that white people are the problem. Actual comparisons are so boring ... especially when they don't fit the narrative.
They must want them some Trump. Cuz datz how u getz Trump!
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So Kurt Eichenwald used all of Twitter's bandwidth raving about how the NRA doesn't allow people to bring MAC-10s into their headquarters. Does anybody know what he's talking about? (I mean, since he doesn't, maybe someone else does.) Anyone know what NRA's policy is about visitors with guns?
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LA Times is calling on readers to "fix" the 2nd Amendment.
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2017/10/03/la-times-gives-readers-the-chance-to-rewrite-the-second-amendment-wapo-offers-fix/
Also, on the Kurt Eichendweeb thing, I find it interesting that he says "all guns but handguns and hunting rifles should be outlawed". He forgot about shotguns (Hi Joe Biden!). And what, now apparently the left is okay with handguns?
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I'm glad he picked something with an unambiguous definition, like "hunting rifle."
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Now I am a very small minority? Well, bring on the minority rights! I do yearn for the days when we were a vast right wing conspiracy though.
Back on the suppressor thing, it could have made this or a similar situation worse if the reduced muzzle visual signature made counterfire harder to target. But I have seen no reports of counterfire and in any case he was located by smoke alarm.
Counterfire? He was on the 32nd floor of an occupied hotel. Except for the two windows he had broken out, the glass was reflective coated. Counterfire was effectively impossible. I doubt of even Carlos Hathcock would have tried the shot.
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Counterfire? He was on the 32nd floor of an occupied hotel. Except for the two windows he had broken out, the glass was reflective coated. Counterfire was effectively impossible. I doubt of even Carlos Hathcock would have tried the shot.
Bllly Dixon coulda take him out! ;/
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The buzz on the book of faces says Paul Ryan has shelved SHARE. <scowl> The supressor thing was only one of the things this would have fixed. "We really mean it" for the unmolested passage provisions of FOPA would have been very nice to get.
Did they merely postpone voting on it, or did they basically throw it in the trash?
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So Kurt Eichenwald used all of Twitter's bandwidth raving about how the NRA doesn't allow people to bring MAC-10s into their headquarters. Does anybody know what he's talking about? (I mean, since he doesn't, maybe someone else does.) Anyone know what NRA's policy is about visitors with guns?
From what I remember, it's "keep them in the holster unless you're in the gun range"
Back on the suppressor thing, it could have made this or a similar situation worse if the reduced muzzle visual signature made counterfire harder to target. But I have seen no reports of counterfire and in any case he was located by smoke alarm.
Apparently he was located because he shot a hotel security guard who was evacuating people. Then committed suicide. The guard was minorly injured.
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Counterfire? He was on the 32nd floor of an occupied hotel. Except for the two windows he had broken out, the glass was reflective coated. Counterfire was effectively impossible. I doubt of even Carlos Hathcock would have tried the shot.
Psycho dude was shooting at people 500 yards away. That would have been a short putt for ol' Carlos.
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Clearly, a ban on high capacity hotels would have saved many, since he wouldn't have gotten a good vantage point so easily.
And it's probably easier to get than a ban on "new country."
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https://www.naturalnews.com/2017-10-02-lone-gunman-theory-of-las-vegas-shooter-is-complete-nonsense-stephen-paddock.html#
Now for some "humor" on the subject. I could write a book on each of his points to debunk them.
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And it's probably easier to get than a ban on "new country."
A ban on new country. That has possibilities.
Don't tell the New York Times, but this is a fisking:
http://thefederalist.com/2017/10/04/dear-jimmy-kimmel-stay-gun-debate-cant-honest/
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Psycho dude was shooting at people 500 yards away. That would have been a short putt for ol' Carlos.
I was thinking if concealed handgun holders tried to fire back, they would probably end up putting bullets into nearby rooms. If they did go through his windows, they would end up going through to other rooms. You might still do it. Police carbines could have been used.
Has anyone heard how long the guy continued to fire? I heard it was anywhere from 10 minutes to over an hour before they got into his room. So how long did he continue to fire before he stopped? I would have thought that sort of timeline would be out there.
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I was thinking if concealed handgun holders tried to fire back, they would probably end up putting bullets into nearby rooms. If they did go through his windows, they would end up going through to other rooms. You might still do it. Police carbines could have been used.
Has anyone heard how long the guy continued to fire? I heard it was anywhere from 10 minutes to over an hour before they got into his room. So how long did he continue to fire before he stopped? I would have thought that sort of timeline would be out there.
I can't even picture the drop on a 9mm from a handgun at 500yds. Anyone that says they would have returned fire from anywhere in the vicinity is a *expletive deleted*ing moron.
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I was thinking if concealed handgun holders tried to fire back, they would probably end up putting bullets into nearby rooms. If they did go through his windows, they would end up going through to other rooms. You might still do it. Police carbines could have been used.
Has anyone heard how long the guy continued to fire? I heard it was anywhere from 10 minutes to over an hour before they got into his room. So how long did he continue to fire before he stopped? I would have thought that sort of timeline would be out there.
500 yards, up to the 32nd Floor, with a pistol, offhand, while taking fire?
It would take an amazing marksman to even get to "nearby rooms". This is a circumstance where a concealed pistol would not be any help whatsoever.
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Democrats also made calls for bills to enhance background checks, curb heavy-duty ammo and restrict high-capacity weapons.
I guess we have a new term now.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/10/04/dems-return-to-usual-script-on-gun-control-after-las-vegas-massacre.html
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Psycho dude was shooting at people 500 yards away. That would have been a short putt for ol' Carlos.
Yes, but he was at an extreme angle of elevation, he was behind mirrored glass, and the walls of the hotel are basically sheetrock. The hotel was occupied. Where would a bullet go if it missed him, or passed through him?
Counterfire was really not an option.
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Has anyone heard how long the guy continued to fire? I heard it was anywhere from 10 minutes to over an hour before they got into his room. So how long did he continue to fire before he stopped? I would have thought that sort of timeline would be out there.
Nine minutes. After that he went quiet.
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I know all the deaths and injuries are on the ahole shooter, but I am with Chris, I want to see a breakdown of the deaths and injuries by type (i.e. Shot or Trampled.)
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https://www.naturalnews.com/2017-10-02-lone-gunman-theory-of-las-vegas-shooter-is-complete-nonsense-stephen-paddock.html#
Now for some "humor" on the subject. I could write a book on each of his points to debunk them.
Wonderful...already the conspiracy theories start.
So.."Lee Harvey Paddock" wasn't a lone gunman? [tinfoil]
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Someone pointed out that it is curious how /pol/ has yet to find anything on the guy, except for a possible match in the video from an anti-Trump rally in August. Either he had no social media nor internet presence...or someone's scrubbing stuff, and done a good job of it. [tinfoil]
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Someone pointed out that it is curious how /pol/ has yet to find anything on the guy, except for a possible match in the video from an anti-Trump rally in August. Either he had no social media nor internet presence...or someone's scrubbing stuff, and done a good job of it. [tinfoil]
64 year old guy, doesn't appear to have any significant human connections, even to family. (Aside from the girlfriend). It would not be surprising if he has little to no social media/internet presence.
Although that does leave the question of how did he meet his Filipina girlfriend.
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64 year old guy, doesn't appear to have any significant human connections, even to family. (Aside from the girlfriend). It would not be surprising if he has little to no social media/internet presence.
Although that does leave the question of how did he meet his Filipina girlfriend.
Yup, age is a factor on the info digging. You want to find social media interactions on me? Other than here, good luck. Where I do interact outside of APS, it's all extremely benign stuff. You'll find few political/social opinions by me anywhere else (except I guess, archival, from when I posted on THR, TFL, and a little Usenet). As the population ages, that will change, but for now, there is a large segment of >50 year olds that have little or no social media presence. That's practically unheard of for millennials.
On the girlfriend, everyone keeps saying she was a "high stakes hostess". I have no idea what that means, other than he probably met her at a casino.
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64 year old guy, doesn't appear to have any significant human connections, even to family. (Aside from the girlfriend). It would not be surprising if he has little to no social media/internet presence.
Although that does leave the question of how did he meet his Filipina girlfriend.
Easy. He spent a lot of time in casinos. Her history includes having been a "high stakes hostess."
Agree with Ben on the social interaction stuff. I'm on this forum, the TFL forum, the M1911.org forum, and a Jeep club forum. Don't have a Twitter account, no Facebook, no LinkedIn, none of the "social media." Somebody with some moderate skills could probably penetrate my screen names without a lot of trouble, but the average search won't find much with my name on it except an occasional letter to the editor from many years ago, when people still read newspapers.
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I'm in the same boat as Ben. Being a cautious type by nature, plus having two decades of professional experience where image played a big chunk in determining success, I keep personal online traffic as innocuous as possible except for very limited venues like APS. Even here I try to keep the tone relatively pedestrian.
Brad
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So... What is heavy duty ammo?
I need to know so I can shock people by telling them how much of it I own, and while I'm betting whatever it is, we already have it, but in case we don't, obviously we need to stock up.
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Anyone know how reliable this web site is? The 3rd link has some video that seems to indicate gunfire from lower floors and claims multiple shooters.
http://yournewswire.com/las-vegas-bellagio-hotel-shooters/
Las Vegas: Bellagio Hotel Guests And Staff Confirm Multiple Shooters
http://yournewswire.com/las-vegas-staff-gunmen/
Las Vegas Casino Staff Saw ‘Multiple Gunmen’ During Shooting
http://yournewswire.com/hotel-guest-las-vegas-shooter/
Hotel Guest Next Door To Las Vegas Shooter Saw ‘Multiple Gunmen’
http://yournewswire.com/las-vegas-video-multiple-shootes/
Las Vegas: Video Footage Confirms Multiple Shooters, Co-ordinated Attack
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Psychiatric drugs were involved, so either the underlying condition he was being treated for was a bigger problem than the psychiatrist (scratch that, it was a GP) thought, or maybe it was relatively minor or not psych-related but the valium contributed to his full-on psychosis. Here comes the debate on psychiatry.
Records from the Nevada Prescription Monitoring Program obtained Tuesday show Paddock was prescribed 50 10-milligram diazepam tablets by Henderson physician Dr. Steven Winkler on June 21.
The Nevada state monitoring report also noted that Winkler prescribed 50 10-milligram tablets of diazepam to Paddock in 2016. He also filled that prescription the day it was written, this time at Evergreen Drugs in Henderson. It was for two tablets a day.
https://www.reviewjournal.com/local/the-strip/las-vegas-strip-shooter-prescribed-anti-anxiety-drug-in-june/
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I can't even picture the drop on a 9mm from a handgun at 500yds. Anyone that says they would have returned fire from anywhere in the vicinity is a *expletive deleted*ing moron.
Holdover for the 400-odd yards would be something like 32 feet for 9mm.
Unless you've got a Mauser Broomhandle or High Power Inglis with tangent sights, good frigging luck, because who the hell knows how much 32 feet looks like on the side of the gold mirror glass hotel at night?
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And so it begins: Feinstein wants a ban on bump stocks:
http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/04/politics/dianne-feinstein-gun-control-bump-stocks/index.html
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And so it begins: Feinstein wants a ban on bump stocks:
http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/04/politics/dianne-feinstein-gun-control-bump-stocks/index.html
1. I think the Sen. is a liar. If her daughter had actually been planning on going to that concert, she'd know the reason. At most Feinstien Jr. said "that's a neat looking concert" at dinner one night.
2. The quotes from her bill that I have seen on FB so far as to be so vague as to be unenforceable, and I'm pretty sure she can't get it through congress. I suspect she knows this and had something ready to go on the idea that she might get lucky and pass something, but worst case it gives her reelection ammo. I suspect she is that cynical.
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And so it begins: Feinstein wants a ban on bump stocks:
http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/04/politics/dianne-feinstein-gun-control-bump-stocks/index.html
You know she would be the first to trample over the bodies to file a bill.
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And so it begins: Feinstein wants a ban on bump stocks:
http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/04/politics/dianne-feinstein-gun-control-bump-stocks/index.html
I wonder how she's thinking to ban bump fire belt loops and jeans pockets, too.
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I wonder how she's thinking to ban bump fire belt loops and jeans pockets, too.
Don't forget that there's a string on the NFA registry... (Note the little metal tag that contains it's serial number...)
https://www.everydaynodaysoff.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/shoestring-machinegun.jpg
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1. I think the Sen. is a liar. If her daughter had actually been planning on going to that concert, she'd know the reason. At most Feinstien Jr. said "that's a neat looking concert" at dinner one night.
2. The quotes from her bill that I have seen on FB so far as to be so vague as to be unenforceable, and I'm pretty sure she can't get it through congress. I suspect she knows this and had something ready to go on the idea that she might get lucky and pass something, but worst case it gives her reelection ammo. I suspect she is that cynical.
Feinstein's daughter a country music fan? Possible, I suppose, but...
Oh, and move over, heavy-duty ammo:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/las-vegas-shooting-stephen-paddock-made-his-guns-even-deadlier/?ftag=CNM-00-10aab7e&linkId=43106336
...while the guns that Stephen Paddock used to shoot more than 500 people in Las Vegas fired automatic rounds, they were perfectly legal...
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Here's my thought. Feinstein and company are going to take their biggest shot up front, in the wake of the tragedy with blood still on the pavement. If stocks, cranks, binary triggers, etc. are her swing for the fence, things have certainly changed a lot. And in our favor...
Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going shopping for an AR before prices climb through the roof in the upcoming panic.
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Hey, what's a "non-certified collector"?
https://twitchy.com/sd-3133/2017/10/04/2d-amendment-sucks-geraldo-makes-fact-free-case-against-guns/
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We expect to see legislation introduced to ban bump stocks at the next session of the Washington Legislature.
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We expect to see legislation introduced to ban bump stocks at the next session of the Washington Legislature.
God forbid those d-bags in Olympia allow a good tragedy go to waste. I expect another run at banning "assault weapons" in WA also. They won't quit until everyone who opposes it moves out of state and they can run it through (if only I were kidding :( ).
bob
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Removed because I paranoia-posted. [tinfoil]
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Back on the suppressor thing. I do not know if it would have mattered in this case, only missing on what the not 45th president doesn't know. In a sustained firing situation the shooter may be located by visible muzzle blast which a can will large manage. So it could be an advantage sometime, not that senator Clinton would know that.
