Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: Blakenzy on February 08, 2018, 09:26:50 AM
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So I came across this news story and it seems peculiar. A person made a youtube video regarding a hot political topic while in one country's jurisdiction, where it is not a crime to have such opinions or ideas, however distasteful. Then this person visited another country where such ideas are in fact thought crimes and constitute illegal speech. This person was then promptly arrested and imprisoned in this second country after complaints were made by an opposing advocacy group that works in the first country. Those were the events as far as I can tell, no actual illegal speech took place in the second country.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/monika-schaefer-alberta-holocaust-denier-arrested-germany-1.4474400
Now, trying to not get engaged in "that" other particular debate, focusing instead on freedom of speech and jurisdiction issues, how does this work? I mean are thoughts or beliefs contraband? I am intrigued by the far-reaching effects of this.
Another scenario, for example, could people that live in California and use certain drugs that are legal in the State, but illegal under Federal law, be arrested in other jurisdictions for those past deeds if anti-drug advocacy groups in California denounce the person?
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The jurisdictional issue seems like the least problematic part. If you're going to criminalize certain speech, might as well ban speech that is spoken elsewhere but 'broadcast' into your country via the internet - it has the same effect as if it were spoken there. Maybe you go after youtube in that case too since they were part of putting it out there in the country where it's banned.
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That article is pretty light on details, but I noticed this part:
Schaefer was reportedly arrested during a recess in the trial of Sylvia Stolz, a lawyer on trial for Holocaust denial, according to a post on the right wing German blog deutsches-Maedchen.com.
I suspect that when details finally emerge we'll discover that the Canadian woman who was in Germany for the trial of a fellow thinker probably made comments while she was there, and was arrested for that. I suspect that the authorities were watching her very closely due to being tipped off about her beliefs.
But without the German police admitting they arrested her for a video filmed in Canada, I think it's not quite as off the rails as it seems.
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I have read elsewhere that the German government is pretty enthusiastic about going after Holocaust deniers, and if you are one, and happen to end up under German jurisdiction, they can nab you.
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If the US can make you pay taxes on money you earned while working outside of the US, why couldn't Germany arrest you for something you said outside of Germany?
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I have read elsewhere that the German government is pretty enthusiastic about going after Holocaust deniers, and if you are one, and happen to end up under German jurisdiction, they can nab you.
That seems kinda....ahem....fascist.
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If the US can make you pay taxes on money you earned while working outside of the US, why couldn't Germany arrest you for something you said outside of Germany?
Hey, we're all just one big happy family now! Get with the program, it's NEW WORLD ORDER time! [tinfoil] :angel: =D
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I'm surprised the Canadians didn't arrest her.
From 2010: https://www.salon.com/2010/03/22/canada_5/
(Not a fan of Holocaust denial. Big fan of free speech.)
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Another scenario, for example, could people that live in California and use certain drugs that are legal in the State, but illegal under Federal law, be arrested in other jurisdictions for those past deeds if anti-drug advocacy groups in California denounce the person?
No need for that person to travel. Feds could arrest, charge, convict and incarcerate right in CA now. Federal law trumps state law, so the feds, if they decided to, could go to CA, WA, CO, etc and prosecute all the MJ growers, retailers and customers. They have jurisdiction.
Now, if it were, say, Idaho trying to charge someone from Washington State with MJ related crimes for being involved in MJ only while they were in WA, that would probably not pass muster.
However consider that the feds will charge people who have sex with minors while overseas even if it's legal in the country they were visiting, and you have potential precedent to charge under state drug laws too.
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International criminal law can be downright bizarre.
Feds routinely bring criminal charges against people (e.g., drug kingpins) who have never set foot in the USA. Sometimes they even succeed in getting them extradited to face charges in a jurisdiction they've never entered.
Various European courts charge people who've never been there with crimes (e.g., human rights violations) allegedly committed in other countries.
Perhaps the most bizarre example is that Israel tried many Nazis for crimes they committed elsewhere - at a time when Israel didn't even exist!