Would life on Mars change your world view?

[MillCreek]

https://bigthink.com/surprising-science/life-on-mars-proof?rebelltitem=1#rebelltitem1

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/im-convinced-we-found-evidence-of-life-on-mars-in-the-1970s/

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/nasa-mars-life-discovery-space-exomars-rover-chief-scientist-jim-green-a9125076.html

https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/30/us/nasa-life-on-mars-jim-green-scn-trnd/index.html

Some people think that alien life on Mars was found in 1976, and not followed up on, and some people think that discovering life on Mars would be shocking to the cultural and religious world view of many. 

Would the discovery and confirmation of life outside of Earth be a shock to you?  Although I cannot cite any evidence yet to support my opinion, my thought is that due to the almost infinite locations in the Universe, there must be life and intelligent life elsewhere in the Universe.  I would welcome the discovery, as long as it is not something along the lines of 'To Serve Man': https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/To_Serve_Man_(The_Twilight_Zone)

[makattak]

https://bigthink.com/surprising-science/life-on-mars-proof?rebelltitem=1#rebelltitem1

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/im-convinced-we-found-evidence-of-life-on-mars-in-the-1970s/

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/nasa-mars-life-discovery-space-exomars-rover-chief-scientist-jim-green-a9125076.html

https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/30/us/nasa-life-on-mars-jim-green-scn-trnd/index.html

Some people think that alien life on Mars was found in 1976, and not followed up on, and some people think that discovering life on Mars would be shocking to the cultural and religious world view of many. 

Would the discovery and confirmation of life outside of Earth be a shock to you?  Although I cannot cite any evidence yet to support my opinion, my thought is that due to the almost infinite locations in the Universe, there must be life and intelligent life elsewhere in the Universe.  I would welcome the discovery, as long as it is not something along the lines of 'To Serve Man': https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/To_Serve_Man_(The_Twilight_Zone)

I'd be surprised to find sentient life elsewhere, but my faith does not dictate that life only exists on this earth. In fact, C.S. Lewis has a trilogy about life on other planets. (Where the Fall of Man affected those planets, as well. It's an interesting concept.)


(C.S. Lewis being one of the greatest Christian apologists of the 20th century.)

[MechAg94]

I don't see why it would change anything, but people can be strange about such things. 

[AZRedhawk44]

Wouldn't change mine.  I suspect life in bacterial/fungal/spore form exists in our Solar System in extremophile environments, though it's unlikely that complex life such as plants and animals share our Sun.  Pretty much anywhere with hydrodynamic and/or thermal cycles.  Mars, Ceres, Europa, Titan.

It's my hope that humanity has respect for demonstrated ecosystems on other bodies and efforts to not interfere with them, but also doesn't allow bacterial life or simple single cellular life to stop us from colonizing other bodies or using them for resources.  There's too many people in interplanetary sciences that want to keep the entire solar system as a private laboratory, a scientist-only club.

[MillCreek]

I suspect life in bacterial/fungal/spore form exists in our Solar System in extremophile environments,

If this is discovered, it will be interesting to see if the life forms share common origins or traits with Terran life, suggesting a panspermia hypothesis.

[Ben]

Almost certainly there is microbial life in the solar system. It wouldn't change my world view to a great degree.

To apply APS thread drift, what I HAVE been interested in of late is the Silurian Hypothesis: That Earth has had one or more advanced civilizations already rise and fall. Since pretty much nothing from before the Quaternary has been exposed, we don't know what artifacts might be preserved well below the Earth's surface. Also think about what human artifacts could possibly withstand 100 million years or more. A half a billion years from now, there might be new intelligent life on Earth and no traces of us.

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/international-journal-of-astrobiology/article/silurian-hypothesis-would-it-be-possible-to-detect-an-industrial-civilization-in-the-geological-record/77818514AA6907750B8F4339F7C70EC6

[Jocassee]

I doubt there is life outside of earth, partly for theological reasons, but have considered the possibility that I might be wrong.

If it turns out to be so, some people would have their faith shaken, some people would alter their construct, some people would declare it fake news. Probably the last item more than anything else.

[Ben]

I doubt there is life outside of earth, partly for theological reasons, but have considered the possibility that I might be wrong.

I'm genuinely interested in the theological reasons. I'm just a half-assed Catholic, and my beliefs are probably not in line with the church. However, when I look up into the night sky, my thought is, "God is a pretty smart guy. Why would he waste billions of planets?"

[RocketMan]

I suspect life in bacterial/fungal/spore form exists in our Solar System in extremophile environments.

You mean like Democrats?

[RocketMan]

I'm genuinely interested in the theological reasons. I'm just a half-assed Catholic, and my beliefs are probably not in line with the church. However, when I look up into the night sky, my thought is, "God is a pretty smart guy. Why would he waste billions of planets?"

Though I am not a Catholic, half-assed or otherwise, I have often wondered the same thing for the same reasons.

