Author Topic: Two NYPD Cops Killed in Ambush  (Read 11710 times)

Balog

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Re: Two NYPD Cops Killed in Ambush
« Reply #25 on: December 22, 2014, 01:51:15 PM »
I'm all for not trusting the cops, but the truly bad incidents (Habersham County GA killing pastors and blowing up babies, Spokane WA beating a retarded guy to death and covering it up etc) don't get press while violent thugs who died attacking cops like Mike Brown do. It's an odd situation to agree with the basic premise (cops murder people all the time and are not held accountable) but vehemently disagree with the examples used to push that point forward.

Oh and Mak, if you're referring to Tamir Rice with the "12 year old boy" thing, he was almost as tall as I am and pointed an exact, indistinguishable from the real thing air pistol at the cops who rolled up on him. I'm pretty well established as not caring for the American LEO institutionally, but that was as clean of a shoot as you could hope for.

I doubt most of the protesters are ready or willing to do violence. I think if anything serious starts happening it'll be the usual black bloc "anarchist" morons who are just glomming on to whatever they can as an excuse to do violence. This chick seems like a good example of that.

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brimic

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Re: Two NYPD Cops Killed in Ambush
« Reply #26 on: December 22, 2014, 02:17:53 PM »
Quote
I'm all for not trusting the cops, but the truly bad incidents (Habersham County GA killing pastors and blowing up babies, Spokane WA beating a retarded guy to death and covering it up etc) don't get press while violent thugs who died attacking cops like Mike Brown do. It's an odd situation to agree with the basic premise (cops murder people all the time and are not held accountable) but vehemently disagree with the examples used to push that point forward.

Yes. Locally all of the attention has been on the shooting of a mentally ill (black) homeless guy by a police officer (Dantre Hamilton). The part where the homeless guy got a hold of the officer's baton and struck him during the struggle is largely dismissed by the news media. The 'harmless homeless guy' talking point means nothing to me either- over the last few years, there have been muggings, stabbings, rapes, and murders committed by 'harmless homeless guys.'
If you looked into the local news, every day there is another shooting, murder, or 'co-sleeping' death in the black neighborhoods of the city, yet not a peep from the local agitators about these 'black deaths.'
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Balog

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Re: Two NYPD Cops Killed in Ambush
« Reply #27 on: December 22, 2014, 02:29:32 PM »
If black lives matter as much as the protesters say, they'd be doing something about the black on black gang violence in Chicago. Literally hundreds of murders a year.
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makattak

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Re: Two NYPD Cops Killed in Ambush
« Reply #28 on: December 22, 2014, 02:34:53 PM »
Oh and Mak, if you're referring to Tamir Rice with the "12 year old boy" thing, he was almost as tall as I am and pointed an exact, indistinguishable from the real thing air pistol at the cops who rolled up on him. I'm pretty well established as not caring for the American LEO institutionally, but that was as clean of a shoot as you could hope for.

I was. Not to worry, I got PMs with the longer video I hadn't seen. It certainly looks like it was terminal stupidity on the part of the boy.  

However, I will stand by the idea that it still would have been a better case to get behind than either of the two who resisted arrest, even given the stupidity. (Though not as clear as I had thought.)

As a replacement example, the poor toddler with his face burned off in Georgia is one that OUGHT to have people up in arms.
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SADShooter

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Re: Two NYPD Cops Killed in Ambush
« Reply #29 on: December 22, 2014, 02:48:11 PM »
Chicago YTD (12/14) has seen 439 homicides. 328 of the victims were black. Of these, 96 attackers were (identified as) black. Deaths attributed to police is 16. (Quick scan of unverified sourcing after web search.)

Inference: At least 6 times more blacks killed by blacks in one city in one year than killed by police.

http://heyjackass.com/category/2014-chicago-crime-murder-stats/

Want to protest police abuse? Knock yourself out. Want to make any effort to address the real underlying issues? No, that would be racist.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2014, 02:51:19 PM by SADShooter »
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Balog

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Re: Two NYPD Cops Killed in Ambush
« Reply #30 on: December 22, 2014, 03:04:40 PM »
As a replacement example, the poor toddler with his face burned off in Georgia is one that OUGHT to have people up in arms.

This is absolutely correct, and I could not agree more.
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brimic

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Re: Two NYPD Cops Killed in Ambush
« Reply #31 on: December 22, 2014, 03:09:29 PM »
This is absolutely correct, and I could not agree more.

