Author Topic: Health Care Passes in House 220-215  (Read 30932 times)

Ben

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Health Care Passes in House 220-215
« on: November 07, 2009, 11:27:20 PM »
Title says it all. Apparently one Republican broke ranks and voted for it. One step closer to Communism.
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

Balog

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Re: Health Care Passes in House 220-215
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2009, 11:30:18 PM »
Which "Republican"?  :mad:

Also, we are so screwed...
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Monkeyleg

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Re: Health Care Passes in House 220-215
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2009, 11:33:18 PM »
Joseph Cao of Louisiana.

Time to keep pressure on the senators.

Balog

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Re: Health Care Passes in House 220-215
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2009, 11:40:00 PM »
LA... figures. Time to write the senators again, not that it'll do much good in WA.  :mad:
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I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

Quote from: Standing Wolf
If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

Boomhauer

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Re: Health Care Passes in House 220-215
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2009, 11:48:20 PM »
Boned, we are.

As far as SC goes, DeMint will vote against it, and I think Lindsay Graham might (but I don't trust him one whit...one of the RHINOs he is).

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Holy hell. It's like giving a loaded gun to a chimpanzee...

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the last thing you need is rabies. You're already angry enough as it is.

OTOH, there wouldn't be a tweeker left in Georgia...

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RoadKingLarry

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Re: Health Care Passes in House 220-215
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2009, 11:49:35 PM »
Any tally on who did and didn't vote for it. My congressman is Boren, the lone Dem from Oklahoma.

ETA
OK, found it

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2009/roll887.xml#N

 :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
« Last Edit: November 07, 2009, 11:58:46 PM by RoadKingLarry »
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Sindawe

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Re: Health Care Passes in House 220-215
« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2009, 11:58:06 PM »


Quote
Any tally on who did and didn't vote for it.

Yes.  Your representative voted Nay.  Unlike the leftist [CENSORED] from my district.

Remember this night when you next go to the polls.

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2009/roll887.xml

http://www.house.gov/house/MemberWWW_by_State.shtml#co

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Standing Wolf

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Re: Health Care Passes in House 220-215
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2009, 12:07:15 AM »
Quote
One step closer to Communism.

Sorry, but we're now trillions of small steps closer to Lenin's dream and America's nightmare.
No tyrant should ever be allowed to die of natural causes.

Ben

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Re: Health Care Passes in House 220-215
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2009, 12:08:54 AM »
There is always the hope for a constitutional challenge due to the fine / imprisonment clause for not carrying insurance.

Never in the history of the United States has citizenship been conditional upon forced purchase of any good or service. I think someone could make a good case.
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

MicroBalrog

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Re: Health Care Passes in House 220-215
« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2009, 04:08:46 AM »
So wait, wait.

Just how big is this bill?

I've heard about a 900-billion price tag. Is this per year? Per decade? Just how big is this thing, compared to the scale of Social Security and Medicare?

Is there a public option in the final version of the bill?

Inquiring minds want to know.
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Lennyjoe

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Re: Health Care Passes in House 220-215
« Reply #10 on: November 08, 2009, 07:29:05 AM »
Words cannot portray my true emotions at this time.  :mad:

makattak

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Re: Health Care Passes in House 220-215
« Reply #11 on: November 08, 2009, 07:57:11 AM »
So wait, wait.

Just how big is this bill?

OVER 2,000 pages
I've heard about a 900-billion price tag. Is this per year? Per decade? Just how big is this thing, compared to the scale of Social Security and Medicare?

Actually it's up to 1.1 trillion over 10 years. Not yet as big as Social Security or Medicare, but just pushing us closer to the day it all crumbles like a house of cards.
Is there a public option in the final version of the bill?

Nooooooo... it's not a public option! It's an exchange, administered and supported by the government that will keep the insurers "honest" with REAL competition.

Because, of course, having the government decide what is a "fair" price is the BEST way to make the market function. After all, just look at the gas price controls in the 70's! People could FINALLY afford gas!

Inquiring minds want to know.

Anymore, I'm wishing I didn't know. Maybe I could just be oblivious till it all fell apart.

Let's hope the Senate can stop this monstrosity. We only have to hold out for 1 year and 2 months.

Never thought I'd say this, but it looks like the fate of our country rests with Joe Lieberman. (And, of course, keeping the RINO's from stabbing this country in the back.)

