Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: roo_ster on July 29, 2015, 11:23:23 AM
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http://www.youngcons.com/young-conservative-woman-has-a-message-for-liberals-that-needs-to-go-viral/
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Dead Animal FYI:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3177303/PICTURED-American-dentist-passion-hunting-killed-Cecil-Lion-bow-arrow-Zimbabwe.html
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/jimmy-kimmel-chokes-up-air-811799
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3178135/Protesters-fasten-threats-door-hiding-dentist-paid-55-000-kill-Africa-s-famous-lion-PETA-calls-extradited-charged-preferably-hanged.html
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I noted that the press makes a BIG DEAL that the lion was "beheaded"!!1!
And my only thought was if I'm getting a lion trophy, it better include the head.
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The only thing the dentist did wrong was go to mugabestan and trust people there.
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I often explain to my Sunday School classes that one of the early complaints about Christians was "They are turning the world upside down!"*
They were exactly right. Christianity is almost completely opposite the fallen nature of man. So, when a people (and a nation) prefers their fallen nature, it is, of course, turning the world back "upside down."
It's also how we often seem to be speaking a different language.
*(I would note that Christianity was actually turning an upside down world back rightside up, but of course one who grew up in the upside down world thinks it's now upside down.)
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Hence the expression, "It's a turvey-topsey world."
Oh, wait. Did I get that right?
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Hence the expression, "It's a turvey-topsey world."
Oh, wait. Did I get that right?
What difference, at this point, does it make?
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The only thing the dentist did wrong was go to mugabestan and trust people there.
Meh. You have to be pretty oblivious to think that baiting a lion to come out of a wildlife preserve is a good idea.
Reading between the lines of the liberal mass hysteria versions of the story, it sounds like this dentist may have been a little on the shady side himself when it came to bagging his prize. Something about getting in trouble while bear hunting in the states was mentioned.
There always is that idiot that has to ruin a good thing for everyone else. The chick from, what? last year, now she was a good poster child for trophy hunting in Africa being a good thing.
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Meh. You have to be pretty oblivious to think that baiting a lion to come out of a wildlife preserve is a good idea.
Reading between the lines of the liberal mass hysteria versions of the story, it sounds like this dentist may have been a little on the shady side himself when it came to bagging his prize. Something about getting in trouble while bear hunting in the states was mentioned.
There always is that idiot that has to ruin a good thing for everyone else. The chick from, what? last year, now she was a good poster child for trophy hunting in Africa being a good thing.
On the baiting point, all I've seen is reports that "he baited him to come out of the preserve" and no evidence one way or another as to how that happened.
I'm somewhat guessing the hunter who came into the country only for this hunt hadn't spent time tracking this lion's movements to know when and how to bait him out. IF any baiting was done, I'm guessing it was the locals.
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On the baiting point, all I've seen is reports that "he baited him to come out of the preserve" and no evidence one way or another as to how that happened.
I'm somewhat guessing the hunter who came into the country only for this hunt hadn't spent time tracking this lion's movements to know when and how to bait him out. IF any baiting was done, I'm guessing it was the locals.
They tied a dead something or other to the hood of their jeep and unless they went the long way around so he wouldn't see they were on the edge of the park, he probably knew approximately where they were.
The reports I heard said they tracked the lion on the park and than lured him out.
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Meh. You have to be pretty oblivious to think that baiting a lion to come out of a wildlife preserve is a good idea.
Reading between the lines of the liberal mass hysteria versions of the story, it sounds like this dentist may have been a little on the shady side himself when it came to bagging his prize. Something about getting in trouble while bear hunting in the states was mentioned.
There always is that idiot that has to ruin a good thing for everyone else. The chick from, what? last year, now she was a good poster child for trophy hunting in Africa being a good thing.
Moving to Texas has pretty much disabused me of any huffiness I used to have over hunting methods. "They hunt deer...with dogs!?" "They hunt whatever_critter...at night?!" [Runs for fainting couch.] I was brought up in a different state with different standards of hunting behavior.
They just plain do things differently here, no apologies to the hyperventilating non-Texas Fudds.