Counterfire? Who said pistols, not me. You imagine that in a large town like that there are patrol rifles that have a published 500yd max effective range and hopefully an optic. Not ideal, but if potentially hundreds of people are getting shot any responders with rifles have no real good options beyond hose down where the flash comes from. Are there other hotel rooms? Sure are. Less people there than are dying with you, first shot from a 5.56 likely breaks up on hitting an unbroken window and firing at an upward angle you will soon hit ceilings of concrete, making only a small triangle of surrounding rooms a lethal area. Do you hit the shooter? Who knows, who cares. Maybe he retreats into the large area of his room you can't hit. Maybe he sees resistance and offs himself. Anything that slows the rate of outgoing fire is a good thing.
Again, who knows if it mattered in this situation. Maybe fire was returned, I hope so. I do think in some situations a suppressor would make it harder to fight back against for exactly none of the reasons Clinton had. I think it is a legit consideration for any cops with a patrol rifles to know their zero on something more than a 25 yd range and to look at this mess as something that they may face.
Now Joe citizen with a pistol? YMMV max probably 150 yards if there is an ideal situation of not worrying about stray bullets. Again, not for center of mass hits, just suppression of an ongoing shooting where the risk of imprecise fire is outweighed by the certainty of everyone dying. I shoot my pistols a lot at 100 yards, no one shooting back is a nice touch though.
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I doubt anyone shooting back would have hit the guy.
But if they managed to get his attention, they may have been able to draw his fire, allowing others to escape.
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If that is him, I hope somebody's capturing any videos like that independently before the antifas start cleansing them from the net.
Terry
Someone pointed out that it is curious how /pol/ has yet to find anything on the guy, except for a possible match in the video from an anti-Trump rally in August. Either he had no social media nor internet presence...or someone's scrubbing stuff, and done a good job of it. [tinfoil]
Probably not tinfoil.
If I were the principal investigator, I'd be moving heaven and earth to get an immediate search warrant for his brother's e-mail and other correspondence toot sweet.
Terry
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Don't forget that there's a string on the NFA registry... (Note the little metal tag that contains it's serial number...)
https://www.everydaynodaysoff.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/shoestring-machinegun.jpg
The string is actually a registered NFA? Never knew that part. I wonder what you would have to register it as if someone wanted to do that? :angel:
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It would take an amazing marksman to even get to "nearby rooms". This is a circumstance where a concealed pistol would not be any help whatsoever.
Now, now.
Steven Seagal would have picked off each of the sniper's bullets in mid-air ...
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Oh, the BUTF backtracked on that interpretation of a shoelace being a machine gun, didn't they? I recall seeing a letter to that effect.
I was amused because a strict reading of the actual law actually did make the shoelace a "machinegun," but after warding off a crapload of protests (and laughter), they found a way to regulatorily weasel out of it. I believe that's the present status of the "shoelace machinegun" thing.
What was so amusing (and frightening) to me was how words could be so manipulated to switch something from "A" to "B," the complete opposite of the original meaning.
Hence my concern about any legal tinkering with any "bump firing" stocks or techniques. What they define today can be modified tomorrow, either by direct amendment in the legislative process, or as in the shoelace case, by regulatory word games.
Terry
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Counterfire? Who said pistols, not me. You imagine that in a large town like that there are patrol rifles that have a published 500yd max effective range and hopefully an optic. Not ideal, but if potentially hundreds of people are getting shot any responders with rifles have no real good options beyond hose down where the flash comes from. Are there other hotel rooms? Sure are. Less people there than are dying with you, first shot from a 5.56 likely breaks up on hitting an unbroken window and firing at an upward angle you will soon hit ceilings of concrete, making only a small triangle of surrounding rooms a lethal area. Do you hit the shooter? Who knows, who cares. Maybe he retreats into the large area of his room you can't hit. Maybe he sees resistance and offs himself. Anything that slows the rate of outgoing fire is a good thing.
Most patrol rifles are basically M4s, or 16" AR-15 carbines. 500 yards is about the absolute maximum effective range, but there's no way they're zeroed for 500 yards (and 32 stories up). The bullet drop for M193 or M855 is around 36 to 42 inches -- call it three feet. But I had to look that up, and I carried an M16 around Vietnam. I'm sure no cop knows what the 500 yard bullet drop is. There's no way they'd take that shot.
"Less people there than are dying with you ..." Yes, but those people are being shot by the bad guy. Cops shooting hotel guests through windows while trying to walk their fire in on the 32d floor would be a PR nightmare for the city and the department. And probably result in criminal charges against any officer dumb enough to try it.
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Most patrol rifles are basically M4s, or 16" AR-15 carbines. 500 yards is about the absolute maximum effective range, but there's no way they're zeroed for 500 yards (and 32 stories up). The bullet drop for M193 or M855 is around 36 to 42 inches -- call it three feet. But I had to look that up, and I carried an M16 around Vietnam. I'm sure no cop knows what the 500 yard bullet drop is. There's no way they'd take that shot.
"Less people there than are dying with you ..." Yes, but those people are being shot by the bad guy. Cops shooting hotel guests through windows while trying to walk their fire in on the 32d floor would be a PR nightmare for the city and the department. And probably result in criminal charges against any officer dumb enough to try it.
Might be a PR nightmare. Certainly better than the alternative I think. They do nothing; people ARE being gunned down. Return fire; MAYBE a hotel guest gets hit, also likely to either cause the shooter to bring his attention on you instead of innocent civilians, maybe get lucky and hit him, or possibly cause him to see resistance and simply kill himself which so many mass shooters seem to do the moment resistance happens. I think the benefit far outweighs the risk.
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Might be a PR nightmare. Certainly better than the alternative I think. They do nothing; people ARE being gunned down. Return fire; MAYBE a hotel guest gets hit, also likely to either cause the shooter to bring his attention on you instead of innocent civilians, maybe get lucky and hit him, or possibly cause him to see resistance and simply kill himself which so many mass shooters seem to do the moment resistance happens. I think the benefit far outweighs the risk.
Considering the odds are about 1000:1 in favor of hitting an innocent hotel guest rather than the shooter, I'd have to disagree with you. I think the risk FAR outweighs the potential benfit.
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Psychiatric drugs were involved, so either the underlying condition he was being treated for was a bigger problem than the psychiatrist thought, or it was relatively minor but the valium contributed to his full-on psychosis. Here comes the debate on psychiatry.
What psychiatrist? Dr Winkler's practice is internal medicine.
Diazepam isn't that unusual for muscle spasms, and I had it briefly as part of a rotation through different pile-o-pills migraine treatments; it was to treat the possible anxiety that was a moderately common side effect of the drug that was supposed to treat the actual migraine. (Name of that one escapes me as it's been over a decade.) It was "up to two per day as needed," and contact the office again ASAP if that's not enough or I needed a refill, but I think I only took it once.
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The bullet drop for M193 or M855 is around 36 to 42 inches -- call it three feet.
While I can see why it would never be an issue in jungle combat, knowing the max effective range, roughly what that looks like, and the drop at that range for a rifle seems pretty basic if one is carrying it in open terrain where one can usually see that far in any direction other than straight up. If nothing else it provides a quick reality check of knowing that the drop closer in shouldn't be more than that. Conveniently, the above mentioned drop is roughly half a large man, so you even have a handy reference at range.
Now, I seriously doubt a suite at the Mandalay has less than 8' ceilings, and I'd be really surprised if there's not enough structure in it to stop small arms fire, (remember that poured concrete as a fireproof way to keep from hearing complaints every time the guy upstairs takes a step is fairly common even down to Motel 6) then it doesn't take Hathcock to figure out to aim for the upper edge of the window with the first shots. Maybe carefully walk them down a bit after that, but just blowing some dust off the ceiling should give the shooter something else to think about. As for the overall range, approaching as much as possible before/while firing would also have the advantage of drawing any return fire away from the retreating mass of people. Covering 50-100 yards at a time fairly quickly (once you're outside the fence) isn't that hard to do, especially with the adrenalin you're going to be running on at that point.
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Thank goodness - Michael Moore has found the answer.
https://www.facebook.com/mmflint/posts/10154778028796857
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Considering the odds are about 1000:1 in favor of hitting an innocent hotel guest rather than the shooter, I'd have to disagree with you. I think the risk FAR outweighs the potential benfit.
Those numbers are made up. And you don't have to hit the shooter. The risk of hitting an innocent person, while innocent people are at that very moment actually being hit and killed around you, outweighs the potential benefit of stopping that? I don't think so.
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Thank goodness - Michael Moore has found the answer.
https://www.facebook.com/mmflint/posts/10154778028796857
As over 90% of gun violence is committed by men, in order for a man to purchase a gun, he must first get a waiver from his current wife, plus his most recent ex-wife, or any woman with whom he is currently in a relationship (if he’s gay, he must get the waiver from his male spouse/partner). This law has greatly reduced most spousal/domestic gun murders in Canada.
Since it's Michael Moore, I figured the "spouse permission" thing in Canada was a lie. However I looked it up and they actually want your spouse's signature, or your former spouse's signature, if you are or were married. Though it doesn't appear to be required - they will simply notify them that you have a gun (which is pretty commie all on its own). Bottom line, it's notification, not "permission" or a "waiver", and it appears to apply to both sexes (or however many they have in Canada nowadays). So really, Moore IS lying. Again.
http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/form-formulaire/pdfs/5592-eng.pdf
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So really, Moore IS lying. Again.
If you won't lie, to push gun control, you are complicit.
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Thank goodness - Michael Moore has found the answer.
https://www.facebook.com/mmflint/posts/10154778028796857
The comments, largely, are equally if not more ...... whacky.
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Could of been worse .... [ar15]
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/10/report-las-vegas-gunman-stephen-paddock-targeted-massive-aviation-fuel-tanks/
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Could of been worse .... [ar15]
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/10/report-las-vegas-gunman-stephen-paddock-targeted-massive-aviation-fuel-tanks/
You mean he could have done far more damage by bombing those tanks, using no guns at all? Don't wreck the narrative, bro!
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Too much doesn't add up.
If you look at the floor plan (http://www.lasvegas.net/UserFiles/Image/mandalaybayvistasuitefloorplan_644.gif) of his Vista suite and the exterior view (https://pmcvariety.files.wordpress.com/2017/10/ap_17275498021240.jpg), it looks like he went into the next room to break out another window. Why leave the suite when there are 3 windows in the suite he could have broken?
Multiple witnesses said there were multiple shooters, and there were several videos of what looks like muzzle flash on about floor 7-10? Some have been removed by youtube already. Officer says it was probably someone playing with a strobe light. riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. [tinfoil]
Some of the gunfire in the videos sounded like it could be a bumpfire, but some of it was also too consistent to be bumpfire. Nobody can keep it going that steady for that long. Especially an older guy that his family says 'didn't like guns'
I see neat stacks of loaded Surefire magazines in the pics, and lots of guns haphazard around the suite. Where is the spent brass and empty mags? 10 minutes at that rate of fire in the same general direction would produce a mountain of it.
Room service receipt looked like an order for two people. Maybe the other person was the woman ejected from the concert earlier for screaming 'you're all going to die'?
Who went in and out of that room? Where is the hall footage from the hotel security cams? You know it exists.
Like it or not, ISIS has been reliable when they claimed they were involved.
I'm not going full blown conspiracy theory, but this doesn't pass the smell test. The media and authorities aren't telling the whole story.
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Too much doesn't add up.
Multiple witnesses said there were multiple shooters, and there were several videos of what looks like muzzle flash on about floor 7-10? Some have been removed by youtube already. Officer says it was probably someone playing with a strobe light. riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. [tinfoil]
I'm not going full blown conspiracy theory, but this doesn't pass the smell test. The media and authorities aren't telling the whole story.
If so, why aren't there other windows broken out?
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If so, why aren't there other windows broken out?
I'm not sure where the cutoff is, but apparently the lower floors have Windows that open.
police also discussed a shooter on the 4th floor o er the radio.
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So, even if lower floor windows do open, how has that part not leaked hard yet? Is the Mandalay complicit in the coverup, or did they just not notice a bunch of much closer gunshots and a few piles of brass several hundred feet from where the shooter was supposed to be?
Also interesting; here's video showing a flashing light in the same location two hours before the shooting. Those must be some really slow bullets.
https://www.instagram.com/p/BZwofXcgzh9/
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I'm not going full blown conspiracy theory, but this doesn't pass the smell test. The media and authorities aren't telling the whole story.
Lone wolf is the least beneficial story for them, though; if they say multiple shooters, then they would have a pile of excuses for any delay or mistake.
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Too much doesn't add up.
If you look at the floor plan (http://www.lasvegas.net/UserFiles/Image/mandalaybayvistasuitefloorplan_644.gif) of his Vista suite and the exterior view (https://pmcvariety.files.wordpress.com/2017/10/ap_17275498021240.jpg), it looks like he went into the next room to break out another window. Why leave the suite when there are 3 windows in the suite he could have broken?
Looking for a different view more than likely.
Multiple witnesses said there were multiple shooters, and there were several videos of what looks like muzzle flash on about floor 7-10? Some have been removed by youtube already. Officer says it was probably someone playing with a strobe light. riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. [tinfoil]
Multiple extremely unreliable witnesses.
Several videos are showing light reflections, this is Vegas. Also, the lights keep going even after the shooting has stopped.
Some of the gunfire in the videos sounded like it could be a bumpfire, but some of it was also too consistent to be bumpfire. Nobody can keep it going that steady for that long. Especially an older guy that his family says 'didn't like guns'
I put zero stock in what his brother has said, either he's lying or simply doesn't know.
I see neat stacks of loaded Surefire magazines in the pics, and lots of guns haphazard around the suite. Where is the spent brass and empty mags? 10 minutes at that rate of fire in the same general direction would produce a mountain of it.
We only see a small portion of the hotel room in the leaked pictures. You see some brass. Most is probably either ejected out the window, behind the couch, near the curtain, or on the other side of the room that there have been no leaked pictures of. If he was simply dropping an empty gun and picking up a new one, the empty mags would be in the gun.
Room service receipt looked like an order for two people. Maybe the other person was the woman ejected from the concert earlier for screaming 'you're all going to die'?
Room service receipt has a date that ends in a 7, he didn't check in until the 28th. It's fake. Not discounting the idea that there was another person in the room with him though, there was no other floor shooter though.
Who went in and out of that room? Where is the hall footage from the hotel security cams? You know it exists.
All the pictures we have are what was leaked. No official footage has been released. If they haven't released official pictures, why would they release the security camera footage?
