Freddy Gray, the fellow that they are destroying Baltimore for: His Rap Sheet

[Northwoods]

Does not matter if he was beat during arrest or not. When you seize someone you assume responsibility for their safety. Goes with the badge. If you can't handle that, Burger King is hiring.

The officers involved are responsible.

Yep.  Those cops need to go down for at least voluntary manslaughter, if not 2nd/3rd degree murder.

[zxcvbob]

Yes and yes. I fully support harsh punishments for bad cops as well as shooting looters on sight.

Isn't the operating theory that he was put unsecured into a van then brake checked causing him to slide head first into the divider and cause the injuries?

I suggested that earlier.  I haven't seen it in the news anywhere, but I haven't been looking today.  The police chief (commissioner?) admitted that Gray wasn't secured in the back of the van.  (the union is pissed about him saying that)  The brake-checking just fits, and if CSD's thing about recent neck surgery is true, that supports the theory.

[Cliffh]

The thought comes to mind that the recent incidents may go a long way toward accomplishing what more civilized people have been trying to do for years: get the police to stop with the unnecessary roughness. The problem has been that civilized people address such abuses of authority in court, and the cops and the municipalities don't pay any penalty -- any settlement comes from insurance.

A few more incidents like Ferguson and Baltimore, and maybe some police departments will start to realize that actions have consequences.





Nah ... wishful thinking, at best.

Mentioned that to DW this afternoon.  

One can hope.

But I'm not betting on it.

[wmenorr67]

In one video I saw it appeared that the officers were all but dragging Gray to the van as opposed to helping him walk.

[Balog]

Even the most ardent police supporter has to admit that Baltimore PD is one of the more corrupt and violent departments in the nation. They rank right up there with Chicago PD, who hired active gang members and had off duty cops pulling armed robberies. Crips/Bloods/NoI/BGF vs B'more PD is truly an example of when retards collide and one can only hope casualties are high on both sides.

[RoadKingLarry]

DOJ gets all up in the Ferguson Police Dept's business over some fairly trivial stuff meanwhile Baltimore is hemorrhaging taxpayer dollars paying off police brutality lawsuits.
I'm thinking The Baltimore city government as well as the Maryland state government needs a giant enema.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/baltimore-city/bs-md-gray-police-lawsuits-20150422-story.html#page=1

In the last two weeks, for example, the city's spending board approved two settlements totaling $255,000. One lawsuit was filed by the estate of a man shot and killed by police in 2012. The other was filed by a man who said he incurred more than $55,000 in medical and dental expenses after being punched by an officer in 2011.

Overall, the city has paid roughly $6.3 million since 2011 to settle police-misconduct claims, according to a Baltimore Sun review of city and court records.

[roo_ster]

Does not matter if he was beat during arrest or not. When you seize someone you assume responsibility for their safety. Goes with the badge. If you can't handle that, Burger King is hiring.

The officers involved are responsible.

This.

If Gray did have surgery and that was a contributing factor, it might mitigate punishment.

[Jamisjockey]

Well there is that pesky story about his spinal surgery prior to going walkabout


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Which would make it easy for them to injure or kill him after roughing him up.  A practice you've plainly and openly supported on this board.
The police are not judges, juries nor executioners.  They are arresting witnesses to crimes and nothing more.

There is no justification to burn loot and riot.  But there is also no justification to leave an un-belted, handcuffed suspect on the floor of a paddy wagon and intentionally take hard turns, stops and bumps to rough him up.

There is plenty of wrong to go around.

[Battle Monkey of Zardoz]

I don't think his surgery, if true, has any bearing to mitigate anything. Fact:  if the officers involved hand not come into his life that day he might be alive. The only factor that should come into play on criminal charges is BPDs history of doing this "rough ride" thing. Fire a few officer, put them in prison to experience their own rough rides.

[roo_ster]

I don't think his surgery, if true, has any bearing to mitigate anything. Fact:  if the officers involved hand not come into his life that day he might be alive. The only factor that should come into play on criminal charges is BPDs history of doing this "rough ride" thing. Fire a few officer, put them in prison to experience their own rough rides.

I do think is has some weight.  Oh, I still think there should be serious repercussions, but Gray might very well have sustained injuries even if BPD followed proper procedures.  If the surgery bit is true, Gray has some responsibility for going out and slinging dope instead of taking a load off until fully healed.

