Palin and Brown

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

Review the quoted portion from you.  I was referring to why she gets so much attention in the media.  Having people spend all day blasting her on television isn't a sign that she's got good prospects for election.

Electable or not, getting blasted in TV is a sign that those blasting her think she's relevant in some capacity.  You don't bother trying to defeat someone that you aren't in competition against.

[sumpnz]

I was referring to why she gets so much attention in the media.  Having people spend all day blasting her on television isn't a sign that she's got good prospects for election.

Yeah, and look at who's doing the blasting.  The most fiercely leftist partisan commentators on MSNBC, CNN, ABC, et al.  That and the occasionaly pseudo-conservative like Kathleen Parker.  If they are to be the sole arbiters of who is worthy to run for political office then we're really screwed.

I'll consider your analysis to have some merit when you demonstrate something other than serial apologia for Muslim extremists and liberal lunatics.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

Heck, the fact that lefties like SS still pan her at every opportunity, more than a year after the election is over and done, means something significant.

[MicroBalrog]

So... again, I have this question. It interests me.

I am sorry if it seems rude, I have no such intent.

Surely, Shootinstudent, you respect - if not conservatives and libertarians, then at least us APS posters.

You know full well I am adequately educated. And so is HTG, and Balog, and Jfruser, and everybody here short of fistful. :D

So, why do we support Palin? What political demands of us freedom-lovers does Palin answer?

Answer that and you will reach the crux of the issue.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

So... again, I have this question. It interests me.

I am sorry if it seems rude, I have no such intent.

Surely, Shootinstudent, you respect - if not conservatives and libertarians, then at least us APS posters.

You know full well I am adequately educated. And so is HTG, and Balog, and Jfruser, and everybody here short of fistful. :D

So, why do we support Palin? What political demands of us freedom-lovers does Palin answer?

Answer that and you will reach the crux of the issue.

Agreed, there is something about Palin that resonates with freedom loving individualists.  Figure that out and you'll grok in fullness.

Actually, I'd suggest that shootinstudent would have better luck approaching the problem from the other direction.  If he can pin down why he and the other leftie statist types feel a compulsion to attack her at every turn, that will also lead to the crux of the issue.  The reason we like her is the same reason they despise her.

So, why do you folks need to attack her so heavily?

[Perd Hapley]

Having people spend all day blasting her on television isn't a sign that she's got good prospects for election.

I don't think you understand American politics very well.  Getting "blasted" by the media, for many of us, looks very good on a policritter's resume.  In fact, I don't think I would have much respect for a candidate that wasn't "blasted."

Of course, I seem to remember that you thought Obama's skin color would make it harder for him so this is a bit of a pattern with you.   

[Fjolnirsson]

I forget who said it, but , "Judge me not by my friends, but by my enemies". Palin has some GREAT enemies.

[De Selby]

Wait a second here, there are two issues on the table being confused:

1. Does Palin have policies that are sound, and should she be supported based on our agenda?

Under this category, I can see why APSers and conservatives like her.  She is pro-gun.  She is in touch with everyday people.  I myself have commented favourably on her populist credentials here. 

But then there's that other issue, which is:

2. Does Palin have a reasonable prospect of success outside the realm of APS, ie, in the United States nationally?

This answer is obviously no.  Most people were put off by her terrible interviews.  I think it's safe to say most people were not impressed by her resignation as governor.  It's also a fairly safe bet that most people do not consider being a fox news anchor to be a plus when presidential campaign season rolls around.

Again, having her attacked in the media means only one thing: that attacks on Palin generate ratings.  There is no basis for any other conclusion.  Dennis Kucinich gets media attention pretty frequently as well; so does Al Sharpton.  Does that mean either of those two guys is realistically on the path  to the oval office?

I'm drawing a distinction between her own policies and capabilities as a manager/administrator, versus her complete lack of ability to run a successful national campaign.  I can see why some might think she'd be a great leader, but I honestly cannot see how anyone can call her campaigning (again, different business to leading) a success.

That is why she won't be elected - you need to be a great campaigner to win the presidency. 