Like it or not, ISIS has been reliable when they claimed they were involved.
ISIS has claimed responsibility for everything. I would hardly call them reliable.
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For.the most part I agree with freakazoid.
However, I have absolutely no faith in the FBI as to their ability to tell the truth, about anything.
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I put zero stock in what his brother has said, either he's lying or simply doesn't know.
....
Yes. From yesterday:
If I were the principal investigator, I'd be moving heaven and earth to get an immediate search warrant for his brother's e-mail and other correspondence toot sweet.
Terry
And I agree with RKL on the FBI telling the truth on anything.
" [tinfoil] "
Terry, 230RN
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Those numbers are made up. And you don't have to hit the shooter. The risk of hitting an innocent person, while innocent people are at that very moment actually being hit and killed around you, outweighs the potential benefit of stopping that? I don't think so.
The difference is that the innocent people around you are being hit by the bad guy. If you start shooting hotel guests with counter fire, then you have innocents being shot by the police. That's just NOT good policy. That's like the Spanish Inquisition policy of "In order to save your soul we have to kill you."
As for expecting street cops to be trained to use their patrol rifles at 500+ yards? That's not realistic. For distances like that I suspect that every department in the country relies on the SWAT team's sniper. A couple or three years ago I took a citizen's police academy course with the PD in the neighboring town. Population just over 16,000 people, police force has 43 sworn officers. They have a SWAT team, and they have two designated snipers. The sniper rifles are on a par with the best our U.S. military snipers use. They are NOT patrol carbines.
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Some of the gunfire in the videos sounded like it could be a bumpfire, but some of it was also too consistent to be bumpfire. Nobody can keep it going that steady for that long. Especially an older guy that his family says 'didn't like guns'
His family obviously didn't know anything about him. He had been buying guns for 35 years, and had an "arsenal" of 43 firearms at the time of the incident. He also had either a hunting or a fishing license from Alaska. Ignore the family. They don't know any more than we do.
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The difference is that the innocent people around you are being hit by the bad guy. If you start shooting hotel guests with counter fire, then you have innocents being shot by the police. That's just NOT good policy. That's like the Spanish Inquisition policy of "In order to save your soul we have to kill you."
As for expecting street cops to be trained to use their patrol rifles at 500+ yards? That's not realistic. For distances like that I suspect that every department in the country relies on the SWAT team's sniper. A couple or three years ago I took a citizen's police academy course with the PD in the neighboring town. Population just over 16,000 people, police force has 43 sworn officers. They have a SWAT team, and they have two designated snipers. The sniper rifles are on a par with the best our U.S. military snipers use. They are NOT patrol carbines.
Take it with a grain of salt, but I was watching some TV show about swat/police snipers. A stupid majority of the shots they take are within the 100 yard range. Urban swat teams generally just need the precision shot of the sniper, not the long range shoot and scoot like a military sniper would do.
Anyone remember the sniper shooting the pistol out of the suicidal guys hand?
https://youtu.be/AHvWaviIXsk
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The difference is that the innocent people around you are being hit by the bad guy. If you start shooting hotel guests with counter fire, then you have innocents being shot by the police. That's just NOT good policy. That's like the Spanish Inquisition policy of "In order to save your soul we have to kill you."
As for expecting street cops to be trained to use their patrol rifles at 500+ yards? That's not realistic. For distances like that I suspect that every department in the country relies on the SWAT team's sniper. A couple or three years ago I took a citizen's police academy course with the PD in the neighboring town. Population just over 16,000 people, police force has 43 sworn officers. They have a SWAT team, and they have two designated snipers. The sniper rifles are on a par with the best our U.S. military snipers use. They are NOT patrol carbines.
Collateral damage. *expletive deleted*it happens. If I had been one of the guests in the hotel and they did that and I got hit, but it stopped him from shooting; sucks to be me but worth it. Hitting hotel guests isn't a guarantee. Not doing anything guarantees that more people will be shot and killed though. You can make the choice to maybe hit someone in the hotel, or make the choice to allow others to get hit below by him.
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The dude was shooting for 9 min. The hypothetical cop would have been better off taking the 2.5 min to jog 1/4 mile to the hotel, and then the 1 min to ride the elevator up, and then shooting him from inside the room, rather than take long shots.
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that a vast majority of LEO's with AR's in their trunks don't know a .223's 500m ballistics, don't have BDC optics, and if they have A2 iron sights, don't know what that little wheel in the carrying handle is for.
Not to mention the difference between qualifying at 100m and in on a carbine, and going for a semi precision shot. Not exactly the same trigger/breath control there. That's the amateur hour analysis.
Assuming you got the 1 of the handful of cops in Vegas they knew all that, they'd know they didn't have the dope handy for the extra elevation holdover, they had no way of estimating the winds at 32 floors up and between skyscrapers, at night and they would be better off counting floors up and windows in and radioing the guys position to the folks that were closing in.
Returning fire from street level is a fools game unless we got lucky and one of the precision marksman, AND his rifle were at the concert.
Freak, I don't know if you are being internet hard, or really think that, but no LEO agency, and hopefully no individual cops are going to actually say "*expletive deleted*ck those innocents, I guess it's collateral damage." before they start shooting.
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Collateral damage. *expletive deleted*it happens. If I had been one of the guests in the hotel and they did that and I got hit, but it stopped him from shooting; sucks to be me but worth it. Hitting hotel guests isn't a guarantee. Not doing anything guarantees that more people will be shot and killed though. You can make the choice to maybe hit someone in the hotel, or make the choice to allow others to get hit below by him.
If I was in a hotel room that night and anybody in my family was "collateral damage", you can bet I will be suing the *expletive deleted*it out of anybody and everybody because that is a bad decision. I would also bet that any jury would rule in my favor.
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Take it with a grain of salt, but I was watching some TV show about swat/police snipers. A stupid majority of the shots they take are within the 100 yard range. Urban swat teams generally just need the precision shot of the sniper, not the long range shoot and scoot like a military sniper would do.
This Summer, I was at the range with a friend and his BIL. BIL was a LEO firearms trainer in Canada (don't recall which province) and he confirmed what JJ said above. They train for extreme precision over short distances. Handgun was only out to 15yds or so and rifle was within 100yds, with most engagements being closer to 50 IIRC. The goal was precision and keeping the bullets out of innocent bystanders and property. The BIL was a trainer before the new standards and said the shift in training took place over time as they evaluated how firearms were used and under what circumstances.
Chris
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Just listening to the news this morning, what was originally tinfoil for me is now an official statement by the LV Sheriff -- that there was more than one person involved. He didn't mention shooting, but he said multiple people were involved with planning. I don't know if he went off the reservation regarding anything the FBI is doing. Also mentioned was that he "planned for his escape". The fuel tanks were mentioned as a potential diversion.
Also it was reported that none of the cameras he had setup were recording. I try to keep the tinfoil hat off, but some of the stuff that officials are throwing out this morning has me wondering.
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Just listening to the news this morning, what was originally tinfoil for me is now an official statement by the LV Sheriff -- that there was more than one person involved. He didn't mention shooting, but he said multiple people were involved with planning. I don't know if he went off the reservation regarding anything the FBI is doing. Also mentioned was that he "planned for his escape". The fuel tanks were mentioned as a potential diversion.
Also it was reported that none of the cameras he had setup were recording. I try to keep the tinfoil hat off, but some of the stuff that officials are throwing out this morning has me wondering.
Just proving that they are complete idiots and don't know a damn thing other than one guy right now was found dead in a room from where several hundred shots were fired.
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Also this all happened because of "white man rage". Funny how they never addressed "Islam man rage".
https://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2017/10/05/now-do-chicago-cnn-may-have-written-the-dumbest-op-ed-yet-about-white-men-and-guns/
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From what I know of the people on this forum (not much, thankfully :P), I think I am one of the better trained and more practiced rifle/carbine shooters. I feel highly confident shooting my carbines at human torso-sized targets inside 200 yards. Beyond that, my confidence drops quickly. To hit that Vegas shooter, at that distance and elevation change, under those conditions, I would need several shots and a spotter to walk the rounds on target. There is no way I would have attempted to return fire in that scenario.
Talking about snipers and shooting distances: Jeff Gonzales was a sniper with the Navy Seals. He once told us that he would never guarantee a 1st shot hit beyond 100 meters and that was under nice, shooting range conditions.
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Also this all happened because of "white man rage". Funny how they never addressed "Islam man rage".
https://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2017/10/05/now-do-chicago-cnn-may-have-written-the-dumbest-op-ed-yet-about-white-men-and-guns/
I wonder if they want to drive more white people into the "alt-right," or just provoke us into pointing out uncomfortable truths about which demographic groups are more inclined to misuse firearms. I guess either is a win for them.
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From what I know of the people on this forum (not much, thankfully :P), I think I am one of the better trained and more practiced rifle/carbine shooters. I feel highly confident shooting my carbines at human torso-sized targets inside 200 yards. Beyond that, my confidence drops quickly. To hit that Vegas shooter, at that distance and elevation change, under those conditions, I would need several shots and a spotter to walk the rounds on target. There is no way I would have attempted to return fire in that scenario.
Talking about snipers and shooting distances: Jeff Gonzales was a sniper with the Navy Seals. He once told us that he would never guarantee a 1st shot hit beyond 100 meters and that was under nice, shooting range conditions.
I agree.
I routinely shoot steel at 600-800, and hit the 1000yd line at least once a year. But not with patrol carbines. That's a tough shot for a practiced shooter with good optics. And as you say, likely not a first round hit.
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When out doing predator control (coyotes and feral hogs) it's pretty common to take a 100-150 yard snap shot but that's with a 100 yd zero, good optics, and a rifle I'm intimately familiar with. Beyond that, no dice. Holdover and general conditional variations make anything beyond about 200 yds a no-go zone.
Brad
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I agree.
I routinely shoot steel at 600-800, and hit the 1000yd line at least once a year. But not with patrol carbines. That's a tough shot for a practiced shooter with good optics. And as you say, likely not a first round hit.
I took a long range rifle class around 6-7 years ago. I hit the 1000 yard steel, but it took till almost till the end of the class. It was an 8 hour class. Admittedly 4 hours of classroom and a couple of hours spent closer in, but still. That was with a scoped 7MM. I also haven't practiced anywhere past 200 yards in several years. If you're not shooting that long distance all the time, I'm thinking, "good luck".
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I took a long range rifle class around 6-7 years ago. I hit the 1000 yard steel, but it took till almost till the end of the class. It was an 8 hour class. Admittedly 4 hours of classroom and a couple of hours spent closer in, but still. That was with a scoped 7MM. I also haven't practiced anywhere past 200 yards in several years. If you're not shooting that long distance all the time, I'm thinking, "good luck".
Yeah, the hit rate isn't great. But one can only afford so much .50 ammo for practice.
On topic, I think a lot of folks don't really know how tough that shot would be to make. The LV shooter was just dumping rounds into an area target. Returning any kind of precise fire would be tough.
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Based on the news I've seen this morning:
1) There's a run on bump stocks. Slide Fire has apparently stopped selling them on their website. No word on if they're sold out or just stopped selling.
2) I saw about a half dozen congressmen interviewed this morning. All of them favored banning bump stocks. All had an R next to their name. I'm going by my supposition that this is an easy way for the Rs to get ahead of things without affecting other gun rights. "Bump fire gone, check the box".
3) No word on if anyone is planning on banning 3D printer files.
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Freak, I don't know if you are being internet hard, or really think that, but no LEO agency, and hopefully no individual cops are going to actually say "*expletive deleted*ck those innocents, I guess it's collateral damage." before they start shooting.
LV Metro PD might.
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I think a lot of folks don't really know how tough that shot would be to make. The LV shooter was just dumping rounds into an area target. Returning any kind of precise fire would be tough.
I agree based on what I have heard. I think he shot more than "several hundred rounds". I also believe he had the bump fire device installed. I suspect you will find them restricted in the future.
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Based on the news I've seen this morning:
2) I saw about a half dozen congressmen interviewed this morning. All of them favored banning bump stocks. All had an R next to their name. I'm going by my supposition that this is an easy way for the Rs to get ahead of things without affecting other gun rights. "Bump fire gone, check the box".
I would love to see them tack the bump stock ban onto the Hearing protection Act. A good way to reach the objective of both issues, plus it would make D heads explode knowing they would have to vote for it in order to bring forth "sensible gun control".
I was listening to some guy this morning on the drive in and he couldn't understand why someone would need 1600 rounds of ammo, I wish I could have told him that *might* last someone like me about 3 days at the range.
bob
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I would love to see them tack the bump stock ban onto the Hearing protection Act. A good way to reach the objective of both issues, plus it would make D heads explode knowing they would have to vote for it in order to bring forth "sensible gun control".
I like this idea. While any more restrictions is still a loss, I think the bump stocks are gonna go no matter what at this point. Might as well get something in exchange.
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I like this idea. While any more restrictions is still a loss, I think the bump stocks are gonna go no matter what at this point. Might as well get something in exchange.
As long as we're banning something useless, let's get something useful. I don't think we'll get much of anything, though. It would be just like our beloved GOP, that the only campaign promise they let their president fulfill, legislatively, is that of banning a novelty gun accessory. ;/
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The ammo comments by the News people are just the standard anti-gun comments. Many people can shoot up 1000 center fire rounds in a couple range sessions. I'm not one of them, because I couldn't afford such a habit and have little interest in that kind of thing anyway.
I can't see any kind of legislation passing with "ammo limits" or limits to the amount you can store. If the anti-gun folks try to include to many of their feel good additions to a bump fire restriction, I don't think the bill will pass. I would make the bump fire and similar devices a Class III item if they intend to do anything.
Added: Here is a tasty news tidbit on automatic weapons found during a traffic stop. Not related to Las Vegas, but folks may find it interesting here. http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/breakingnews/story/2017/oct/04/sheriff-arrest-mguns-made-all-difference/452753/
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I like this idea. While any more restrictions is still a loss, I think the bump stocks are gonna go no matter what at this point. Might as well get something in exchange.
Don't bet on getting *expletive deleted*it in exchange. Expect any pending pro legislation to go away and a big fight coming for banning evil bump stocks and probably some other features.
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I'm glad I'm not the only who noticed the sudden invention of "automatic rounds."
http://www.dailywire.com/news/21978/fake-news-cbs-makes-bogus-term-describe-ammo-used-ryan-saavedra
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Too much doesn't add up.