Approved police techniques for subduing an unwilling suspect pretty much assume someone of sound body.  As do "unapproved police techniques."  If BPD engaged in the latter, Gray's condition would be less of a mitigating circumstance I'd think.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

This rough van ride thing, is it common in Baltimore?  And how often does it result in death?

[Battle Monkey of Zardoz]

Why was he arrested?  From info I am reading, the arrest may not have been lawful.

[vaskidmark]

Why was he arrested?  From info I am reading, the arrest may not have been lawful.

He made "eye contact" with a cop, then when the cop said/did something he ran away.  When they caught him he had what MD considers a switchblade on him.

stay safe.

[agricola]

TBH i was surprised about the amount of space in the back of one of Baltimores prisoner transport vans:



this is the back of one of the vans over on this side of the pond:

[Andiron]

I think Scout26 called it.  There are legitimate ways of voicing your displeasure.  I don't care how egregious the police were,  looting and burning half of town isn't how you respond.  In Baltimore's case,  I'd even thrown them a bone if it was limited to torching police cars.  At least that would show consistency.    Walgreen's didn't kill your homey.

 They're turning this into a license to act like savages every time some *expletive deleted*hole tries to grab a cop's gun and gets killed for the sheer stupidity of the act.

[Battle Monkey of Zardoz]

If this is true. The "pre existing spinal injury" is bull *expletive deleted*it rumor.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/bs-md-gray-settlement-20150429-story.html

[lupinus]

I do think is has some weight.  Oh, I still think there should be serious repercussions, but Gray might very well have sustained injuries even if BPD followed proper procedures.  If the surgery bit is true, Gray has some responsibility for going out and slinging dope instead of taking a load off until fully healed.

Approved police techniques for subduing an unwilling suspect pretty much assume someone of sound body.  As do "unapproved police techniques."  If BPD engaged in the latter, Gray's condition would be less of a mitigating circumstance I'd think.

I disagree. If he was properly handled his existing injury/surgical site wouldn't have been affected. Opting to go out and sling dope, leading to an arrest, is 100% irrelevant unless he was injured while resisting arrest. IMO it has no baring at all if excessive force was used or he was purposely roughed up.

At the same time, there is likewise no excuse for those who are rioting. Folk robbing, slashing fire hoses, burning cars and buildings, etc.? I'm fine with shooting them on site. When the evidence is there that the cops killed him, and nothing is done about it? Then by all means tar and feather the pricks responsible, but don't *expletive deleted*ck up other folks *expletive deleted*it.

[BlueStarLizzard]

I think Scout26 called it.  There are legitimate ways of voicing your displeasure.  I don't care how egregious the police were,  looting and burning half of town isn't how you respond.  In Baltimore's case,  I'd even thrown them a bone if it was limited to torching police cars.  At least that would show consistency.    Walgreen's didn't kill your homey.

 They're turning this into a license to act like savages every time some *expletive deleted*hole tries to grab a cop's gun and gets killed for the sheer stupidity of the act.

Pretty much my line of thought.

There is a meme running around referencing the Boston Tea Party, which annoys the crap out of me. If they were specifically targeting police, that meme would be appropriate, but they aren't. They are burning down CVS.

[roo_ster]

I disagree. If he was properly handled his existing injury/surgical site wouldn't have been affected. Opting to go out and sling dope, leading to an arrest, is 100% irrelevant unless he was injured while resisting arrest. IMO it has no baring at all if excessive force was used or he was purposely roughed up.

At the same time, there is likewise no excuse for those who are rioting. Folk robbing, slashing fire hoses, burning cars and buildings, etc.? I'm fine with shooting them on site. When the evidence is there that the cops killed him, and nothing is done about it? Then by all means tar and feather the pricks responsible, but don't *expletive deleted*ck up other folks *expletive deleted*it.

Have you ever seen resisting folk taken down or taken someone down your own self?  It can be quite...vigorous.  If someone has a pre-existing injury, it can easily be exacerbated by perfectly legal and reasonable methods.  If one is injured, it is wise not to resist.  

Hell, anyone who has played contact sports could figure out that much.

[vaskidmark]

I misremember the proper legal concept name, but essentially it runs that one must, unless there is prior knowlege, take a person they assault (or arrest) as they appear at that time.

