Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: 41magsnub on September 30, 2013, 11:38:19 AM
-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ukdkgLYYbw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ukdkgLYYbw)
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/pack-motorcyclists-chase-man-suv-attack-upper-manhattan-street-fender-bender-west-side-highway-article-1.1471585 (http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/pack-motorcyclists-chase-man-suv-attack-upper-manhattan-street-fender-bender-west-side-highway-article-1.1471585)
Check this video out. A family in a Range rover is harassed by a gang of wannabe bikers in Manhattan (read: no CCW). The bikers cut the SUV off and force it to stop. Once they start harassing him after stopping, the driver floors it, running over a few bikes and makes a run for it. They follow him and eventually he gets stopped in traffic. The bikers smash the windows and beat the guy up.
The video is a helmet cam on one of the bikers.
What would you do in this situation given the constraints of being in Manhattan. You don't get to shoot the bikers.
-
Find a better route through traffic? Drive to a police station or find a cop?
Did he call the cops before he ran over some bikes?
I don't suppose he could have seen the bikers and kept his distance better? Not sure why they started harrassing him in the first place.
-
Running them over was a good start but he should have started playing pinball with the group when they got back up to a higher speed by slamming into them with quick lane changes.
I give him an A+ on good instinct (get the hell out of there and run over some of them initially) but a B on aggressiveness.
-
Okay, can't watch the video now. If he had that opportunity, he should have used it.
-
This video is under discussion on my sportbike board.
Here are my thoughts.
A.) Bikers have this idiotic habit of trying to "force" people out of "their group" when cars are forced to merge on onramps, etc. I hate this practice. From comments throughout the web, this appears to have been the SUV's first offense against the snowflakes' delicate sensibilities, where "share the road" means "GIMME"
B.) the guy in jeans/vest got in front of the SUV and slowed WAY down. He was so close, a tap was inevitable.
C.) When the tap happened, they forced his SUV to a stop and surrounded him, attempting to get him out of the vehicle. I don't doubt for a second that he'd have gotten a beatdown had he tried to have a conversation with them.
D.) Wife and kid in the car. Yeah. *expletive deleted*ck you guys. Get out of my way or get run down.
As for the subsequent chase, I think he should have stayed on the freeway and kept moving while waiting for cops. But that's just me.
Bottom line: Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Screw those aholes. I'm tired of sportbikers doing silly *expletive deleted*it like this to clog up roads intentionally, then getting all butthurt when bad things happen.
-
Running them over was a good start but he should have started playing pinball with the group when they got back up to a higher speed by slamming into them with quick lane changes.
I give him an A+ on good instinct (get the hell out of there and run over some of them initially) but a B on aggressiveness.
Agree - when they stopped him and assault the vehicle, they upgraded their status from "annoyance" to "menace." They remained a clear and present danger when they pursued.
By the end, very few traffic jams are so densely packed that an SUV driver can't move his vehicle enough to make things difficult for assaulting pedestrians, even if his bumpers hit those of the vehicles ahead and behind.
If this becomes more common, I suggest this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQbHnLSasfQ
-
Once a certain line was crossed, I would have been more aggressive with my >3000# weapon. More sudden braking, more maneuvering, more impacts. And I would have stayed on multilane roadway without stop lights or choke points if possible and I would have used reverse gear if I found myself blocked.
The SUV driver was probably scared, but he wasn't committed.
-
I didn't get to see the viseo, maybe later...
I bunch of bikers try to box me in and bring me to a halt?
Homey don't play dat- unless the bikes have flashing blue and red lights.
Switch transfer case into 4high and and start running the sumb1543s over- forward, reverse, in circles, whatever it takes.
-
Running them over was a good start but he should have started playing pinball with the group when they got back up to a higher speed by slamming into them with quick lane changes.
I give him an A+ on good instinct (get the hell out of there and run over some of them initially) but a B on aggressiveness.
I concur. Should have stayed on the highway, called the cops, and play the good guy (only respond aggressively if they try anything) until the cops show up.
Btw: FRONT LINE SOLDIERS MC
http://www.frontlinesoldiersmc.com/#!about
This is why wearing colors, or any distinctive markings, always struck me as odd. Also, if you commit a crime, it's not wise to video tape it and post it online. Unless the guy was ensuring that the folks that committed violence paid for it.
-
Target the protoplasm not the metal hit em but aim to get body parts not wheels or handle bars. Get one good? Finish em. To encourage the others. And always keep mr tireiron under seat next to mr fire extinguisher.
damn phone
-
Target the protoplasm not the metal hit em but aim to get body parts not wheels or handle bars. Get one good? Finish em. To encourage the others. And always keep mr tireiron under seat next to mr fire extinguisher.
damn phone
This is also why i avoid areas where I cannot carry.
Someone bashes in my window attempting to pull me out? That's an attempt on my life.
-
Yeah, that would have gone massively different had the SUV driver been armed with a firearm, I think.
As for me, I concur on the 3000 pound weapon idea. You attempt to pursue and box me in, I'M RUNNING YOU OVER.
You will be greasing my fricking axles.
I hope these punks go to jail for this bullshit.
-
The guy did exactly what he should have- He stopped when the idiot on the bike forced him to hit said idiot- The biker pulled in three feet in front of him and hit the brakes! Then, when the the rest were aggressive, he got out of there ASAP. Suggestions that he should have played ping pong with the rest is not legitimate self defense- that is offensive in nature.
From the video, it looks like the squids were pissed he was driving too slow, even though they had enough room to get around in the other two open lanes. So some jacked up guy decides to "prove something". He is very lucky he was not killed instantly by being dragged under the car.
Makes me a tiny bit ashamed to be even remotely associated by way of my hobby. Now everyone who is not a biker is going to see this and get a bad impression.
-
. . . Suggestions that he should have played ping pong with the rest is not legitimate self defense- that is offensive in nature . . .
Not if the group that assaulted the vehicle pursued when their intended victim - the guy in the SUV with his family - tried to break contact.
-
Not if the group that assaulted the vehicle pursued when their intended victim - the guy in the SUV with his family - tried to break contact.
Agree. There is a lot we don't know and can't get from the video but there was a point when they became aggressors and clearly threatened the driver and his family. the driver would have been justified (IMO) in using whatever means he had available ie 3000 pound rolling weapon to stop the threat.
I don't see this as a negative for all bikers or MCs, just for this particular group of punks.
-
I am liking little cars less and less all the time.
All that gas you save ain't worth a darn if you are dead.
-
To paraphrase or blatently steal from Jeff Copper- "Do not attend a vehicular fight with a vehicle whose number of wheels does not begin with a 4."
-
If SWMBO is in the rig w/ me, she's on the phone w/ 911 giving them our location, direction of travel, and running narrative of what's happening. I'm focusing entirely on driving. If it's just me, speakerphone and I'm trying to do the same. If I feel my life is at risk, I'm with most of you - stay on freeway where you don't have traffic lights, etc. If I hit a traffic jam, I'm in the shoulder, median, whatever the hell I have to drive on to NOT STOP. My truck weighs 7300 lbs empty. If they try to box me in and stop me, well, let's just hope I don't rip something important off the bottom of my truck.... 'cause if I feel I'm in danger, there's no way in hell I'm gonna let them stop me.
If by some chance I find myself stuck in traffic? Reference truck weight above - if I have to push other cars out of my way, well then so be it. As long as I can safely do it, I will ignore traffic lights, wrong way signs, etc.
-
Now, in an ounce of fairness. From the video, how many bikers do you think clearly saw the white bike essentially try to commit suicide by ramming the front of the SUV? Half a dozen? The entire process was over in 3 seconds. With limited angles of viewing.