If you look at the floor plan (http://www.lasvegas.net/UserFiles/Image/mandalaybayvistasuitefloorplan_644.gif) of his Vista suite and the exterior view (https://pmcvariety.files.wordpress.com/2017/10/ap_17275498021240.jpg), it looks like he went into the next room to break out another window. Why leave the suite when there are 3 windows in the suite he could have broken?
Multiple witnesses said there were multiple shooters, and there were several videos of what looks like muzzle flash on about floor 7-10? Some have been removed by youtube already. Officer says it was probably someone playing with a strobe light. riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. [tinfoil]
Some of the gunfire in the videos sounded like it could be a bumpfire, but some of it was also too consistent to be bumpfire. Nobody can keep it going that steady for that long. Especially an older guy that his family says 'didn't like guns'
I see neat stacks of loaded Surefire magazines in the pics, and lots of guns haphazard around the suite. Where is the spent brass and empty mags? 10 minutes at that rate of fire in the same general direction would produce a mountain of it.
Room service receipt looked like an order for two people. Maybe the other person was the woman ejected from the concert earlier for screaming 'you're all going to die'?
Who went in and out of that room? Where is the hall footage from the hotel security cams? You know it exists.
Like it or not, ISIS has been reliable when they claimed they were involved.
I'm not going full blown conspiracy theory, but this doesn't pass the smell test. The media and authorities aren't telling the whole story.
Is there something about bumpstocks that makes a AR- 15 so uncontrollable a 64 year old couldn't accomplish what Paddock did? I'm 62 and firing centerfire rifles doesn't particularly stress me. However I have no experience with bumpstocks, I've always thought they were a stupid novelty useful only for wasting ammo.
This guy had four days at the hotel to prepare. Is there some reason a moderately healthy, but not infirm, 64 year old couldn't get ready to do this I don't know about?
I know some authorities are now speculating he did have an accomplice. Maybe. I dunno.
I guess what I'm getting at is that a 64 year old man is not necessarily a decrepit weakling.....
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The people I have seen with bump stocks vary wildly. Some are very good with them because they have practiced while others are dismal, can't hit a thing and keep jamming their weapon. If he had practiced at all it would be very easy for him to do what he did. I have seen people bump their semi guns from the hip by just hooking their thumb in a belt loop and be pretty proficient at it. They should be thanking their lucky stars he didn't have any API rounds (afaik) for his AR10 that was reported as being there. That would have been the round for the fuel storage tanks.
bob
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I'm glad I'm not the only who noticed the sudden invention of "automatic rounds."
http://www.dailywire.com/news/21978/fake-news-cbs-makes-bogus-term-describe-ammo-used-ryan-saavedra
Is it all that sudden? .45 ACP, .45 GAP We all know what the A stands for. I think the MSM just found out and is trying to leverage it.
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When out doing predator control (coyotes and feral hogs) it's pretty common to take a 100-150 yard snap shot but that's with a 100 yd zero, good optics, and a rifle I'm intimately familiar with. Beyond that, no dice. Holdover and general conditional variations make anything beyond about 200 yds a no-go zone.
A friend in Pennsylvania periodically goes groundhog hunting. He doesn't think it's sporting at less than 500 yards -- but his varmint rifle is a .243 with about a 20x scope on it. Definitely not a patrol rifle (which is usually not a rifle but a carbine, anyway).
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The NRA caves on bump stocks: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/nra-statement-urging-new-regulations-bump-stocks-article-1.3543623
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The NRA caves on bump stocks: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/nra-statement-urging-new-regulations-bump-stocks-article-1.3543623
Well, that was quick. What's the angle? Improved PR image for a device that not many people use anyways?
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Don't bet on getting *expletive deleted*it in exchange. Expect any pending pro legislation to go away and a big fight coming for banning evil bump stocks and probably some other features.
This is what worries me. Bump stocks are stupid as all get out, but I really don't want the libtards looking to close at some of the other clever little accessories people have come up with to not break NFA.
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Well, that was quick. What's the angle? Improved PR image for a device that not many people use anyways?
Not a very smart move. I have a feeling that the majority of their membership may think bump stocks are as stupid as all get out, but still would fight to keep them legal.
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I don't understand the questions about the ability to shoot 1000 rounds either. If they are loaded in mags and you have more than one rifle to shoot them, it isn't physically impossible. My Dad and I fired off 10 or 12 mags with a slide fire stock. It wasn't difficult to do it. It was a little difficult to keep it firing while keeping it under control. That was a few years ago and I haven't used that stock since.
However, I don't want them caving on it. IMO, any effort to cave is just caving to the media. If they didn't cave after the school shooting a few years back, why cave in for this. The ONLY moderately acceptable reason to do it would be to get other things in return. I would still be afraid they would outlaw belt loops with stupid language.
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A friend in Pennsylvania periodically goes groundhog hunting. He doesn't think it's sporting at less than 500 yards -- but his varmint rifle is a .243 with about a 20x scope on it. Definitely not a patrol rifle (which is usually not a rifle but a carbine, anyway).
But does the contract under which Satan holds his soul actually have terms preventing cops from learning to do the same, or is it possible your friend just can't recite the plot of every episode of Game of Thrones and every HS/college/pro football game played during the times he "ain't got time to practice?"
And, unless there was reason to believe the guy had duct taped pregnant nuns to every inch of the room except where he was shooting out of, then the safe target area isn't human torso sized, it's roughly 8' high and (guessing by the room map) 50+ feet wide. Yes, you need better than that to kill him, but just keeping him distracted would save lives. Even Whitman resorted to shooting through the scuppers once there was meaningful return fire. No telling how many people didn't get shot because they weren't on the limited field of fire that offered him. The Vegas shooter wouldn't have had any real cover to get behind.
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Just wait until the media discovers binary triggers.....
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Just wait until the media discovers binary triggers.....
SSSHHHHH!!
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The NRA wants to trade bumpstocks for Nat. Recip. CCW. That's where this is heading.
And Nat. Recip. has been a much higher legislative priority for the NRA than the HPA has ever been. They want it to override all the no-issue and may-issue states that are de-facto no-issue right now, and scare the hell out of them. Not a terrible strategy since I think the CCW fight that's been going on state by state since the 80's has done a lot for the pro-gun side in the minds of the unwashed middle ground. When the anti's have all the "blood in the streets" predictions, and then... nothing ever happens, it normalizes guns further and makes the anti's look like the fearmongers they are.
And also, it's politically astute, because for the first time, a gun control "compromise" will be an actual compromise. For far too long "Compromise" has been that the Anti's want it all, but will settle for only taking some. (figuring they'll come back for it later) A false definition. The true definition of compromise is where both sides either get something they want, or both agree to give up something they want, that the other does not want them to have.
Such a precedent could go a long way to preventing the legislative anti-gun ratchet effect.
Honestly, I'm "meh" on the whole thing. I don't care a whit about bumpstocks. They're shoddy Tapcof'ery gimmicks for the most part. (I know there's some newer ones that look/feel better, but still...) And I feel guilty for that, because I know I shouldn't care/not care over a firearm category just because I myself don't enjoy it. That's trampling on Fudd territory. However, it is what it is. I have to be honest about my feelings.
The other reason I'm "meh" on this is that with Nat. Recip. I fear it'll be a paper tiger, like the FOPA traveler protections. NYC and NJ has been happy to arrest and confine travelers who were simply unfortunate to change planes in LaGuardia or Newark etc. with an otherwise legally checked handgun that had already gone through the TSA once. If FOPA's traveler protections can't be used as a "get outta jail card" within 24 hours... it's worthless IMO. Even with a "win" on Nat. Recip., I'm sure it'll take DECADES of court fights to force all the no-issue states and areas into issuing. Call it what it is, not "real" Nat. Recip., just a bill that will eventually give us standing in court. And with the wins in D.C. and Chicago lately, And Trump packing the Fed. Judiciary, and all the aging die-offs being skewed to the left on the SCOTUS, I think that's a fight we'll eventually win even without a Federal Nat. Recip. bill.
What we SHOULD be "trading" bumpfire stocks away for, is for them to become NFA regulated machine guns. So they have the extra paperwork, the extra background check, the huge waiting period, and the $200 tax. That's some pretty stringent "gun control" ain't it? If you say so the right way, it makes it hard for Democrats to oppose such strict regulation... Of course, to facilitate this, we'd have to do away with the Hughes Amendment and the '86 machine gun freeze. :angel:
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http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/10/vegas-killer-stephen-paddock-bought-33-guns-one-year-600-rifle-purchased-way-vegas-missing/
Mass killer Stephen Paddock bought a high-powered hunting rifle just hours before he arrived in Las Vegas on his mission of death, DailyMail.com can reveal.
But bizarrely the rifle wasn’t one of the 23 weapon haul found by police in his sniper’s nest hotel suite.
Paddock paid $600 for a Ruger American .308 bolt-action rifle with an 18-inch barrel and four round capacity from Guns & Guitars in his hometown of Mesquite.
He then calmly drove 80 miles to check in at the Mandalay Bay hotel on the Vegas Strip from where he rained bullets down on the Route 91 Harvest music festival killing 59 people and injuring a further 537.
A gunsmith at the store revealed Paddock was ‘calm and normal’ when he bought the weapon at around 3pm on September 28.
He bought it in his home town so maybe he took it home ... kind of odd to buy it when he had to know he probably wouldn't get to shoot it ...
=|
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https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2017/10/05/members-accuse-nra-of-caving-after-organization-agrees-to-additional-regulations-on-bump-stocks/
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AJ, they're not going to be able to play any of those games if they lose their base, which is pretty pissed at them right now.
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The speculation is that the .308 was to set off Tannerite at some secondary target. I think his plan was to escape the Mandalay Bay as "just another evacuating hotel guest" get into his car, and drive away for some more attacks. With his international travel, and money, he may even have had an escape plan. Even if it was really just a psychological prop to get himself to commit the attack in the first place.
If he was a pilot, and had always been somewhat of a gunnie, I wonder if he knew he couldn't set off the Aviation fuel tanks he shot at inside the airport fence past the concert, because it's essentially kerosene. But perhaps he thought if the tanks were leaking from bullet holes, and he set off a pile of Tannerite next to it, it would detonate the whole tank, or split it and cause a large fire.
Or he just planed another location to go out in a blaze of glory with as many victims as he could. However the Security guard who got shot squashed that, forced the standoff, and he had to go through with his backup suicide option.
AJ, they're not going to be able to play any of those games if they lose their base, which is pretty pissed at them right now.
I agree. The timing is idiocy. =|
The NRA should have talked with Ryan and whoever in Congress behind the scenes, and then come out in favor of banning bump stocks, once it was clear what gun owners would be getting in exchange and the bill was being voted on.
I think the NRA made a calculation of political capital, and decided with majorities in the House and Senate, and Trump in the White House, they could afford to piss off their base a bit. However, they're miscalculating how pissed that base is going to be, and they're also falling for the trap that the anti-RKBA/MSM side is setting for them. Because they always accuse the NRA of "being silent" whenever there's a mass shooting. So they're trying to get out ahead in the news cycle by advocating throwing bumpstocks under the bus, but that's stupid, because however "smart" that decision seems tactically, it's really just letting your enemies define the game and it's playing field in the first place.
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Is it all that sudden? .45 ACP, .45 GAP We all know what the A stands for. I think the MSM just found out and is trying to leverage it.
Yes, it was that sudden. The two rounds you mention aren't what CBS was talking about.
Follow-up question: Did "ACP" originally describe the weapon, or the cartridge? My 1911 shoots .45 Auto. :P
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https://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2017/10/05/doh-sheryl-crow-out-stupids-nancy-sinatra-with-vile-nra-tweet-trips-over-bernie-sanders/
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The big news here in Chicago is that Whacky McNutjob* booked a room in the Blackstone Hotel, overlooking Grant Park during Lalapolooza. For those not familiar it is a large music festival with younger, probably more left leaning, crowd then a country music festival. However, he never checked in.
My guess and just spitballing here. Whacky McNutjob* just wanted to get the high score. And like every other loser that does crap like this, as soon as he met some resistance, he offed himself.
*= As I've had to remind some people (not here), that Crazy=/=Stupid. He obviously had a (half-assed) plan.
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I think we should require that Bump Stocks be part of the NFA. To do that we have to repeal the Hughes part of the FOPA so they can be added to the registry. Let’s not publicize what else can be added then. =)
I’ll loose a hundred grand or so in NFA investments; but I’ll trade that for new NFA toys.
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Does anyone know if there's some evidence he may have targeted Lollapalooza, other than the room location and timing? Or is that enough? Is Lollapalooza Chicago that big, that no one would get one of those rooms by coincidence?
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Not a very smart move. I have a feeling that the majority of their membership may think bump stocks are as stupid as all get out, but still would fight to keep them legal.
This is pretty much where I am. Bumpstocks are a silly novelty useful for wasting ammo. I don't want them banned, but I'm pretty much reconciled to them being banned, which is I guess where I differ.
What concerns me more, really, is that once again a tragedy and it's resultant emotions are being used to drive lawmaking, not cool, collected, logical thought.
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On return fire, the ROE is now different. No longer a barricaded down on his luck domestic violence loon that the police sniper can plink off rather than starve out. On sep 10 2001 nobody thought ramming a passenger jet with an F-16 was an acceptable tactic, but the next day some chick was headed off to do it.
It's an area target, not a point target. I am sure that many officers are not familiar with their carbine at that range. 500 yards, or closer since the cops don't necessarily appear right in the target zone. Target is elevated so holdover is reduced. A typical 1x optic zeroed at 25/300ish is going to be pretty ballpark. Hose it. If fortune is on your side a patrol cop is a leftover army or USMC troop.
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Paddock paid $600 for a Ruger American .308 bolt-action rifle with an 18-inch barrel and four round capacity
:O I paid half that for mine!
Also, I'm in the camp that think shooting back in that situation is dumb/crazy.
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Does anyone know if there's some evidence he may have targeted Lollapalooza, other than the room location and timing? Or is that enough? Is Lollapalooza Chicago that big, that no one would get one of those rooms by coincidence?
Big music festival and he apparently requested a room with a view of Grant Park, where it would be happening. 64 year olds generally aren't the target audience. Here are some of the acts: https://www.lollapalooza.com/lineup/
Out of 110, I recognize three. And I've only knowingly heard the music of two, Lorde, and Blink-182 . (Chance the Rapper is big for donating his winnings of some show contest to the Chicago Public Schools. I've never heard one of his "songs", as I don't listen to (c)Rap. So I'd guess that a 64 year old retired accountant is probably not a big (c)Rap aficionado.