You can't see my CHF or host of arythmia issues.  About all you can see is my shape and that I use a cane.  Kind of limits my ability to sue cops (or anybody else) for exacerbated injury isues.

stay safe.

[vaskidmark]

From a WaPo article http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/crime/prisoner-in-van-said-freddie-gray-was-banging-against-the-walls-during-ride/2015/04/29/56d7da10-eec6-11e4-8666-a1d756d0218e_story.html?hpid=z1 saying that a prisoner on the other side of the transport van heard what sounded like Freddie banging his head.



Apparently not committing a crime is dependent on not suffering the consequences of commiting a crime.

 

stay safe.

[vaskidmark]

Instapundit cites a couple of articles that blame everybody but the rioters:

http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-blue-city-model-1430263661

The Wall Street Journal has an excellent editorial today, explaining how the Baltimore riots demonstrate the utter failure of progressivism in urban America:

The men and women in charge have been Democrats, and their governing ideas are “progressive.” This model, with its reliance on government and public unions, has dominated urban America as once-vibrant cities such as Baltimore became shells of their former selves. In 1960 Baltimore was America’s sixth largest city with 940,000 people. It has since shed nearly a third of its population and today isn’t in the top 25.

The dysfunctions of the blue-city model are many, but the main failures are three: high crime, low economic growth and failing public schools that serve primarily as jobs programs for teachers and administrators rather than places of learning.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/04/28/baltimore-is-a-democrat-problem-not-americas-problem/

Exactly.  John Nolte over at Breitbart has a similar take:

Baltimore is not America’s problem or shame. That failed city is solely and completely a Democrat problem. Like many failed cities, Detroit comes to mind, and every city besieged recently by rioting, Democrats and their union pals have had carte blanche to inflict their ideas and policies on Baltimore since 1967, the last time there was a Republican Mayor. . . .

Liberalism and all the toxic government dependence and cronyism and union corruption and failed schools that comes along with it, has run amok in Baltimore for a half-century, and that is Baltimore’s problem. . . .

Poverty has nothing to do with it. This madness and chaos and anarchy is a Democrat-driven culture that starts at the top with a racially-divisive White House heartbreakingly effective at ginning up hate and violence.

Nolte’s right:  The rioting in Ferguson and Baltimore isn’t driven by poverty, race, or even police brutality.  It’s driven by progressive culture, which teaches that successful business people “didn’t build that,” accepts abortion/divorce/children out of wedlock as normal behavior, proclaims that poor children (particularly minorities) cannot succeed, that police and authority in general are the “enemy,” and that law is rigged against minorities.  Urban music, “leaders” like Al Sharpton, and a Democrat strategy of balkanizing Americans through identity politics–echoed daily by mainstream media–has created a culture that has no respect for the rule of law.  In the eyes of progressives, the American Dream is dead, and they are literally dancing on its grave.

Until this progressive culture changes (if it ever can) or is marginalized politically, we will have lawless behavior every time these destructive, sociopathic cultural expectations are reinforced by tragedies like the deaths of Michael Brown or Freddie Gray.

stay safe.

[wmenorr67]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/04/30/report-freddie-gray-may-have-intentionally-tried-to-injure-self-in-police-van/

Freddie Gray, whose death triggered Monday’s rioting in Baltimore, may have intentionally tried to injure himself in a police van, according to another prisoner in the vehicle, the Washington Post reported late Wednesday night.

The Post said the unidentified prisoner, who was separated from Gray by a metal partition and could not see him, reportedly said he heard Gray “banging himself against the walls” and believed he “was intentionally trying to injure himself."

Be very interesting if this turns out to be true.  Also it has been mentioned that the "full" report may not be released.

[Scout26]

Even the most ardent police supporter has to admit that Baltimore PD is one of the more corrupt and violent departments in the nation. They rank right up there with Chicago PD, who hired active gang members and had off duty cops pulling armed robberies. Crips/Bloods/NoI/BGF vs B'more PD is truly an example of when retards collide and one can only hope casualties are high on both sides.

CS&D's first attempt has proven to be untrue, but don't worry, he keep making up stuff trying to show that BPD is all sweetness and light just like NOPD, CPD, NYPD and other big blue city police departments....

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

CS&D's first attempt has proven to be untrue, but don't worry, he keep making up stuff trying to show that BPD is all sweetness and light just like NOPD, CPD, NYPD and other big blue city police departments....

Seriously?