Author Topic: Wow! Shepherd Smith vs Ralph Nader, who calls Obama an Uncle Tom  (Read 14665 times)

K Frame

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Wow! Shepherd Smith vs Ralph Nader, who calls Obama an Uncle Tom
« on: November 06, 2008, 01:13:14 AM »
This is incredible from someone like Ralph Nader...

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/sfgate/indexn?blogid=24
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Monkeyleg

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Re: Wow! Shepherd Smith vs Ralph Nader, who calls Obama an Uncle Tom
« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2008, 01:19:54 AM »
Why incredible? In my experience it's liberals who are more apt to be racists than conservatives.

Perd Hapley

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Re: Wow! Shepherd Smith vs Ralph Nader, who calls Obama an Uncle Tom
« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2008, 01:31:24 AM »
It's incredible, because they usually take off the hood, before they get on camera. 
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RaspberrySurprise

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Re: Wow! Shepherd Smith vs Ralph Nader, who calls Obama an Uncle Tom
« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2008, 02:11:21 AM »
I think this makes even the goofiest of Ron Paul statements pale in comparison.
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xavier fremboe

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Re: Wow! Shepherd Smith vs Ralph Nader, who calls Obama an Uncle Tom
« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2008, 04:40:12 AM »
No one remembers Nader getting a pass for saying he "felt like a n-----" a few years ago?
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Tuco

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Re: Wow! Shepherd Smith vs Ralph Nader, who calls Obama an Uncle Tom
« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2008, 07:02:49 AM »
Like him or not, Nader is an extremely intelligent man who is not threatened by words, nor will he be bullied by those who are - a trait that would serve many.

Regardless of his politics, I admire a man who can stand strong for what he believes without getting caught up in the meaningless hype of big dollar politics.

Nader's biggest mistake was going on Fox in the first place.

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nobody's_hero

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Re: Wow! Shepherd Smith vs Ralph Nader, who calls Obama an Uncle Tom
« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2008, 08:06:44 AM »
You guys do know what an "uncle tom" is, right?

Iain

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Re: Wow! Shepherd Smith vs Ralph Nader, who calls Obama an Uncle Tom
« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2008, 08:18:36 AM »
"To put it very simply, he is our first African-American president. And we wish him well. But his choice, basically, is whether he is going to be Uncle Sam for this country, or Uncle Tom for the giant corporations"

Poor choice of words. Very poor choice of words, he should have "...Uncle Sam for this country, or a stooge for the giant corporations" which is what he meant. Doesn't have the same rhetorical flow though.
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nobody's_hero

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Re: Wow! Shepherd Smith vs Ralph Nader, who calls Obama an Uncle Tom
« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2008, 08:51:54 AM »
"To put it very simply, he is our first African-American president. And we wish him well. But his choice, basically, is whether he is going to be Uncle Sam for this country, or Uncle Tom for the giant corporations"

Poor choice of words. Very poor choice of words, he should have "...Uncle Sam for this country, or a stooge for the giant corporations" which is what he meant. Doesn't have the same rhetorical flow though.

I'll agree that it was probably a poor choice of words, particularly if the audience has timid ears (the corporate media has done excellent work in thinning the skin of the American people, to the extent that we've been left utterly powerless in the face of . . . words). Of course, it isn't like Shep Smith wasn't jumping at a chance to skewer his guest from the start of this roughly 4:20 seconds of wasted air-time.  :rolleyes:

And, reading the quote again, Nader never calls Obama an 'uncle tom.' That's Obama's choice. Given his voting record in the Senate, I'll come right out here and predict that Obama is going to be just another lackey for those failed corporations who just want more and more bail-outs from 'we the people slaves.' Shep Smith probably doesn't know the historical meaning of the word, which Nader was about to share, but Fox News, in typical fashion, cut him off before he could explain it. No sweat for Nader, because I agree with Two Cold Soakers that he probably never should have gone on Fox News in the first place.

Perd Hapley

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Re: Wow! Shepherd Smith vs Ralph Nader, who calls Obama an Uncle Tom
« Reply #9 on: November 06, 2008, 09:01:27 AM »
You guys do know what an "uncle tom" is, right?

Why don't you tell us?  We're so timid, we need your help, you big, strong man. 
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nobody's_hero

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Re: Wow! Shepherd Smith vs Ralph Nader, who calls Obama an Uncle Tom
« Reply #10 on: November 06, 2008, 09:11:51 AM »
Quote
Why don't you tell us?  We're so timid, we need your help, you big, strong man.


Oh please. Be the victim, why don't you?

Click the hyperlink in my last post, and you'll be a big, strong man, too.  ;/

SteveS

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Re: Wow! Shepherd Smith vs Ralph Nader, who calls Obama an Uncle Tom
« Reply #11 on: November 06, 2008, 09:37:29 AM »
Why don't you tell us?  We're so timid, we need your help, you big, strong man. 

Here you go:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncle_tom

 ; )
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K Frame

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Re: Wow! Shepherd Smith vs Ralph Nader, who calls Obama an Uncle Tom
« Reply #12 on: November 06, 2008, 10:02:15 AM »
You guys do know what an "uncle tom" is, right?