[Jocassee]

I'm genuinely interested in the theological reasons. I'm just a half-assed Catholic, and my beliefs are probably not in line with the church. However, when I look up into the night sky, my thought is, "God is a pretty smart guy. Why would he waste billions of planets?"

I'm abbreviating 2000 years of church thought and shoving it into a conversation that the Bible doesn't even really address, but it goes something like this:

First of all there's the argument from silence, that since it remains unaddressed, then it probably doesn't exist, because it is Kind of a Big Deal, however, the holy writings are silent on all sorts of things we might wish commentary on.

When it comes to intelligent life in particular, humans are considered to be the pinnacle of creation, the only being endowed with a soul. Envisioning other intelligent beings leads to the problem of fitting them into what is admittedly, *traditionally*, a rather absolute arrangement between human souls and God.

That said, i think the *biggest* theological issues are going to be raised by the many evangelicals who subscribe to the so called Young Earth theory of creation, ie, everything is really just a few thousand years old, created to look older. That mindset, if it is not prescribed specifically, holds to the unbounded specialness of the Earth and Humans in the cosmic scheme.

Other traditions, such as the Catholics, subscribe to a more gradualist view of God where he is more active thru natural laws over eons of time (such as in evolution) and thus might not have as big a problem with the notion.

[Nick1911]

The discovery and confirmation of life outside of Earth would not suprise me, or change my worldview.  Quite the contrary, on a long enough timeline, not finding life outside earth would raise more questions for me.

[Ben]

I'm abbreviating 2000 years of church thought and shoving it into a conversation that the Bible doesn't even really address, but it goes something like this:

Thanks for that, and before I respond, a general message:

This could be a very interesting philosophical APS, sipping whiskey around the virtual campfire, discussion. Everyone needs to just accept the beliefs / non-beliefs of others. No "religion is stupid" or "shun the unbeliever who's burning in hell" stuff.

So for the sake of argument, conceding the "humans are the pinnacle of creation, and the only being endowed with a soul", is there any way to interpret the bible as saying that intelligence is only possible with a soul? Otherwise, God also created dogs (yay!) and cows and worms and fish.

We will concede that they (except for dogs) have no soul, but they are still life that God created. So why can't God create that same soulless life on other worlds? If we accept that God created the beasts for the use of Man, can't we also suppose that God anticipated Man going to the stars, so he might have created "the beasts" on other worlds humans may set foot on?

Again, just one discussion example based on my limited knowledge of the bible and the "beasts for the use of man" thing. My personal opinion would be that I would not take my starship to another world with a technological civilization and assume they were for my use. However, for life away from Earth, I don't see why God couldn't have created a Martian cow to make hamburgers from.

[MechAg94]

I'm abbreviating 2000 years of church thought and shoving it into a conversation that the Bible doesn't even really address, but it goes something like this:

First of all there's the argument from silence, that since it remains unaddressed, then it probably doesn't exist, because it is Kind of a Big Deal, however, the holy writings are silent on all sorts of things we might wish commentary on.

When it comes to intelligent life in particular, humans are considered to be the pinnacle of creation, the only being endowed with a soul. Envisioning other intelligent beings leads to the problem of fitting them into what is admittedly, *traditionally*, a rather absolute arrangement between human souls and God.

That said, i think the *biggest* theological issues are going to be raised by the many evangelicals who subscribe to the so called Young Earth theory of creation, ie, everything is really just a few thousand years old, created to look older. That mindset, if it is not prescribed specifically, holds to the unbounded specialness of the Earth and Humans in the cosmic scheme.

Other traditions, such as the Catholics, subscribe to a more gradualist view of God where he is more active thru natural laws over eons of time (such as in evolution) and thus might not have as big a problem with the notion.

On the first bold, how do we even know that we will continue to use radio waves for comms in another 100 years?  Or that other species would use it?  Or that the radio waves we generate actually go that far and there is nothing that stops them.  Voyager has made some interesting discoveries at the edge of the system.  We are still getting signals from it.  Until we venture out there, it is still speculation to a degree.

On the 2nd bold, I think the shock would be even bigger for many if it was discovered/proven the Earth actually was less than 10K years old.  

[MechAg94]

Wouldn't change mine.  I suspect life in bacterial/fungal/spore form exists in our Solar System in extremophile environments, though it's unlikely that complex life such as plants and animals share our Sun.  Pretty much anywhere with hydrodynamic and/or thermal cycles.  Mars, Ceres, Europa, Titan.

It's my hope that humanity has respect for demonstrated ecosystems on other bodies and efforts to not interfere with them, but also doesn't allow bacterial life or simple single cellular life to stop us from colonizing other bodies or using them for resources.  There's too many people in interplanetary sciences that want to keep the entire solar system as a private laboratory, a scientist-only club.

The issue to me would be trying to prevent or control something that they can't control.  Could the spread of disease between the Old World and the New World have been prevented in 1492?  Probably not since they had little understanding for it and contact would have been inevitable.  I think the same would apply to anywhere we go.  Cross contamination will happen eventually.

