Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: Waitone on April 19, 2011, 05:39:46 PM
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Looks like bATFE is prepping the ground for an opening move on shotguns. From what I've read so far it appears they have gone back to the assault-weapons-ban playbook and pulled the plays related to cosmetics, it is evil because it looks evil. Based on how the gun (shotgun in this case) looks, it can not possibly be used for sporting purposes.
Here is a bATFE sponsored study on the topic
http://go.redirectingat.com/?id=2563X600813&xs=1&url=http%3A%2F%2Fatf.gov%2Fpublications%2Ffirearms%2F012611-study-on-importality-of-certain-shotguns.pdf&sref=http%3A%2F%2Fberegondsbar.com%2Fbanning-guns-by-changing-definitions-part-3-2%2F
And here is a blog in four part who has analyzed the report
http://landmarkreport.com/treynolds/2011/04/banning-guns-by-changing-definitions-part-1/
http://landmarkreport.com/treynolds/2011/04/banning-guns-by-changing-definitions-part-2/
http://landmarkreport.com/treynolds/2011/04/banning-guns-by-changing-definitions-part-3/
http://landmarkreport.com/treynolds/2011/04/banning-guns-by-changing-definitions-part-4/
My preliminary assessment is the Obama administration figures it is easier to initiate actions against the second amendment by playing with definitions which is consistent with past tactics on other issues. Plenty of time later for the involvement of international bodies.
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Sounds like a good way to jump-start a lawsuit challenging the constitutionality of the "sporting purposes" clause.
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Wow.
USPSA is not a "sport?" IPSC is not a "sport?" GSSF is not a "sport?" Threegun is not a "sport?"
Looking to go after those 140/170mm handgun magazines at some point, it seems. And the AR/M14/et cetera mags. Effers.
The only good "non-sporting" shotgun they want to ban is the Saiga 12, as far as I can tell. The Mossies and Remmies are built here, as is the KelTec KSG. Are Beretta/Benelli "non-sporting" shotguns considered any good in the land of threegunnery?
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Screw the lawsuit, this is properly a job for Congress. They made the mess and now that they know it is arguably unCon they need to fix it.
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Sounds like a good way to jump-start a lawsuit challenging the constitutionality of the "sporting purposes" clause.
+1 Exactly. Self-defense and defense against tyranny are not sports.
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1/26/11 is when that report came out. No action has been taken, nor has any been planned that I'm aware of. I'll stay out of the fear-mongering, personally...
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The only good "non-sporting" shotgun they want to ban is the Saiga 12, as far as I can tell.
I like busting clays with a barely-over-minimum length riot gun, and I'd love to have a Saiga to do the same with. It's a little more fast-paced than using the Mossy 835 that forces me to wait until they're way out there so I can get any spread at all.
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I could be wrong, but this falls in line a little with what the administration has been doing. Roll out proposals and studies and hope they get traction in the media or with public opinion. However, it seems the general public is a bit bored with all the "OMG, IT'S A WOLF!!" crying.
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I use these types of studies and news stories as a shopping list :)
Democrat supermajority in legislature and Obama elected (coupled with cheers from gun control groups): immediate purchase of AR lowers, A2 flash suppressors, folding stocks
Study/congressional murmurs about 5.7? Purchase! (with the extra evil 30rnd magazines of course)
Lots of negative TV press about 338LM (various "crime" tv shows where characters freak out over it's capability)? Savage 110BA Purchase!
ATF study on "non sporting shotguns? 870P purchase (Thursday, thanks for the excuse :) )
If only I was older in 1983, I would have stocked up on M16's...would have beaten the DJIA by a significant amount! (M16 in 1983, $2-2.5 or less, now $16k+, or a 6.5-8+% annualized return) (before anyone does the comparison, it beating DJIA is due to capital gains taxes on the stocks, and not on the guns for a private seller). Hell, 5.56 ammo has gone up 50% in less than 4 years (9-10% annual gains).
I laughed when one of my interns suggested firearms (as long as you keep them in good shape) and ammo (provided you don't shoot it all, I use a shoot 2, buy 4 strategy as a hedge to levelize my ammo costs) as "investments"...until I did the math. Then I started buying. While I don't see major regulations that would yield the effects of the 1984 law, there is truth in the fact it is virtually impossible to get minor regulations repealed, so with a steadily increasing population, and every year fewer suppliers, prices will trend upwards.
I also laughed at my cousin buying gold 4 years ago...wish I would have listened, he's made 150% return already. (that being said, don't buy gold now, unless you are betting on total collapse, above $1000/oz, even played out mines can be profitable, they just take a few years to start up, so I think it will settle back down, same with silver (though, silver has a little to go, but insufficient in my mind to make up for opportunity cost and buy/sell fees)
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The waffen BATFEces has always twisted, turned, folded, spindled and mutilated "sporting purposes" to suit their justification for making defacto bans on guns they don't like. Obama is using these thugs for his end run around gun rights.
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The regime isn't able to legislate any anti-gun laws and hasn't had much luck with regulation lately either but they'll keep plugging away until they can sneak something in when nobody's looking. It's our job to keep looking.
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So, if I shoot a rabbit, bird, or squirrel with a non-sporting purposes shotgun, and it kills it just as dead as a sporting purposes shotgun, then that would show that efficacy is not in question.
If I weigh a number of non-sporting purposes shotguns and sporting purposes shotguns, and find that the distribution of weights is not statistically different, then weight is not a question. Even if the non-sporting purposes gun is heavier, this is actually a potential benefit as it slows the recoil impulse, allowing for softer felt recoil and less shock to the users bone and joint structure. This would be preferable to individuals who have suffered shoulder or back injuries and still wish to hunt.
If I measure length, I find that generally, non-sporting purposes shotguns are typically shorter, and thus easier to navigate through heavy brush. In addition, the shorter gun should be quicker to point than a longer barrelled gun due to weight distribution and rotational inertia. So the non-sporting purpose shotgun is again preferable.
So it looks like scientific evidence, i.e. truth, should indicate that non-sporting purpose shotguns are better suited to sporting than sporting purpose shotguns. Taking this to court would be easy.
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What - shooting burglars isn't a sport ???
=D
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What - shooting burglars isn't a sport ???
=D
No *expletive deleted*it. I live close enough to Houston that post-hurricane-looting is a concern. I'd certainly rather have my 7+1 mossberg ready than some damn SxS if the street is full of hoodlums.
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So it looks like scientific evidence, i.e. truth, should indicate that non-sporting purpose shotguns are better suited to sporting than sporting purpose shotguns. Taking this to court would be easy.
This has long been my argument in favor of "tactical" knives; good quality ones are more ergonomic, more durable, and generally more effective at common cutting tasks than many less "evil" pocketknives.