Author Topic: Need advice on drilling into a vertical concrete pillar  (Read 2583 times)

Balog

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Need advice on drilling into a vertical concrete pillar
« on: March 12, 2014, 02:35:16 PM »
I work as a building engineer, and I need to install convex traffic mirrors for our parking garage. This requires drilling a blind hole into a vertical concrete face in order to put in an anchor. I've tried just getting up on a ladder and using a rotohammer and concrete bit, but am encountering problems. The pillar I'm drilling into is on a ramp, so the ladder is already tilted backwards. When I try to apply pressure it wants to go over. And, the hammer drill at this property is tiny so I need to apply a lot of force to make any headway. As a result, by the time it's deep enough to set the anchor it's been hogged out to the point that it's too large a diameter.

There are a few options that I can see, none of which I like much. I could set up a small scaffold to counteract the pitched floor, but that's time consuming to do multiple times, it would be in the traffic flow, and I would need to buy or rent the scaffold. I could buy or rent a larger rotohammer, but I need to do this sort of thing so seldom I don't want to sink a bunch of money from a small tools budget that's already short and that still wouldn't address the floor slope issue.

Ideally, what I'd like is to rent something like a small drill press that's made to attach to a vertical surface and drill into the concrete. Does anyone make something like this, and what is it called? Any other clever ideas?
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Re: Need advice on drilling into a vertical concrete pillar
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2014, 02:40:34 PM »
http://www.harborfreight.com/10-amp-3-in-1-1-18-in-variable-speed-sds-rotary-hammer-69274.html#.UyCpmvmSzsE

Ain't going to last too long, but from your description it doesn't have to.

You'll need a big sds to go into high strength concrete like you are describing.  Get the right tool, do the job, then have a beer in some of the time you saved.

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Re: Need advice on drilling into a vertical concrete pillar
« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2014, 02:41:47 PM »
How big are the posts?  And how big are the holes you're trying to drill?
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Re: Need advice on drilling into a vertical concrete pillar
« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2014, 02:45:14 PM »
I do not have the experience and expertise that you do, but is using a construction adhesive a workable alternative to the drill and anchor?
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Re: Need advice on drilling into a vertical concrete pillar
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2014, 02:56:41 PM »
http://www.harborfreight.com/10-amp-3-in-1-1-18-in-variable-speed-sds-rotary-hammer-69274.html#.UyCpmvmSzsE

Ain't going to last too long, but from your description it doesn't have to.

You'll need a big sds to go into high strength concrete like you are describing.  Get the right tool, do the job, then have a beer in some of the time you saved.

That's actually a pretty good drill. I have one.

Yes, you do need a good large SDS hammer drill, not the smaller ones, to do this. Also some good bits.

Quote
There are a few options that I can see, none of which I like much. I could set up a small scaffold to counteract the pitched floor, but that's time consuming to do multiple times, it would be in the traffic flow, and I would need to buy or rent the scaffold. I could buy or rent a larger rotohammer, but I need to do this sort of thing so seldom I don't want to sink a bunch of money from a small tools budget that's already short and that still wouldn't address the floor slope issue.

Do it the right way. Get the scaffolding, get an SDS hammer drill, get some good bits. Yes setting up and breaking down scaffolding is time consuming but it is far safer than trying to use a ladder on a slope like that. You think scaffolding is aggravating? An injury is going to be costly and time consuming. You can get some smaller scaffolding and just roll it to the next column, too, which helps a lot.
 
Is there any way you can work from the bed of a pickup truck and be at the height you need? That's a good platform option too.

Look, I am well familar with working with a short budget. My agency squeezes every penny until it screams. But there are times when you have to say "*expletive deleted*ck it I need this *expletive deleted*it to do the job safely if you want it done" and explain why (safety, speed, cost savings compared to doing it the hard/stupid way, etc) and push until you get your way.

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Balog

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Re: Need advice on drilling into a vertical concrete pillar
« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2014, 03:04:04 PM »
How big are the posts?  And how big are the holes you're trying to drill?