My own personal hunting ethics have been pared down to roughly the following:
1. Learn & follow local laws and practices.
2. Leave my huff on my doorstep as I leave home.
3. Get after it.
Getting back to The Great Lion Slaughter of 2015, hunting over bait was a common occurrence in all the safari books I read. Capstick & Rourke come to mind. Most common was hunting over bait for leopard. If hunting lion over bait is not a big whoop in Bungastan or wherever The Lion Saint cashed in his chips, not sure that hunting a lion that does not respect boundaries(1) over bait is any worse.
(1)Texas Property Boundary Quiz:
You start on land you know is private property on which you have permission to hunt.
1. You eventually come a place where bright yellow paint has been applied to the fence posts supporting a 4-wire barbed wire fence. Are you at a property line or not?
2. You eventually come a place where faded purple paint has been applied to the tree trunks here & there. Are you at a property line or not?
The point of the quiz is not about Texas standards for marking property boundaries, but that property boundaries may not be obvious and even if obvious, they may not be understood by a non-local. I suspect African standards for property demarcation might be even less rigorous than those in Texas.
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The issue with the lion hunter is he has a felony record for doing dishonest hunting practices in the past.
I think he moved a bear from one place to another to claim a "legal" kill.
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The issue with the lion hunter is he has a felony record for doing dishonest hunting practices in the past.
I think he moved a bear from one place to another to claim a "legal" kill.
Exactly. Which makes me think that he knew rules where getting broken and he just didn't care.
Rooster, it's not the fact that he was hunting over bait that makes me question his hunting ethics. It's that he's breaking the hunting laws where he is hunting. Or at least knew that he was on they very dark side of a shade of grey.
Personally, I think hunting over bait seems a little shady, but I don't hunt, so I have no real opinion on the subject one way or another. *shrug*
For what it's worth, I support hunting as a food source and a sport and I think responcible hunters do more for conservation than Mother Earth worshiping idiots.
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A co-worker, an admitted liberal and pretty darned anti-gun for a retired Marine, said this, which I thought was pretty accurate...
The guy paid $35,000 to go hunting for lion in a country where that much money is probably several years worth of income for most people. Doesn't that make anyone else think that paying that much meant that he wanted a lion head on his wall, no questions asked?
I agree, he may not have knowingly engaged in an illegal hunt, but he damned sure didn't make certain it was legal.
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A co-worker, an admitted liberal and pretty darned anti-gun for a retired Marine, said this, which I thought was pretty accurate...
The guy paid $35,000 to go hunting for lion in a country where that much money is probably several years worth of income for most people. Doesn't that make anyone else think that paying that much meant that he wanted a lion head on his wall, no questions asked?
I agree, he may not have knowingly engaged in an illegal hunt, but he damned sure didn't make certain it was legal.
$35,000 is probably about what a lion tag costs. edit: it's close http://www.africanskyhunting.co.za/pricelist.html
He probably relied on the local guides or PHs who are supposed to know what is legal and what is not.
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He probably relied on the local guides or PHs who are supposed to know what is legal and what is not.
Yes. Regardless of if he'd done anything illegal in the past, it appears the country with jurisdiction is going after the PH and land owner, and is stating the hunter is not responsible. Interestingly, a US congressional rep has launched an investigation and is looking to (figuratively) hang the hunter.
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At any rate, the OP post stands correct- people are more willing to nitpick and condemn a person for killing an animal than a group of people selling baby parts.
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On the baiting point, all I've seen is reports that "he baited him to come out of the preserve" and no evidence one way or another as to how that happened.
I'm somewhat guessing the hunter who came into the country only for this hunt hadn't spent time tracking this lion's movements to know when and how to bait him out. IF any baiting was done, I'm guessing it was the locals.
Most lions ARE taken over bait. Typically a bait animal is shot, and dragged behind the vehicle to leave a scent trail. The remainder of the bait carcass is then suspended in a tree at a reasonable height so a lion can rear up and feed, without getting TOO high to make feeding too strenuous. The carcass will usually be covered by brush to keep vultures off.
Now, hunting is FREQUENTLY done along park borders. Lions do a LOT of roaming, and eventually, locals will "pattern" them and be able to guess approximately where they'll be. (Give or take a few miles and a few days.) Laying a scent trail and bait - or, usually, several baits - in the general area outside the park's border is SOP. Once the lion finds a bait and keeps feeding, the bait may be "topped off" and a blind will be built nearby so as to give the hunter a good shot at the lion when he's on the bait. Hopefully, he'll come to the bait before shooting light disappears (spotlighting isn't allowed most places) or, failing that, he won't leave before daybreak.