My guess is one stupid person did something stupid. Others responded without the necessary information. SUV owner spooked, ran. All of the pack saw the SUV crunch some bikes. Probably without seeing white bike playing stupid games in order to win the stupid prize. So, they pursued as a pack.
Failure of leadership. Hell, no one seemed to be thinking. Doesn't let the bikers off the hook for their crimes. Just saying, it's easy for things to get stupid when there's a LARGE chunk of information missing. If you started the video at the bike crunching, you'd think of things quite differently.
-
This is under discussion on every motorcycle board. Brake checking anything is stupid on a bike, apparently the bikers instigated it and he took off when one of them tried to open his door. Can't fault him for that.
-
Now, in an ounce of fairness. From the video, how many bikers do you think clearly saw the white bike essentially try to commit suicide by ramming the front of the SUV? Half a dozen? The entire process was over in 3 seconds. With limited angles of viewing.
My guess is one stupid person did something stupid. Others responded without the necessary information. SUV owner spooked, ran. All of the pack saw the SUV crunch some bikes. Probably without seeing white bike playing stupid games in order to win the stupid prize. So, they pursued as a pack.
Failure of leadership. Hell, no one seemed to be thinking. Doesn't let the bikers off the hook for their crimes. Just saying, it's easy for things to get stupid when there's a LARGE chunk of information missing. If you started the video at the bike crunching, you'd think of things quite differently.
Rev has a good point here: in a pack situation like this, the bikers may believe their cause is righteous.
You're just as dead from people who are mistaken as you are from evil people. Sometimes you might have to hurt people who think they are "doing the right thing". (I'm betting most of the bikers didn't think the plan was to run this family down and attack him. In fact, I'm betting most of the bikers didn't think.)
-
Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly said cops were trying to identify some of the bikers, but most of the motorcycles captured in the footage didn’t have license plates on the vehicles.
Damn squids.
-
Running them over was a good start but he should have started playing pinball with the group when they got back up to a higher speed by slamming into them with quick lane changes.
I give him an A+ on good instinct (get the hell out of there and run over some of them initially) but a B on aggressiveness.
An F for Followthrough. They pulled him out of the car and beat him later.
Stick to more open roads. Refuse to stop for anyone except a marked cruiser.
Now, in an ounce of fairness. From the video, how many bikers do you think clearly saw the white bike essentially try to commit suicide by ramming the front of the SUV? Half a dozen? The entire process was over in 3 seconds. With limited angles of viewing.
My guess is one stupid person did something stupid. Others responded without the necessary information. SUV owner spooked, ran. All of the pack saw the SUV crunch some bikes. Probably without seeing white bike playing stupid games in order to win the stupid prize. So, they pursued as a pack.
Failure of leadership. Hell, no one seemed to be thinking. Doesn't let the bikers off the hook for their crimes. Just saying, it's easy for things to get stupid when there's a LARGE chunk of information missing. If you started the video at the bike crunching, you'd think of things quite differently.
No. Nope. No fairness. They immediately went into mob mentality. Follow and call the popo. Not their place to commence with street justice. Missing information or not.
-
It should be noted that these folks were criminals before the attack, riding sans plates (which I don't really care about as it's administrative not mala in se) and stunting on public roads (which I do care about as it risks the lives of other drivers).
-
one thing a former squid notices?
a change in the group dynamics.
there are girls riding now and guys really get stupid fronting and strutting in front of women.
squish a couple fools who break bad like that makes em easy to identify. had a fool do the brake check thing on me with a mixed group of 6 or 7 similar fools. its a good way to die
-
No CCW? Me? Gimpy, out-of-shape me? There's going to be some body damage (sheet metal or protoplasm, does not matter which) once first contact is made. (No, I do not conside ramming the front of the Range Rover first contact. Pounding on the vehicle, trying to open a door, trying to smash a window all qualify.)
Apparently we all know to stay on the limited-access road and use all the territory between the guardrails to our advantage. Heck, if a NASCAR driver can squeeze his opponent up against the wall, think how much fun a crotch-rocket driver* would have being squeezed?
I was a bit surprized to not see NYPD accompanying this "annual event" either to enforce their parade permit privileges or to see they obeyed the traffic laws. Guess they are still too busy stopping and frisking everybody. :angel:
stay safe.
* - I will not refer to them as bikers". At least for me that term connotes a certain species of motorcycle rider of which these were not.
-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i98QrSSHxo4
-
This is the same crowd from earlier in the day. Gotta love all the German novelty helmets.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=xesQBsbxf_o (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=xesQBsbxf_o)
And the same group from earlier this year. Today's incident probably started similar to 1:15 in this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=0ujSkztMRrs#t=60 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=0ujSkztMRrs#t=60)
-
Now, in an ounce of fairness. From the video, how many bikers do you think clearly saw the white bike essentially try to commit suicide by ramming the front of the SUV? Half a dozen? The entire process was over in 3 seconds. With limited angles of viewing.
My guess is one stupid person did something stupid. Others responded without the necessary information. SUV owner spooked, ran. All of the pack saw the SUV crunch some bikes. Probably without seeing white bike playing stupid games in order to win the stupid prize. So, they pursued as a pack.
Failure of leadership. Hell, no one seemed to be thinking. Doesn't let the bikers off the hook for their crimes. Just saying, it's easy for things to get stupid when there's a LARGE chunk of information missing. If you started the video at the bike crunching, you'd think of things quite differently.
I've seen these types before
They look for excuses to *expletive deleted*ck with people
Even absent the brake checking, to surround him, force him to a stop, and beat on his windows.... They all saw this. Then, he careened through them
They deserved it. Too bad some didn't die
-
No CCW? Me? Gimpy, out-of-shape me? There's going to be some body damage (sheet metal or protoplasm, does not matter which) once first contact is made. (No, I do not conside ramming the front of the Range Rover first contact. Pounding on the vehicle, trying to open a door, trying to smash a window all qualify.)
Apparently we all know to stay on the limited-access road and use all the territory between the guardrails to our advantage. Heck, if a NASCAR driver can squeeze his opponent up against the wall, think how much fun a crotch-rocket driver* would have being squeezed?
I was a bit surprized to not see NYPD accompanying this "annual event" either to enforce their parade permit privileges or to see they obeyed the traffic laws. Guess they are still too busy stopping and frisking everybody. :angel:
stay safe.
* - I will not refer to them as bikers". At least for me that term connotes a certain species of motorcycle rider of which these were not.
I've seen the same, and worse, behavior out of cruiser riders
It's not about the type of bike
-
I've seen the same, and worse, behavior out of cruiser riders
It's not about the type of bike
This.
-
Also LOL at my new name
-
Well Dixie, it is also being discussed on several of the bike boards I visit also, and the consensus is the SUV driver should have gone motorcycle bowling.
And while we are at it, let's give some props to those guys at Range Rover, that 5000lb luxury SUV climbed right over those bikes. Good traction, good obstacle clearance. But then again, the Brits did invent four wheel drive. ;)
Squids, they pull that crap in Seattle once a year now also, blocking traffic, stunting and generally being ... well... squids.
I took a little bit of grief for saying I would shoot the window smasher, but not much.
bob
-
Well Dixie, it is also being discussed on several of the bike boards I visit also, and the consensus is the SUV driver should have gone motorcycle bowling.
And while we are at it, let's give some props to those guys at Range Rover, that 5000lb luxury SUV climbed right over those bikes. Good traction, good obstacle clearance. But then again, the Brits did invent four wheel drive. ;)
Squids, they pull that crap in Seattle once a year now also, blocking traffic, stunting and generally being ... well... squids.
I took a little bit of grief for saying I would shoot the window smasher, but not much.
bob
If they pay for a parade permit, I have very few complaints. Most would probably be about the cops not enforcing both the general laws and the parade permit restrictions.