He didn't come from a victim class, therefor no protest.
But yes, I'd love 5 minutes alone with that police chief to remove that smirk off his face.
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Re: Two NYPD Cops Killed in Ambush
« Reply #32 on: December 22, 2014, 05:14:37 PM »
We can talk about the "victim class", the right or wrong race, where the most crime is committed etc......All day long. The mistrust of police is the root problem. It will only get worse.
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Re: Two NYPD Cops Killed in Ambush
« Reply #33 on: December 22, 2014, 07:12:02 PM »
I had a discussion about this with a somewhat racially biased friend when Ferguson first went down.

I agree: the facts of the case (as they've been presented) show no wrongdoing by police. However... there has been so much misconduct by police, that the facts really no longer matter.

Mistaken no-knock raids. Civil forfeiture. Special treatment under the law (like exemptions from many gun laws). Outright criminal behavior, with no repercussions. That's all been going on for awhile... and it makes for a powderkeg. Things like Ferguson, whether right or wrong, help provide spark

Doesn't help when race baiters (looking at you, Sharpton and Jackson) are busily striking matches for all they're worth. But the leg will blow, one way or another.

Given the totality of circumstances, I'm almost surprised something like what happened in New York didn't happen sooner
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Re: Two NYPD Cops Killed in Ambush
« Reply #34 on: December 22, 2014, 07:27:27 PM »
Leos ought to have the same ability to protect themselves and third parties as ordinary citizens.
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Re: Two NYPD Cops Killed in Ambush
« Reply #35 on: December 22, 2014, 07:39:32 PM »
Leos ought to have the same ability to protect themselves and third parties as ordinary citizens.

And they do. It's the, for example, excessive force incident ending up in a few paid days off instead of criminal charges filed and take it to court as would happen to third parties and ordinary citizens ( except for us it's called assault). I can list several more examples, but it would be a waste of my time.
“We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.”

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Perd Hapley

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Re: Two NYPD Cops Killed in Ambush
« Reply #36 on: December 22, 2014, 08:49:47 PM »
And they do. It's the, for example, excessive force incident ending up in a few paid days off instead of criminal charges filed and take it to court as would happen to third parties and ordinary citizens ( except for us it's called assault). I can list several more examples, but it would be a waste of my time.


I suspect that's what roo to the ster was trying to say.
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Re: Two NYPD Cops Killed in Ambush
« Reply #37 on: December 22, 2014, 10:55:06 PM »

I suspect that's what roo to the ster was trying to say.

If I read it wrong, and I have been known to do that, I sincerely apologize if I offended rooster.
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roo_ster

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Re: Two NYPD Cops Killed in Ambush
« Reply #38 on: December 23, 2014, 08:23:03 AM »
Fisrful has the right of it. 

No offense taken.  This is the internet and i may very well be an artificial intelligence playing at being a dog imitating a person. 

Also I took care to word it just..._so_ with humor aforethought.

It says what i mean plain enough but folk who bring along extra baggage might end up at a different destination.
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BReilley

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Re: Two NYPD Cops Killed in Ambush
« Reply #39 on: December 23, 2014, 10:17:11 AM »
So I have some thoughts on this one.  I'll just go in no particular order:

These guys were not your rural county sheriff's deputies, they were NYPD.  NYPD is the agency which brought you stop-and-frisk, which enforces the SAFE Act, which serves as tax collector/enforcer for some of the highest sin taxes in the country, etc. - and one of their officers just got by with not only no punishment but no charges after using a chokehold, which is expressly forbidden by department policy, which caused the death of a man accused of dodging cigarette taxes, the usual punishment for which is a fine.  The guy who recorded that killing, though?  He got extra-special attention for a couple of weeks until he, too, was arrested... for a gun "crime".  There are few clearer examples of jack-booted Stasi thuggery in the country than NYPD.
If the order ever comes to "Mr. and Mrs. America, turn in your guns", these guys will be the ones knocking on your doors.  They are part of the standing domestic army the founders warned about.
How bad does it have to get before you all start viewing these guys differently?  At what point does the murder of a police officer become self-defense against a violent oppressor?  Would it have been excusable in Poland, occupied France, Nazi Germany... Afghanistan?
http://youtu.be/KQ9w1HHRMQw

The police have chosen again and again to stand with their own, to never accept responsibility for harm or death, to take ever more aggressive actions as a matter of course rather than a last resort.  They shoot pets for kicks.  They imprison, beat, and sometimes kill people who have committed no real harm.  They accept strings-attached grants of BEARCATs and MRAPs, automatic weapons, drones.  Their unions secure back pay, benefits, reintatemement and pensions for habitually violent and corrupt cops.
It is becoming increasingly clear who they protect and who they serve.  The policeman is not your friend.  The police(as a whole) are America's biggest, best-armed, most violent gang, and people are starting to figure that out.