Usually, a game scout accompanies the hunting party . . . to keep violations from occurring. And there are strict quotas on the number of lions that may be taken each year from each area.
Now, unless the scent trail was laid inside the park, or the actual shooting took place with a spotlight after dark, it's really not clear to me from the story how any game hunting violation occurred unless the professional hunters were themselves operating illegally in that hunting block . . . or, it being Mugabestan, maybe they're just trying to retroactively write & apply some arcane new rule.
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At any rate, the OP post stands correct- people are more willing to nitpick and condemn a person for killing an animal than a group of people selling baby parts.
That's because #Black (maned) Lives Matter.
But seriously, I think it's a matter of simplicity. He's a white, wealthy, unethical "hunter" with a shady past who destroyed a popular family-oriented lion who wasn't bothering anybody. Bad guy vs. innocent animal = instant outrage.
Planned Parenthood is a faceless organization that does something that may/may not be illegal in order to help themselves/help others via research using murdered babies/unwanted tissue and...and...(if the confusion, moral muddle & horror start to be too much)...OMG!!!Some scumbag killed that poor lion!!!!
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That's because #Black (maned) Lives Matter.
But seriously, I think it's a matter of simplicity. He's a white, wealthy, unethical "hunter" with a shady past who destroyed a popular family-oriented lion who wasn't bothering anybody. Bad guy vs. innocent animal = instant outrage.
Planned Parenthood is a faceless organization that does something that may/may not be illegal in order to help themselves/help others via research using murdered babies/unwanted tissue and...and...(if the confusion, moral muddle & horror start to be too much)...OMG!!!Some scumbag killed that poor lion!!!!
The speed and frequency of horrible news stories and scandals these days makes it hard to latch on to any story and maintain an outrage over it. I'm not sure that this isn't by design.
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The funny part is all these people getting bent over this lion getting killed then going out for chicken or hamburgers. They are certainly selective about what animals deserve protection.
I did read a book about one Game Guide in Zimbabwe (before hunting was outlawed). He talked about baiting leopard like that. However, he said he personally did not care for hunting predators because they were generally not expecting to be hunted. I think that was his personal view though and didn't stop him from taking customers out to hunt predators.
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The funny part is all these people getting bent over this lion getting killed then going out for chicken or hamburgers. They are certainly selective about what animals deserve protection.
I did read a book about one Game Guide in Zimbabwe (before hunting was outlawed). He talked about baiting leopard like that. However, he said he personally did not care for hunting predators because they were generally not expecting to be hunted. I think that was his personal view though and didn't stop him from taking customers out to hunt predators.
When I took a wildlife biology class a few decades ago, they had a term to describe animals that got the most attention: 'Charismatic Megafauna.'
Public support or outrage over a whale, a Lion, an eagle, or an elephant will be massive in comparison to their actual importance to an ecosystem.
Predators don't expect to be hunted? Poor argument- many predators, especially lions, are hunted and killed by their own species.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NB81Q3_Xs64
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Didn't God say we were to rule over all animals?
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When I took a wildlife biology class a few decades ago, they had a term to describe animals that got the most attention: 'Charismatic Megafauna.'
Public support or outrage over a whale, a Lion, an eagle, or an elephant will be massive in comparison to their actual importance to an ecosystem.
Predators don't expect to be hunted? Poor argument- many predators, especially lions, are hunted and killed by their own species.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NB81Q3_Xs64
Meanwhile the honey bees keep dying and if they all kick it, we're screwed. BUT SAVE THE WHALES!!!
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Meanwhile the honey bees keep dying and if they all kick it, we're screwed. BUT SAVE THE WHALES!!!
Bees are a lot more important than whales in the grand scheme of things!
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When I took a wildlife biology class a few decades ago, they had a term to describe animals that got the most attention: 'Charismatic Megafauna.'
Very popular term in the fed.gov. Wanna get funding? Stick a whale picture on the front cover of your proposal. I on the other hand, always called them bioclutter.
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Didn't God say we were to rule over all animals?