I hear polycarbonate/polyethelene has replaced hickory.
stay safe.
-
Our local fairgrounds is a fairly popular campground for biker events during the summer- BMW owners, HOG, etc. Never any problems even with numbers ranging from 1000-15,000. A few years back a group which had oddly coincidentally similar demographics to those shown in the videos had a camp out weekend at the fairgrounds. Several brawls and a shooting occurred.
-
Suggestions that he should have played ping pong with the rest is not legitimate self defense- that is offensive in nature.
Perfectly legit when they are trying to lynch you...
-
I'm appalled at the lack of motorcycle carnage involved in this incident. Try to kill me & mine, and you become fair game....and my game is Whack-A-Mole....
-
Riders are lucky he wasn't CCW and that they weren't turned into grease spots on the road. Do that to me and you're not only getting run over but try to open my door someone is getting hurt. I might get a few bruises but you'll know you were in a fight.
-
I want my next vehicle to have 4 wheel drive, and be one that's compatible with ARB brand bumpers/"brushguards".
-
Suggestions that he should have played ping pong with the rest is not legitimate self defense- that is offensive in nature.
Nope. They were chasing him AFTER having already attempted to assault him. THEY were on the offense, which means anything he might have done to defend himself and his family was defensive.
-
I want my next vehicle to have 4 wheel drive, and be one that's compatible with ARB brand bumpers/"brushguards".
We can redneck engineer you a stout for hell war bumper...maybe with some nice spikes for more death power...
-
We can redneck engineer you a stout for hell war bumper...maybe with some nice spikes for more death power...
Ya know... I was thinking about that. Although the finished commercial product looks better for when the lights are still on, and you have to get up in the morning and go to work.
But I like the spikes idea. Retractable somehow, kind of make it look like a plausible part of the car, at least to a cursory examination, and the "spikes" shouldn't be spiky at all. Make them somewhat blunt and square-edged, so they don't raise alarm or stand apart from normal "car trauma". And retracting is also important for not getting hung up on bodies...
In the ZOMBIE APOCALYPSE of course... not just some asshat squids.
-
The newest icon to be placed on the RR dash. ;)
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv254%2FGaTechBMW%2Frrover_zps29f4c28f.png&hash=f3784c372a5f55c0f8d48aa849b9544b19b6c44d)
bob
-
Lol
-
Despite his later tactical mistakes he started out with the right idea. Were it me? Once they actively started pursuing me in my get away I would have gone on the offensive. Actively trying to bin them on jersey barriers and knock bikes down. That large a mob makes for a huge disparity of force.
While I try not to be bloodthirsty, after watching all the linked videos I can't help but think some of that gang need to be killed by "victim" vehicles; pour le encourage les autres.
-
Despite his later tactical mistakes he started out with the right idea. Were it me? Once they actively started pursuing me in my get away I would have gone on the offensive. Actively trying to bin them on jersey barriers and knock bikes down. That large a mob makes for a huge disparity of force.
While I try not to be bloodthirsty, after watching all the linked videos I can't help but think some of that gang need to be killed by "victim" vehicles; pour le encourage les autres.
Yeah, there was definitely a need for some varmint culling...
-
there are true believers who believe the bikers were "done wrong" seek out those comments at your own risk
-
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/10/01/new-york-man-celebrating-first-anniversary-with-wife-child-left-for-dead-after/?intcmp=latestnews
They have found some of the people in the video and charges are being pursued. One of the bikers is in a coma and more than likely paralyzed from the waist down. His wife is crying about someone needs to pay. No charges for the SUV driver. Apparently the reason for getting off the highway was because his tires had been slashed and he was looking for an escape route.
-
If Obama had a son, would he be a member of a motorcycle gang ? =|
-
One of the bikers is in a coma and more than likely paralyzed from the waist down. His wife is crying about someone needs to pay
Someone paid alright you stupid twit. Your husband, when he decided to be part of a mob assault on an innocent party...hell I think it's more satisfactory that he's paralyzed instead of dead, nothing like being a walking rolling reminder of what an idiot looks like for the rest of his life.
-
Someone paid alright you stupid twit. Your husband, when he decided to be part of a mob assault on an innocent party...hell I think it's more satisfactory that he's paralyzed instead of dead, nothing like being a walking rolling reminder of what an idiot looks like for the rest of his life.
Yup. This smacks of "BUT HE WAS SUCH A GOOD BOY!" to me.
-
I'm thinking that some high speed swerving in all three lanes, and intermittent hard braking, would have discouraged most of them. Make em deal with their wounded.
-
According to TFA, his tires were slashed.
Question: So, in the final analysis, would he have been best off just stopping behind the white bike that brake-checked him? Now I think I understand that the bikers were trying to take over the highway and he was stopping them from doing that. On the other hand, if you stop and let them get in front of you then you lose the benefit of mobility if they turn out NOT to be merely endangering everyone and wasting their time by taking over the highway.
Even though I DO usually have a CCW weapon, things like this make me feel pathetically underarmed with a compact 9mm.
-
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/10/01/new-york-man-celebrating-first-anniversary-with-wife-child-left-for-dead-after/?intcmp=latestnews
They have found some of the people in the video and charges are being pursued. One of the bikers is in a coma and more than likely paralyzed from the waist down. His wife is crying about someone needs to pay. No charges for the SUV driver. Apparently the reason for getting off the highway was because his tires had been slashed and he was looking for an escape route.
“This man needs to know he hurt someone,” Jeremiah Mieses' wife Dayana Mieses told Boston.CBSLocal.com. “That man paralyzed my husband. He needs to pay for what he did.”
Dayana Mieses told the station that her husband has injuries to his heart, lungs and ribs and that he is paralyzed from the waist down.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
-
Question: So, in the final analysis, would he have been best off just stopping behind the white bike that brake-checked him? Now I think I understand that the bikers were trying to take over the highway and he was stopping them from doing that. On the other hand, if you stop and let them get in front of you then you lose the benefit of mobility if they turn out NOT to be merely endangering everyone and wasting their time by taking over the highway.
I'm not understanding this. After the initial collision with the bike that purposefully caused the wreck the range rover driver stopped (expecting to exchange insurance information and call for emergency assistance per normal traffic accident procedures). The bikers had a different idea once the rover was stopped and started attacking the family in the rover.
-
Ok. I didn't see it that way. I only saw any attacking after the SUV driver refused (justifiably) to stop as fast as the bikers wanted him to. Which may have lead to the brake-checking in the first place. We don't know what happened before the video that I saw, which started right before the brake-check.
Note: the SUV driver had every right to keep going. I'm only asking, if this ever happens, is it a safer bet to let the riders have their fun and block off the highway, or is it as safer bet to keep moving. Because if you keep moving, then you might need to be prepared to "greeze" some bikers, even if they get in front of you and try to brake-check you. Because stopping for the brake-checking-bike is what lead to this guy's tires getting slashed.
-
is it as safer bet to keep moving.
A stopped vehicle is a lot more vulnerable than a moving vehicle. Who says they weren't intending to stop the vehicle with the intention of assaulting it in the first place? After all members of the group had apparently committed other attacks and were wanted. The more I think about it the more it seems to me that they may have boxed him in and stopped the SUV in order to assault the occupants...look at how coordinated the stop was and how everybody jumped off their bikes quickly...no confusion as to what happened there, plus no hesitation on mounting back up when the SUV fled the initial assault. Sure as hell looked planned and coordinated to me.
The way I see it a group of unknown individuals boxing you in like that and stopping you can only mean bad things are about to happen.
-
So, correct me if I'm wrong, but for zach's sake, this is my understanding of the sequence of events.