Options for restraining police are few and constantly diminishing.  The grand jury is supposed to provide a measure of power to the citizenry, but the process has been so completely perverted that it's now nothing more than a show.  The courts, much of whose funding comes from collections of police-issued fines, continue to affirm and uphold the increasingly aggressive policies anc tactics of police - and the few cases where police are found at fault invariably result in sentences far, far lighter than would be issued against you and I.  Often we see suspended sentences or probation rather than actual jailtime.  The lawmakers, whose power is derived exclusively from police enforcement, make mouth noises but really can do nothing meaningful.  The President proposes to use more federal money(i.e. money borrowed against our grandchildren's names) to outfit police with body cameras.  Which have "off" buttons.  The police themselves?  We know what happens to cops who break ranks and attempt to make arrests on bad cops.  They are shunned, threatened(professionally and personally), stuck on crappy shifts, fired.  Is it any shock that people see the gun as their only option?

Having said all of that, I'm sure I have to come right out and say it: I don't support or excuse these killings.  To punish one for the sins of another is wrong.  One must admit, though, that the lines of right and wrong(legal and illegal be damned) are becoming quite blurry these days with respect to the police.

I am heartened by what I see of the Oath Keepers, particularly of their actions in Ferguson.  There truly are people who believe that their job is to protect people and property and to keep the peace, and I was mightily impressed by their laughing in the face of Ferguson PD's threat to arrest them for operating without a permit.

Food for thought.  If you think I'm wrong, call me out.  Use reason.  Consider, though, that most folks here decry the trend of militarization and the lack of accountability.  Many discussions have been had on tipping points, lines in the sand, and so forth.  I really want you all to consider the fact that this is not happening to the guys from Dragnet and The Andy Griffith Show.  It's happening to NYPD.

Battle Monkey of Zardoz

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Re: Two NYPD Cops Killed in Ambush
« Reply #40 on: December 23, 2014, 10:44:13 AM »
So I have some thoughts on this one.  I'll just go in no particular order:

These guys were not your rural county sheriff's deputies, they were NYPD.  NYPD is the agency which brought you stop-and-frisk, which enforces the SAFE Act, which serves as tax collector/enforcer for some of the highest sin taxes in the country, etc. - and one of their officers just got by with not only no punishment but no charges after using a chokehold, which is expressly forbidden by department policy, which caused the death of a man accused of dodging cigarette taxes, the usual punishment for which is a fine.  The guy who recorded that killing, though?  He got extra-special attention for a couple of weeks until he, too, was arrested... for a gun "crime".  There are few clearer examples of jack-booted Stasi thuggery in the country than NYPD.
If the order ever comes to "Mr. and Mrs. America, turn in your guns", these guys will be the ones knocking on your doors.  They are part of the standing domestic army the founders warned about.
How bad does it have to get before you all start viewing these guys differently?  At what point does the murder of a police officer become self-defense against a violent oppressor?  Would it have been excusable in Poland, occupied France, Nazi Germany... Afghanistan?
http://youtu.be/KQ9w1HHRMQw

The police have chosen again and again to stand with their own, to never accept responsibility for harm or death, to take ever more aggressive actions as a matter of course rather than a last resort.  They shoot pets for kicks.  They imprison, beat, and sometimes kill people who have committed no real harm.  They accept strings-attached grants of BEARCATs and MRAPs, automatic weapons, drones.  Their unions secure back pay, benefits, reintatemement and pensions for habitually violent and corrupt cops.
It is becoming increasingly clear who they protect and who they serve.  The policeman is not your friend.  The police(as a whole) are America's biggest, best-armed, most violent gang, and people are starting to figure that out.

