Post by: 280plus on October 27, 2007, 04:34:28 AM
Father: Funeral protest made him sick
By ALEX DOMINGUEZ
Associated Press Writer
Article Launched: 10/25/2007 10:24:57 AM EDT
The father of a Marine killed in Iraq took the stand in his invasion of privacy suit against a fundamentalist church that pickets soldiers' funerals, saying protesters carrying signs at his son's burial made him sick to his stomach.
Albert Snyder said Wednesday he had hoped for a private funeral for his son, Lance Cpl. Matthew Snyder.
"They turned this funeral into a media circus and they wanted to hurt my family," Snyder testified. "They wanted their message heard and they didn't care who they stepped over. My son should have been buried with dignity, not with a bunch of clowns outside."
Snyder is suing the Westboro Baptist church, whose members have picketed the funerals of military personnel killed in Iraq and Afghanistan, claiming the deaths are punishment for the country's tolerance of homosexuality. The York resident is seeking unspecified monetary damages in the case for invasion of privacy and intent to inflect emotional distress as a result of the Topeka, Kan., church's protest at his son's funeral in Westminster in March 2006.
The church's protests have inspired several state laws and a federal law about funeral protests, but the Maryland suit is believed to be the first filed by the family of a fallen serviceman.
Asked Wednesday about a sign that read "Thank God for dead soldiers," Snyder said he thinks about it daily.
"I see that sign when I lay in bed," Snyder said.
Asked about statements issued by the group that his son was raised to support the "Roman Catholic monstrosity" and then sent to fight for the "United States of Sodomy," Snyder said "they have no right to do this to people they didn't know."
During cross-examination, defense attorney Jonathan Katz focused on obituaries and death notices and questioned Snyder on whether they said the funeral services were private. Snyder replied that the notices said friends and family were welcome, but admitted that he did not know all of the 500 or so people who attended.
The case tests the limits of the First Amendment right to free speech.
U.S. District Court Judge Richard Bennett instructed jurors at the start of testimony Tuesday that the First Amendment protection of free speech has limits, including vulgar, offensive and shocking statements. Bennett said the jurors must decide "whether the defendant's actions would be highly offensive to a reasonable person, whether they were extreme and outrageous, and whether these actions were so offensive and shocking as to not be entitled to First Amendment protection."
Church members said they are motivated by the fear of God and their need to warn America about its moral decay, rather than a desire to hurt anyone.
Katz told jurors Tuesday the protests took place 1,000 feet away from St. John Catholic Church, where the funeral was held, down a hill and out of sight and hearing from participants.
Snyder said American military personnel are in Iraq fighting for freedom of speech "they're not fighting for hate speech." One photo showing a child holding a sign at the funeral protest was particularly disturbing, the father said.
"I pray for their children. Their children need help. To be brought up with that kind of hatred," Snyder said.
"My God is loving God," Snyder said, adding later "I don't look for hatred in the Bible."
The church's founder and pastor, Fred Phelps, took the stand after Snyder and prompted a strong admonition from Bennett when the pastor said he had not considered whether children would see a sign carried by protesters with the words "Semper Fi Fags" and two stick figures that appear to be engaged in sodomy.
"No, it's an irrelevancy," Phelps said.
Bennett then interjected sharply.
"Just answer the question, sir. Don't determine what's relevant or not relevant. You just answer the question," Bennett said.
Phelps said he chose to use the term "fag" in the group's signs because it comes from scripture but could also have used Sodomite or dog. When asked by Katz why the group made a "Semper Fi Fags" sign, Phelps said it was in response to the need for a warning to the country "that your wicked ways are going to be your doom shortly."
Post by: grampster on October 28, 2007, 02:40:56 PM
Jesus pointed out Phelp's hypocrisy when he spoke the parable of the prostitute that was to be stoned. "Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone."
Post by: 280plus on October 28, 2007, 02:44:51 PM
Post by: Tuco on October 28, 2007, 04:36:28 PM
They were there to "shield" the funeral from the WBC.
It was early one weekday morning while I was passing through Hudsonville, Michigan. Afterward, it was explained what occurred.
May God bless bikers, vets and other decent folk.
Post by: Mabs2 on October 28, 2007, 04:52:48 PM
Post by: tokugawa on October 28, 2007, 05:37:50 PM
Post by: Stand_watie on October 28, 2007, 07:10:00 PM
Soakers, the group you are referring to is the Patriot Guard Riders, formed to honor our dead and shield their families from the filth. I have ridden with them on a "mission' and was much impressed.
From what I have I read of them, I believe they're men and women who love their fellow man. I believe they're men and women who love their brothers and sisters. By their actions, regardless of their own personal belief system, I believe that they demonstrate they love G-d, even those of them, who don't know that they do so. I believe that G-d smiles upon their actions, even those who don't recognize it. Protecting another human being from substantial emotional harm, is a G-d given ability, that when done is an attribute from G-d, whether intended as such or not.
Compared to the lovely sound of frogs, crickets, locusts, etc, that I love, the sound of Harley's is loud and unpleasant.
Compared to the sound of human beings abusing other human beings at a funeral service, the roar of a Harley is the lovliest sound in the world...
Post by: Euclidean on October 28, 2007, 07:33:33 PM
Post by: Perd Hapley on October 28, 2007, 08:09:25 PM
Really? Not me. There but for the grace of God go each of us.
Post by: Nitrogen on October 28, 2007, 09:35:17 PM
On the other hand, I'd support anyone's private property rights, as well as 2nd amendment rights to convince Phelps to do something that better benefits his community by a variety of means that I'd be better off not knowing about, unless I'm in on it.