Dude and his family go for a drive, not knowing asshats are staging a spectacle. One biker deliberatly cuts him off and brake checks causing a non-injury fender bender. Other bikers start pounding the car and slashing the tires. Fearing for his and his family's life he guns it and escapes seriously injuring one biker in the process. Some bikes tend the wounded, others give chase. Eventually the surround the SUV drag the dude out, beat and slash him and leave him for dead. Cops finally catch up, transport him to the hospital, and and that's the end.
-
Dude and his family go for a drive, not knowing asshats are staging a spectacle. One biker deliberatly cuts him off and brake checks causing a non-injury fender bender. Other bikers start pounding the car and slashing the tires. Fearing for his and his family's life he guns it and escapes seriously injuring one biker in the process. Some bikes tend the wounded, others give chase. Eventually the surround the SUV drag the dude out, beat and slash him and leave him for dead. Cops finally catch up, transport him to the hospital, and and that's the end.
I think the biker that brake checked got an injured leg for his genius idea, and I've heard it was broken, but essentially you have it.
-
One more view of the incident.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=INfElroIKO0
-
The way I see it a group of unknown individuals boxing you in like that and stopping you can only mean bad things are about to happen.
Like I said before, if the boxing vehicles don't have flashing red and blues, its game on.
-
Those clowns had gotten used to getting away with breaking bad. Bet a search will yield other incidents. Cue whining of " why do the cops pick at us?"
damn phone
-
Pretty good example of the "herd" mentality. To me, stopping or impeding someone on the road for no other reason than "we can" is akin to kidnapping. The Rover driver had good reason to fear for his life and it's just a pity he couldn't take out more of those imbeciles. :mad:
-
A stopped vehicle is a lot more vulnerable than a moving vehicle. Who says they weren't intending to stop the vehicle with the intention of assaulting it in the first place? After all members of the group had apparently committed other attacks and were wanted. The more I think about it the more it seems to me that they may have boxed him in and stopped the SUV in order to assault the occupants...look at how coordinated the stop was and how everybody jumped off their bikes quickly...no confusion as to what happened there, plus no hesitation on mounting back up when the SUV fled the initial assault. Sure as hell looked planned and coordinated to me.
The way I see it a group of unknown individuals boxing you in like that and stopping you can only mean bad things are about to happen.
IMHO They were trying to squirt the SUV out the back of the formation. I had a group of some riders here in Texas try to do that to me when I was hauling ass to a wedding in Austin. They were doing 55 in a 65 and when I began trying to thread my way through them they closed ranks and slowed down. I just put my redneck hat on and passed on the shoulder. Of course, I had 3 guns in reach and 6,000 pounds of truck at my disposal. [ar15]
-
if it were me and my family, i'd have done the same thing as the suv driver. i'm curious what the law states regarding a self defense incident like this? gun laws are fairly clear about how and when defensive shootings may occur, but i've never read anything regarding vehicular uses of force. i'm surprised there is no whining from the anti "stand your ground" contingent. perhaps they will bring in some prosecuters from florida to make the charges (against the suv driver) in another week or so.
-
Well, from now on I'm going to have not so sanguine thoughts about groups of murdercyclists ;)
You ride with outlaws, you die with outlaws.
-
http://www.carscoops.com/2013/10/the-footage-that-nyc-bikers-didn-want.html
-
Those clowns had gotten used to getting away with breaking bad. Bet a search will yield other incidents. Cue whining of " why do the cops pick at us?"
damn phone
Nope. Nearly every motorcyclist I know, and almost all the ones on my sportbike board, are thinking the SUV driver did the right thing, and that the motorcyclists are in the wrong.
-
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/10/01/bikers-suv-nyc/2906385/
i am pretty used to a lotta of crying when guys on crotch rockets get pulled over and the cops act like they are gonna flee or be lawless. [popcorn]
-
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/10/01/bikers-suv-nyc/2906385/
i am pretty used to a lotta of crying when guys on crotch rockets get pulled over and the cops act like they are gonna flee or be lawless. [popcorn]
Just like gun owners get riled at unfair persecution.
The activity and the tool are separate.
Just because one rides a sportbike does not make one a criminal any more than owning a Glock fowty does
-
Nope. Nearly every motorcyclist I know, and almost all the ones on my sportbike board, are thinking the SUV driver did the right thing, and that the motorcyclists are in the wrong.
Sorry if I've asked before, but what board do you frequent? Most of the ones I've seen have been low traffic low quality.
-
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/10/01/new-york-man-celebrating-first-anniversary-with-wife-child-left-for-dead-after/?intcmp=latestnews
They have found some of the people in the video and charges are being pursued. One of the bikers is in a coma and more than likely paralyzed from the waist down. His wife is crying about someone needs to pay. No charges for the SUV driver. Apparently the reason for getting off the highway was because his tires had been slashed and he was looking for an escape route.
Still should have stayed on the highway. Even at 10 mph. It'll sure as hell gets the cops attention.
-
Still should have stayed on the highway. Even at 10 mph. It'll sure as hell gets the cops attention.
Double-plus ditto.
It was only a matter of blocks, stoplights and chance until he was compelled to come to a stop due to traffic obstacles. Staying on the freeway and leaving a pile of horizontal bikes and riders with broken bones will bring police plenty quick if the RR occupants didn't have a cell phone for whatever reason.
-
Sorry if I've asked before, but what board do you frequent? Most of the ones I've seen have been low traffic low quality.
Have you tried www.pnwriders.com ? Kind of like Arfcom, but for bikers in the PNW. A lot of good people and therads, and then some squids and their posts. But all in all, it works out.
I also hang out at http://www.triumphrat.net/ at times, well more than I should, but they have a fairly large thrad going on this right now.
bob
-
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/10/01/bikers-suv-nyc/2906385/
i am pretty used to a lotta of crying when guys on crotch rockets get pulled over and the cops act like they are gonna flee or be lawless. [popcorn]
according to the above story, the hospitalized biker was helping another injured biker when he was hit. does that mean he was hit after the suv left?
-
A lot of this is clear as mud. The beginning of the video doesn't show much of anything, other than the awesome obstacle clearing capabilities of the Range Rover. I guarantee you, if there were videos out there that exonerated the bikers, they would be posted all over the internet by now. There won't be, because a video showing that doesn't exist.
bob
-
Yeah, the only possible scenario for him "helping an injured rider" that I can think of that would be true would be if the guy who initially brake checked the RR fell off at the first collision and he was tending to him. But even in that case, he'd still be right there and see that the driver was getting attacked so...
-
check out poster moa1's crazy
http://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?s=505550bb2a34ee465d0e9d5487c41949&t=320149
-
Yeah, the only possible scenario for him "helping an injured rider" that I can think of that would be true would be if the guy who initially brake checked the RR fell off at the first collision and he was tending to him. But even in that case, he'd still be right there and see that the driver was getting attacked so...
unless he was helping someone that was injured by the suv's get away, and then was struck by another vehicle on the freeway?
btw, did anyone else notice that even after the suv's window appeared to break, it still remained intact? i'm wondering if range rover has an "impact resistant glass" option.
-
Dude and his family go for a drive, not knowing asshats are staging a spectacle. One biker deliberatly cuts him off and brake checks causing a non-injury fender bender. Other bikers start pounding the car and slashing the tires.
That's not necessarily what happened. As others have pointed out, there is no video of the pre-brake-check festivities. I think a more likely chain of events is:
Dude and his family go for a drive, not knowing asshats are staging a spectacle. ...Bikers try to take over the highway and range rover driver does not play along. This angers the bikers, leading to ... One biker deliberatly cuts him off and brake checks causing a non-injury fender bender. Other bikers start pounding the car and slashing the tires.