NO. I have NO clue!  :rolleyes:

It has the same connotation as calling a black an Oreo or a white person an egg.
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longeyes

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Re: Wow! Shepherd Smith vs Ralph Nader, who calls Obama an Uncle Tom
« Reply #13 on: November 06, 2008, 10:58:07 AM »
He was close, but...

"Uncle Joe" is bound to be more appropriate.
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Dannyboy

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Re: Wow! Shepherd Smith vs Ralph Nader, who calls Obama an Uncle Tom
« Reply #14 on: November 06, 2008, 11:29:51 AM »
Shep Smith probably doesn't know the historical meaning of the word

Considering Sheperd Smith is from Mississippi, I'd bet he has a better understanding of the word and its connotations than you.
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MechAg94

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Re: Wow! Shepherd Smith vs Ralph Nader, who calls Obama an Uncle Tom
« Reply #15 on: November 06, 2008, 02:58:54 PM »
So now that we are about to have a black president shouldn't we all just not worry about this sort of stuff? 
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seeker_two

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Re: Wow! Shepherd Smith vs Ralph Nader, who calls Obama an Uncle Tom
« Reply #16 on: November 06, 2008, 03:06:28 PM »

It has the same connotation as calling a black an Oreo or a white person an egg.

....or a Hispanic person a coconut.....


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Matthew Carberry

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Re: Wow! Shepherd Smith vs Ralph Nader, who calls Obama an Uncle Tom
« Reply #17 on: November 06, 2008, 03:15:10 PM »
My dad is an Uncle Tom.


















I have cousins.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Wow! Shepherd Smith vs Ralph Nader, who calls Obama an Uncle Tom
« Reply #18 on: November 06, 2008, 05:04:15 PM »
Oh please. Be the victim, why don't you?

Click the hyperlink in my last post, and you'll be a big, strong man, too.  ;/


Wow, that video was a really deep and intellectual, four-and-half-minute exercise in failing to distinguish between free speech and common courtesy. 

Anyway, I've read the book, and I actually found Uncle Tom to be a rather inspiring character.  We're still waiting for you to enlighten us about the true meaning of "Uncle Tom."
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Don't care

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Re: Wow! Shepherd Smith vs Ralph Nader, who calls Obama an Uncle Tom
« Reply #19 on: November 06, 2008, 10:11:26 PM »
"Uncle Tom's Cabin" is a serious piece of literature that has had broad connotations since it's publication in 1852.

The character, Tom, is an inspiring character. Though, many people today use the name, "Uncle Tom", as a disparaging term for a black man who is overly eager to please "whitey", one who does "the man's" bidding, or a "sell out" to white people.

The phrase "House *let's not go there*" is one that is generally associated to the character name.

If one takes the time to read the book, one realizes that "Uncle Tom", is not a name that one should use disparage another black man, but is a name worthy of praise.

De Selby

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Re: Wow! Shepherd Smith vs Ralph Nader, who calls Obama an Uncle Tom
« Reply #20 on: November 06, 2008, 10:14:23 PM »
Since we're on the subject, what was inspiring about Uncle Tom's character?  What was it that he did or said that made him worthy of praise?
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Wow! Shepherd Smith vs Ralph Nader, who calls Obama an Uncle Tom
« Reply #21 on: November 06, 2008, 10:59:35 PM »
Did you read the book?  He was a mensch. 
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nobody's_hero

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Re: Wow! Shepherd Smith vs Ralph Nader, who calls Obama an Uncle Tom
« Reply #22 on: November 06, 2008, 11:38:28 PM »
Did you read the book?  He was a mensch. 

I'm glad you read the book—you're in limited company, perhaps. Now if we could get Shepherd Smith to read anything that's not been passed down to him from Murdoch . . . well, that'd be lovely.

So, you'd know that an "uncle tom" is a slave who allows his master to essentially walk all over him and/or those he cares for, usually—as others may perceive it—at the expense of his dignity. You'll also note that this was not a name which originated as a racial phrase used by whites to suppress blacks. It was first-adopted as a derogatory phrase by the black community. You might ask yourself this: Why would a white slave owner during those days degrade a black slave for being obedient to his master? That doesn't make much sense (although does not negate the fact that slave owners were certainly eager to degrade blacks when the did something perceived to be disobedient), and, while I suppose there are cases in which a black man might actually be racist towards other blacks (Clayton Bigsby, anyone?), in the antebellum days, the phrase "uncle tom" was not conceived as a label specifically dependent on race, but rather, a disdainful phrase for someone who doesn't respect themselves enough to stand up and fight for their freedoms, or seek out a better life (underground railroad escape attempts, for example, risky—yet worth the risk to someone who respects the value of freedom). Over time, the use of the phrase "uncle tom" spread (got out-right butchered, rather) to the extent that the people to which it was applied actually began believing that they could not overcome their environments. True, eventually whites began using the phrase as well in the form of unrelenting racial hate speech, and the truly racially-fueled and immoral injustices were born, like the stereotypical era of motion-picture "black-face" actors. Thus, the tools of oppression which still survive in-part to this date were forged—the remnant of which, best summarized, is: the government-fueled general myth that blacks (minorities in general, or, now, anyone of any race, rather) cannot overcome and succeed on their own (this bred the entitlement myth, which the Democrats (and now some Republicans) use to rely on a relatively assured voter-base). Look for this to expand beyond minorities and poor whites to the point of breaking. After it all falls apart, perhaps, the concept of self-determination may return to this country. But the point is: You are only what you consider yourself to be. If you think you are a slave, you are a slave. If you believe you are a free man, then, by God, it is beyond my, or anyone else's, power to make a slave of you. Perhaps if we white folks would stop being so zealously protective of African Americans or other minorities—treating them as though their some fragile bunny rabbit to be fed, petted, and watered—they'd finally empower themselves, and that would truly be something that no one can take away—certainly not by spewing out a few racial slurs, if in fact Nader had done so. ;)

