Scientific proof that wine snobs are full of it

[RevDisk]

It's the same concept behind tube guitar amplifiers.

Perfect reproduction, and a very abrupt distortion (versus a gradual curve in tube amps)  that solid state circuitry provides, is not very musical.

The imperfection enhances the music.

Another example is the difference between quality "listening" speakers and reference monitors. The goal is to use something super accurate to mix/master the material, so that it sounds good in an accurate reproduction, whereas stereo speakers designed for listening are purpose built to enhance the source.

A musician friend tried explaining it to me. Basically, the old analog stuff had lots of distortion. Folks liked it, and that came to be expected. Digital stuff is a lot more clean, which people dislike. So the real money is making digital stuff that sounds a lot less clean. Yep, as you stated, Line 6 was the leading edge of making digital equipment that sounded better to people's musical taste and worse from "clean and precise" perspective.

That was also his opinion on vinyl vs CD. More distortion, less clean, people liked it better. There are ways of reproducing/emulating the same distortion and inducing artifacts in modern formats, but sound engineers tend not to do so.

[zahc]

A similar phenomenon was responsible for Kodak losing a big chunk of market share to Fuji in the 80s and 90s. Kodak engineers couldn't bring themselves to make a film technically worse; meanwhile people bought bricks of Fujichrome Velvia like it was going out of style...orange skin tones and all.

[Scout26]

Same thing happens in other fields.

I remember have a long discussion regarding Symphony Orchestras.   The Ops Manager liked the Chicago Symphony because under both Solti and Barenboim they strived to be "laser perfect".  I argued that I enjoyed the Elgin Symphony more because the music had more "warmth" simply due to that lack of perfection.

The other managers couldn't believe we were arguing (not yelling, but vehemently discussing), our choices of orchestras.   

[Nick1911]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_cult_science

Remember folks, the easiest person to fool is yourself.

[Scout26]

^^^^ "Globular Woerming"

While in the car today on the way to my doctor's appointment, Rush was discussing "Climate Change" and pointed out that records from the Nixon White House have 1970 memo's from Daniel Patrick Moniyhan that by 2000, Global Temperatures would rise by 7*F and New York and DC would be underwater because of......





wait for it...........










Carbon Dioxide !!!!!



And we needed to do SOMETHING RIGHT NOW BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE !!!!!




And that was 44 years ago.




Proving once again that democrats over-promise and under-deliver.

[Fitz]

A musician friend tried explaining it to me. Basically, the old analog stuff had lots of distortion. Folks liked it, and that came to be expected. Digital stuff is a lot more clean, which people dislike. So the real money is making digital stuff that sounds a lot less clean. Yep, as you stated, Line 6 was the leading edge of making digital equipment that sounded better to people's musical taste and worse from "clean and precise" perspective.

That was also his opinion on vinyl vs CD. More distortion, less clean, people liked it better. There are ways of reproducing/emulating the same distortion and inducing artifacts in modern formats, but sound engineers tend not to do so.

Here's some great reading , including the links.

http://www.theaudioarchive.com/TAA_Resources_Tubes_versus_Solid_State.htm

As for guitar amps... the biggest difference is in HOW the distortion appears. Gain stages on a solid state amp (absent modeling technology) are abrupt as hell. Whereas tube gain stages are extremely smooth and responsive to attack. The sudden onset of the distortion present in SS preamps has a very non musical quality to it.

Hard vs soft clipping.

here's a decent writeup

http://www.trueaudio.com/at_eetjlm.htm

[Scout26]

Here's some great reading , including the links.

http://www.theaudioarchive.com/TAA_Resources_Tubes_versus_Solid_State.htm

As for guitar amps... the biggest difference is in HOW the distortion appears. Gain stages on a solid state amp (absent modeling technology) are abrupt as hell. Whereas tube gain stages are extremely smooth and responsive to attack. The sudden onset of the distortion present in SS preamps has a very non musical quality to it.

Hard vs soft clipping.

here's a decent writeup

http://www.trueaudio.com/at_eetjlm.htm

The best way it was describedto me was if you look on a 'scope tube amps have rounded curves and solid state amps are squared off, the human ear finds that less abrupt "change" more pleasing. (generally, except for those long-eared heathens who wouldn't recognize good music if someone hit them over the head with a guitar.)

[Fitz]

Yep. Also tube distortion responds to pick attack. Strike strings softly, very little if any distortion. Smash em, sounds crunchy

[MechAg94]

I guess it depends on what sort of distortion you are talking about.  When I try to listen to old Yes albums, I want to hear it clearly without background static of a vinyl record.  The CD does that.  Some of the older CD versions carried over from records had a lot of background static.  Something like Beethoven's 9th goes from quite to loud all the time and having background static sucks. 

I think most of the audiophiles probably have better systems and are talking about other types of distortion and stuff.  For normal folks with normal systems, decent digital formats do a better job of cleanly reproducing the recording. 

[Tallpine]

IIRC, oxygenating whatever wine you drink makes it taste MUCH better. Pouring the 2-buck chuck back and forth between a couple of glasses for a minute or two made it taste as good or better than the $$$ stuff allowed to "sit and breathe" for a bit. Or so ISTR from reading a little while back. Do not recall whether oxygenating the $$$ stuff the same way improved it enough to make it worth the $$$ by comparison.

So I guess we were onto something way back when we drank white Amaden from a bota bag around the campfire 

[Nick1911]

IIRC, oxygenating whatever wine you drink makes it taste MUCH better.

Challenge.  Accepted.

[erictank]

Challenge.  Accepted.

And how did it taste?

[Ron]

I do the 15 pours routine if I find a wine harsh.

Two glasses, pour into one glass then back and forth 14 times from another glass aerating the wine.

It does change the flavor of the wine towards being more drinkable. After the first two glasses it really doesn't matter :)
   

[Nick1911]

And how did it taste?

Honestly, I couldn't tell any difference.

Perhaps I'll setup a blinded test to get some unbias data.

[Devonai]

My parents moved to a smaller place last year, and as I result I ended up with their turntable.  I have all of my mom's Jethro Tull albums, which I'd been listening to on cassette, CDs, and MP3s as the years went by.  When I got home and set up the turntable, it might as well have been a Delorean.  It brought back memories and details from 30 years ago that I never would have remembered otherwise.  And, of course, it sounds "right" to my ear.

So I can definitely appreciate why vinyl snobs feel the way they do.  However, I don't feel the same about other albums that I have.  They don't have the same contrast and context for me as those British prog rock weirdos.

[HankB]

I tend to chuckle when I'm at the store and sample some wines - the product demo lady talks about the wine having "an undercurrent of cinnamon" or some "essences of peach and blackberry" . . . none of which are in the wine.

I've yet to taste things that aren't there . . .

As for audio:

I need to find the one with cables that have an oval cross section to let the electrons flow better. 

The oval cross section will polarize the electron flow, which requires properly phase matched crossover networks and hypertrophic luppinsnarf.  

More seriously for audio purists, I just read a disheartening ( ) article in the newspaper - it seems that in blind listening tests, Stradivarius violins don't always win listening tests.

http://www.statesman.com/news/news/in-blind-test-most-soloists-like-new-violins-over-/nffwp/

[Dannyboy]

Did it really take science to prove that?  Wouldn't the first review that proffered, "hints of game" do that?  And, yes, I did read that in a review.  It was a long time ago and, no, I won't go looking for the quote.