That to me shows that he was planning to go for the high score. It just may have turn out that having a big music fest at a more local place changed his plans. I can only imagine the anti-gunners stuttering if he had done his evil deed in Chicago.
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But does the contract under which Satan holds his soul actually have terms preventing cops from learning to do the same, or is it possible your friend just can't recite the plot of every episode of Game of Thrones and every HS/college/pro football game played during the times he "ain't got time to practice?"
And, unless there was reason to believe the guy had duct taped pregnant nuns to every inch of the room except where he was shooting out of, then the safe target area isn't human torso sized, it's roughly 8' high and (guessing by the room map) 50+ feet wide. Yes, you need better than that to kill him, but just keeping him distracted would save lives. Even Whitman resorted to shooting through the scuppers once there was meaningful return fire. No telling how many people didn't get shot because they weren't on the limited field of fire that offered him. The Vegas shooter wouldn't have had any real cover to get behind.
I'm going to assume that you may be serious, that you just might -- possibly -- not be trolling, so I'll dignify this with a response.
He's out in some farmer's field, shooting at ground hogs. There are no occupied hotel rooms above, below, or to either side of his line of fire. The distance is known, it's daylight, his scope is zeroed for 500 yards, and he's not taking incoming fire so his adrenaline isn't sky high. And, of course, he's shooting a rifle that was built and set up specifically for long-range, precision shooting -- not an AR-15 patrol carbine with a 1x holographic sight. There is a difference.
The Texas Tower sniper is not an appropriate comparison. Yes, civilians with rifles eventually pinned him down. But he was up on the tower by himself, he wasn't surrounded by occupied hotel rooms. "Just keeping him distracted" is suppressive fire. Suppressive fire is area fire, not point fire. The notion of inviting deaths of guests in the hotel as "collateral damage" in the hope that the suppressive fire might temporarily neutralize the shooter is about the craziest thing I've ever encountered on the Internet. Thank God the Las Vegas police don't spend too much time playing Call of Duty.
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Follow-up question: Did "ACP" originally describe the weapon, or the cartridge? My 1911 shoots .45 Auto. :P
Both.
When the 1911 was new, "auto-loading" pistols were referred to as "automatic" pistols. It meant "auto-loading," but back then a machine gun was a "machine gun," and the term "full-auto" to describe a machine gun hadn't been invented.
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sportingcollectibles.com%2Fcphotos%2Fc42799ins25auto.jpg&hash=ad37e0f82eff82d9cedac3241c3459e9b0a757df)
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sportingcollectibles.com%2Fcphotos%2Fc50117Bins32-380pocketR2D.jpg&hash=c729ced5b6c7abf82131769b502c697a67e3ae97)
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sportingcollectibles.com%2Fcphotos%2Fc32537insgvt45.jpg&hash=482ab5766ee12c84a954495f2b84d37df6fee4d9)
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sportingcollectibles.com%2Fcphotos%2Fc51126inssuper38supermatch.jpg&hash=537ffc739bd6ed4c19c565d3df5683ec7cda7c21)
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Big music festival and he apparently requested a room with a view of Grant Park, where it would be happening. 64 year olds generally aren't the target audience. Here are some of the acts: https://www.lollapalooza.com/lineup/
Out of 110, I recognize three. And I've only knowingly heard the music of two, Lorde, and Blink-182 . (Chance the Rapper is big for donating his winnings of some show contest to the Chicago Public Schools. I've never heard one of his "songs", as I don't listen to (c)Rap. So I'd guess that a 64 year old retired accountant is probably not a big (c)Rap aficionado.
That to me shows that he was planning to go for the high score. It just may have turn out that having a big music fest at a more local place changed his plans. I can only imagine the anti-gunners stuttering if he had done his evil deed in Chicago.
I'm confused. Are you talking about the Vegas mass murderer or is this another guy?
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Same nutjob, different venue.
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The Texas Tower sniper is not an appropriate comparison. Yes, civilians with rifles eventually pinned him down. But he was up on the tower by himself, he wasn't surrounded by occupied hotel rooms. "Just keeping him distracted" is suppressive fire. Suppressive fire is area fire, not point fire. The notion of inviting deaths of guests in the hotel as "collateral damage" in the hope that the suppressive fire might temporarily neutralize the shooter is about the craziest thing I've ever encountered on the Internet. Thank God the Las Vegas police don't spend too much time playing Call of Duty.
He wasn't surrounded by hotel rooms, he was surrounded by a campus and city. They shot rounds into the air having no idea where they were going to land. Thank God those idiots didn't hit anyone...
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I'm confused. Are you talking about the Vegas mass murderer or is this another guy?
Same nutjob. Booked a room for first weekend in August, as same time as a different large music festival. Had reserved a room with a view of Grant Park, where the festival would be occurring. However, he never checked in. My guess is that he wanted to go out as the biggest mass murderer in US History. But perhaps he had a half-assed plan to make an escape and flee the country, although the Philippines does, IIRC, have an extradition treaty with the US. And since he booked the room in his name, it would have taken all of about 10 seconds to track him to PI, and request extradition.
Or not. Interesting is that this guy is a cypher, a zero, a nobody. Nobody can come up with anything other: Accountant, Gambler, and Amateur Pilot, never interacted with anyone very much. GF is a Filipino national. He bought a bunch of guns legally, jumping through all the 4473 and NICS hoops without even a blip. No prior interaction with LE, other then Father being on the FBI 10 Most Wanted at one point, when he was very young. No on-line or social presence. /pol/ thinks they have one video of him at a Resistance/Antifa wearing a Birth Canal hat. No note, no manifesto, no nothing. No discernible motive. Yet, he clearly did some planning and wanted to make a statement.
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I heard he tried to book a room at some hotel that would of overlooked some concert venue but the rooms were all booked, was that the Lollapalooza?
Is his girlfriend, or she his wife?, a Filipino national? I have also read she is Australian. There is so much misinformation and stuff out on this this is crazy.
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I owned that 2nd Colt in the pics above in .380. I carried that as a backup pistol to my S&W 38 Police Special revolver in the 60's. Iirc, I traded it for something I don't remember back in the 60's. Maybe I traded a Browning mouse gun in .25 for it with a Vice detective.
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I heard he tried to book a room at some hotel that would of overlooked some concert venue but the rooms were all booked, was that the Lollapalooza?
Is his girlfriend, or she his wife?, a Filipino national? I have also read she is Australian. There is so much misinformation and stuff out on this this is crazy.
The two of them ae both pushing the WTF-O-Meter.
She has multiple names in use in LV and California, multiple marriages, a couple concurrent.
Shooter has zero digital foot print, has apparently lived a "double life" that none of his family know anything about and is a multimillionaire with no real direct, upfront source of income.
Holywierd couldn't write this script, they don't have enough imagination.
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I heard he tried to book a room at some hotel that would of overlooked some concert venue but the rooms were all booked, was that the Lollapalooza?
Is his girlfriend, or she his wife?, a Filipino national? I have also read she is Australian. There is so much misinformation and stuff out on this this is crazy.
Scroll back a bit. Booked a room in the Blackstone hotel for 2-4 Aug 2017, requested a room overlooking Grant Park in Chicago. Where the Lalapalooza Music Festival would be taking place during that time. Another music festival with tens of thousands of attendees. I'm guessing that the range would have been a bit further then ~500 meters he had a Mandalay Bay for the Route 91 Harvest Festival. If you look at Google Maps you can see that the Blackstone isn't nearly as tall (21 stories) and I can't remember if Lalapalooza is at the Pritzker Pavilion or the Petrillo Band Shell, but both are enclosed with trees and at least 800 yards as the crow flies to the closest one.
Again, my guess is he wanted High Score.
Plus there's entire driving 1/2 across the country to get there, vs roughly an hour from his home.
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Both.
When the 1911 was new, "auto-loading" pistols were referred to as "automatic" pistols. It meant "auto-loading," but back then a machine gun was a "machine gun," and the term "full-auto" to describe a machine gun hadn't been invented.
The point is that "automatic" refers to the gun's operation. When the rounds are called "automatic" or "ACP," it only's because they're named after the gun. It's not because there's something about them that causes the gun to be fully automatic like a machine gun, as the CBS report implies.
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Big music festival and he apparently requested a room with a view of Grant Park, where it would be happening. 64 year olds generally aren't the target audience. Here are some of the acts: https://www.lollapalooza.com/lineup/
Unlike you ancient dudes who can't spell Lollapalooza, I actually do know what it is. :P I didn't realize it was only a Chicago thing now.* They used to tour here, and other cities in the U.S. Since he's not of my generation (and the soulless creep probably didn't enjoy that rather delightful music called "rap") it's also likely he'd never heard of Lollapalooza. It's still possible he just wanted a room with a pleasant view of the park. On the other hand, if Chicago was not his usual hang-out, and no other reason emerges for him being there, then I'd agree it looks like he was targeting Lollapalooza.
*Except for its overseas venues.
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He wasn't surrounded by hotel rooms, he was surrounded by a campus and city. They shot rounds into the air having no idea where they were going to land. Thank God those idiots didn't hit anyone...
In the Austin incident, they suppressed fire from a man who was actively shooting people and took the risk that a miss "might" come down somewhere and harm someone. They prevented further deaths by the accounts I have read as the man wasn't able to take easy aimed shots off the roof after that. It bought time for others to enter the tower and take him out.
If the police there 1) had the rifles capable of putting rounds on target and 2) he was still actively shooting and 3) they knew where he was shooting from, I would hope they would try especially if that was the only way to stop him. From what we have been told, as soon as he was challenged by police, he shot himself. This seems to happen with a lot of these mass shooters. And I would point out that if police did take shots at him, the wouldn't be doing it from 500 yards away. It would still not be an easy shot from the ground, but the police wouldn't need to fire from the concert area. I agree that shooting 9mm or 45 ACP from the concert area would not be good, but I am sure there were closer locations a rifleman could shoot from and be effective.
I have not heard if anyone on the ground knew which window the gunfire was coming from before police entered the hotel so I am not sure if any of this is relevant. Maybe one of you has heard something different.
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https://www.nraila.org/articles/20171005/nras-wayne-lapierre-and-chris-cox-issue-joint-statement
This link is to the statement the NRA issued. I don't think they intended it to sound like they were giving in on outlawing bump stocks, but the sentence about inviting new regulations seems to do that.
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Unlike you ancient dudes who can't spell Lollapalooza, I actually do know what it is. :P I didn't realize it was only a Chicago thing now.* They used to tour here, and other cities in the U.S. Since he's not of my generation (and the soulless creep probably didn't enjoy that rather delightful music called "rap") it's also likely he'd never heard of Lollapalooza. It's still possible he just wanted a room with a pleasant view of the park. On the other hand, if Chicago was not his usual hang-out, and no other reason emerges for him being there, then I'd agree it looks like he was targeting Lollapalooza.
*Except for its overseas venues.
One of the Obama girls was in attendance at Lollapalooza, with commensurate SS protection. I'm not sure how far out they push their perimeter for something like that, when POTUS or some of the First Family is not speaking, just "attending", but the SS manning rooftops, and examining any high buildings , windows or vantage points is a pretty common procedure for them. Of course, it could easily be simple blind luck on Paddock's part that he didn't show for it.
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https://www.nraila.org/articles/20171005/nras-wayne-lapierre-and-chris-cox-issue-joint-statement
This link is to the statement the NRA issued. I don't think they intended it to sound like they were giving in on outlawing bump stocks, but the sentence about inviting new regulations seems to do that.
I read it as an attempt to avoid legislation. If the BATFE regulates/bans bump stocks, there is less opportunity for Congress to do so (and possibly tack on other restrictions in the process).
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I read it as an attempt to avoid legislation. If the BATFE regulates/bans bump stocks, there is less opportunity on Congress to do so (and possibly tack on other restrictions in the process).
Looking at how they worked National Reciprocity into Dana Loesch's statement at the end makes me think they're trying to set up the GOP for a quid-pro-quo to get that passed in trade.
Granted, it would be even nicer to just say "Eff you... We're keeping bumpstocks. AND we're passing the HPA, Nat. Recip., and doing away with the Hughes Amendment. Deal with it." However if wishes were fishes, we'd all cast nets.
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I was looking at a youtube thing on the shooting. It was CNN, but it said the guy fired 200 or so rounds through the door and down the hallway when cops initially approached where he was. It was apparently at that point he stopped firing on the crowds. They were trying to talk about whether he planned to escape or not. The person interviewed said he did.
I finally saw the picture of the guns in the room. That one rifle on the floor with the slide-fire stock had a 100 round Surefire mag. It is too long to be the 60 round. The 60 rounder isn't much longer in overall length than a 30 round mag. The 100 round mag is a good bit longer.
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The point is that "automatic" refers to the gun's operation. When the rounds are called "automatic" or "ACP," it only's because they're named after the gun. It's not because there's something about them that causes the gun to be fully automatic like a machine gun, as the CBS report implies.
Correct. The notion of an "automatic round" is ludicrous. A truly automatic round would be exceptionally dangerous. How could you get it out of the box without it going off? How would the factory get it into the box without it going off? An "automatic round" either wouldn't need a gun, or would shoot itself as soon as it's put in a gun.
I suppose all those ACP cartridges should be renamed, but somehow .45SACP just doesn't ring my chimes.
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I finally saw the picture of the guns in the room. That one rifle on the floor with the slide-fire stock had a 100 round Surefire mag. It is too long to be the 60 round. The 60 rounder isn't much longer in overall length than a 30 round mag. The 100 round mag is a good bit longer.
I agree, they all look like 100 round Surefires to me.
Perhaps this comes too close to the APS prohibition on "grave dancing", but I'm really hoping that he went on the majority of his gun buying spree after Nov. 2nd 2016 and/or whatever motives he had that eventually come out of the investigation to be Lefty or Trump Derangement Syndrome.
The fact he was scoping out Lollapalooza in Chicago last summer belies that theory... OTOH, People were already getting angry on the left over how Bernie was being treated by the DNC in the primary process. Or maybe he did find out Malia Obama would be there and didn't target that because of his ideological reasons...