By posts do you mean pillars? They're about 2.5' on a face.

3/8" by 3" depth.
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Balog

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Re: Need advice on drilling into a vertical concrete pillar
« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2014, 03:06:28 PM »
I do not have the experience and expertise that you do, but is using a construction adhesive a workable alternative to the drill and anchor?

I don't particularly like or trust epoxy solutions, although perhaps I should look into them.

That's actually a pretty good drill. I have one.

Yes, you do need a good large SDS hammer drill, not the smaller ones, to do this. Also some good bits.

Do it the right way. Get the scaffolding, get an SDS hammer drill, get some good bits. Yes setting up and breaking down scaffolding is time consuming but it is far safer than trying to use a ladder on a slope like that. You think scaffolding is aggravating? An injury is going to be costly and time consuming. You can get some smaller scaffolding and just roll it to the next column, too, which helps a lot.
 
Is there any way you can work from the bed of a pickup truck and be at the height you need? That's a good platform option too.

Look, I am well familar with working with a short budget. My agency squeezes every penny until it screams. But there are times when you have to say "*expletive deleted* it I need this *expletive deleted* to do the job safely if you want it done" and explain why (safety, speed, cost savings compared to doing it the hard/stupid way, etc) and push until you get your way.



Depending on the cost it might be faster/cheaper/easier to just pay a contractor to knock it out for me. I'm the only guy at this property and I've got several other higher priority projects.
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Re: Need advice on drilling into a vertical concrete pillar
« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2014, 03:10:29 PM »
By posts do you mean pillars? They're about 2.5' on a face.

3/8" by 3" depth.

Can't you somehow run a strap around the pillar to hold up the mirror?

I would worry more about weakening the pillar and causeing the building to collapse  :O

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Balog

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Re: Need advice on drilling into a vertical concrete pillar
« Reply #8 on: March 12, 2014, 03:15:35 PM »
Can't you somehow run a strap around the pillar to hold up the mirror?

I would worry more about weakening the pillar and causeing the building to collapse  :O

My first reaction to the thread title was:  Don't!

If drilling a 3/8" by 3inch hole into a 2.5 foot on a side square concrete pillar made it collapse, i would have some serious questions about that pillar.  ;)

I suppose an external strap might work, but 1. it wouldn't look nice and 2. it'd be more accessible to vandals.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2014, 04:06:58 PM by Balog »
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Re: Need advice on drilling into a vertical concrete pillar
« Reply #9 on: March 12, 2014, 03:16:12 PM »
You mean I get to be the first to suggest the Universal Response to Solving Your Problem:

DET CORD!

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Balog

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Re: Need advice on drilling into a vertical concrete pillar
« Reply #10 on: March 12, 2014, 04:07:34 PM »
I'm thinking I should just spring for a better SDS drill, use some levelers on a ladder, and go for it.
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Re: Need advice on drilling into a vertical concrete pillar
« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2014, 04:23:25 PM »
I was going to suggest rotary (only) masonry bits:

http://www.midsouthcable.com/masonry_bit.jpg

I've got a set of these and they go up to 1/2in, including 3/8ths.. Set anchors in a concrete wall once to mount some shelving.  And no shock waves to upset the nearby concrete.

You could also rent a Ramset tool.  (Fun, to boot !)

http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/productImages/300/a3/a3bfaeae-7e84-4e95-b608-1612cba37973_300.jpg

I do not trust using any adhesives on things that have low tensile strength like concrete.  You can't glue anything to a pile of sand :).

I don't see that stainless strapping would be especially vulnerable to vandals, even if you have to use several "in series" to strap the post.  Especially if you bugger up the screw heads or threads when done... and no "hammering" effort to buck on a ladder. Eeek emoticon.

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« Last Edit: March 12, 2014, 05:28:04 PM by 230RN »
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AJ Dual

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Re: Need advice on drilling into a vertical concrete pillar
« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2014, 04:33:16 PM »
Can't you somehow run a strap around the pillar to hold up the mirror?

