Author Topic: Vegas strip mass shooting!  (Read 56722 times)

French G.

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Re: Vegas strip mass shooting!
« Reply #300 on: October 06, 2017, 02:40:32 PM »
Agreed with AJ, if a maga hat was in the room we would all be in camps by now. Well, some of us.
AKA Navy Joe   

I'm so contrarian that I didn't respond to the thread.

Perd Hapley

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Re: Vegas strip mass shooting!
« Reply #301 on: October 06, 2017, 02:43:34 PM »
Correct. The notion of an "automatic round" is ludicrous. A truly automatic round would be exceptionally dangerous. How could you get it out of the box without it going off? How would the factory get it into the box without it going off? An "automatic round" either wouldn't need a gun, or would shoot itself as soon as it's put in a gun.

I suppose all those ACP cartridges should be renamed, but somehow .45SACP just doesn't ring my chimes.

Someone said that ACP was really meant as a name for the guns. The ammo is properly known as [caliber] Automatic. I'm not sure if that's true, but those ads seem to agree. I call the .45 round ".45 Auto," because it's just easier to say.
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just Warren

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Re: Vegas strip mass shooting!
« Reply #302 on: October 06, 2017, 04:01:30 PM »
To go back to how to counter a threat like this:

Given that small arms are not likely to be of much use when used normally and I doubt any one wants to give cops M2s or M19s or suchlike so might I suggest mounting a pistol on a drone?

I'm sure we've all seen the video of the kid that did that so the concept works.

The drone has the range and the pistol has the lethality. Enough cops with drones would settle any of these sorts of problems unless the shooter was really well-fortified. Still it would be a distraction at the very least.
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Scout26

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Re: Vegas strip mass shooting!
« Reply #303 on: October 06, 2017, 04:20:34 PM »
I agree, they all look like 100 round Surefires to me.

Perhaps this comes too close to the APS prohibition on "grave dancing", but I'm really hoping that he went on the majority of his gun buying spree after Nov. 2nd 2016 and/or whatever motives he had that eventually come out of the investigation to be Lefty or Trump Derangement Syndrome.

The fact he was scoping out Lollapalooza in Chicago last summer belies that theory... OTOH, People were already getting angry on the left over how Bernie was being treated by the DNC in the primary process. Or maybe he did find out Malia Obama would be there and didn't target that because of his ideological reasons...

I'm of the mind that his motivations are going to be either "just plain evil/crazy" and the investigating LEA's honestly don't know, or his motivations were "Lefty" in nature. Because I think the one thing we can all be certain of, is if his motivations were at all Right-wing, we'd have heard about it already, and on the top of every hour since.  Especially considering someone was willing to risk their career to leak the crime scene and suicide photos, just passing along "He hated Democrats" etc. is so much easier. And that makes me think if the motive is known, or strongly suspected, it's been leaked too, but the nominal Left bias of the MSM means they're sitting on it.

He wasn't scoping out Lollapalooza last summer, but a month ago.  This summer, August 2017.

And he had recently started taking Diazepam/Valium.   I'm betting that that had more to do with him basically becoming a Reaver, (along with what would appear to be a genetic predisposition toward crime/violence) then anything else.  

And I'll point out that this loser followed the MO of pretty much every other nutjob like this.  As soon as they meet serious resistance, they off themselves.  That seems to be the key.  Not shooting at the 32nd floor from ground level with handgun or even patrol rifles, but busting in the door and engaging Whacky McNutjob.
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Scout26

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Re: Vegas strip mass shooting!
« Reply #304 on: October 06, 2017, 05:06:03 PM »
Juzst got word that Omnibus Gun Control legislation was introduced in the Illinois House yesterday.  Both NRA and ISRA are going through it to see how "bad" it is.  Given that this is Illinois and Chicago pretty much runs the state (and our RINO/RUNT Governor is worthless at stopping anything Madigan and what the rest of the Chicago Machine/D's want), I predict we're pretty much screwed.  The only good news is that because it will be int he veto session it will take super majorities to pass it.   Until next spring....

http://ilga.gov/legislation/fulltext.asp?DocName=&SessionId=91&GA=100&DocTypeId=HB&DocNum=4107&GAID=14&LegID=107988&SpecSess=&Session=
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Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
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Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.