I'm of the mind that his motivations are going to be either "just plain evil/crazy" and the investigating LEA's honestly don't know, or his motivations were "Lefty" in nature. Because I think the one thing we can all be certain of, is if his motivations were at all Right-wing, we'd have heard about it already, and on the top of every hour since. Especially considering someone was willing to risk their career to leak the crime scene and suicide photos, just passing along "He hated Democrats" etc. is so much easier. And that makes me think if the motive is known, or strongly suspected, it's been leaked too, but the nominal Left bias of the MSM means they're sitting on it.
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I read it as an attempt to avoid legislation. If the BATFE regulates/bans bump stocks, there is less opportunity for Congress to do so (and possibly tack on other restrictions in the process).
That's what I've been thinking. It would be easier to reverse, and a way for Trump and the NRA to get something they can point to, to show they're not actually uncaring, or unwilling to compromise. They may be thinking it will take some of the urgency and relevance away from Feinstein and friends. Whether those last two are even worth the effort is for us to argue endlessly about.)
FTR, I'm all for deregulating automatics.
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Agreed with AJ, if a maga hat was in the room we would all be in camps by now. Well, some of us.
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Correct. The notion of an "automatic round" is ludicrous. A truly automatic round would be exceptionally dangerous. How could you get it out of the box without it going off? How would the factory get it into the box without it going off? An "automatic round" either wouldn't need a gun, or would shoot itself as soon as it's put in a gun.
I suppose all those ACP cartridges should be renamed, but somehow .45SACP just doesn't ring my chimes.
Someone said that ACP was really meant as a name for the guns. The ammo is properly known as [caliber] Automatic. I'm not sure if that's true, but those ads seem to agree. I call the .45 round ".45 Auto," because it's just easier to say.
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To go back to how to counter a threat like this:
Given that small arms are not likely to be of much use when used normally and I doubt any one wants to give cops M2s or M19s or suchlike so might I suggest mounting a pistol on a drone?
I'm sure we've all seen the video of the kid that did that so the concept works.
The drone has the range and the pistol has the lethality. Enough cops with drones would settle any of these sorts of problems unless the shooter was really well-fortified. Still it would be a distraction at the very least.
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I agree, they all look like 100 round Surefires to me.
Perhaps this comes too close to the APS prohibition on "grave dancing", but I'm really hoping that he went on the majority of his gun buying spree after Nov. 2nd 2016 and/or whatever motives he had that eventually come out of the investigation to be Lefty or Trump Derangement Syndrome.
The fact he was scoping out Lollapalooza in Chicago last summer belies that theory... OTOH, People were already getting angry on the left over how Bernie was being treated by the DNC in the primary process. Or maybe he did find out Malia Obama would be there and didn't target that because of his ideological reasons...
I'm of the mind that his motivations are going to be either "just plain evil/crazy" and the investigating LEA's honestly don't know, or his motivations were "Lefty" in nature. Because I think the one thing we can all be certain of, is if his motivations were at all Right-wing, we'd have heard about it already, and on the top of every hour since. Especially considering someone was willing to risk their career to leak the crime scene and suicide photos, just passing along "He hated Democrats" etc. is so much easier. And that makes me think if the motive is known, or strongly suspected, it's been leaked too, but the nominal Left bias of the MSM means they're sitting on it.
He wasn't scoping out Lollapalooza last summer, but a month ago. This summer, August 2017.
And he had recently started taking Diazepam/Valium. I'm betting that that had more to do with him basically becoming a Reaver, (along with what would appear to be a genetic predisposition toward crime/violence) then anything else.
And I'll point out that this loser followed the MO of pretty much every other nutjob like this. As soon as they meet serious resistance, they off themselves. That seems to be the key. Not shooting at the 32nd floor from ground level with handgun or even patrol rifles, but busting in the door and engaging Whacky McNutjob.
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Juzst got word that Omnibus Gun Control legislation was introduced in the Illinois House yesterday. Both NRA and ISRA are going through it to see how "bad" it is. Given that this is Illinois and Chicago pretty much runs the state (and our RINO/RUNT Governor is worthless at stopping anything Madigan and what the rest of the Chicago Machine/D's want), I predict we're pretty much screwed. The only good news is that because it will be int he veto session it will take super majorities to pass it. Until next spring....
http://ilga.gov/legislation/fulltext.asp?DocName=&SessionId=91&GA=100&DocTypeId=HB&DocNum=4107&GAID=14&LegID=107988&SpecSess=&Session=
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He wasn't scoping out Lollapalooza last summer, but a month ago. This summer, August 2017.
And he had recently started taking Diazepam/Valium. I'm betting that that had more to do with him basically becoming a Reaver, (along with what would appear to be a genetic predisposition toward crime/violence) then anything else.
And I'll point out that this loser followed the MO of pretty much every other nutjob like this. As soon as they meet serious resistance, they off themselves. That seems to be the key. Not shooting at the 32nd floor from ground level with handgun or even patrol rifles, but busting in the door and engaging Whacky McNutjob.
Ohhh... well, that at least that keeps "Trump Derangement Syndrome" and him ultimately being a black eye to the Left alive then.
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Listen to the video and try not to throw anything at your monitor. "Leadership of the NRA didn't know what a bump stock was..." among other WTFs.
https://twitchy.com/dougp-3137/2017/10/06/fake-news-a-palooza-reporter-tries-to-journo-splain-guns-on-cnn-gets-nothing-right/
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Less people there than are dying with you, first shot from a 5.56 likely breaks up on hitting an unbroken window and firing at an upward angle you will soon hit ceilings of concrete, making only a small triangle of surrounding rooms a lethal area.
Those concrete ceilings are possibly post-tensioned and I've seen specs from engineer that have cables sitting directly on 3/4" slab bolsters which puts the center of the strand right at an inch. Elevated slabs go on my do not shoot list.
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Those concrete ceilings are possibly post-tensioned and I've seen specs from engineer that have cables sitting directly on 3/4" slab bolsters which puts the center of the strand right at an inch. Elevated slabs go on my do not shoot list.
Even better; ceiling comes down on him and you blame the engineers for anything excessive.
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Those concrete ceilings are possibly post-tensioned and I've seen specs from engineer that have cables sitting directly on 3/4" slab bolsters which puts the center of the strand right at an inch. Elevated slabs go on my do not shoot list.
It's highly unlikely that the slabs are post-tensioned. Post-tensioned tendons don't rest on bolsters, they run in hollow tubes that are cast into the concrete. Then, after the concrete has cured to its design strength, hydraulic jacks are used to pull the strands to the designed tension, at which time wedges on hammered into the ends of the tubes to lock the strands under tension.
You may be thinking about pre-stressed concrete, but that's usually more appropriate for low-rise structures. I would expect a high-rise of the size and scale of the Mandalay Bay to have cast-in-place concrete slabs. Those don't have cables for reinforcing, they use conventional rebar.
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You may be thinking about pre-stressed concrete, but that's usually more appropriate for low-rise structures. I would expect a high-rise of the size and scale of the Mandalay Bay to have cast-in-place concrete slabs. Those don't have cables for reinfircing, they use conventional rebar.
What? You can't bring down a significant portion of a high rise hotel with small arms fire?
There goes my movie plot.
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http://www.dailywire.com/news/22019/watch-cnn-tries-explain-bump-stocks-animation-ryan-saavedra
There are not enough face-palms...
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I agree, they all look like 100 round Surefires to me.
Perhaps this comes too close to the APS prohibition on "grave dancing", but I'm really hoping that he went on the majority of his gun buying spree after Nov. 2nd 2016 and/or whatever motives he had that eventually come out of the investigation to be Lefty or Trump Derangement Syndrome.
...
I'm of the mind that his motivations are going to be either "just plain evil/crazy" and the investigating LEA's honestly don't know, or his motivations were "Lefty" in nature. Because I think the one thing we can all be certain of, is if his motivations were at all Right-wing, we'd have heard about it already, and on the top of every hour since. Especially considering someone was willing to risk their career to leak the crime scene and suicide photos, just passing along "He hated Democrats" etc. is so much easier. And that makes me think if the motive is known, or strongly suspected, it's been leaked too, but the nominal Left bias of the MSM means they're sitting on it.
I gave up on suspicions of lefty or false flag activity on the theory that proof of that would never ever ever see the light of day.
And neither would the holder of that proof. >:D
Terry
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Listen to the video and try not to throw anything at your monitor. "Leadership of the NRA didn't know what a bump stock was..." among other WTFs.
https://twitchy.com/dougp-3137/2017/10/06/fake-news-a-palooza-reporter-tries-to-journo-splain-guns-on-cnn-gets-nothing-right/
(https://images.duckduckgo.com/iur/?f=1&image_host=https%3A%2F%2Fs-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com%2F736x%2F23%2Ffa%2F9f%2F23fa9f5bec59537f49018d85f96446d9.jpg&u=https://i.pinimg.com/736x/23/fa/9f/23fa9f5bec59537f49018d85f96446d9.jpg)
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Given the evidence and after John Ringo's account (along with years of dealing with my own mother while she was on it), I'm going to have to go with the Diazepam turned a highly organized, perhaps high functioning semi-autistic type, into a murderer.
I know how mean and vicious my mother was during the ten years she was on it. I could easily see it turning someone who had just recently started taking it into a mass murderer. Nothing else explains it. (Despite what the conspiracy theory nuts think.) He doesn't seem to have a motive, other than "Kill lots of people". Not ISIS, not Anti-Trump, not "Hates Country Music", or even "Hates music". There was simply nothing (or at least what anyone could find) or ANYTHING that would give a hint as to the "Why?".
Yet, he shares with many other mass murderers, the same use of psychotropic drugs, in this case he had started to use them not long, like a month or two prior.
Unless they can come up with something, anything, that might point to a motive, that's the only explanation that fits.
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What? You can't bring down a significant portion of a high rise hotel with small arms fire?
There goes my movie plot.
You can do anything you want in a movie.
Consider The Towering Inferno. Fairly early in the film, the architect (Paul Newman) knows exactly what electrical panel to go to in order to switch off a circuit. As an architect of several decades of experience, I can tell you that just isn't possible. Maybe the electrical engineer could do that -- maybe -- but definitely not the architect.
Second, how did they put out the fire? They blew the water tanks on the top of the building. "A million gallons of water." NFW! Water weighs 8.35 pounds per gallon -- NOBODY puts 8.35 MILLION pounds of water on top of a skyscraper. The water tanks on top of high rise buildings are sized to hold enough water for short-term, immediate demands. They hold at most a few hundred or a few thousand gallons -- not a million gallons.
But .. Hollywood. Plot device.
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He wasn't scoping out Lollapalooza last summer, but a month ago. This summer, August 2017.
And he had recently started taking Diazepam/Valium. I'm betting that that had more to do with him basically becoming a Reaver, (along with what would appear to be a genetic predisposition toward crime/violence) then anything else.
And I'll point out that this loser followed the MO of pretty much every other nutjob like this. As soon as they meet serious resistance, they off themselves. That seems to be the key. Not shooting at the 32nd floor from ground level with handgun or even patrol rifles, but busting in the door and engaging Whacky McNutjob.
That's why it's so hard to defend against people like this. One week they're normal and the next week or month, they're a raving nutcase bent on causing as much human death and suffering as possible. I simply can't understand this at all....
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That's why it's so hard to defend against people like this. One week they're normal and the next week or month, they're a raving nutcase bent on causing as much human death and suffering as possible. I simply can't understand this at all....
But you DO understand it. You just summarized it very succinctly. You just don't want to accept it. That's the problem with most politicians -- they think they have to DO something -- even though every rational mind knows there is nothing that can be done that will have any real effect.
I had a teacher once who cited some Zen master somewhere in saying, "It is your resistance to what is that causes your unhappiness." What is ... is that people like this may be normal one week and go off the deep end the next week, and that it's not just "hard" to defend against this, it's impossible. Accept it and move on. Even a total gun ban and confiscation wouldn't make any difference. If a person like this wants a body count and can't get a gun, they'll use a bomb. It's just that simple.
I already posted a link to an article about the Bath Township, Michigan, school massacre in 1927. The casualty count was about double (or triple) that of Sandy Hook. No guns used -- the weapon was dynamite.
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Well, I suppose the "gun show loophole" will be back on the table again.
Paddock bought 1,000 rounds of the .308-caliber and .223-caliber tracer ammunition from a private buyer he met at a Phoenix gun show, a law enforcement official not authorized to comment on the investigation said on condition of anonymity.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/10/07/investigators-reportedly-believe-las-vegas-gunman-had-undiagnosed-mental-illness.html
Sidebar: Why do they keep showing the photo of this guy from when he was like 40?
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The tracer rounds that he never used? Are those not available from online retailers?
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Sidebar: Why do they keep showing the photo of this guy from when he was like 40?
Given his lack of social media connections, it's likely the latest photo they could find of him alive.
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Looks like Mandalay Bay's CEO sold off most of his stock recently ... is it still the fault of momma's little helper if ISIS was involved ?
:old:
http://yournewswire.com/mandalay-bay-ceo-terror/
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This crap is getting to be more twisted and tinfoil wrapped than a Hydra conspiracy.
Is there any other source for that?
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This crap is getting to be more twisted and tinfoil wrapped than a Hydra conspiracy.
I think the media misinformation and a current lack of motive are going to fuel a whole lot of conspiracy theories. I'm already starting to hear that the shooter was a plant like some Manchurian Candidate-type guy, programmed to be destructive to further some agenda. [tinfoil]
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Well, I suppose the "gun show loophole" will be back on the table again.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/10/07/investigators-reportedly-believe-las-vegas-gunman-had-undiagnosed-mental-illness.html
Sidebar: Why do they keep showing the photo of this guy from when he was like 40?
And I can't imagine them not going after bulk ammo purchasing again.
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http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/10/08/las-vegas-gunman-seemed-like-rational-man-steve-wynn-tells-fox-news-sunday.html
Steve Wynn also thinks Mr. Paddock was a plain vanilla gambler and hotel guest.
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They keep talking about the murderer leading a "double life" or "secret life." Seems a little overwrought to me. He doesn't seem to have been doing anything illegal, or even sneaky, until his killing spree. He didn't talk about his apparent gun hobby, or obsession, or whatever it was, but does that mean he's "leading a double life"?
I guess we'll have to see what details emerge. If they ever do.
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Lollapalooza is primarily geared towards the feminist among us. I've worked security at a couple of them and the nutcases I saw at them was very scary.
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Guess who is not staying with Steve Wynn? His comments on security are really expected and sad.