Edit: somehow put 1,000 instead of 2,000


« Last Edit: November 08, 2009, 11:16:22 PM by makattak »
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So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

Viking

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Re: Health Care Passes in House 220-215
« Reply #12 on: November 08, 2009, 08:12:01 AM »
Because, of course, having the government decide what is a "fair" price is the BEST way to make the market function. After all, just look at the gas price controls in the 70's! People could FINALLY afford gas!
You mean that they could afford as much gasoline as they ever wanted, provided that there actually were any gasoline to be had?
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Waitone

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Re: Health Care Passes in House 220-215
« Reply #13 on: November 08, 2009, 08:38:24 AM »
Democrats now gorge on the trough of hard left money.  Those slopping the hogs demand hard left results for their hard left money.  Pelosi et al just delivered. 
"Men, it has been well said, think in herds. It will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one."
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Nick1911

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Re: Health Care Passes in House 220-215
« Reply #14 on: November 08, 2009, 08:42:59 AM »
What bothers me most is that we, Americans as a whole, elected these people.  It's not like this was some hidden agenda.

We Americans deserve exactly the mess we're left with.

De Selby

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Re: Health Care Passes in House 220-215
« Reply #15 on: November 08, 2009, 08:48:34 AM »
This Bill is basically a gift to the insurance industry.  That's why they aren't running ads 24/7 to oppose it.

In other news, spending five minutes in the emergency room before being declared dead is billed at about $30,000 in Sacramento, CA.

It'd be nice if there were some effort to make the costs of health care correspond at least roughly to the services and outcomes.  But that would mean cutting enormous profits out of the insurance and health services business, which I doubt any political party is going to do in the near future.
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Harold Tuttle

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Re: Health Care Passes in House 220-215
« Reply #16 on: November 08, 2009, 10:42:32 AM »
welcome to a 17 percent tax on your income and the pillory if you don't have insurance to deduct on your 1040
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Harold Tuttle

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Re: Health Care Passes in House 220-215
« Reply #17 on: November 08, 2009, 10:50:42 AM »
What the Pelosi Health-Care Bill Really Says

Here are some important passages in the 2,000 page legislation.

By BETSY MCCAUGHEY

The health bill that House Speaker Nancy Pelosi is bringing to a vote (H.R. 3962) is 1,990 pages. Here are some of the details you need to know.

What the government will require you to do:

• Sec. 202 (p. 91-92) of the bill requires you to enroll in a "qualified plan." If you get your insurance at work, your employer will have a "grace period" to switch you to a "qualified plan," meaning a plan designed by the Secretary of Health and Human Services. If you buy your own insurance, there's no grace period. You'll have to enroll in a qualified plan as soon as any term in your contract changes, such as the co-pay, deductible or benefit.

• Sec. 224 (p. 118) provides that 18 months after the bill becomes law, the Secretary of Health and Human Services will decide what a "qualified plan" covers and how much you'll be legally required to pay for it. That's like a banker telling you to sign the loan agreement now, then filling in the interest rate and repayment terms 18 months later.


On Nov. 2, the Congressional Budget Office estimated what the plans will likely cost. An individual earning $44,000 before taxes who purchases his own insurance will have to pay a $5,300 premium and an estimated $2,000 in out-of-pocket expenses, for a total of $7,300 a year, which is 17% of his pre-tax income. A family earning $102,100 a year before taxes will have to pay a $15,000 premium plus an estimated $5,300 out-of-pocket, for a $20,300 total, or 20% of its pre-tax income. Individuals and families earning less than these amounts will be eligible for subsidies paid directly to their insurer.

• Sec. 303 (pp. 167-168) makes it clear that, although the "qualified plan" is not yet designed, it will be of the "one size fits all" variety. The bill claims to offer choice—basic, enhanced and premium levels—but the benefits are the same. Only the co-pays and deductibles differ. You will have to enroll in the same plan, whether the government is paying for it or you and your employer are footing the bill.

• Sec. 59b (pp. 297-299) says that when you file your taxes, you must include proof that you are in a qualified plan. If not, you will be fined thousands of dollars. Illegal immigrants are exempt from this requirement.

• Sec. 412 (p. 272) says that employers must provide a "qualified plan" for their employees and pay 72.5% of the cost, and a smaller share of family coverage, or incur an 8% payroll tax. Small businesses, with payrolls from $500,000 to $750,000, are fined less.

Eviscerating Medicare:

In addition to reducing future Medicare funding by an estimated $500 billion, the bill fundamentally changes how Medicare pays doctors and hospitals, permitting the government to dictate treatment decisions.

• Sec. 1302 (pp. 672-692) moves Medicare from a fee-for-service payment system, in which patients choose which doctors to see and doctors are paid for each service they provide, toward what's called a "medical home."