[Balog]

There is no one on this earth who could've looked good on those hack job "interviews" they did to Palin. Note I say "did to" not "did with." If Obama had received ¹/₁₀₀ the vicious attacks Palin did, he'd be famous as the Presidential candidate who had a massive sobbing panic attack on teevee. The fact that SS was A. manipulated by the blatant propaganda & B. thinks everyone else must have been to is rather telling imho.

Palin isn't perfect, and she's made some risky choices. Maybe they'll pay off, maybe they won't. But anyone so massively hated by the propaganda wing of the DNC is someone I would support in a heartbeat.

[MicroBalrog]

Shootinstudent, do you know me to support candidates for office based on the mainstream's expectation of their 'electability'?

[De Selby]

Shootinstudent, do you know me to support candidates for office based on the mainstream's expectation of their 'electability'?

No.  And certainly I don't support policies on the basis of their realistic prospects for adoption by any politician.

What I'm seeing here, though, is this denial that Palin could possibly make a false move on the campaign trail.  It's a bit surprising to see folks talking about how taking a job as a fox news anchor is a great plan for becoming president. 

I'm saying, whatever you think of her policies, it's obvious that she is not capable of delivering on a presidential campaign.  Sad that the system works that way, but we don't need to love it to acknowledge that it does.

[Perd Hapley]

Wait a second here, there are two issues on the table being confused:

1. Does Palin have policies that are sound, and should she be supported based on our agenda?

2. Does Palin have a reasonable prospect of success outside the realm of APS, ie, in the United States nationally? 

Oh dear.  This means that every conversation about Palin will be like a Ron Paul thread.  Crap.

[RocketMan]

Well, based on SS' evaluation, I guess we had better forget about Palin.  She will never be electable.
She can never learn to present herself better while being interviewed in the media.  She can never polish her delivery and improve her debating skills.  She can never improve her general knowledge of history or American politics.  She is forever stuck where she is, finished as a politician, unelectable to any higher office.
Thanks, SS.  What a relief. Now I can move on.

[Monkeyleg]

Shootinstudent, instead of getting people to agree with you about Palin, your posts seem to be having the effect of making people dig in their heels for her.

Too bad for the mainstream media's sake that they don't see that.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

No.  And certainly I don't support policies on the basis of their realistic prospects for adoption by any politician.

What I'm seeing here, though, is this denial that Palin could possibly make a false move on the campaign trail.  It's a bit surprising to see folks talking about how taking a job as a fox news anchor is a great plan for becoming president.  

Who has denied that she could make a blunder during an election campaign?  

Campaigns are weird things.  Elaborate, complex, lots of people,  much planning and strategy, high stakes and strong emotions and personal investment.  An election campaign is a lot like a military campaign in that regard.  And like a military campaign, mistakes will happen, probably with some frequency.

Anyone can make a blunder on a campaign.  Everyone does.  Every time.

I'm saying, whatever you think of her policies, it's obvious that she is not capable of delivering on a presidential campaign.  Sad that the system works that way, but we don't need to love it to acknowledge that it does.

Obvious based on what?  She delivered more for McCain's campaign than McCain did, and more than most veep candidates ever do.

McCain's campaign was run by McCain and his people, according to their ideas and strategies (most of which were pretty dumb).  McCain and Palin both made blunders (see above), but it's not reasonable to claim his blunders were hers.  McCain lost that election, not Palin.

It's interesting to compare what happened to McCain and Palin since the election.  A year later Palin is as popular as ever, we're all still talking about her, buying her book, following her moves closely, discussing it and analyzing it, and she's still as worrisome to our opposition as she's ever been.  McCain has fallen of the map and is at risk for losing in the primaries next year.  Tell me again which of these people can't deliver on the national scene?

[sumpnz]

No.  And certainly I don't support policies on the basis of their realistic prospects for adoption by any politician.

What I'm seeing here, though, is this denial that Palin could possibly make a false move on the campaign trail.  It's a bit surprising to see folks talking about how taking a job as a fox news anchor is a great plan for becoming president.  