I would worry more about weakening the pillar and causeing the building to collapse  :O

My first reaction to the thread title was:  Don't!

Yes.

Industrial strap mounting brackets is what you seek. Screw the drill and the glue...  :P

And you can move it and re-position it as many times as need be when they decide it's not right and the mirrors need to be pointed somewhere else.

There are many options similar to this.. http://www.discountsignsupplies.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/s/i/sign_mounting_pole_bracket.jpg
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geronimotwo

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Re: Need advice on drilling into a vertical concrete pillar
« Reply #13 on: March 12, 2014, 04:56:48 PM »
I'm not sure what kind of pillar your garage has, but is it possible that they used pretensioned rebar?
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Balog

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Re: Need advice on drilling into a vertical concrete pillar
« Reply #14 on: March 12, 2014, 05:01:26 PM »
I'm not sure what kind of pillar your garage has, but is it possible that they used pretensioned rebar?

The slab is post tension, I believe the support pillars are normal poured in place with standard rebar. But I'm not hitting metal, just at a bad angle with a crappy drill.
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geronimotwo

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Re: Need advice on drilling into a vertical concrete pillar
« Reply #15 on: March 12, 2014, 06:49:05 PM »
if you are still going to drill, try using a strap around the post and fastened to you so that you are pulling against the post rather than pushing on the ladder.
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Brad Johnson

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Re: Need advice on drilling into a vertical concrete pillar
« Reply #16 on: March 12, 2014, 07:18:49 PM »
For hogged out holes, concrete anchor adhesive is a lifesaver.  That, or use slightly oversize wedge bolts.

Also, ever thought about renting a drill?  I bet you can rent an omigawd! animal of a tool that will have the job done in no time for about the same amount you'd have in a ho-hum unit.

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Re: Need advice on drilling into a vertical concrete pillar
« Reply #17 on: March 12, 2014, 09:56:02 PM »
They do have vacuum bases for core drills but they would not work on a round column. Plus you would have trouble getting a bit that small for a big machine like that.

I say strap it up and call it done.
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Re: Need advice on drilling into a vertical concrete pillar
« Reply #18 on: March 13, 2014, 08:50:03 AM »
Strap your ladder and/or yourself to the pillar so that you can get some pressure on the drill.

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Re: Re: Need advice on drilling into a vertical concrete pillar
« Reply #19 on: March 13, 2014, 09:09:35 AM »
Options-

Adhesive to hold a bracket. There are some pretty durn strong sticky stuff that should hold it fine.

Instead of drilling into the pillar, use a strapping system that goes around it to hold the stuff on. We do that here for anything we want mounted to one of the I beams. Use in conjunction with the adhesive option for some extra holding mojo.

Get a painter's ladder from home depot. Normally used to overcome having to setup a ladder on stairs but should work on the slope your dealing with if you choose the right ladder, lots easier then the scaffolding solution.

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Matthew Carberry

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Re: Need advice on drilling into a vertical concrete pillar
« Reply #20 on: March 13, 2014, 09:24:22 PM »
Rent a powered man lift. Drive up, park, set brake. Stand on flat, albeit sloped, surface at proper height with lots of room to lean.
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Re: Need advice on drilling into a vertical concrete pillar
« Reply #21 on: March 13, 2014, 09:52:34 PM »
.308

Poke hole from a safe distance, fill with Rockite from a Ziploc with a corner cut off, stuff anchor in before Rockite sets.

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Re: Need advice on drilling into a vertical concrete pillar
« Reply #22 on: March 13, 2014, 10:05:52 PM »
Not sure how steep of a slope we're talking but building up the low side with 2x6s so the ladder is level or even leaning in your favor might work for you. Then starting with smaller bits as in say a 1/4" pilot hole and then working my way up to 3/8" is another thought.
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Re: Need advice on drilling into a vertical concrete pillar
« Reply #24 on: March 13, 2014, 10:36:46 PM »
Build a 3" larger form around the pillar, including 3/8" hole.  Pour new concrete.