The medical home is this decade's version of HMO-restrictions on care. A primary-care provider manages access to costly specialists and diagnostic tests for a flat monthly fee. The bill specifies that patients may have to settle for a nurse practitioner rather than a physician as the primary-care provider. Medical homes begin with demonstration projects, but the HHS secretary is authorized to "disseminate this approach rapidly on a national basis."

A December 2008 Congressional Budget Office report noted that "medical homes" were likely to resemble the unpopular gatekeepers of 20 years ago if cost control was a priority.

• Sec. 1114 (pp. 391-393) replaces physicians with physician assistants in overseeing care for hospice patients.

• Secs. 1158-1160 (pp. 499-520) initiates programs to reduce payments for patient care to what it costs in the lowest cost regions of the country. This will reduce payments for care (and by implication the standard of care) for hospital patients in higher cost areas such as New York and Florida.

• Sec. 1161 (pp. 520-545) cuts payments to Medicare Advantage plans (used by 20% of seniors). Advantage plans have warned this will result in reductions in optional benefits such as vision and dental care.

• Sec. 1402 (p. 756) says that the results of comparative effectiveness research conducted by the government will be delivered to doctors electronically to guide their use of "medical items and services."

Questionable Priorities:

While the bill will slash Medicare funding, it will also direct billions of dollars to numerous inner-city social work and diversity programs with vague standards of accountability.

• Sec. 399V (p. 1422) provides for grants to community "entities" with no required qualifications except having "documented community activity and experience with community healthcare workers" to "educate, guide, and provide experiential learning opportunities" aimed at drug abuse, poor nutrition, smoking and obesity. "Each community health worker program receiving funds under the grant will provide services in the cultural context most appropriate for the individual served by the program."

These programs will "enhance the capacity of individuals to utilize health services and health related social services under Federal, State and local programs by assisting individuals in establishing eligibility . . . and in receiving services and other benefits" including transportation and translation services.

• Sec. 222 (p. 617) provides reimbursement for culturally and linguistically appropriate services. This program will train health-care workers to inform Medicare beneficiaries of their "right" to have an interpreter at all times and with no co-pays for language services.

• Secs. 2521 and 2533 (pp. 1379 and 1437) establishes racial and ethnic preferences in awarding grants for training nurses and creating secondary-school health science programs. For example, grants for nursing schools should "give preference to programs that provide for improving the diversity of new nurse graduates to reflect changes in the demographics of the patient population." And secondary-school grants should go to schools "graduating students from disadvantaged backgrounds including racial and ethnic minorities."

• Sec. 305 (p. 189) Provides for automatic Medicaid enrollment of newborns who do not otherwise have insurance.

For the text of the bill with page numbers, see www.defendyourhealthcare.us.


http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704795604574519671055918380.html#printMode
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Monkeyleg

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Re: Health Care Passes in House 220-215
« Reply #18 on: November 08, 2009, 11:10:28 AM »
Quote
This Bill is basically a gift to the insurance industry.  That's why they aren't running ads 24/7 to oppose it.

The insurance companies were against it until Obama offered up the notion of mandating insurance for everyone. Now young people who don't usually need health insurance are required by law to buy it. Because they're buying it to subsidize the costs of health care for older people, the premiums will be higher than they've been in the past for young people.

I wonder if the young voters who turned out for Obama understand this, or care?

After the vote, Nancy Pelosi compared the health care bill to two other great achievements of the US government, Social Security and Medicare. That's reassuring.  :O

Waitone

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Re: Health Care Passes in House 220-215
« Reply #19 on: November 08, 2009, 12:08:44 PM »
Dick Morris has relevant information at to why certain groups supported ObamaCare. 

http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/healthcare/66717-obamacare-endorsements-what-the-bribe-was?page=2#comments
Quote

ObamaCare endorsements: What the bribe was
By Dick Morris - 11/06/09 11:22 AM ET

By Dick Morris and Eileen McGann

As the suicidal Democratic congressmen proceed to rubber-stamp the Obama healthcare reform despite the drubbing their party took in the ’09 elections, the president trotted out the endorsements of the AMA and the AARP to stimulate support. But these — and the other endorsements — his package has received are all bought and paid for. Here are the deals:

· The American Medical Association (AMA) was facing a 21 percent cut in physicians’ reimbursements under the current law. Obama promised to kill the cut if they backed his bill. The cuts are the fruit of a law requiring annual 5-6 percent reductions in doctor reimbursements for treating Medicare patients. Bravely, each year Congress has rolled the cuts over, suspending them but not repealing them. So each year, the accumulated cuts threaten doctors. By now, they have risen to 21 percent. With this blackmail leverage, Obama compelled the AMA to support his bill … or else!