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He really started beefing up business and personal security after his daughter was kidnapped out of her home in the early 90's so that they started this is not that big a surprise to me. I could never afford to stay at one of his properties. :(
bob
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He didn't talk about his apparent gun hobby, or obsession, or whatever it was, but does that mean he's "leading a double life"?
I guess we'll have to see what details emerge. If they ever do.
Some of that goes back to what i said earlier about a lot of older people not having a big social media presence. They're talking about "decades" of avoiding social media, but social media wasn't around decades ago.
My avoiding social media now aside, back in the 80's, I also had no presence in any media anywhere, because there really was none. I dunno, maybe somebody archived my posts on the couple of BBSs I was on at the time. I guess they could setup an Atari emulator and dig up whatever I wrote.
While it may seem "weird" and "ominous" to a 30 year old reporter that he had no online or other digital presence, to me, it's not at all out of the ordinary.
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Some of that goes back to what i said earlier about a lot of older people not having a big social media presence.
A lot of people don't. I've been trying to track down some friends from college, since their parents seem to have retired and moved. Whole family, zip, nada, nothing. Not even with the g00gle.
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I've had conversations like that with younger attorneys. They can't seem to understand why I don't do SnapChat, Instagram, etc. I have Facebook, but only because it (1) lets me communicate easily with Scout people and (2) lets me stay in touch with some high school and college friends. No blogs. No vlogs. Just FB and APS. That makes me seem weird to young lawyers (late 20s). I think of it as OpSec.
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One question I have not seen answered was why so damn many guns in the room. It makes no sense. Ammo yes. Loaded mags yes. But that many guns not so much.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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One question I have not seen answered was why so damn many guns in the room. It makes no sense. Ammo yes. Loaded mags yes. But that many guns not so much.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
yea....I can see two guns----use one until it gets hot, switch to #2 and let #1 cool, so forth. But this guy was.....well, nuts.
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yea....I can see two guns----use one until it gets hot, switch to #2 and let #1 cool, so forth. But this guy was.....well, nuts.
I can only speculate that he had tried to use a bump fire stock prior to this and found they were prone to overheating guns and leading to jamming. Instead of clearing a FTF or FTE just throw it down and pick up the next one. My 2 cents worth which on the interwebs is worth even less. ;)
bob
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One question I have not seen answered was why so damn many guns in the room. It makes no sense. Ammo yes. Loaded mags yes. But that many guns not so much.
Don't think like a regular soldier, or even like a regular gunnie. It seems to be a thing with spree killers that they bring lots of "extra" weapons even when it prevents them from bringing more ammunition.
I'm not trying to explain the logic behind that, just that it seems to be something spree killers do.
p12 basically has it - he was nuts. He probably left firearms, ammunition, and such in his vehicle because he was tired of hauling stuff up.
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One question I have not seen answered was why so damn many guns in the room. It makes no sense. Ammo yes. Loaded mags yes. But that many guns not so much.
One 100-round mag dump will overheat a barrel pretty badly. In fact, the autopsy found that he had burns on his fingers, presumably from handling the hot barrels. A guy as detail oriented as he apparently was may well have know that, so his plan was possibly to just dump a magazine and then switch rifles rather than reloading.
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Don't think like a regular soldier, or even like a regular gunnie. It seems to be a thing with spree killers that they bring lots of "extra" weapons even when it prevents them from bringing more ammunition.
I'm not trying to explain the logic behind that, just that it seems to be something spree killers do.
p12 basically has it - he was nuts. He probably left firearms, ammunition, and such in his vehicle because he was tired of hauling stuff up.
Yeah. I think largely thanks to the media. Guns are the big scary thing, so bring more of those. You just need lots of guns to do a lot of damage.
One 100-round mag dump will overheat a barrel pretty badly. In fact, the autopsy found that he had burns on his fingers, presumably from handling the hot barrels. A guy as detail oriented as he apparently was may well have know that, so his plan was possibly to just dump a magazine and then switch rifles rather than reloading.
Has an autopsy report been released? And didn't the leaked picture show him wearing a glove, on the one hand you can see?
Lollapalooza is primarily geared towards the feminist among us. I've worked security at a couple of them and the nutcases I saw at them was very scary.
I thought Lollapalooza was just a rock festival?
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I've had conversations like that with younger attorneys. They can't seem to understand why I don't do SnapChat, Instagram, etc. I have Facebook, but only because it (1) lets me communicate easily with Scout people and (2) lets me stay in touch with some high school and college friends. No blogs. No vlogs. Just FB and APS. That makes me seem weird to young lawyers (late 20s). I think of it as OpSec.
This times eleventy bajillion.
Brad
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I think the age difference and lack of online presence, compared to so many other mass murderers recently, explains why we think it's taking so long for the information on the killer to come out. Maybe this is the just the normal time lag that we'd have, if the social medium wasn't so popular.
Are there other elderly mass murderers that we can use for comparison?
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It's not all about social media ... read thru your list of favorites ... mine is pretty revealing ... even more so would be the hard drive ... I imagine a review of his computer would answer a lot of questions ... ???
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It's not all about social media ... read thru your list of favorites ... mine is pretty revealing ... even more so would be the hard drive ... I imagine a review of his computer would answer a lot of questions ... ???
Unless he scrubbed all of that beforehand, or destroyed his computers, or was so paranoid that he didn't keep any incriminating favorites/bookmarks, and had his browser set to scrub all of the cookies, etc, every time he closed it.
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One question I have not seen answered was why so damn many guns in the room. It makes no sense. Ammo yes. Loaded mags yes. But that many guns not so much.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I can only speculate that he had tried to use a bump fire stock prior to this and found they were prone to overheating guns and leading to jamming. Instead of clearing a FTF or FTE just throw it down and pick up the next one. My 2 cents worth which on the interwebs is worth even less. ;)
bob
I agree.
Considering his accounting and audit background, my gut feeling is he went out in the desert, used a stopwatch, and timed his effective sustained ROF with a bumpstock. He also probably accounted for the rifle heating up beyond what he could tolerate, and because of the time to reload or possible jams, he figured ROF / 100 round Surefire magazines, and x% of stoppages, meant that setting up umpteen rifles got him the most amount of rounds in the 10 minute window or whatever he thought he could shoot for, and still evacuate the hotel as just another "fleeing guest". So he could go on and do phase II with the Tannerite and the other rifle he'd left in his car.
The cost wasn't an issue because of his financial situation, nor did he care because his escape plan seemed predicated around being able to do more attacks, and/or having an "escape plan" was just a mental placebo to get him to commit, and he knew he was going to die all along.
I further suspect when he was actually shooting from his hotel suite, sticking with the same rifle longer was just easier, and despite filling the room with the rifles, he didn't decide to use them, adrenaline or whatever.
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One of the brilliant minds that writes Jimmy Kimmel's gun policy commentary.
https://twitchy.com/sd-3133/2017/10/09/puh-leeze-jimmy-kimmel-writer-cries-sexism-after-being-called-out-for-second-amendment-stupidity/
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An interesting wrinkle that's either pure BS or not, though it is a fact that he killed himself and his daughter the day after an FBI visit ... Article is poorly written as it states he shot himself in the back of the head and doesn't do a good job of tying Beilman to the phone charger that was found in Paddock's room ...
John Beilman was wanted by federal agents in connection to a communications device discovered in Stephen Paddock’s hotel room at the Mandalay Bay.
The FBI had raided Beilman’s home one day before he shot his disabled daughter and then himself, according to sources close to the investigation.
http://yournewswire.com/las-vegas-eyewitness-suicide-fbi/
http://www.democratandchronicle.com/story/news/2017/10/06/john-beilman-nicole-murder-suicide-fbi-search-fairport-rett-syndrome/738874001/
http://www.whec.com/news/man-woman-shot-killed-fairport/4624330/
???
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I wonder what he had on Hillary?
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New news out tonight, the guard was shot before he started shouting at the concert goers
No link not on my computer.
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Did he really shoot himself in the back of the head with a shotgun?
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Unless he scrubbed all of that beforehand, or destroyed his computers, or was so paranoid that he didn't keep any incriminating favorites/bookmarks, and had his browser set to scrub all of the cookies, etc, every time he closed it.
If he even had a computer...
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Did he really shoot himself in the back of the head with a shotgun?
Not likely, but Arkanside has happened...
At this point I assume everything on the news is to push an agenda.
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If he even had a computer...
There were two lap-tops in the hotel room.
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Unless he scrubbed all of that beforehand, or destroyed his computers, or was so paranoid that he didn't keep any incriminating favorites/bookmarks, and had his browser set to scrub all of the cookies, etc, every time he closed it.
That stuff is still around unless you bleach bit it or melt the platters.
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That stuff is still around unless you bleach bit it or melt the platters.
Some truth to that. If you've ever tried to get around the WSJ or NYT paywall, you'll know what just an outsourced cloud provider can do for the dying dead-tree media. Clearing cache and cookies isn't enough. Even visiting it from a different browser on the same PC you've never used before is good enough. Never mind what the government or a really determined party in Silicon Valley could do.
There's a lot of identifying information that can be had, assuming any of the browser apps have an API in them that can reach those parts of the machine. Even if you're running from a write-protected USB boot disk with a Linux distro on it. And you use a different public IP and you spoof your MAC address.
For several years now, all Intel processors, probably others, and probably certain other things on the PC's bus and chipset have unique identifying serial numbers in them that can be queried by various applications poking certain memory registers. Mainly it was intended for trying to get some low level DRM schemes on DVD's, Blu-Ray disks, video codecs etc. But it's really useful for tracking a PC and getting it's "fingerprint" too.
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I don't normally don the tin-foil hat and i'm not doing it now.
If this is a conspiracy then the only thing it could be trying to do is advance gun control.
The hypothetical planners went well out of their way to find someone who was almost totally neutral on politics, religion, other conspiracies, mental health issues, and any other cultural schisms. That way it could only be about EBRs and bump-stocks and the ease of getting ammo.
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Even if you're running from a write-protected USB boot disk with a Linux distro on it. And you use a different public IP and you spoof your MAC address.
For several years now, all Intel processors, probably others, and probably certain other things on the PC's bus and chipset have unique identifying serial numbers in them that can be queried by various applications poking certain memory registers. Mainly it was intended for trying to get some low level DRM schemes on DVD's, Blu-Ray disks, video codecs etc. But it's really useful for tracking a PC and getting it's "fingerprint" too.
Are their similar markers in a virtual machine?
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http://www.businessinsider.com/las-vegas-shooter-had-a-diazepam-prescription-heres-what-that-means-2017-10
He has a footprint. Run of the mill prescription medication caused delusions and paranoia, for $1000, Alex.
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Are their similar markers in a virtual machine?
EDIT: woops. got confused and removed my reply
ANywho
By default, from all the major vendors, VMs are not secure. Remember that the hypervisor is still executing instructions on the physical CPU, and the identifying info of the CPU is passed to the VMs. Short of a purpose built secure sandbox VM and bootable Linux distro set up properly, your VM is not secure
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http://www.businessinsider.com/las-vegas-shooter-had-a-diazepam-prescription-heres-what-that-means-2017-10
He has a footprint. Run of the mill prescription medication caused delusions and paranoia, for $1000, Alex.
And people wonder why I refused to use Zyban (Wellbutrin rebranded for nicotine cessation) and now refuse to use Chantix.
Had a friend put a .45 under his chin and blow the top of his head into a stack of towels a couple weeks after starting Zyban, (The shrink our mutual employer hired afterward said no one would have seen any signs because there likely weren't any; the drug sometimes just shuts down the "catastrophically bad idea" prefilter between the subconscious and the conscious mind, and the conscious mind isn't used to actually getting thoughts like "I should just shoot myself to fix this problem.") and another who caught himself pointing a .38 at his wife a few days after starting Chantix. (That was about a month before Carter Albrecht got himself killed during a Chantix-induced psychotic break...also an interesting anecdote against a warning shot over someone's head, especially blindly; at 6'5" Albrecht was tall enough that the warning shot was an instant kill.)
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Stop it with the drug-talk, citizens. We must remain tightly focused on the evilz of gunz.
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And people wonder why I refused to use Zyban (Wellbutrin rebranded for nicotine cessation) and now refuse to use Chantix.
Had a friend put a .45 under his chin and blow the top of his head into a stack of towels a couple weeks after starting Zyban, (The shrink our mutual employer hired afterward said no one would have seen any signs because there likely weren't any; the drug sometimes just shuts down the "catastrophically bad idea" prefilter between the subconscious and the conscious mind, and the conscious mind isn't used to actually getting thoughts like "I should just shoot myself to fix this problem.") and another who caught himself pointing a .38 at his wife a few days after starting Chantix. (That was about a month before Carter Albrecht got himself killed during a Chantix-induced psychotic break...also an interesting anecdote against a warning shot over someone's head, especially blindly; at 6'5" Albrecht was tall enough that the warning shot was an instant kill.)
It's the Pax.
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Paddock's home was broken into. http://www.rgj.com/story/news/crime/2017/10/10/las-vegas-shooters-reno-home-broken-into-fbi-revisiting/750725001/
I would think his home would be on constant surveillance. ???
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That stuff is still around unless you bleach bit it or melt the platters.
I guess the difference is that social medium content can be quickly ferreted out by an inquisitive public, but taking a magnifying glass to a suspect's computer would only be done by law enforcement. That takes more time, and even then, little to no info may be released to the public.
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Just heard on the news that youtube is pulling all videos on how to make a bump stock. No word on if they're banning videos of guys with their thumbs in a belt loop.
I've yet to hear any mention in the MSM on 3D printer files.
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Just heard on the news that youtube is pulling all videos on how to make a bump stock.
Think of all the lives they just saved.
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I think I mentioned earlier that the brother of the shooter (Eric) is active on another board I belong to. Along with that someone here mentioned, IIRC, that there may be a familial trait of "being not quite right".
After seeing some of the things he has posted on the other board the last few days especially his interaction with both local and Federal LEO I think that may be a fair assessment, even if it is kind of broad. :(
I think if I was part of an investigation into the worst mass shooting in the USA I may just curtail my online presence for a while.
bob
eta: Like this post: i just heard that marilou (his girlfriend) is in the hospital with 'stroke like' symptoms. they put her on the 'tsa watchlist' after telling her she wasn't a suspect. there is no way that they don't have her passport (but i guess it is possible she didn't surrender it, but i bet she did because she returned here with no contest) and they could easily have her under 24 hour surveilance because i know they know her location. if these bastards have maimed or killed her i will rain hell down on them. i will make it my life's goal to make sure that they die broken. and you don't have to worry about them finding this out here, because it's in the public record because i just texted them this...
