Death penalty barred for child rape

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

"Practically all the countries of the world, the United States included, have got along for centuries without having it."

really?the death penalty was fairly common  still is some places  folks used to get it for stealing horses and cattle. been done for auto theft and pimping in china recently  big numbers   in the ussr you could get it too. what world did you live in?  .... er   i mean read about

[Matthew Carberry]

Don't be deliberately obtuse, it's unbecoming. 

What exactly makes the death penalty for "child molestation" needed?

Practically all the countries of the world, the United States included, have got along for centuries without having it. How is it "needed"?

Obviously the particular death penalty crime being referred to, in context, is for convicted child molesters.  Not horse thieves or political dissidents or any other random crime selection.

That also being the actual thread title makes his meaning even more obvious, obvious enough that to mis-read it demonstrates an active attempt to raise a strawman.

Also, were you seriously offering the USSR and China as shining examples of state executioners (for any crime) for the US justice system to emulate?

Really?

[MechAg94]

adult life consists of a number of needed actions that are often uncomfortable you get used to it

That's interesting.

What exactly makes the death penalty for "child molestation" needed?

Practically all the countries of the world, the United States included, have got along for centuries without having it. How is it "needed"?

Might want to count those years again.  Perhaps you meant to say decades.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Also, were you seriously offering the USSR and China as shining examples of state executioners (for any crime) for the US justice system to emulate?


in some cases yes. knowing corruption gets you a bullet in the ear is a good incentive.
i've met folks who i would cheerfully send on their way.

[MechAg94]

Regardless of whether or not you think the death penalty is right to begin with, I am sure it is at least obvious how screwy this ruling is.  IMO, we are talking about a crime that is at least as cruel and evil as capital murder itself if not worse.  To say that it doesn't rate the same punishment is really messed up logic. 

[De Selby]

Regardless of whether or not you think the death penalty is right to begin with, I am sure it is at least obvious how screwy this ruling is.  IMO, we are talking about a crime that is at least as cruel and evil as capital murder itself if not worse.  To say that it doesn't rate the same punishment is really messed up logic. 

It's usually necessary to actually read the decisions before criticizing the logic.

It's a tough job the Court has-they are bound to rely on a morass of law that most of the public has never heard of, and then to make decisions that make sense from it.  I'm sure they would very much prefer to just free wheel it and decide based on what seemed to be popular at the moment, but then they'd be called "Congress". 

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Regardless of whether or not you think the death penalty is right to begin with, I am sure it is at least obvious how screwy this ruling is.  IMO, we are talking about a crime that is at least as cruel and evil as capital murder itself if not worse.  To say that it doesn't rate the same punishment is really messed up logic. 

It's usually necessary to actually read the decisions before criticizing the logic.

It's a tough job the Court has-they are bound to rely on a morass of law that most of the public has never heard of, and then to make decisions that make sense from it.  I'm sure they would very much prefer to just free wheel it and decide based on what seemed to be popular at the moment, but then they'd be called "Congress". 

gotta give ya that    point well taken

[Matthew Carberry]

adult life consists of a number of needed actions that are often uncomfortable you get used to it

That's interesting.

What exactly makes the death penalty for "child molestation" needed?

Practically all the countries of the world, the United States included, have got along for centuries without having it. How is it "needed"?

Might want to count those years again.  Perhaps you meant to say decades.

Decades since we've executed people for child molestation?

The law authorizing that penalty for that crime being stricken was new.

For G-d's sake argue intelligently, not like politicians deliberately pulling crap out of context.

[MicroBalrog]

really?the death penalty was fairly common  still is some places 

Yes, I am aware the death penalty is fairly common - in crapholes where the light of human liberty never shines, I may add - but I was very specific: to my knowledge, no country in the world has tried the death penalty for child molestation.

I also perfectly agree as to what carebear said as to perception vs. reality.

[LadySmith]

Death appears to be the only effective means of dealing with child molesters at this time.

Please elaborate as to why life in prison is ineffective. It seems to work for... oh I don't know, the entire world.

Life in prison without possibility of parole may be an effective alternative. However, we have a system burdened by overcrowding and political whimsy. What a criminal gets and what is actually served may be two entirely different things over here.