In many self-defense scenarios, complying is an option (i.e. just give them your wallet, because it's cheaper than shooting them). This might have been one of those scenarios. I think it's worth discussing at least as much as proper evasion techniques and weaponry.
-
Zahc, only one problem, how is SUV driver supposed to know that the asshats are trying to take over the highway to be asshats, and not trying to slow him down to rob/maim/carjack/etc.?
-
Rules just changed for bikers. Do something stupid? Try what these guys did? Get dead. Unintended consequences. And i expect the cops to crack down.
damn phone
-
there is no video of the pre-brake-check festivities
The 24 seconds of video before the brake check don't count?
...Bikers try to take over the highway and range rover driver does not play along
Except range rover driver DID try to "play along". When the bikes got in front of him and slowed down he was in the process of slowing down at the same rate when f***tardo decided to to do the brake check.
(i.e. just give them your wallet, because it's cheaper than shooting them)
Yeah because the robber's just gonna take your wallet and play by "the rules" and not shoot or stab you after you give him the wallet. God knows the criminals have a "rulebook" that they follow every time.
-
..... i'm curious what the law states regarding a self defense incident like this? gun laws are fairly clear about how and when defensive shootings may occur, but i've never read anything regarding vehicular uses of force. .....
Use of force is use of force. Use of lethal/deadlyt force is use of lethal/deadly force. THe implement used has nothing to do with it.
Wonder if you got all wrapped around "vehicular manslaughter", which really should be no different than baseball-bat manslaughter or watermelon manslaughter.
Strange how the actual outcome of the situation supports the notion that there was reason to fear imminent death or serious bodily injury once the clowns started their game.
stay safe.
-
Liveleak had several other videos that helmet cam boy had posted to youtube before he got smart and pulled them down.
Ahhh, here they are. http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=3cd_1380579664
As you can see "Two Wheels Good, Four Wheels Bad." Oooopppsss, sorry, channeled George Orwell there for a minute. The Cyclists don't seem to think that those pesky traffic laws apply to them, only those in "cages". Given their high level of demonstrated asshattery (and disregard for traffic safety), I would guess that Mr Lien somehow offended them by being on the same road.
I will make one final point as a take away from this incident. Keep moving, mobility is your friend. Reverse can be pretty good gear choice, when forward is now longer an option.
-
Keep moving, mobility is your friend
Indeed. You're a lot harder to hurt when you're moving at 55mph than 0, even though your vehicle cannot match the acceleration or maneuverability of a sportsbike.
Reverse can be pretty good gear choice, when forward is now longer an option.
Especially since the bikes behind you blocking you in can't go into reverse (since most bikes don't have reverse gear) you've got a chance of getting more of the *expletive deleted*ers plus the bikes to the side and front of you are going to take some time to get turned around (and they are all in each other's way when trying to get turned around, too).
Cut a J-turn and go back from whence you came...then see about crossing over a grass median or finding one of the emergency vehicle cut-throughs.
I also took away that maybe a lift kit isn't a suburb redneck wet dream anymore...you don't want to get hung up on obstacles such as a motorcycle/rider that you just went Big Foot on.
And if you are forced out of your vehicle bring some pain with you for your antagonists.
And for God's Sake channel your inner Genghis Khan if you're ever attacked.
-
I also took away that maybe a lift kit isn't a suburb redneck wet dream anymore...
Hehe. A friend of mine recently put together a .300blk pistol for car carry. That doesn't seem too over the top anymore.
-
An F-350 is looking better all the time :lol:
-
The poor paralyzed biker is "a habitual offender" and hasn't had a DL since 1999.
http://billingsgazette.com/news/national/ny-suv-driver-s-wife-we-were-in-grave-danger/article_e7dc6fba-5811-5ede-8c2c-de79d010775c.html
-
But, but, but....he was just turning his life around. All those bikers were one their way to the pet shelter, after singing hymns with orphans.
-
that moron biker got crunched in new york? the good boy? is a habitual offender no license since 1999. father of the year
*expletive deleted*ck him
http://www.heavy.com/news/2013/10/jeremiah-edwin-mieses-jay-meezee-road-rage-video/
-
An F-350 is looking better all the time :lol:
Or =D a sportsmobile 4x4 conversion on a E350 van-
-
An F-350 is looking better all the time :lol:
Should do the trick
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fen.academic.ru%2Fpictures%2Fenwiki%2F65%2FArw45.jpg&hash=b484cae720a7fbde39fca3dc0038dd687fd41b51)
-
if it were me and my family, i'd have done the same thing as the suv driver. i'm curious what the law states regarding a self defense incident like this? gun laws are fairly clear about how and when defensive shootings may occur, but i've never read anything regarding vehicular uses of force. i'm surprised there is no whining from the anti "stand your ground" contingent. perhaps they will bring in some prosecuters from florida to make the charges (against the suv driver) in another week or so.
I respectfully disagree. "Gun" laws do not say anything about defensive shootings. The laws that apply to defensive use of a firearm are general laws that address the use of deadly (or "lethal," in some states) force for self defense. The nature of the deadly force (firearm, knife, sword, bludgeon, or automobile) is not mentioned in these laws. They address only the circumstances under which an individual may use deadly force to defend himself or a third party. Generally, the criterion is that the individual must have a "reasonable" fear of incurring death or serious bodily injury from an attack. In some states, before employing deadly force the individual must first try to retreat.
IMHO, this incident clearly meets the criteria, and the driver of the SUV was justified in using his vehicle as a weapon of self defense. There was certainly a disparity of force -- he was outnumbered 30:1, and each of the motorcyclists had a ready-made blunt instrument handy in the form of his helmet.
Yeah, If I had thirty angry bikers trying to bash their way into my car, I'd be in fear for my life.
-
hawkmoon, thanks for pointing that out.
-
Any bets on how long before the first lawsuits against the SUV driver are filed?
-
that moron biker got crunched in new york? the good boy? is a habitual offender no license since 1999. father of the year
*expletive deleted* him
http://www.heavy.com/news/2013/10/jeremiah-edwin-mieses-jay-meezee-road-rage-video/
The comments section- its pretty funny.
-
Any bets on how long before the first lawsuits against the SUV driver are filed?
I've been reading around the net (not "accredited" new sources) that Edwin Mieses has hired Gloria All Red as his attorney.
-
I've been reading around the net (not "accredited" new sources) that Edwin Mieses has hired Gloria All Red as his attorney.
unfortunately most of the bikers have limited assets. i wonder if a land shark could go after parents etc. if they bought him a bike knowing he was unlicensed
-
unfortunately most of the bikers have limited assets. i wonder if a land shark could go after parents etc. if they bought him a bike knowing he was unlicensed
It's the biker's(Jeremiah Edwin Mieses') family who is said to have hired her. Will have to keep an eye out for further news on this, which I'm sure is coming.
-
It's the biker's(Jeremiah Edwin Mieses') family who is said to have hired her. Will have to keep an eye out for further news on this, which I'm sure is coming.
Unless Mieses is black, he hasn't got a case.
-
Unless Mieses is black, he hasn't got a case.
Funny you should mention that...
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi163.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ft286%2FSergeant_Bob%2Fmeises-1.jpg&hash=05e953ea7f8b9a990b640ee92192a7be49f837f0) (http://s163.photobucket.com/user/Sergeant_Bob/media/meises-1.jpg.html)
-
Funny you should mention that...
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi163.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ft286%2FSergeant_Bob%2Fmeises-1.jpg&hash=05e953ea7f8b9a990b640ee92192a7be49f837f0) (http://s163.photobucket.com/user/Sergeant_Bob/media/meises-1.jpg.html)
not black
sorry
-
He looks a little bit like the actor D.B. Sweeney. :lol:
And the victim Lien: Chinese ???