Post by: Boomhauer on October 29, 2007, 07:01:36 AM
Quote
As someone that supports the bill of rights, I must hold my nose, grit my teeth, and support Phelps's first amendment rights to be a complete jackass.
I can support his 1st amendment rights while beating the crap out of him, right?
I'm just "expressing myself"...
Post by: Nitrogen on October 29, 2007, 10:14:31 AM
Quote
As someone that supports the bill of rights, I must hold my nose, grit my teeth, and support Phelps's first amendment rights to be a complete jackass.
I can support his 1st amendment rights while beating the crap out of him, right?
I'm just "expressing myself"...
Post by: Soybomb on October 29, 2007, 11:07:59 AM
Quote
As someone that supports the bill of rights, I must hold my nose, grit my teeth, and support Phelps's first amendment rights to be a complete jackass.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
Post by: Hawkmoon on October 29, 2007, 02:42:51 PM
Quote
Phelps said he chose to use the term "fag" in the group's signs because it comes from scripture but could also have used Sodomite or dog.
I'd surely like to know which translation of the Bible he's reading. Lemme see, I've peeked into the King James Version, the Revised Standard Version, the New Revised Standard Version, and two or three others. I do NOT recall seeing any references to "fags."
As to freedom of speech and the 1st Amendment, y'all do realize (I hope) that it says the Congress shall make no law abridging the freedom of speech. The fact is, I believe the true intent of the 1st was never to allow any twit to say outrageous things with no repurcussions, but to guarantee that any citizen could openly criticize the government without fear of government reprisal.
And I believe that's ALL the 1st Amendment was intended to guarantee. It was certainly not intended to allow Fred Phelps and his motley crew to get in the face of the grieving relatives of every American serviceman killed in the line of duty.
If I could afford it, I'd buy a bike (haven't ridden for about 20 years) and keep it around just in case the Patriot Guard is needed in my neck of the woods.
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on October 29, 2007, 03:11:45 PM
Post by: Strings on October 29, 2007, 03:30:04 PM
Post by: MechAg94 on October 29, 2007, 05:04:03 PM
Post by: MechAg94 on October 29, 2007, 05:04:52 PM
Post by: Balog on October 29, 2007, 05:12:44 PM
Whenever I get around to getting my motorcycle endorsement, I thought about doing that. Then I thought about beating the living *expletive deleted*it out of these bastards. Then I smiled. Then I thought about how my wife would do with me in jail, and decided against it.
But the Patriot Guard is an awesome group.
Post by: Perd Hapley on October 29, 2007, 08:28:16 PM
Quote
Phelps said he chose to use the term "fag" in the group's signs because it comes from scripture but could also have used Sodomite or dog.
I'd surely like to know which translation of the Bible he's reading. Lemme see, I've peeked into the King James Version, the Revised Standard Version, the New Revised Standard Version, and two or three others. I do NOT recall seeing any references to "fags."
I've heard him mention that before, a few years ago. I think he's referring to Amos 4:11.
11I have overthrown some of you, as God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah, and ye were as a firebrand plucked out of the burning: yet have ye not returned unto me, saith the LORD.
The King James uses "firebrand," but it is understandable that he might translate that as *Not nice word for gay men* (bundle of sticks for burning) or as in fag end of a cigarette. Might be poor translating, but you could see why he might go that direction. Couple that with the Romans 1 reference to homosexuals burning in their lust for one another. Then throw in that he's a nut-case.
Don't know where the "dog" comes from, though. I also have this crazy thought that he really just wants to offend as many people as possible. But that's just insane.
Post by: Strings on October 29, 2007, 08:48:10 PM
Personally, I fully believe that one day, they'll hit the wrong funeral. One with no news cameras, a fairly remote location, and LOTS of mourners. And then, you'll hear about the search for their bodies...
Post by: The Viking on October 29, 2007, 08:54:09 PM
IIRC, several of Phelps family are lawyers. I honestly think "the Phelps plan" is to push someone into doing something stupid, then suing the hell out of 'em...
Personally, I fully believe that one day, they'll hit the wrong funeral. One with no news cameras, a fairly remote location, and LOTS of mourners. And then, you'll hear about the search for their bodies...
Something tells me that if Phelps and his group were to "dissapear" after a funeral, the local police, where ever it happened, wouldn't be very inclined to find their remains Personally, I fully believe that one day, they'll hit the wrong funeral. One with no news cameras, a fairly remote location, and LOTS of mourners. And then, you'll hear about the search for their bodies...
.
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on October 29, 2007, 09:06:23 PM
Post by: jeepmor on October 30, 2007, 02:21:46 PM
Post by: 280plus on October 30, 2007, 05:39:24 PM
Post by: RoadKingLarry on October 30, 2007, 06:13:19 PM
for those that have never seen these cretins here is a sample of their "protests". this one was at a funeral in a small town in Oklahoma at the funeral of a young soldier killed in Afghanistan.
Post by: Phyphor on October 30, 2007, 07:19:38 PM
I've made too many missions with the Patriot Guard Riders here in Oklahoma, the phelps crowd is deliberately attempting to provoke an assault so they can video tape it and sue everyone involved, city, county, state LE and any other group that might have money.
for those that have never seen these cretins here is a sample of their "protests". this one was at a funeral in a small town in Oklahoma at the funeral of a young soldier killed in Afghanistan.
for those that have never seen these cretins here is a sample of their "protests". this one was at a funeral in a small town in Oklahoma at the funeral of a young soldier killed in Afghanistan.
God, that's infuriating.....
Pity someone couldn't snipe out the cameras and then beat the living *expletive deleted*it out of them....