Options for restraining police are few and constantly diminishing.  The grand jury is supposed to provide a measure of power to the citizenry, but the process has been so completely perverted that it's now nothing more than a show.  The courts, much of whose funding comes from collections of police-issued fines, continue to affirm and uphold the increasingly aggressive policies anc tactics of police - and the few cases where police are found at fault invariably result in sentences far, far lighter than would be issued against you and I.  Often we see suspended sentences or probation rather than actual jailtime.  The lawmakers, whose power is derived exclusively from police enforcement, make mouth noises but really can do nothing meaningful.  The President proposes to use more federal money(i.e. money borrowed against our grandchildren's names) to outfit police with body cameras.  Which have "off" buttons.  The police themselves?  We know what happens to cops who break ranks and attempt to make arrests on bad cops.  They are shunned, threatened(professionally and personally), stuck on crappy shifts, fired.  Is it any shock that people see the gun as their only option?

Having said all of that, I'm sure I have to come right out and say it: I don't support or excuse these killings.  To punish one for the sins of another is wrong.  One must admit, though, that the lines of right and wrong(legal and illegal be damned) are becoming quite blurry these days with respect to the police.

I am heartened by what I see of the Oath Keepers, particularly of their actions in Ferguson.  There truly are people who believe that their job is to protect people and property and to keep the peace, and I was mightily impressed by their laughing in the face of Ferguson PD's threat to arrest them for operating without a permit.

Food for thought.  If you think I'm wrong, call me out.  Use reason.  Consider, though, that most folks here decry the trend of militarization and the lack of accountability.  Many discussions have been had on tipping points, lines in the sand, and so forth.  I really want you all to consider the fact that this is not happening to the guys from Dragnet and The Andy Griffith Show.  It's happening to NYPD.

Well said. The fuse has been lit. And LE knows it. That's why you see the media talking heads, ex NY mayors, etc trying to walk this back. Begging for folks to rally around LE. Might happen in some areas, but the truth is out. Only folks who can change this are the folks who caused this, LE.
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With the first link the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably.

KD5NRH

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Re: Two NYPD Cops Killed in Ambush
« Reply #41 on: December 23, 2014, 11:33:01 AM »
Leos ought to have the same ability to protect themselves and third parties as ordinary citizens.

And exactly the same results, adjusted only for having a duty to not retreat in certain circumstances.

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Re: Two NYPD Cops Killed in Ambush
« Reply #42 on: December 23, 2014, 12:03:28 PM »
The problem is anyone who calls to restrain, limit and rethink the role and responsibilities of the police will be painted with the anti-cop brush.

They will just associate those who rail against the 'gang in blue' and the militarization of the police with the extremists who randomly commit murder and violence against the cops.   
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BReilley

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Re: Two NYPD Cops Killed in Ambush
« Reply #43 on: December 23, 2014, 12:53:03 PM »
Only folks who can change this are the folks who caused this, LE.

But they won't.  Being a cop means never having to admit you were wrong.
http://reason.com/blog/2014/12/22/nypd-freakout-weve-become-a-wartime-poli

What they're going to do is freak the F out, become ever more paranoid and react with even more violence.  And lots of people will support them, because they strap on a vest every day, and don't they deserve to go home at the end of the day?

Police agencies are actively recruiting prior military with combat experience - young, strong men who went straight from government school to military service, who probably have not spent much, if any, time with a direct responsibility to the general public or without some sort of rigid chain of command.  People who are accustomed to using threats and aggressive force as a first option, not a last resort, who already have the attitude of an occupier, who are used to following orders and leaving the consequences to superiors("you might beat the rap, but you can't beat the ride").  The evolution of the policestate marches on.  The state of things is by design, and this completely foreseeable violence was inevitable.  I'd even say it's desired, because it gives the state further justification for the expansion of the panopticon and police powers.

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AJ Dual

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Re: Two NYPD Cops Killed in Ambush
« Reply #44 on: December 23, 2014, 04:17:56 PM »
...and the same circus is coming to Milwaukee (it actually started friday night with protesters blocking the freeway system up)...

http://fox6now.com/2014/12/22/manney-use-of-force-in-hamilton-shooting-ruled-justified-self-defense-will-not-face-charges/



Chisholm has GOT to be "the loneliest man in Wisconsin" right now.

He's hated on the right for the years long John Doe partisan witch hunt Grand Jury/Investigation that basically served as a last-ditch effort to unseat Scott Walker, and hamstring the various GOP fundraiser/political groups in the state.