-
not black
sorry
Says you.
-
Says you.
Says his birth certificate
Do a lil research on the Dominican Republic and try again. I don't care if they all look alike to you
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
-
“It’s always a few people who give us all a bad name.”
Says a Hells Angels member. :rofl:
Hells Angels rip biker’s highway beatdown
http://nypost.com/2013/10/04/hells-angels-rip-biker-gangs-west-side-highway-beatdown/
bob
-
Says his birth certificate
Do a lil research on the Dominican Republic and try again. I don't care if they all look alike to you
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Oh please, don't even try to play that crap on me. ;/
I didn't realize their were no blacks in the D.R.
Isn't this the part where you bombard the forum with tons of links in order to raise your post count?
-
Oh please, don't even try to play that crap on me. ;/
I didn't realize their were no blacks in the D.R.
Isn't this the part where you bombard the forum with tons of links in order to raise your post count?
It's easier. I lived there a lil more than a year
But I am open to your views and experience
You can also go to the "justice for Jazee meezee " and check out her family
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
-
Or =D a sportsmobile 4x4 conversion on a E350 van-
Go big or go home.
http://www.pinzgauer.com/shpics.php?table=vehicles&idnum=114
Similar fuel economy, and a top hatch for your gunner:
http://www.pinzgauer.com/shpics.php?table=vehicles&idnum=27
-
Says a Hells Angels member. :rofl:
http://nypost.com/2013/10/04/hells-angels-rip-biker-gangs-west-side-highway-beatdown/
bob
:rofl: :rofl:
That's like Putin taking the opportunity to chastise Obama on human rights violations. Full of win.
But the guy is right though, the 1%ers in my area aren't going to get involved with petty crime like beating motorists, they prefer raketeering and drug trafficking.
-
Unless Mieses is black, he hasn't got a case.
I was mistaken about his race but not because I think "they all look alike".
-
From a FB "biker support page," in reference to the paralyzed biker:
This kids life is over. Why? To teach him not to be rowdy? Sick people. He is only 28, still learning to be a man, you all want to cut his life short, cheering for the driver of the suv.
Still learning to be a man? Good God almighty. :facepalm:
-
Cops were involved-riding with the group of bikers
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/celebrity-lawyer-gloria-allred-represents-biker-injured-suv-driver-attacked-upper-manhattan-article-1.1476093
-
From a FB "biker support page," in reference to the paralyzed biker:
Still learning to be a man? Good God almighty. :facepalm:
Society these days is big on complete avoidance of personal responsibility. It wasn't HIS FAULT he joined a mob. It wasn't HIS FAULT he placed himself in front of an SUV that escaped the mob. It wasn't HIS FAULT that he was riding with a bunch of thugs.
Cops were involved-riding with the group of bikers
Well damn their cover is blown now. If you have ever read the book "Under and Alone" by ATF agent Bill McQueen about his 2 years undercover with the Mongols MC he talks about agonizing over handling situations where he would have faced the dilemma of stopping an assault on someone (and not only blowing his cover but facing off alone against dozens of bikers who would be out for his blood) or letting the assault happen. A couple of times it came nearly to that point (including one point where he had to fake beating the *expletive deleted*it out of a guy in order to get the victim away from a group of pissed off Mongols who were going to beat the guy to death). Fascinating book and excellent look into the outlaw MC world.
-
From a FB "biker support page," in reference to the paralyzed biker:
Still learning to be a man? Good God almighty. :facepalm:
He's just a real slow learner. :lol:
-
How in the WTFO can the family afford someone like Gloria Allred as their scum sucking, tile crawling representative? Wait, I know, she is going to do it Pro Bono because she believes in the young man and his devastated family. [barf]
I read that linked article from the daily news and almost [barf] myself. What a load of horse crap. I can only hope the guy run over isn't so slow that he didn't learn not to stand in front of a 5000 lb SUV when it starts to go forward. But, you never know with these guys that are still learning. ;)
bob
-
How in the WTFO can the family afford someone like Gloria Allred as their scum sucking, tile crawling representative? Wait, I know, she is going to do it Pro Bono because she believes in the young man and his devastated family. [barf]
I read that linked article from the daily news and almost [barf] myself. What a load of horse crap. I can only hope the guy run over isn't so slow that he didn't learn not to stand in front of a 5000 lb SUV when it starts to go forward. But, you never know with these guys that are still learning. ;)
bob
the harridan gets a percentage
-
This kids life is over. Why? To teach him not to be rowdy? Sick people. He is only 28, still learning to be a man, you all want to cut his life short, cheering for the driver of the suv.
Lesson one-
What happens when you are an ahole and put someone and their family at risk.
-
Cops were involved-riding with the group of bikers
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/celebrity-lawyer-gloria-allred-represents-biker-injured-suv-driver-attacked-upper-manhattan-article-1.1476093
Per the article I read the undercover officer that was outed was not undercover in the course of an investigation with this group, he was a member as are several other officers.
I presume shortly such membership will be verboten as police cannot be associated with people actively and repeatedly violating the law even on their "own time.".
-
As I recall from my Ayoob, the law on self-defense against groups generally says that if an individual in the group isn't making themselves scarce immediately on the commencement of hostilities by their group mates, they are a legitimate target. The defender isn't required to decide who is merely along for the ride and who is driving (so to speak).
The family claims Mieses was trying to get the others to stop when the driver decided safety required him to go, which is tough for Mieses but he chose to break the law by riding at all, much less riding with thugs.
-
Per the article I read the undercover officer that was outed was not undercover in the course of an investigation with this group, he was a member as are several other officers.
I presume shortly such membership will be verboten as police cannot be associated with people actively and repeatedly violating the law even on their "own time.".
Why not - they do it on the job ? ;/
-
Why not - they do it on the job ? ;/
My thoughts, exactly.
bob
-
Why not - they do it on the job ?
The union is a completely different gang.
-
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcf.geekdo-images.com%2Fimages%2Fpic468483_md.jpg&hash=394fb5bf0cc9c8f9130e59a37b37dc9a33204132)
So it's not an SUV...
-
So we have another thread talking about surplus MRAP's. Is that only for cops or are they going to DRMO auction...........
-
"He ain't much of a truck driver, either. He just ran over a bunch of motorcycles out in the parking lot."
-
http://investigations.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10/08/20870446-undercover-cop-seen-on-video-attacking-suv?chromedomain=insidedateline
Evidently undercover cop is actually one of the ones to start smashing on the SUV and broke out one of its windows.
Really.
But, CSD will be along soon to explain why that's okay. It's hard being a cop. Sob. Sob. Sniffle.
-
http://investigations.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10/08/20870446-undercover-cop-seen-on-video-attacking-suv?chromedomain=insidedateline
Evidently undercover cop is actually one of the ones to start smashing on the SUV and broke out one of its windows.
Really.
But, CSD will be along soon to explain why that's okay. It's hard being a cop. Sob. Sob. Sniffle.
gonna disappoint you
now we know why he waited for days to speak up and has lawyer-ed up . still not spoken to investigaters too.
his union will defend him though and probably sucessfully
-
likely he was just trying to demonstrate what would happen if the window broke, you know, so the people inside could properly prepare themselves for flying glass shards. [sarcasm off] ;/
-
likely he was just trying to demonstrate what would happen if the window broke, you know, so the people inside could properly prepare themselves for flying glass shards. [sarcasm off] ;/
Was probably joining in to maintain his "cover" :angel:
Good thing it wasn't a gang rape ;/
-
The question in my mind is did his actions incite the overall situation? If so, then he is an accessory to the assault and battery. It shouldn't matter that he left.