I'm saying, whatever you think of her policies, it's obvious that she is not capable of delivering on a presidential campaign.  Sad that the system works that way, but we don't need to love it to acknowledge that it does.

Heard many of Obamesiah early interviews (or heck, recent ones lacking in teleprompter assistance)?  He made Palin's interview with Couric look like brilliance.  

And who here has said she can't make a mistake?  The way the interviews with Couric and Gibson were clearly handled poorly, though I put more of that blame on McCain than Palin.  They darn well should have known what those two would do and insisted on a live interview only.  When it's live it's a lot harder to do such a hatchet job.

Was resigning from the governor's office a mistake in terms of her political future?  Maybe.  But she was being financially ruined by the frivolous ethics lawsuits being filed almost weekly.  A quirk of the laws in AK meant she had to personally pay for her defense, and she couldn't not defend herself.  If a single one of those suits had a shred of merit, I'd say she deserved such a fate.  But not a single one was shown to be with even the tiniest amount of merit.

And what's wrong with going to Fox?  In order for her to be acceptable as a presidential candidate does she have to become Rachel Maddow's girlfriend at MSNBC, or Wolf Blitzer's beard vacuumer at CNN?  You do realize that Fox gets more viewers than all the rest of the networks combined during prime time news hours.  The people that don't like Fox, and view that as a downside for her wouldn't vote for her anyway.

[Waitone]

nd what's wrong with going to Fox?  In order for her to be acceptable as a presidential candidate does she have to become Rachel Maddow's girlfriend at MSNBC, or Wolf Blitzer's beard vacuumer at CNN?  You do realize that Fox gets more viewers than all the rest of the networks combined during prime time news hours.  The people that don't like Fox, and view that as a downside for her wouldn't vote for her anyway.

Nothing wrong with going to FOX.  In fact it may have demonstrated advanced long-term, strategic thinking.  Yeah, she gets weekly access to conservatives of all stripes.  But more to the point, what better way to learn to deal with media scum than to become one of 'em.  She suffered mightily at the hands to Big Media (as well as McCain's media poobah's, as an aside) to an extent unknown by political predecessors except maybe Dan Quayle.  Through it all her popularity if anything increased.  So now she is in the process of becoming a national figure.  One component of a strategy is how to tame a hostile media.  I think her move to become one of them and learn the system from the inside out is classic.  Then there is the added feature of becoming one of Roger Ailes' products.  Let us not forget that it was Roger Ailes who masterminded Richard Nixon's media strategy as he headed for the White House.  So with one decision she is in the process of nullifying the impact of those who seek her destruction and put herself into the hands of a proven media guru on the national stage.  Doesn't strike me as a particularly stupid move.

That said, she is a politician just like Brown.  The Prime Directive in dealing with politicians is never, ever believe their words.  Always believe their deeds.  Both Palin and Brown just committed a deed that needs to be watched.  That is campaigning for McCain in Arizona.  It may be innocent inside politics backscratching or it may be something worse.  In any case both figures merit continued observation.

[sumpnz]

That last post was directed at SS.  Otherwise, I'm with you 100%.  If campaigning for McCain in AZ right now is the worst of her sins going forward I'll still vote for her in 2012.  If it becomes the least of her sins, well, that's a different story.

[Monkeyleg]

There's a code in politics that says you don't turn your back on people who've helped you. Palin is helping McCain, but I don't know to what extent. What I can almost guarantee is that her trustworthiness amongst other politicos would have been weakened if she hadn't.

I had a small taste of that experience several years ago in giving one letter of support to a squishy Republican majority leader who had done everything she promised to advance CCW in the state senate, but then was facing a more conservative candidate in the primary. Giving her that one time support was viewed by others in the legislature as the right thing to do.

[Balog]

Given the "57 states" and all the other gaffes the current occupants of the White House made, I don't think a bad interview or two means anything. And given the success of a man who's highest qualifications prior to governship were making movies co-starring chimps...

Basically, the MSM hates Palin. If people respected the MSM that might mean something, but the very viciousness and irrationality of their attacks lose them credibility every day.