AJ Dual

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Re: Vegas strip mass shooting!
« Reply #305 on: October 06, 2017, 05:35:02 PM »
He wasn't scoping out Lollapalooza last summer, but a month ago.  This summer, August 2017.

And he had recently started taking Diazepam/Valium.   I'm betting that that had more to do with him basically becoming a Reaver, (along with what would appear to be a genetic predisposition toward crime/violence) then anything else.  

And I'll point out that this loser followed the MO of pretty much every other nutjob like this.  As soon as they meet serious resistance, they off themselves.  That seems to be the key.  Not shooting at the 32nd floor from ground level with handgun or even patrol rifles, but busting in the door and engaging Whacky McNutjob.

Ohhh... well, that at least that keeps "Trump Derangement Syndrome" and him ultimately being a black eye to the Left alive then.
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Ben

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Re: Vegas strip mass shooting!
« Reply #306 on: October 06, 2017, 05:54:48 PM »
Listen to the video and try not to throw anything at your monitor. "Leadership of the NRA didn't know what a bump stock was..." among other WTFs.

https://twitchy.com/dougp-3137/2017/10/06/fake-news-a-palooza-reporter-tries-to-journo-splain-guns-on-cnn-gets-nothing-right/
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Sideways_8

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Re: Vegas strip mass shooting!
« Reply #307 on: October 06, 2017, 08:05:58 PM »
Less people there than are dying with you, first shot from a 5.56 likely breaks up on hitting an unbroken window and firing at an upward angle you will soon hit ceilings of concrete, making only a small triangle of surrounding rooms a lethal area.

Those concrete ceilings are possibly post-tensioned and I've seen specs from engineer that have cables sitting directly on 3/4" slab bolsters which puts the center of the strand right at an inch. Elevated slabs go on my do not shoot list.

KD5NRH

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Re: Vegas strip mass shooting!
« Reply #308 on: October 06, 2017, 09:05:42 PM »
Those concrete ceilings are possibly post-tensioned and I've seen specs from engineer that have cables sitting directly on 3/4" slab bolsters which puts the center of the strand right at an inch. Elevated slabs go on my do not shoot list.

Even better; ceiling comes down on him and you blame the engineers for anything excessive.

Hawkmoon

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Re: Vegas strip mass shooting!
« Reply #309 on: October 07, 2017, 01:59:33 AM »
Those concrete ceilings are possibly post-tensioned and I've seen specs from engineer that have cables sitting directly on 3/4" slab bolsters which puts the center of the strand right at an inch. Elevated slabs go on my do not shoot list.

It's highly unlikely that the slabs are post-tensioned. Post-tensioned tendons don't rest on bolsters, they run in hollow tubes that are cast into the concrete. Then, after the concrete has cured to its design strength, hydraulic jacks are used to pull the strands to the designed tension, at which time wedges on hammered into the ends of the tubes to lock the strands under tension.

You may be thinking about pre-stressed concrete, but that's usually more appropriate for low-rise structures. I would expect a high-rise of the size and scale of the Mandalay Bay to have cast-in-place concrete slabs. Those don't have cables for reinforcing, they use conventional rebar.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2017, 01:47:14 PM by Hawkmoon »
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KD5NRH

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Re: Vegas strip mass shooting!
« Reply #310 on: October 07, 2017, 03:13:09 AM »
You may be thinking about pre-stressed concrete, but that's usually more appropriate for low-rise structures. I would expect a high-rise of the size and scale of the Mandalay Bay to have cast-in-place concrete slabs. Those don't have cables for reinfircing, they use conventional rebar.

What? You can't bring down a significant portion of a high rise hotel with small arms fire? 

There goes my movie plot.

