Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: Hawkmoon on August 11, 2020, 11:10:22 PM
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This is a general question, covering everything from the least expensive econo-boxes to top tier luxury cars, pickups, and SUVs:
How many new cars today come with a security system standard from the factory? Of those that do, how many systems include an engine immobilizer function?
Do all new GM vehicles have On-Star?
Yes, I should know ... but I haven't paid any attention to new vehicles since I ordered my 2000 Jeep Cherokee in the fall of 1999. Didn't need to, because the Cherokee is still serving me well.
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Most vehicles I can think of come with some type of rudimentary anti-theft system as part of their base package. Sophistication goes up as higher level option packages are selected.
It's almost by default any more since keyswitch assemblies no longer simply provide a connection from battery to starter solenoid. Everything runs through the engine management system, even starter motor run commands. All the key does is tick a microswitch which tells the computer you want the engine started. The computer engages a whole host runtime and accessory system checks, including things like "Is the key actually inserted or present in the vehicle?" before the actual starter motor is engaged.
Brad
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I guess it was a dealer add-on, but I got a lo-jack system put in also. I think the Onstar stuff does that also.
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All the key does is
Is anything still coming with keys? Even base model loaners I've had when my vehicles are serviced have push button start. Same with rentals I've used over the past couple of years.
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This is a general question, covering everything from the least expensive econo-boxes to top tier luxury cars, pickups, and SUVs:
How many new cars today come with a security system standard from the factory? Of those that do, how many systems include an engine immobilizer function?
Do all new GM vehicles have On-Star?
Yes, I should know ... but I haven't paid any attention to new vehicles since I ordered my 2000 Jeep Cherokee in the fall of 1999. Didn't need to, because the Cherokee is still serving me well.
Both the 2003 and the 2007 Focuses (Foci?) sitting in my driveway have this feature so it's not exactly a new one.
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Is anything still coming with keys? Even base model loaners I've had when my vehicles are serviced have push button start. Same with rentals I've used over the past couple of years.
Depends on the model. My 2019 XLT-trim F150 has a physical key but there is an option for push button start. I think the Lariat trim (next level up for those unaware) has push button start as a standard feature.
Brad
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Pretty much everything these days will have a key controlled immobilizer system.
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My 2015 wrangler has a regular key with built in fob. On the rare occasion I'll brain fart and use the mechanical key and open the door with out hitting the button on the fob and it sets off an alarm.
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I know someone with a GM car with On-Star whose battery kept dying. Turned out the On-Star system was trying to transmit even when the car was off, when On-Star was supposed to shut off. This someone wasn't using On-Star, so the solution was to pull the On-Star fuse. Problem solved.
Apparently, a lot of GM cars have, or had, a problem with it.
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I've got an '18 Colorado. Has a fob for locking and unlocking the doors, but uses a key.
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Is anything still coming with keys? Even base model loaners I've had when my vehicles are serviced have push button start. Same with rentals I've used over the past couple of years.
Chuckle, chuckle. Lost an "extra" key for '97 Subie, decided to replace it. (Without an "extra" key you don't have an "extra" key, right?)
Went to Subie dealer. decided to get two JIC (Just In Case). Handed them my registration, they checked the pattern from the VIN, and ten minutes later I walked out with two "extras."
Eight bucks apiece. Apiece, mind you.
Theft? A '97 Subaru with > 230K on it?
Chuckle, chuckle.
I'm not signing this one so nobody can say I'm virtue signaling.
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I used to get flyers from car dealers with "fake keys" stuck to them as some kind of promo deal.
Abut half of them would work in what ever it was I was driving at the time, I think it was my '97 Dodge truck, some would just open the door, a few would work in the ignition. I also had a few that would open the doors on my '00 Astro work van.
:facepalm:
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Most vehicles I can think of come with some type of rudimentary anti-theft system as part of their base package. Sophistication goes up as higher level option packages are selected.
It's almost by default any more since keyswitch assemblies no longer simply provide a connection from battery to starter solenoid. Everything runs through the engine management system, even starter motor run commands. All the key does is tick a microswitch which tells the computer you want the engine started. The computer engages a whole host runtime and accessory system checks, including things like "Is the key actually inserted or present in the vehicle?" before the actual starter motor is engaged.
Brad said it well. That is a good answer to the fairly generic question posed.
Is there a specific car you'd like to know more about Hawkmoon; or is this more of a general knowledge kind of thing?
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Brad said it well. That is a good answer to the fairly generic question posed.
Is there a specific car you'd like to know more about Hawkmoon; or is this more of a general knowledge kind of thing?
I'm looking for a general sense of where the auto industry is vis-a-vis security systems.
I learned something completely unexpected today: Volkswagen uses OnStar, and has been doing so since around 2003. I had no idea that GM had licensed OnStar outside of their own corporate empire.
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We put telematics on just about every piece of construction equipment these days. It’s installed from the factory in most cases but we also have kits we can add our version to other brands or retrofit older equipment. Tracks location, hours, usage (I.e. working or idling and profiles of such) and fault codes.
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Chuckle, chuckle. Lost an "extra" key for '97 Subie, decided to replace it. (Without an "extra" key you don't have an "extra" key, right?)