Simply put, it is most likely that we are just more aware of what has been going on all along, with society and its children somehow surviving all these years with standard, proven, criminal justice responses.

Or perhaps justice found outside of the system helped the victims survive.
I agree that we may be more aware of what has been going on all along because even when I was a child, one did not speak of such things. I also recall that not too long ago rape victims were advised to "lie back and enjoy it" so I'm curious as to what the proven criminal justice responses to child rape were. I will do some research.

Forgive me, but I'm going to bow out of this discussion. I feel strained from trying to be rational about a subject I really have no inclination to be rational about. 

[Racehorse]

i say compelled for numerous reasons. you never can trust a molestor not to do it again. it is incomprehensible to me that a person would knowingly and volentarly rape or murder for enjoyment, especially when it comes to a child. they're are also KNOWN psycological problems which make them impossible to rehabilitate.
by what means do they begin? because something in them compels them to do it. the fact that they have acted on those urges makes them twice as likley to do it again.
my use of that term does not defend them. which i'm sure you have figured out by the fact that i am perfectly willing to send them to the executioner.

I agree that they have urges to do these things that may compel them to do it. But they also make the choice to foster and encourage those urges and ultimately to act upon them. I still believe that ultimately it's a choice to give in. We all have urges at times to do things we know are wrong. What makes someone a good or bad person is how they deal with those urges.

By the way, I do know you're not trying to defend molestors. I was just trying to clarify what you meant by "compelled." I think we're basically in agreement.

[MechAg94]

adult life consists of a number of needed actions that are often uncomfortable you get used to it

That's interesting.

What exactly makes the death penalty for "child molestation" needed?

Practically all the countries of the world, the United States included, have got along for centuries without having it. How is it "needed"?

Might want to count those years again.  Perhaps you meant to say decades.

Decades since we've executed people for child molestation?

The law authorizing that penalty for that crime being stricken was new.

For G-d's sake argue intelligently, not like politicians deliberately pulling crap out of context.

I didn't see that you were referring to that specific crime.  Some of the arguments had drifted a lot.   

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

once upon a time justice was swift   and handed down outside court

[Dntsycnt]

Yay, lynching!  Forget all that "innocent until proven guilty" stuff.  It should just be, "Guilty until proven dead."

[roo_ster]

Yay, lynching!  Forget all that "innocent until proven guilty" stuff.  It should just be, "Guilty until proven dead."

When the formal justice system fails, the informal justice system will step in to fill the gaps.

So, by denying the justice meted out by the death penalty in these cases, don't be too surprised when folks accused of such heinous crimes get rough justice by folks who have lost confidence that the system will mete out justice.

Thing is, rough justice is more prone to error, so more innocent folks will be hurt than if the formal system allowed for the death penalty.

[anygunanywhere]

The problem with the ruling is that it wasn't the justice's ox that was gittin' gored. This is typically true too of those most vehemently opposed to capital punishment.

If I see someone who has had a loved one murdered or one of their children raped state that the death penalty is not justified, then I accept that person's testimony as valid.

Capital punishment for molesting one of God's children is justified, and should be carried out in public.

Anygunanywhere

[Antibubba]

When the formal justice system fails, the informal justice system will step in to fill the gaps.

So, by denying the justice meted out by the death penalty in these cases, don't be too surprised when folks accused of such heinous crimes get rough justice by folks who have lost confidence that the system will mete out justice.

It isn't often I see such advocacy for lynching.

[roo_ster]

When the formal justice system fails, the informal justice system will step in to fill the gaps.

So, by denying the justice meted out by the death penalty in these cases, don't be too surprised when folks accused of such heinous crimes get rough justice by folks who have lost confidence that the system will mete out justice.

It isn't often I see such advocacy for lynching.

Really?  When was the last time you saw such advocacy? 

I have seen in this thread and (particularly) in my post descriptions of likely results based on experience with human nature. 

[MicroBalrog]

If I see someone who has had a loved one murdered or one of their children raped state that the death penalty is not justified, then I accept that person's testimony as valid.

That's an ad hominem if I ever heard one.