How many cops does NYPD have running around playing criminal?
-
The question in my mind is did his actions incite the overall situation? If so, then he is an accessory to the assault and battery. It shouldn't matter that he left.
How many cops does NYPD have running around playing criminal?
Trick question, no fair.
-
Trick question, no fair.
not too tricky
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/undercover-lied-role-biker-beatdown-suv-driver-source-article-1.1479369
-
Well too bad the detective wasn't the one run over and paralyzed...
-
How many cops does NYPD have running around playing criminal?
All of them!
What do I win?
-
You know, sometimes I worry about my choice of a five-shot car gun.
Then I think about how unlikely people are to volunteer to be the second example of what magnum #4 buckshot loads at contact distance will do to a human head.
And yes, I can get it from the back floorboard to muzzle-against-either-front-window faster than I can start the car.
-
All of them!
What do I win?
the trick question to which i referred
-
You know, sometimes I worry about my choice of a five-shot car gun.
Then I think about how unlikely people are to volunteer to be the second example of what magnum #4 buckshot loads at contact distance will do to a human head.
And yes, I can get it from the back floorboard to muzzle-against-either-front-window faster than I can start the car.
I started keeping a longgun in the truck about 6 years ago. I don't *expletive deleted*ck around when it comes to "bring firepower, and plenty of it". When you pull out a shotgun people tend to suddenly feel their self preservation urges come to life and they completely lose interest in harming you.
-
You know, sometimes I worry about my choice of a five-shot car gun.
Then I think about how unlikely people are to volunteer to be the second example of what magnum #4 buckshot loads at contact distance will do to a human head.
And yes, I can get it from the back floorboard to muzzle-against-either-front-window faster than I can start the car.
I kinda feel the same way. I just need to get a truck gun of some type. Maybe a basic Mossberg shotgun with a side-saddle or similar.
But while I agree that the logical thought process would be "hey, my buddy just got his head blowed off! maybe I wanna think about un-arsing the area....." The pursuit mentality does something to the brain.... This story comes to mind: http://www.davehayes.org/2006/02/10/the-gary-fadden-incident
-
They need to make a nice coach gun with a synthetic stock. Like the Stoeger Double Defense.
-
I kinda feel the same way. I just need to get a truck gun of some type. Maybe a basic Mossberg shotgun with a side-saddle or similar.
But while I agree that the logical thought process would be "hey, my buddy just got his head blowed off! maybe I wanna think about un-arsing the area....." The pursuit mentality does something to the brain.... This story comes to mind: http://www.davehayes.org/2006/02/10/the-gary-fadden-incident
Extra ammunition is for when they don't get the idea...
They need to make a nice coach gun with a synthetic stock. Like the Stoeger Double Defense.
Personally, the last thing I want to do when considering a defensive arm is to limit myself to two shots before a reload...
-
You know, sometimes I worry about my choice of a five-shot car gun.
I also vacillate between the psychological impact of a demonstration of the "making Ike's head into a canoe (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=co5xVHsMRV0)" concept, versus the applicability of having 15+ rounds.
I don't want to have something actually valuable as a "truck gun" so the AR is out. And doing 3/4 of my travel on a motorcycle nowadays, more often than not even a cheap shotgun or thuddythuddy isn't an option. Just regular CCW. Though next bike is gonna have a secure storage compartment that will end up holding a couple extra mags.
-
Extra ammunition is for when they don't get the idea...
Oh, I wholeheartedly agree. My defensive handguns, I have at least 15 rounds on me. More often 25. But this is the one thing I don't like about single-stack magazines. But dangit, I like my 1911...
I'm honestly thinking that my short Mosin-Nagant with several stripper clips may do ok for a truck gun. Slow to reload, but definitely not underpowered, and to be blunt, that side folding bayonet is there for a reason.
-
Oh, I wholeheartedly agree. My defensive handguns, I have at least 15 rounds on me. More often 25. But this is the one thing I don't like about single-stack magazines. But dangit, I like my 1911...
I'm honestly thinking that my short Mosin-Nagant with several stripper clips may do ok for a truck gun. Slow to reload, but definitely not underpowered, and to be blunt, that side folding bayonet is there for a reason.
what I also do is keep several additional magazines in the center console for my pistol so that if I am having to use that without getting a chance to employ the favored longgun I've got plenty of ammunition on tap.
I figure that if I am out of my vehicle and in a store then the threat is likely to be handled by the two spare mags I carry on body but if I am being assaulted in/at my vehicle by a mob/riot/whatever then I've got plenty of rounds on hand to dole out as early Christmas presents...
And should I run out of the ammunition in the vehicle then I've got the vehicle itself, ax, kuhkri, tomahawk, fire extinguisher, crowbar (I LOVE me a good crowbar), etc to settle accounts personally.
-
how illegal are those car mounted flames throwers like they have in south africa
-
Very.
Can of bear spray would be fun, only problem is keeping it outside.
Car bag is 3 30rd glock mags and a 17rd.
-
....
Can of bear spray would be fun, only problem is keeping it outside.
....
Why?
I've kept mine in the cup holder through the summer with no problems.
I do replace it every year just in case the heat may have deteriorated the potency, but that's paranoia on my part.
And yes, I do think - often - of rolling up next to that idiot with the hyper-bass speakers. So far I have managed to restrain my urge.
Pro tip - make sure your windows are rolled down before deploying pepper spray from your vehicle. Brought to you by a NRA-certified instructor who demonstrated to an entire class why that is necessary.
stay safe.
-
I acquired a Keltec sub2000 not to long ago in 40 cal. That and a handful of 22 round mags fits in a normal looking duffle real easy. That might be a good cheap option if they become available. It has enough accuracy at distance I think, even if it isn't a tack driver.
-
5shot revolver is backed up with tomahawk/entrenching shovel within arms reach, SKS or AR-15 in trunk, depending on vehicle.
I work in a marginally bad neighborhood (did I mention there was a mugging/rape yesterday right outside? The police also found an unrelated corpse nearby while investigating) surrounded by miles of ghetto in most directions.
-
The detective involved in the motorcycle gang's assault on the SUV and its occupants has been arrested, and is facing charges of riot and criminal mischief:
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/6th-arrest-made-nyc-motorcycle-suv-assault-case-20512916
MAYBE we'll see justice done, and the perp-with-a-badge will do some time? Or, at the very least, acquire a record that makes him ineligible to be an LEO in the future?
-
The detective involved in the motorcycle gang's assault on the SUV and its occupants has been arrested, and is facing charges of riot and criminal mischief:
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/6th-arrest-made-nyc-motorcycle-suv-assault-case-20512916
MAYBE we'll see justice done, and the perp-with-a-badge will do some time? Or, at the very least, acquire a record that makes him ineligible to be an LEO in the future?
I doubt it. The union lawyers will weasel it to a downgraded charge and he'll probably get his pension. They might pitch the "stress of undercover work" and go for the hat trick of him resigning and getting disability . They'll hide it by getting some kinda initial ruling that seems close to appropriate but then 6 months a year later they appeal run it past the union arbitrator and voila. Color me cynical
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
-
Why?
I've kept mine in the cup holder through the summer with no problems.
I do replace it every year just in case the heat may have deteriorated the potency, but that's paranoia on my part.
And yes, I do think - often - of rolling up next to that idiot with the hyper-bass speakers. So far I have managed to restrain my urge.
Pro tip - make sure your windows are rolled down before deploying pepper spray from your vehicle. Brought to you by a NRA-certified instructor who demonstrated to an entire class why that is necessary.
stay safe.
Believe he's talking about the wind driving some of the pepper spray back to you
While pepper spray is the gift that keeps on giving for a little while, I prefer better options. Pepper spray is best reserved for that bum that won't leave you alone at the gas pump after you've told him you don't have any change.