Went to Subie dealer. decided to get two JIC (Just In Case). Handed them my registration, they checked the pattern from the VIN, and ten minutes later I walked out with two "extras."
Eight bucks apiece. Apiece, mind you.
Theft? A '97 Subaru with > 230K on it?
Chuckle, chuckle.
I'm not signing this one so nobody can say I'm virtue signaling.
Nice. The 2015 I'm driving now? It has the integrated key/fob in one big head key...
When I bought it, the previous owners turned in one key with it. How in the holy hell do you lose the second key AND the goddamned valet key after having driven it fewer than 35,000 miles?
Replacement key, with cutting and programming? $250. :O
Local locksmith shop promises to "Save you lots and lots of money on replacement keys!"
Their price? $230.
FMTT...
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When I bought it, the previous owners turned in one key with it.
I wonder how true that is. I can't think of any reason for a used car dealer to keep the extra key, but the last two used cars I bought from a dealer didn't have a spare key. One of those cars was less than a year old and had only 1700 miles on it. The car was very well cared for, so I doubt the owner lost a key.
Since I already have a mistrust of car dealers, I have a suspicion that they keep the spare key for some reason.
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I can't see why they would, and you'd think that if it were a common thing a LOT of people would be complaining about not getting two keys with the car.
I've bought 4 Subarus, 3 from one well regarded dealer and the current one from another well-regarded dealer.
The first one I got 2 standard keys.
Second one I got 2 standard keys, the valet key, AND the key code identity charm.
Third one I got 2 standard keys.
All of those were traded in with exactly what came to me.
This one, though, just one key. I complained about it and they said that's all it came in with.
My guess? The husband (or wife) brought the car in to trade and the wife (or husband) either couldn't find her key or was too lazy to look for it. No one carries the valet key (don't even know why they include them) so it's probably hanging on a hook in their house somewhere.
Idiots.
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When I bought my current car, it only came with one key. The dealer apologized profusely that they only had the one, ordered me my second FOB, and mailed it to my house. Another dealer near me programed it for free while I waited.
Certified Pre-Owned is apparently guaranteed two FOBs.
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A single key isn't surprising. A lot of people trade cars on a whim, meaning the only key they have is the one in their pocket. That, or they just don't keep up with stuff enough to know where the spare key eventually landed.
Brad
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I'm not surprised, considering the number of people I have seen that have no more than one key for anything that requires one.
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When I bought my current car, it only came with one key. The dealer apologized profusely that they only had the one, ordered me my second FOB, and mailed it to my house. Another dealer near me programed it for free while I waited.
Certified Pre-Owned is apparently guaranteed two FOBs.
I was really trying to get them to throw in a key with the purchase, but I'd already banged them so hard on the price that they weren't interested... :rofl:
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A single key isn't surprising. A lot of people trade cars on a whim, meaning the only key they have is the one in their pocket. That, or they just don't keep up with stuff enough to know where the spare key eventually landed.
Brad
Bingo. I bought my 2015 Wrangler on an impulsive visit just to kick tires for fun. Traded in my 2005 Ram on the spot, only had the 1 key on me. Never opted to run 25 miles back to the dealership just to deliver the spare key. I think it's still in my box-o-keys here at home.
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Reading through this thread, I'm surprised there hasn't been a general outcry about the cost of these keys.
I guess money isn't all that valuable nowadays.
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Reading through this thread, I'm surprised there hasn't been a general outcry about the cost of these keys.
I guess money isn't all that valuable nowadays.
It sounds like most people don't care about a spare key. I do want a spare key for all of my cars, so I make sure to get one when I buy the car or I'll sell some plasma to buy a new key.
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Reading through this thread, I'm surprised there hasn't been a general outcry about the cost of these keys.
I guess money isn't all that valuable nowadays.
Oh trust me, I cried out quite loudly when I found out it was going to be 250 bucks for a second one!
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Oh trust me, I cried out quite loudly when I found out it was going to be 250 bucks for a second one!
$375 for a BMW from the dealer. E-keys for cars was $50 more.
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It sounds like most people don't care about a spare key. I do want a spare key for all of my cars, so I make sure to get one when I buy the car or I'll sell some plasma to buy a new key.
Don't you have a Model 3? They unlock with an app on the phone.
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For some cars you can get a new key cylinder with two keys for less than one key from a dealer. Only problem is you still need the original key to unlock the door. Or make sure your keyfob never dies.
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Don't you have a Model 3? They unlock with an app on the phone.
Yes on both counts. They also have physical keys the size and shape of a credit card.
I also have two other cars that use fobs and I just sold a fob-using BMW. That beemer was the one that needed a $375 spare fob.
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My CPO from my previous post was a 335i.
Now I'm even happier they gave me a second key.
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<sarcasm>
So now I guess after the crooks dope out 157 ways to get around all this electronic security stuff, the next security breakthrough will involve small metallic things you stick in a hole which have precut patterns in them to match your car's pattern.
</sarcasm>
I'm not signing this one so nobody can accuse me of being sarcastic.
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It sounds like most people don't care about a spare key. I do want a spare key for all of my cars, so I make sure to get one when I buy the car or I'll sell some plasma to buy a new key.
Whose plasma? :police:
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Whose plasma? :police:
Don't ask, don't tell.