[230RN]

The discovery and confirmation of life outside of Earth would not suprise me, or change my worldview.  Quite the contrary, on a long enough timeline, not finding life outside earth would raise more questions for me.

I expect to find life here and there in the solar system as well as "out there."  I would also expect some of it to develop into sentient self-aware beings "out there."  (And, just maybe, under the ice pack of that moon as well.)

Although this has been interpreted in perhaps a dozen different ways, it has been said that "in my house there are many mansions." I forget which Biblical luminary said it, but it was one of the big ones.

( :) )

Terry

[MechAg94]

Almost certainly there is microbial life in the solar system. It wouldn't change my world view to a great degree.

To apply APS thread drift, what I HAVE been interested in of late is the Silurian Hypothesis: That Earth has had one or more advanced civilizations already rise and fall. Since pretty much nothing from before the Quaternary has been exposed, we don't know what artifacts might be preserved well below the Earth's surface. Also think about what human artifacts could possibly withstand 100 million years or more. A half a billion years from now, there might be new intelligent life on Earth and no traces of us.

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/international-journal-of-astrobiology/article/silurian-hypothesis-would-it-be-possible-to-detect-an-industrial-civilization-in-the-geological-record/77818514AA6907750B8F4339F7C70EC6

I don't think it would take near that long for traces of our civilization to disappear.  Very little of what we make would survive especially when looking at not only thousands, but 10,000 or 100,000 years out.  Even the pyramids or Mouth Rushmore would eventually change.  When they are talking in the 100,000 years or millions, you are talking about multiple climate cycles and significant geologic shifts are possible.  

If an older civilization used similar technical processes and building materials to what we use, they would be the same.  I am trying to think of what we have built now that would survive in geologic time frames and coming up blank.  Even giant stone monuments would erode.  Things like bronze statues might last a while, but I am not sure over that amount of time and the wrong conditions could still deteriorate or erode them.  Even if something lasted in bulk, would it still be recognizable?  

[Ben]

If an older civilization used similar technical processes and building materials to what we use, they would be the same.  I am trying to think of what we have built now that would survive in geologic time frames and coming up blank.  Even giant stone monuments would erode.  Things like bronze statues might last a while, but I am not sure over that amount of time and the wrong conditions could still deteriorate or erode them.  Even if something lasted in bulk, would it still be recognizable?  

Which is one reason the hypothesis is so interesting to me. Heck, we're talking humans at our current technological level, and the hypothesis is just looking at some intelligent life that may have only advanced as far as our earliest civilizations. Discovered fire, the wheel, etc.

And I agree that AFAIK, anything humans created would likely disappear MUCH sooner than a hundred million (or maybe just a million) years. Which again makes the hypothesis interesting because there could literally have been hundreds of life forms prior to ours that evolved into tool builders and global industrial societies.

[WLJ]

[charby]

Life on mars, outside of bacteria type critters would surprise me. Life outside of our solar system wouldn't surprise me at all. I still think all life on earth is extra terrestrial in it's origin. Something single celled in nature survived a flight through space on a rock and landed on early earth and slowly evolved into all the species that inhabit (or had inhabited) the earth.

[RoadKingLarry]

We will concede that they (except for dogs) have no soul,

Cats have souls, they were stolen from the people they have enslaved.

[RoadKingLarry]

The number of stars in our galaxy is beyond the capacity of the human mind to grasp.
To imagine that our world is the only place where life has sprung would be disheartening.

I also tend to favor the Silurian Hypothesis. It seems every year more and more "ancient" stuff comes to light and some of the explanations for some of the ancient sights so far discovered don't ring for me.
As for what we know, the Earth is some 4.5 billion years old (according to science). The oldest civilization we can confirm is around 50,000 years, (Australian Aborigines). With Mesopotamia being a distant 2nd at about 7500-8000 years old.
That's a lot of time for things to rise and fall between point A and now.

[French G.]

We're hitched to a little Podunk star in a backwater Galaxy and we know a little about .00000000000000000000000~1% of the rest of it. Be shocking to think we were the only thing out there.

[Andiron]

So for the sake of argument, conceding the "humans are the pinnacle of creation, and the only being endowed with a soul", is there any way to interpret the bible as saying that intelligence is only possible with a soul? Otherwise, God also created dogs (yay!) and cows and worms and fish.

Anyone that says dog's don't go to heaven can take their flawed theology and GTFO  .   There's no way to share your life with a dog and think it's only a meat robot with no soul.

I have nothing to add on the main topic, other than I wish I'd live long enough to see what comes.  We'll probably run into other life, maybe even sentient, but I don't think it will be anytime soon.  Unless said undiscovered life finds us first.

[lee n. field]

Cats have souls, they were stolen from the people they have enslaved.

They take them out and play pounce and catch games at night.