So, fast-forward to election year 2008, and here's the analogy that sailed wide over some heads:

Corrupt/failing corporations with political influence (AIG, GSachs, etc.)  = slave owners of the antebellum era

Government puppets of said corporations (McCain, Obama, Clinton, Bush, etc.) = "uncle toms," pacifist slaves themselves

[sane] American people = slaves who resent the "uncle toms" for bending over and kissing their owners' arses

Racial? Eh, I hope not. That's contrary to what the media would probably prefer you to believe, but I've seen you folks moan and groan [justifiably so, to be clear  :angel:] about all the unwarranted race-card playing that went on during this race (in fact, I can't really even believe I'm debating this with YOU folks, instead of some Obama loons, but unfortunately, we have to wait for them to see that Obama isn’t all he’s cracked up to be). The point that Shepherd Smith missed, either intentionally in an effort to try to ruin Ralph Nader because he got more votes than any other third-party—or maybe Shepherd's just plain stupid—is this:

Nader posed the challenging (or not-so?) question that Obama must now ask of himself: Will I be the president who will put an end to this corrupt, practically incestuous relationship between the federal government and corporations seeking welfare at the expense of the people? OR Will I follow suit of every other "uncle tom" president before me, and bend to the will of the men actually running this plantation called the United States government, rather than heed the will of the people I am supposed to represent?

I am not that naive—All evidence, particularly Obama's past voting records, points to the former, and, by that standard, McCain just as well qualifies to be labeled an "uncle tom," as goes for Bush, or Clinton, or [insert any no-balls politician here]. It's up to Obama whether or not the "shoe fits."—Not Nader. Nader asked a question—no different than if he had gone up to Mr. Obama and asked him if he considers himself a "house-*let's not go there*" or a free man. I should hope that Obama considers himself a free man, though whether or not he considers you and I as free persons, is another story entirely.

This post, of course, assumes the fact that Nader has always made a stand for minorities and low-income families (though, often approaching it from the wrong angles—his calls to raise the minimum wage, for instance, is not going to stop inflation, which is the real reason why those with low incomes—or even middle-incomes—are unable to save their earnings), and speaks out against corporate welfare better than a handful of Republicans who will be cleaning out their desks in the coming months.

[And the Carlos Mencia video was not meant to be "deep or intellectual." It was meant to make a mockery of this thin-skinned attitude that Americans cannot say anything that someone else might perceive to be offensive (regardless of what is considered "common courtesy" or not—some people don't like flag-burning, and some people think it's wrong to criticize the goverment—well, darn, we don't want to offend anybody). In other words, we all could stand to grow a pair. Though, if you ever want someone to cause you to stop and think, comedians are far more useful than politically-correct, agenda-driven distortionist news anchors with bad acting skills (That whole "Shame on you, tisk-tisk, Mr. Nader"? Load. Of. Crap. Shepherd Smith smudged that interview because racism, whether it is actually present or incorrectly perceived to be, causes sensationalism and sensationalism great for ratings—a lesson borrowed from CNN. Worked quite well, unfortunately. ;/).]

nobody's_hero

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Re: Wow! Shepherd Smith vs Ralph Nader, who calls Obama an Uncle Tom
« Reply #23 on: November 06, 2008, 11:41:20 PM »
Considering Sheperd Smith is from Mississippi, I'd bet he has a better understanding of the word and its connotations than you.

I'm from Georgia. I wouldn't know racism if it jumped up and bit me in the face then?

Truth is, I think most folks try terribly hard to over-come it down here, but it is almost as if the rest of the country is just now catching on to it and rekindling the furnaces. Like I said, racism is just great for ratings and all that.

Perd Hapley

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Re: Wow! Shepherd Smith vs Ralph Nader, who calls Obama an Uncle Tom
« Reply #24 on: November 06, 2008, 11:57:15 PM »
Wow, you really did give us a lecture there.  Not that I bothered to read much of it.  A short paragraph or two would have sufficed.

We all know how "Uncle Tom" is used today, and who started using it that way. 

We all know exactly what Nader was trying to say.  And I don't even claim he was being racist in using the term.  But he might have had a little more discretion than to compare the First Red Black President to a slave. 

Were you, by chance, one of these people who didn't see the need for Ron Paul to refuse that white supremacist donation?   =|
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