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Just heard on the news that youtube is pulling all videos on how to make a bump stock. No word on if they're banning videos of guys with their thumbs in a belt loop.
Not really shocking. Youtube has been looking for reasons to pull anything gun related for a long time now, which is why we have Full30.
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According to an article in the Daily Mail, the autopsy of Mr. Paddock showed no brain structure abnormalities. So this does not seem to be a Charles Whitman-type scenario.
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According to an article in the Daily Mail, the autopsy of Mr. Paddock showed no brain structure abnormalities. So this does not seem to be a Charles Whitman-type scenario.
He shot himself in the head, didn't he?
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While i don't wear tinfoil, I'm guessing back of the head as wild as some of these stories are getting.
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Just heard on the news that youtube is pulling all videos on how to make a bump stock. No word on if they're banning videos of guys with their thumbs in a belt loop.
I've yet to hear any mention in the MSM on 3D printer files.
Iraqiveteran8888 posted a video recently. Said they had a 4 year old bump stock video that was flagged. They heard just about any video even discussing it was getting flagged.
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New news out tonight, the guard was shot before he started shouting at the concert goers
No link not on my computer.
... and called hotel security. Whether or not they called 911 quickly enough before the lines got jammed up with everyone else calling is perhaps the pertinent question.
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The maintenance guy called it in via radio about six minutes before Paddock started firing out the window ....
I read that 911 wasn't called until he started shooting out the window ... ??? Oddly it looks like the Security Guard was not registered in Nevada ...
What's up w/ the shooter's house being broken into ...
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What's up w/ the shooter's house being broken into ...
The DNC needed to get the mind control machine out of the attic before someone that cared had a chance to search the house.
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Any idea where the unregistered (ghost) (fbi plant) security guard has gone?
I've been saying since day one shoot quick, disappear in the malay dressed like someone who should be there.
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Any idea where the unregistered (ghost) (fbi plant) security guard has gone?
I've been saying since day one shoot quick, disappear in the malay dressed like someone who should be there.
IIRC, he's still in the hospital.
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No he was supposed to do a press conference Thursday and hasn't been seen since.
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EDIT: woops. got confused and removed my reply
ANywho
By default, from all the major vendors, VMs are not secure. Remember that the hypervisor is still executing instructions on the physical CPU, and the identifying info of the CPU is passed to the VMs. Short of a purpose built secure sandbox VM and bootable Linux distro set up properly, your VM is not secure
Burner laptop. I've got a half dozen cast offs around here.
purpose built secure sandbox VM
I should look into this.
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Any idea where the unregistered (ghost) (fbi plant) security guard has gone?
I've been saying since day one shoot quick, disappear in the malay dressed like someone who should be there.
Apparently he ducked a media interview and everyone went insane that "he disappeared". Same article un-ironically posts that the guy put up a bunch of no-trespassing and stay off my lawn signs for the media, it's not instant evidence of him being being a ghost plant by the FBI/CIA/EPA reptilian supreme council. I'm not sure what kind of plant, possibly a fiddle leaf tree or possibly even a ficus tree.
Until he's wanted by the police, he's just another private citizen being hounded by reporters at best (which is still a pretty horrific thing to go through), and probably truthers at worst. Dude was shot. He's not a person who is being shopped around by a professional publicity staff. People can't just leave the guy alone and let the cops do their thing for even a couple weeks?
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"People can't just leave the guy alone and let the cops do their thing for even a couple weeks?"
NO! NO NO NO NO NO!
THE PEOPLE (our paid readers/advertisers, etc.) HAVE THE RIGHT TO KNOW! HOW DARE HE SCREW WITH OUR BOTTOM LINE BY DENYING THE PEOPLE (our paid readers/advertisers, etc.) THE RIGHT TO KNOW?!!?
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Apparently he ducked a media interview and everyone went insane that "he disappeared". Same article un-ironically posts that the guy put up a bunch of no-trespassing and stay off my lawn signs for the media, it's not instant evidence of him being being a ghost plant by the FBI/CIA/EPA reptilian supreme council. I'm not sure what kind of plant, possibly a fiddle leaf tree or possibly even a ficus tree.
Until he's wanted by the police, he's just another private citizen being hounded by reporters at best (which is still a pretty horrific thing to go through), and probably truthers at worst. Dude was shot. He's not a person who is being shopped around by a professional publicity staff. People can't just leave the guy alone and let the cops do their thing for even a couple weeks?
You can about apply some of this to what's going on with the shooter, as well as all sorts of other people and incidents. Once again, if info (aka "dirt") is not readily available on the intertoobz, there's some deep dark conspiracy in the works.
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You can about apply some of this to what's going on with the shooter, as well as all sorts of other people and incidents. Once again, if info (aka "dirt") is not readily available on the intertoobz, there's some deep dark conspiracy in the works.
Na. All the documentation in the world isn't enough for Truthers.
Bart Sibrel, a pseudo famous moon denier, went full loonie and assaulted Buzz Aldrin while calling him a liar and coward, forcing Mr Aldrin to punch Mr Sibrel in the face in order to defend himself.
I could show anyone how steel loses 90% of its structural strength when heated for a minute or two in my forge. And yet 9/11 truthers exist.
Sandy Hook has a bunch of loonies claiming it was... anyone other than a guy with mental issues.
It's not about info, dirt, the truth, human decency, etc. Some people just can't accept reality to be other than what they wish or imagine it to be. To be fair, a lot of such folks have severe mental issues and potentially legit have an inability to determine reality.
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I could show anyone how steel loses 90% of its structural strength when heated for a minute or two in my forge. And yet 9/11 truthers exist.
Blows my mind still. Once the integrity of the buildings were compromised, and they started to collapse....that was it...but somehow a pancake collapse just must be a controlled demo....because the acceleration of the collapsing stories is impossible....sigh.
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I could show anyone how steel loses 90% of its structural strength when heated for a minute or two in my forge. And yet 9/11 truthers exist.
You heard it here first! RevDisk has PROVEN that the Joooooos installed forges into the WTC towers to bring them down!
WAKE UP AND SMELL THE PROOF, SHEEPLE!
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Blows my mind still. Once the integrity of the buildings were compromised, and they started to collapse....that was it...but somehow a pancake collapse just must be a controlled demo....because the acceleration of the collapsing stories is impossible....sigh.
AND THEY DIDN'T FALL OVER LIKE TREES! THAT'S PROOF! PROOFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF!*
*proof that the people saying that are just f*expletive deleted*tards...
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My favorite part of Trutherism is the way Cheney's lizard-people blew up the WTC with explosives on lower floors, and decided they'd cover it up by flying planes into the upper floors. Or maybe it's the part where they off-loaded the passengers before they crashed the planes into buidings full of people.
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:facepalm: The missing He's-a-crisis-actor! security guard has re-emerged. On the Ellen Degeneres show.
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:facepalm: The missing He's-a-crisis-actor! security guard has re-emerged. On the Ellen Degeneres show.
That makes sense, Ellen is always giving away new cars and/or big checks to her guests that have done something "extraordinary". I don't what he really did other than walk by the door and get shot, but he has been made into the "hero". Lack of information has made a lot of this whole thing speculation.
bob
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My favorite part of Trutherism is the way Cheney's lizard-people blew up the WTC with explosives on lower floors, and decided they'd cover it up by flying planes into the upper floors. Or maybe it's the part where they off-loaded the passengers before they crashed the planes into buidings full of people.
It's a well known fact that the Health and Human Services administration faked the Apollo moon landings. Unfortunately they hired Stanley Kubrick, who insisted on shooting the faked moon landing on a studio on the moon solely for lighting concerns. It turned out it would have been cheaper to just do the normal Apollo mission, but government spending, what are you going to do.
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They got stiffed. ;)
Schuck was gifted with an all-expenses-paid trip to an Indianapolis Colts game, while Campos was given free season tickets to the Oakland Raiders once they move to Las Vegas.
No big check, no new car. I wonder how long they have been shopping their story, gotta get it out while stil relevant and able to make something i guess.
Bob
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It's a well known fact that the Health and Human Services administration faked the Apollo moon landings.
Now I know it's bogus. It would have been Health, Eduashun and Wewfare at that time.
Unfortunately they hired Stanley Kubrick, who insisted on shooting the faked moon landing on a studio on the moon solely for lighting concerns. It turned out it would have been cheaper to just do the normal Apollo mission, but government spending, what are you going to do.
But then they'd see the alien bases. Or was it the Nazi space fleet?
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Bart Sibrel, a pseudo famous moon denier, went full loonie and assaulted Buzz Aldrin while calling him a liar and coward, forcing Mr Aldrin to punch Mr Sibrel in the face in order to defend himself.
Actually, Aldrin was enraged because he'd just realized that Sibrel, (who forged a birth certificate claiming he was born in 64 as part of the coverup) was actually JFK's murderer, then posed as Jack Ruby to kill Oswald before he could leak the truth. That, coupled with the potential damage to Aldrin's reputation if Sibrel really proved that he hadn't been to the moon, (and the resultant debunking of much of the most "conclusive proof" of a round earth) pretty much demanded a violent response. All this is obvious to anyone who actually does some research.
I could show anyone how steel loses 90% of its structural strength when heated for a minute or two in my forge. And yet 9/11 truthers exist.
Your forge isn't jet fuel powered, is it? Everybody knows coal burns hotter than jet fuel; that's why people use it to heat their homes.
Sandy Hook has a bunch of loonies claiming it was... anyone other than a guy with mental issues.
It was a training run for a new Clinton-bankrolled assassin.
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I don't normally don the tin-foil hat and i'm not doing it now.
If this is a conspiracy then the only thing it could be trying to do is advance gun control.
The hypothetical planners went well out of their way to find someone who was almost totally neutral on politics, religion, other conspiracies, mental health issues, and any other cultural schisms. That way it could only be about EBRs and bump-stocks and the ease of getting ammo.
Something to think about, anyhow.
I do hope they sequestered his brother's machines and ISP accounts by now, though.
Terry
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Meanwhile, even as the media have been frantically searching for the missing hero security guard -- why has the now-former girlfriend fallen COMPLETELY off the radar? Seems to me there's a lot more of interest there. She is a Filipina. Did she have a green card? Is she an Amerivan citizen? She had multiple last names, and may have been married to two different people (at the same time). In fact, she may still be married to one or both of them, even though she was living with the shooter. Other than an initial statement that she din' kno' nuffin', we haven't heard anything from or about her.
Why not?
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Interesting reconstruction of the timeline:
https://www.nytimes.com/video/us/100000005473328/las-vegas-shooting-timeline-12-bursts.html?action=click&contentCollection=Europe&module=Trending&version=Full®ion=Marginalia&pgtype=article
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New information. The laptop the shooter had in the room with him is missing its hard drive. Without getting all tinfoily, either this guy really wanted to leave some big mystery behind, or we could still be looking at accomplices.
I'll tend towards the less tinfoily explanation that the shooter just wanted to make things hard on people afterwards, but that doesn't seem to be the typical motivation in these events. Usually the shooter wants people to know about him.
https://twitchy.com/sarahd-313035/2017/10/25/what-this-update-to-the-vegas-shooting-case-raises-even-more-questions/
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What good is a laptop without a hard drive? It won't even boot up. Why would he bother to bring it at all?
Something ain't right here.
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Why would he bother to bring it at all?
He was there for a number of days before the shooting - maybe he wanted it during that time.
There's no reason he couldn't have taken the hard drive somewhere to dispose of (or hide) the day before or the morning of the shooting. If he had any hopes of getting out of there alive then covering his tracks to some extent would make sense.
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What good is a laptop without a hard drive? It won't even boot up. Why would he bother to bring it at all?
Something ain't right here.
He could have been using some other boot media than a hard drive. A Linux Boot CD or USB Drive could give you an OS with Internet Access. From there you can do just about anything of course.
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He could have been using some other boot media than a hard drive. A Linux Boot CD or USB Drive could give you an OS with Internet Access. From there you can do just about anything of course.
And a flash drive could just be flushed down the toilet.
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And now the guys brother has been arrested on child porn charges.
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And now the guys brother has been arrested on child porn charges.
Apparently this is a third brother, not the one that had been speaking to the press.
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What good is a laptop without a hard drive? It won't even boot up. Why would he bother to bring it at all?
Something ain't right here.
Boot a linux live usb stick. Do whatever, toss the stick out the (now open) window.
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And now the guys brother has been arrested on child porn charges.
There must be something wrong with that family ....... [tinfoil]
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There must be something wrong with that family ....... [tinfoil]
What was your first clue?
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Posted on wrong thread, sorry. Didn't mean to bump this one.
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Posted on wrong thread, sorry. Didn't mean to bump this one.
Yeah, right. :) I've been enjoying rereading the last couple of pages, so thanks.
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(https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-8ixoraq0x8/images/stencil/500x659/products/17048/67807/tin-foil-hat-for-cats-0__73149.1592789481.jpg?c=1)
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Amazing still how buried this story got in a hurry.
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Update
The high-roller gambler who opened fire on concertgoers on the Las Vegas Strip had lost tens of thousands of dollars while gambling weeks before the mass shooting and was upset about how the casinos had treated him, according to FBI documents made public this week.
After Nine Years, FBI Docs Claim Las Vegas Killer Opened Fire Because He Was Angry at Casinos
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/after-nine-years-fbi-docs-claim-las-vegas-killer-opened-fire-because-he-was-angry-at-casinos/
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Update
After Nine Years, FBI Docs Claim Las Vegas Killer Opened Fire Because He Was Angry at Casinos
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/after-nine-years-fbi-docs-claim-las-vegas-killer-opened-fire-because-he-was-angry-at-casinos/
If that was so wouldn’t he have targeted casino staff and possibly gamblers on the floor?
I still think many of these mass shooters are fedboi windup toys
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If that was so wouldn’t he have targeted casino staff and possibly gamblers on the floor?
I still think many of these mass shooters are fedboi windup toys
It's like the old Battling Tops game. Wind them up and turn 'em loose. No particular target in mind.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7u6VqzEjLIQ
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If that was so wouldn’t he have targeted casino staff and possibly gamblers on the floor?
I still think many of these mass shooters are fedboi windup toys
Means, motive and opportunity.