· The AARP got a financial windfall in return for its support of the healthcare bill. Over the past decade, the AARP has morphed from an advocacy group to an insurance company (through its subsidiary company). It is one of the main suppliers of Medi-gap insurance, a high-cost, privately purchased coverage that picks up where Medicare leaves off. But President Bush-43 passed the Medicare Advantage program, which offered a subsidized, lower-cost alternative to Medi-gap. Under Medicare Advantage, the elderly get all the extra coverage they need plus coordinated, well-managed care, usually by the same physician. So more than 10 million seniors went with Medicare Advantage, cutting into AARP Medi-gap revenues.

Presto! Obama solved their problem. He eliminates subsidies for Medicare Advantage. The elderly will have to pay more for coverage under Medigap, but the AARP — which supposedly represents them — will make more money. (If this galls you, join the American Seniors Association, the alternative group; contact sbarton@americanseniors.org This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it .)

· The drug industry backed ObamaCare and, in return, got a 10-year limit of $80 billion on cuts in prescription drug costs. (A drop in the bucket of their almost $3 trillion projected cost over the next decade.) They also got administration assurances that it will continue to bar lower-cost Canadian drugs from coming into the U.S. All it had to do was put its formidable advertising budget at the disposal of the administration.

· Insurance companies got access to 40 million potential new customers. But when the Senate Finance Committee lowered the fine that would be imposed on those who don’t buy insurance from $3,500 to $1,500, the insurance companies jumped ship and now oppose the bill, albeit for the worst of motives.

The only industry that refused to knuckle under was the medical device makers. They stood for principle and wouldn’t go along with Obama’s blackmail. So the Senate Finance Committee retaliated by imposing a tax on medical devices such as automated wheelchairs, pacemakers, arterial stents, prosthetic limbs, artificial knees and hips and other necessary accoutrements of healthcare.

So these endorsements are not freely given, but bought and paid for by an administration that is intent on passing its program at any cost.
Why do I keep having thoughts of Italian style fascism dance in my head? 

"Men, it has been well said, think in herds. It will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one."
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"Our society is run by insane people for insane objectives. I think we're being run by maniacs for maniacal ends and I think I'm liable to be put away as insane for expressing that. That's what's insane about it." - John Lennon

RocketMan

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Re: Health Care Passes in House 220-215
« Reply #20 on: November 08, 2009, 01:02:37 PM »
I believe that our glorious Senate will take heart from the passage of this bill in the House of Representatives and pass their own version very soon.

This nation is truly and completely hosed.
If there really was intelligent life on other planets, we'd be sending them foreign aid.

Conservatives see George Orwell's "1984" as a cautionary tale.  Progressives view it as a "how to" manual.

My wife often says to me, "You are evil and must be destroyed." She may be right.

Liberals believe one should never let reason, logic and facts get in the way of a good emotional argument.

PTK

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Re: Health Care Passes in House 220-215
« Reply #21 on: November 08, 2009, 01:20:49 PM »
.....huh. As pointed out previously, I wasn't aware that purchasing goods or services could be made mandatory in this country.  ???
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Re: Health Care Passes in House 220-215
« Reply #22 on: November 08, 2009, 01:27:58 PM »
You've never been cited for lack of auto insurance?  ???
Quote
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RocketMan

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Re: Health Care Passes in House 220-215
« Reply #23 on: November 08, 2009, 01:29:38 PM »
.....huh. As pointed out previously, I wasn't aware that purchasing goods or services could be made mandatory in this country.  ???

It is unconstitutional.  However, when has the Constitution ever been an impediment to our government?
What frightens me is some of the previous decisions made by our SCOTUS declaring constitutional things that are blatantly not.  Think Kelo and McCain-Feingold.  Given that track record, I am not holding my breath about the outcome should this ever come before the Court for review.
If there really was intelligent life on other planets, we'd be sending them foreign aid.

Conservatives see George Orwell's "1984" as a cautionary tale.  Progressives view it as a "how to" manual.

My wife often says to me, "You are evil and must be destroyed." She may be right.

Liberals believe one should never let reason, logic and facts get in the way of a good emotional argument.

RocketMan

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Re: Health Care Passes in House 220-215
« Reply #24 on: November 08, 2009, 01:30:28 PM »
You've never been cited for lack of auto insurance?  ???

Faulty comparison.  Think "right" versus "priviledge".
« Last Edit: November 08, 2009, 01:35:41 PM by RocketMan »
If there really was intelligent life on other planets, we'd be sending them foreign aid.

Conservatives see George Orwell's "1984" as a cautionary tale.  Progressives view it as a "how to" manual.

My wife often says to me, "You are evil and must be destroyed." She may be right.

Liberals believe one should never let reason, logic and facts get in the way of a good emotional argument.