Genesis 1:26 "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth."
Rule, yes. Master, probably (cats say, "yeah, right. Just try it.") But I like to think of this dominion being a form of good stewardship because God has an affinity for shepherds, those who care for and defend animals. =)
It's best to be kind to critters because we're pretty much in the same boat:
Ecclesiastes 3:19
"For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity."
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The lion story.....as far as I'm concerned, it's an internal law enforcement matter in mugabestan. No interest for me at all.
The PP thing is big news.....and the recent judgement to put a gag order on the remaining videos even more so. Makes me wonder how long until we see another Eric Rudolph....and if he'll be considered as evil as Rudolph.
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Everything is just a distraction ;/
Where is the outrage at the absolutely PATHETIC presidential candidate lineup? Is that REALLY REALLY all America has to offer?? :'( :facepalm: [barf]
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He probably relied on the local guides or PHs who are supposed to know what is legal and what is not.
This; how many of us rely on professionals to keep us legal and safe on a daily basis?
If granny's brakes fail a mile after she leaves the shop, and she plows into a school bus, is it really her fault for not putting aside her walker long enough to pull all four wheels off and check the professionals' work?
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The PP thing is big news.....and the recent judgement to put a gag order on the remaining videos even more so. Makes me wonder how long until we see another Eric Rudolph....and if he'll be considered as evil as Rudolph.
Of note, the gag order is temporary and applies to only videos with the Stem Express company. All their other videos are free to be posted.
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The latest video is pretty special. It freaked even me out and I would go to a human sacrifice if it was announced
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Everything is just a distraction ;/
Where is the outrage at the absolutely PATHETIC presidential candidate lineup? Is that REALLY REALLY all America has to offer?? :'( :facepalm: [barf]
Back to the comments several of us have made in the past. Those that would be great at the job know better than to run for the position.
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The latest video is pretty special. It freaked even me out and I would go to a human sacrifice if it was announced
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Link?
I have lost count of videos.
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Regarding the cost of the hunt, my understanding is that premium deer leases here in Texas are getting pretty dang expensive and many require the lease holders to put out feed and protein for the deer. Mostly private land at least around the Houston area and lots of hunters. I can imagine a big game hunt in Africa would be pretty expensive. Not sure what hunting bear and such in the US costs.
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Link?
I have lost count of videos.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/30/politics/planned-parenthood-fourth-video/
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http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/30/politics/planned-parenthood-fourth-video/
I do get really tired of the "journalists" leaving the "it's edited" excuse open. Post the whole damn raw video to YouTube and link it from the edited version so anybody who really wants all the details can go get them, and the guilty parties can't accuse you of cherry picking sound bites from a perfectly innocent situation.
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Per the Center for Medical Progress they have a total of 9 videos. They've released 4, which each one more horrifying then the last.
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As horrifying as what we see is their attitudes are what blows my mind
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As horrifying as what we see is their attitudes are what blows my mind
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Indeed. Especially on the fourth video.
From what I've read, the group has been making the full videos available, so if there are issues with "edited" videos, that's on the leftist journalists and their laziness / unethical behavior.
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In the CNN link, the reporterette clearly shows her bias.
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One thing as a male I need never lose sight of is the reality that a great many women who have made certain choices are very heavily invested in making sure that it's stays acceptable. To allow otherwise would require introspection they are not willing to endure
In pursuit of maintaining their moral status quo convincing other women to make the same choice is a price they are willing to inflict
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I do get really tired of the "journalists" leaving the "it's edited" excuse open. Post the whole damn raw video to YouTube and link it from the edited version so anybody who really wants all the details can go get them, and the guilty parties can't accuse you of cherry picking sound bites from a perfectly innocent situation.
Like Ben said, I have also heard that they've been posting the complete videos along with the edited-for-time videos from the beginning. Otherwise, no one would have an unedited video with which to compare.
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Not sure what hunting bear and such in the US costs.
My outfitter for a MN bear hunt is charging me $900 for the hunt. My Non Resident MN bear tag is $231.
I rented a 3 bedroom cabin which I will share with for people for a week at $110 a night.
$900 gets me: 95% success rate of harvesting active bears at bait stations. The guided hunts include breakfast at a local restaurant. We provide transportation to and from your hunting site. When you harvest a bear we do all the work from tracking, dressing, retrieving, skinning and processing. All you have to do is pose for pictures.