Perd Hapley

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Re: Vegas strip mass shooting!
« Reply #311 on: October 07, 2017, 09:30:33 AM »
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230RN

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Re: Vegas strip mass shooting!
« Reply #312 on: October 07, 2017, 12:08:17 PM »
I agree, they all look like 100 round Surefires to me.

Perhaps this comes too close to the APS prohibition on "grave dancing", but I'm really hoping that he went on the majority of his gun buying spree after Nov. 2nd 2016 and/or whatever motives he had that eventually come out of the investigation to be Lefty or Trump Derangement Syndrome.

...


I'm of the mind that his motivations are going to be either "just plain evil/crazy" and the investigating LEA's honestly don't know, or his motivations were "Lefty" in nature. Because I think the one thing we can all be certain of, is if his motivations were at all Right-wing, we'd have heard about it already, and on the top of every hour since.  Especially considering someone was willing to risk their career to leak the crime scene and suicide photos, just passing along "He hated Democrats" etc. is so much easier. And that makes me think if the motive is known, or strongly suspected, it's been leaked too, but the nominal Left bias of the MSM means they're sitting on it.

I gave up on suspicions of lefty or false flag activity on the theory that proof of that would never ever ever see the light of day.

And neither would the holder of that proof.  >:D

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Angel Eyes

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Re: Vegas strip mass shooting!
« Reply #313 on: October 07, 2017, 12:45:04 PM »
Listen to the video and try not to throw anything at your monitor. "Leadership of the NRA didn't know what a bump stock was..." among other WTFs.

https://twitchy.com/dougp-3137/2017/10/06/fake-news-a-palooza-reporter-tries-to-journo-splain-guns-on-cnn-gets-nothing-right/


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Scout26

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Re: Vegas strip mass shooting!
« Reply #314 on: October 07, 2017, 08:57:36 PM »
Given the evidence and after John Ringo's account (along with years of dealing with my own mother while she was on it), I'm going to have to go with the Diazepam turned a highly organized, perhaps high functioning semi-autistic type, into a murderer.

I know how mean and vicious my mother was during the ten years she was on it.  I could easily see it turning someone who had just recently started taking it into a mass murderer.   Nothing else explains it.  (Despite what the conspiracy theory nuts think.)   He doesn't seem to have a motive, other than "Kill lots of people".  Not ISIS, not Anti-Trump, not "Hates Country Music", or even "Hates music".  There was simply nothing (or at least what anyone could find) or ANYTHING that would give a hint as to the "Why?".

Yet, he shares with many other mass murderers, the same use of psychotropic drugs, in this case he had started to use them not long, like a month or two prior.

Unless they can come up with something, anything, that might point to a motive, that's the only explanation that fits.
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.

Hawkmoon

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Re: Vegas strip mass shooting!
« Reply #315 on: October 07, 2017, 10:10:38 PM »
What? You can't bring down a significant portion of a high rise hotel with small arms fire? 

There goes my movie plot.

You can do anything you want in a movie.

Consider The Towering Inferno. Fairly early in the film, the architect (Paul Newman) knows exactly what electrical panel to go to in order to switch off a circuit. As an architect of several decades of experience, I can tell you that just isn't possible. Maybe the electrical engineer could do that -- maybe -- but definitely not the architect.

Second, how did they put out the fire? They blew the water tanks on the top of the building. "A million gallons of water." NFW! Water weighs 8.35 pounds per gallon -- NOBODY puts 8.35 MILLION pounds of water on top of a skyscraper. The water tanks on top of high rise buildings are sized to hold enough water for short-term, immediate demands. They hold at most a few hundred or a few thousand gallons -- not a million gallons.

But .. Hollywood. Plot device.
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slingshot

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Re: Vegas strip mass shooting!
« Reply #316 on: October 07, 2017, 10:24:57 PM »
He wasn't scoping out Lollapalooza last summer, but a month ago.  This summer, August 2017.

And he had recently started taking Diazepam/Valium.   I'm betting that that had more to do with him basically becoming a Reaver, (along with what would appear to be a genetic predisposition toward crime/violence) then anything else.  