Now he's hated on the Left for not adhering to the new standard of "Shooting a black man for any reason, and no matter what he's doing, is illegal" that's managed to enter the American public discourse over the course of the year.

It's actually got to be somewhat worrisome, with the majority of the political spectrum disliking you, and the threats, or even actual action, and an impossibly wide array of people who might have done it.  [tinfoil]
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brimic

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Re: Two NYPD Cops Killed in Ambush
« Reply #45 on: December 23, 2014, 04:28:24 PM »
Chisholm has GOT to be "the loneliest man in Wisconsin" right now.

He's hated on the right for the years long John Doe partisan witch hunt Grand Jury/Investigation that basically served as a last-ditch effort to unseat Scott Walker, and hamstring the various GOP fundraiser/political groups in the state.

Now he's hated on the Left for not adhering to the new standard of "Shooting a black man for any reason, and no matter what he's doing, is illegal" that's managed to enter the American public discourse over the course of the year.

It's actually got to be somewhat worrisome, with the majority of the political spectrum disliking you, and the threats, or even actual action, and an impossibly wide array of people who might have done it.  [tinfoil]

Looking back, I think he was waiting for a weather report of a couple of cold rainy days in a row in order to release the verdict. :laugh:

But yeah, I have no sympathy for him or Barrett- they are the most recent in a long line of democrats and sooner or later the chickens of their race politics have to come home to roost. They can't have both a virtual police state (city) and race pandering at the same time. Bill Blasio, as much of a turd he is at least being honest about what he thinks of his police department.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2014, 04:34:47 PM by brimic »
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Re: Two NYPD Cops Killed in Ambush
« Reply #46 on: December 23, 2014, 04:59:45 PM »
Looking back, I think he was waiting for a weather report of a couple of cold rainy days in a row in order to release the verdict. :laugh:

But yeah, I have no sympathy for him or Barrett- they are the most recent in a long line of democrats and sooner or later the chickens of their race politics have to come home to roost. They can't have both a virtual police state (city) and race pandering at the same time. Bill Blasio, as much of a turd he is at least being honest about what he thinks of his police department.

The one potential bright spot I see here is that despite Chisholm's teacher wife "crying over Act 10 and the .gov union busting", I still seriously doubt he'd have gone as hard or as far or as long with the John Doe fishing expedition against Walker and the WI GOP establishment without either marching orders from much higher up in the Lefty/Democrat food chain in D.C., or some sort of overwhelming pressure from the collective WI Democratic party.

If the pressure was more "Federal" in nature, or came from somewhere in the Obama admin, and then whatever DOJ "investigation" that comes of the shooting throws Chisholm under the bus in any way, he might leak whatever Washington pressure he got to go after Walker in retaliation.  =D
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Two NYPD Cops Killed in Ambush
« Reply #47 on: December 24, 2014, 09:35:21 PM »
The problem is anyone who calls to restrain, limit and rethink the role and responsibilities of the police will be painted with the anti-cop brush.

They will just associate those who rail against the 'gang in blue' and the militarization of the police with the extremists who randomly commit murder and violence against the cops.   


You've noticed that, too?

Those protesting the recent police killings might have chosen to focus on actual police brutality, against people of various skin colors. (Garner might pass that test; Brown clearly would not.) Instead, they chose to focus on racial issues, in a moment when accusations of racism have become a running joke, more likely to be laughed at than heeded. At the same time, they choose to keep "protesting," when it obviously does more harm (often literal harm) than good.

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Re: Two NYPD Cops Killed in Ambush
« Reply #48 on: December 28, 2014, 09:56:14 AM »
Where are the editorials from black police officers?

Why are they not in the spotlight offering their insight into both the experience of being black in America and being an inner city police officer?

Are they not stepping up or is the media ignoring them?

Just some random thoughts leading to rhetorical questions this morning.
For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity, that they may be without excuse. Because knowing God, they didn’t glorify him as God, and didn’t give thanks, but became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

Boomhauer

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Re: Two NYPD Cops Killed in Ambush
« Reply #49 on: December 28, 2014, 10:07:42 AM »
Where are the editorials from black police officers?

Why are they not in the spotlight offering their insight into both the experience of being black in America and being an inner city police officer?

Are they not stepping up or is the media ignoring them?

Just some random thoughts leading to rhetorical questions this morning.

Because like any black person that strays from The One True Path, they are Uncle Tom Race Traitors throwing in with Whitey.

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