-
I also vacillate between the psychological impact of a demonstration of the "making Ike's head into a canoe (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=co5xVHsMRV0)" concept, versus the applicability of having 15+ rounds.
Best scene in the movie!
-
I kinda feel the same way. I just need to get a truck gun of some type. Maybe a basic Mossberg shotgun with a side-saddle or similar.
But while I agree that the logical thought process would be "hey, my buddy just got his head blowed off! maybe I wanna think about un-arsing the area....." The pursuit mentality does something to the brain.... This story comes to mind: http://www.davehayes.org/2006/02/10/the-gary-fadden-incident
I will note something for you in that article. The first attacker ignored the lethal threat to his life.
After he was killed, the other attackers certainly had a lot of bravado, but decided to remain in the safety of their vehicle and no longer point guns at Mr. Fadden.
The "My buddy just got his head blown off!" does seem to work. The threat of that may not until they actually see someone go down, though.
-
mak, that's true. Personally, I would think the 9 round full auto burst into the air would have grabbed his attention, but apparently he *still* thought the target was weak. Until he caught 6 rounds to the center of mass.
-
And yes, I do think - often - of rolling up next to that idiot with the hyper-bass speakers. So far I have managed to restrain my urge.
Less violent: http://www.amazon.com/Shomer-Tec-Special-Ingredients-Pump-A-Dump-Putricant/dp/B00ABV7WEU
-
Oh, I wholeheartedly agree. My defensive handguns, I have at least 15 rounds on me. More often 25. But this is the one thing I don't like about single-stack magazines. But dangit, I like my 1911...
I agree.
That's why I own a couple of Para-Ordnance double stackers. 1911 manual of arms, 14+1 capacity. Completely reliable.
Luv 'em.
-
I also vacillate between the psychological impact of a demonstration of the "making Ike's head into a canoe (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=co5xVHsMRV0)" concept, versus the applicability of having 15+ rounds.
I don't want to have something actually valuable as a "truck gun" so the AR is out. And doing 3/4 of my travel on a motorcycle nowadays, more often than not even a cheap shotgun or thuddythuddy isn't an option. Just regular CCW. Though next bike is gonna have a secure storage compartment that will end up holding a couple extra mags.
After watching a big grizzly roam around my campground at night in Wyoming, I considered getting a 18" coach gun with slugs- it would break down very short and be easy to pack on a bike. A .357 just seemed toylike... A kel tec sub2000 or an ak underfolder also use very little space...
-
After watching a big grizzly roam around my campground at night in Wyoming, I considered getting a 18" coach gun with slugs- it would break down very short and be easy to pack on a bike. A .357 just seemed toylike... A kel tec sub2000 or an ak underfolder also use very little space...
With a griz, you're probably not going to get more than two shots off anyway.
-
With a griz, you're probably not going to get more than two shots off anyway.
That was my thinking also.
-
Anyone make an 18" (i.e. 18.5") side-by-side? All of Stoeger's offerings seem to be 20".
-
Anyone make an 18" (i.e. 18.5") side-by-side? All of Stoeger's offerings seem to be 20".
Here you go! Side by side.
http://www.impactguns.com/kel-tec-ksg-12-ga-18in-barrel-shotgun-ksg.aspx
=D
-
Here you go! Side by side.
http://www.impactguns.com/kel-tec-ksg-12-ga-18in-barrel-shotgun-ksg.aspx
=D
Iz vaporware. ;)
Maybe I'll be able to get one in 10 years.
-
Find an old but solid sxs and apply a hacksaw. Bonus points if the barrels are dented . The shows always have a bunch of them. No bonus points for cutting the barrels on a H and H or Purdey....... =D
-
Anyone make an 18" (i.e. 18.5") side-by-side? All of Stoeger's offerings seem to be 20".
1.5" is hardly going to be noticeable.
http://www.stoegerindustries.com/firearms/stoeger-double-defense.php (http://www.stoegerindustries.com/firearms/stoeger-double-defense.php)
-
1.5" is hardly going to be noticeable.
http://www.stoegerindustries.com/firearms/stoeger-double-defense.php (http://www.stoegerindustries.com/firearms/stoeger-double-defense.php)
Unless you're trying to stuff a 20" barrel into an 18" wide motorcycle bag.
-
The thing about a sxs- the action is super short, with the barrels off, it is very close to the -18" length.
So it will stow beside the barrels easily. Nice thing to have, tenting in bear country.
-
SBS ftw
-
Saw today the prosecutor is dropping all charges. Gave some BS reason. I'm thinking he can't justify hanging some of the bikers but not the cop.
-
Saw today the prosecutor is dropping all charges. Gave some BS reason. I'm thinking he can't justify hanging some of the bikers but not the cop.
All charges dropped? Against everyone? ???
Can you provide a link to the story?
-
If that's the case it will likely open the driver to civil action from the run down scumbag. :mad:
-
All charges dropped? Against everyone? ???
Can you provide a link to the story?
Saw today the prosecutor is dropping all charges. Gave some BS reason. I'm thinking he can't justify hanging some of the bikers but not the cop.
I sure would like to read about it too. I checked Drudge and found nothing about it.
-
http://nypost.com/2013/10/02/da-wont-charge-bike-assault-thug-in-suv-beating/
Not the article I read earlier., But the same source.
-
:facepalm:
-
That is not ok.
-
Gutless wonder.
-
And the sad thing is that everyone involved knows the NYPD officers who were involved, or watched as bystanders/riders in the biker pack are expletive-birds...
The politics of it is probably the union and other factions of the NYPD and NYC government making threats with whatever cards they've got to play not because they care about, or like these guys, it's just the typical old fear of "give an inch, and they'll take a mile" reflexive turf protection.
-
i read it as charges against one guy dropped. wonder who he dimed for that
damn phone
-
http://nypost.com/2013/10/02/da-wont-charge-bike-assault-thug-in-suv-beating/
Not the article I read earlier., But the same source.
Sounds like the D.A. is just being cautious and trying to get more evidence so the case doesn't fall apart in court. (giving the benefit of a doubt)
-
i
http://nypost.com/2013/10/02/da-wont-charge-bike-assault-thug-in-suv-beating/
Not the article I read earlier., But the same source.
i read it as the biker who tapped on the rear window (the PO) had his charges dropped, and the DA wants more time for building a case against cruz.
-
My guess is that the investigation is showing that a lot MORE police officers were involved, and the DA doesn't want to take on the PD.
-
Things like that happen in a "gun free" city. You would never see this in Texas. A pic of the bikers arrested show they were all black. You don't see that info in the press. The driver did a stupid by getting off the freeway. A case of bumper car driving should have applied here. Now, the bikers are sueing the driver. Go figure.......only in NY......chris3
-
Things like that happen in a "gun free" city. You would never see this in Texas. A pic of the bikers arrested show they were all black. You don't see that info in the press. The driver did a stupid by getting off the freeway. A case of bumper car driving should have applied here. Now, the bikers are sueing the driver. Go figure.......only in NY......chris3
Not the they were all black noise. ..... Again?
You think the undercover with the polish name was black? Or do they just all look alike? Or did you mean they all wore black jackets?
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
-
It may be noise, but it is not your run of the mill random noise- check the FBI crime stats.
-
It may be noise, but it is not your run of the mill random noise- check the FBI crime stats.
No? In this case noise is a kind way to describe a statement that clearly ignores the reality.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
-
It may be noise, but it is not your run of the mill random noise- check the FBI crime stats.
Pretty significant difference between the disparity in criminality between whites and blacks nationally, and specific claims about the races of specific people involved in a specific incident.