And I'll point out that this loser followed the MO of pretty much every other nutjob like this.  As soon as they meet serious resistance, they off themselves.  That seems to be the key.  Not shooting at the 32nd floor from ground level with handgun or even patrol rifles, but busting in the door and engaging Whacky McNutjob.
That's why it's so hard to defend against people like this.  One week they're normal and the next week or month, they're a raving nutcase bent on causing as much human death and suffering as possible.  I simply can't understand this at all....
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Vegas strip mass shooting!
« Reply #317 on: October 07, 2017, 11:59:44 PM »
That's why it's so hard to defend against people like this.  One week they're normal and the next week or month, they're a raving nutcase bent on causing as much human death and suffering as possible.  I simply can't understand this at all....

But you DO understand it. You just summarized it very succinctly. You just don't want to accept it. That's the problem with most politicians -- they think they have to DO something -- even though every rational mind knows there is nothing that can be done that will have any real effect.

I had a teacher once who cited some Zen master somewhere in saying, "It is your resistance to what is that causes your unhappiness." What is ... is that people like this may be normal one week and go off the deep end the next week, and that it's not just "hard" to defend against this, it's impossible. Accept it and move on. Even a total gun ban and confiscation wouldn't make any difference. If a person like this wants a body count and can't get a gun, they'll use a bomb. It's just that simple.

I already posted a link to an article about the Bath Township, Michigan, school massacre in 1927. The casualty count was about double (or triple) that of Sandy Hook. No guns used -- the weapon was dynamite.
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Ben

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Re: Vegas strip mass shooting!
« Reply #318 on: October 08, 2017, 12:00:35 AM »
Well, I suppose the "gun show loophole" will be back on the table again.

Quote
Paddock bought 1,000 rounds of the .308-caliber and .223-caliber tracer ammunition from a private buyer he met at a Phoenix gun show, a law enforcement official not authorized to comment on the investigation said on condition of anonymity.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/10/07/investigators-reportedly-believe-las-vegas-gunman-had-undiagnosed-mental-illness.html

Sidebar: Why do they keep showing the photo of this guy from when he was like 40?
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Vegas strip mass shooting!
« Reply #319 on: October 08, 2017, 12:50:15 AM »
The tracer rounds that he never used? Are those not available from online retailers?
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Firethorn

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Re: Vegas strip mass shooting!
« Reply #320 on: October 08, 2017, 03:31:04 AM »
Sidebar: Why do they keep showing the photo of this guy from when he was like 40?

Given his lack of social media connections, it's likely the latest photo they could find of him alive.

Chester32141

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Re: Vegas strip mass shooting!
« Reply #321 on: October 08, 2017, 06:54:24 AM »
Looks like Mandalay Bay's CEO sold off most of his stock recently ... is it still the fault of momma's little helper if ISIS was involved ?
 :old:
http://yournewswire.com/mandalay-bay-ceo-terror/
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RoadKingLarry

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Re: Vegas strip mass shooting!
« Reply #322 on: October 08, 2017, 07:39:22 AM »
This crap is getting to be more twisted and tinfoil wrapped than a Hydra conspiracy.
Is there any other source for that?
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LadySmith

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Re: Vegas strip mass shooting!
« Reply #323 on: October 08, 2017, 08:37:16 AM »
This crap is getting to be more twisted and tinfoil wrapped than a Hydra conspiracy.

I think the media misinformation and a current lack of motive are going to fuel a whole lot of conspiracy theories. I'm already starting to hear that the shooter was a plant like some Manchurian Candidate-type guy, programmed to be destructive to further some agenda. [tinfoil]
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Re: Vegas strip mass shooting!
« Reply #324 on: October 08, 2017, 08:47:13 AM »
Well, I suppose the "gun show loophole" will be back on the table again.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/10/07/investigators-reportedly-believe-las-vegas-gunman-had-undiagnosed-mental-illness.html

Sidebar: Why do they keep showing the photo of this guy from when he was like 40?

And I can't imagine them not going after bulk ammo purchasing again.
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