I'd spend at least that much in gas and motels driving 9 hours one way every 3 days to bait, then hope that someone doesn't use my bait station before I get there.
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I can imagine a big game hunt in Africa would be pretty expensive.
I'm probably going to go hunt Africa in the next 5-10 years, I'm not going to do dangerous game, but I should be able to harvest 10-12 plains species w/taxidermy for about $20k from doorstep to doorstep.
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I'm probably going to go hunt Africa in the next 5-10 years, I'm not going to do dangerous game, but I should be able to harvest 10-12 plains species w/taxidermy for about $20k from doorstep to doorstep.
Since you're going, how much would you charge me to bring back some living specimens? I have a list... =D
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Since you're going, how much would you charge me to bring back some living specimens? I have a list... =D
Ever since I went to Africa I've wanted to find a way to bring a Hyena to the dog park for the crazy people to see. =D They are apparently more or less domesticated by some tribes for home defense.
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Since you're going, how much would you charge me to bring back some living specimens? I have a list... =D
Well, I read that Zimbabwe is crating up live elephants and shipping them to China, presumably for zoos . . . maybe there's something there for you.
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Well, it appears Zimbabwe is now seeking extradition. A bit of turnabout from their earlier stance that it's the PH's responsibility to put the client on a legal kill. Looks like they caved to social media, and will apparently have the help of the US government, which seems quite eager to give up a citizen.
Regardless of Palmer's guilt or innocence, it appears his goose is cooked. Not by law, but by the emotions of the masses.
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/08/01/zimbabwe-to-press-for-extradition-hunter-who-killed-cecil-lion/
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Well, it appears Zimbabwe is now seeking extradition. A bit of turnabout from their earlier stance that it's the PH's responsibility to put the client on a legal kill. Looks like they caved to social media, and will apparently have the help of the US government, which seems quite eager to give up a citizen.
Regardless of Palmer's guilt or innocence, it appears his goose is cooked. Not by law, but by the emotions of the masses.
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/08/01/zimbabwe-to-press-for-extradition-hunter-who-killed-cecil-lion/
They smell more money to extort
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They smell more money to extort
That's my thought. I can't believe even this whacked administration would allow him to be put in one of Mugabe's torture chamber prisons. They would happily see him hock everything he owes though, and go into debt for a couple million dollars in "fines" for Zimbabwe's conservation service (which will in reality buy a replacement fleet of luxury cars for Mugabe).
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They smell more money to extort
I wonder whether they thought it up on their own, or if BHO gave them the idea.
I kind of thought big game hunting tours were big business in Africa. Seems really stupid to destroy the whole industry over one case. OTOH, maybe there's more money to be made (by the pols) taking bribes and kickbacks from poachers.
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If the alternative is the Zimbabwe judicial system, I hope the guy runs.
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I wonder whether they thought it up on their own, or if BHO gave them the idea.
I kind of thought big game hunting tours were big business in Africa. Seems really stupid to destroy the whole industry over one case. OTOH, maybe there's more money to be made (by the pols) taking bribes and kickbacks from poachers.
This is africa. If africa had a middle name it would be "stupid". Running off or slaughtering people who want to pay them big bucks or produce something useful on their land is a continental pastime.
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What lion? (http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/africa/what-lion-zimbabweans-see-cecil-s-demise-as-first-world-problem-1.2302206)
Not that it's really a surprise.
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Since you're going, how much would you charge me to bring back some living specimens? I have a list... =D
I'll send you a congress of baboons.
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I'll send you a congress of baboons.
No, send those to D.C.
Can't possibly do a worse job than the baboons we already have.
Plus, CSpan would actually be entertaining television...
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No, send those to D.C.
Can't possibly do a worse job than the baboons we already have.
Plus, CSpan would actually be entertaining television...
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I'm gonna need a bigger gun.......... >:D
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I'm gonna need a bigger gun.......... >:D
Or, you could just stay out of Baltimore . . .
(https://sp.yimg.com/ib/th?id=JN.%2bEJcu3BQnJGVgzYNIvtfIQ&pid=15.1&P=0)
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^^^^ They're like trained apes - without the training =D