Hitting the silver ceiling

[Nathaniel Firethorn]

Hi, all,

I've been in the computer business since NAND gates came two to a circuit board. But that doesn't make me worthless -- I can hold my own in any computer technology necessary, given the time and resources to learn it. I've made it pretty far and done a lot of things. Fer instance, I'm working right now on the innards of a VOIP softswitch.

My present work environment has deteriorated to the point that it's affecting my family as well as just me. I need to jump off.

I'm getting interviews but no offers. Maybe it's a skills mismatch. Maybe it's the silver ceiling.

Anyone else here ever suspect that they're hitting it? If so, what did you do about it?

Thanks,
- NF

[charby]

I like my job but the money isn't the greatest, I have applied at a lot of places and had a few interviews and like you no offers. I'm just trying to get an offer so I can get a decent raise at my current job. They will do a reasonable job of retaining employees, if you are offered a similar job for more $$.

I think the problem is that most jobs I have seen require almost no experience and the pay reflects it, some want specified skills i.e. programmers or they are shunned by folks with a lot of experience.

Is there a university or college near you? Start applying with them, I work for a univ, great work environment with killer benefits, just salary isn't the greatest.

Charby

[Felonious Monk/Fignozzle]

I think the problem is that most jobs I have seen require almost no experience and the pay reflects it, some want specified skills i.e. programmers or they are shunned by folks with a lot of experience.

Charby

NF, Charby and I have discussed a little of this in the past.  I see an awful lot of VERY application-specific or skill-specific jobs out there.  I think my difficulty lies in a lack of ANY certifications, although I've been in the field for close to 7 years now.  All the family obligations, plus a full-time job, make it difficult to pursue those.

Have you spoken to a Career Counsellor? Some are 'posers', but there are legitimate folks out there, even Tech-specific ones, that can offer advice on cleaning up resumes, presenting yourself in an interview, and so on.  
If you have time, you can avail yourself of some of the resources on Computerjobs.com, etc.  Oh, there are online places that will review your resume for free (you send it and schedule a phone call w/a rep), they WILL try to sell you a better, more thorough 'tweak', but just to get a feel for any major snafus, it's worth the time.

Wishing you the best,
Fig

[Waitone]

You betchya sweet kester there is a silver ceiling.  It kicks in about 50 though in some disciplines you see it around 48.  Causes are numerous.  Indirect cost of employment for example health insurance costs are one.  Social security contributions are a factor also.  A mature worker is more expensive in an environment of unrelenting cost pressures.  The feeling the mature worker may not be up to snuff technically is another factor.

Age discrimination is illegal but it is rampant.  Lots of techniques are used to get around the charges but rest assured you will be weeded out on the basis of your age.  Recruiters will be polite and non-committal and spend no time on your resume.  Another tactic is to do an initial collection of resumes for a position and include a few mature candidates.  First pass discussions with the hiring authority will clarify the profile they really want-expect to see characteristics like "adaptable" or "flexible" or "open to change" or "willing to do whatever is necessary."  Bottom line expect to be culled from the pool.

Career counselor's are nice and polite in taking your money.  They will do a good job teaching you how to find a job and how to market yourself, all valuable skills.  But the bottom line is you will have to sell around your age.  Irritating, maddening, enraging, short sighted, but reality.

Bottom line?  If you are indeed in or around the age I've discussed your chances of working for someone else in a new job are minimal.  Your best chance for it to occur is if you know someone of influence in another company who can exert some influence in the hiring process.  It happens more than you think.

Thinking about lowering your salary requirements?  Don't bother.  "First decent job that comes along, he's gone. . . "

I'm not being cynical.  I'm being realistic.  Good luck.

[Standing Wolf]

One strategy for dealing with the silver ceiling is self-employment.

[Sylvilagus Aquaticus]

I agree with SW.

I've been a contractor more than I've been a perm employee over the last 15 years. Currently I'm contracted to one of the global providers supporting the kernel portion of their premium operating system product, and it's the second time around there for me, the first time supporting the Big Iron hardware that runs on that OS.  I'm currently in the middle of interviews for a perm position on the team I'm working on. It'd be more money- how much, I don't exactly know, but I do pretty good in my opinion now.  SWMBO has insurance bennies on me, so healthcare isn't a huge concern for me right now, but trust me, I'm doing my part to bankrupt BCBS of Texas with my monthly meds, which run about $10k per month (that's not a typo).  My manager knows this- I was very up front about my medical condition when I was hired on as a contractor. Besides, it makes his EOE paperwork look better to have me on board.

I'm damned good at my job. I know more than 98% of anyone who works on this OS platform. I know the hardware inside and out. I know what works, how it works, and more importantly, why it works.  I have headhunters calling and emailing almost daily trying to steal me away- I had to silence my phone last week while interviewing with my manager for the perm position, which was fun . He knows I'm in demand- all of us on the team are.  Perot Systems called me at WORK today asking if I was interested in talking to them! Geez.

I'm 47 now.  I work with a guy who retired from the Company a few years ago with 29 years.  He's back as a contractor, making a little less than he was when he was a 'real employee', but he's older than I and is definitely running into that silver ceiling. He gets a few interviews , but no followups, probably because of attitude and disposition as much as anything.

Lately they've been bringing older field guys into the office and setting them up to do tech/phone support, so the office if getting grayer. I rather enjoy it.  I'd say the average age of my group is on the far side of 35 or so.   We've got folks in our division who are old enough to collect SS and they're usually the ones I spend time discussing odd problems with rather than my 28 year old backend and 32 year old team lead.

My suggestion?
Work on your 'bleeding edge' skills.  VOIP is cool stuff. It'll be around a long time.  Keep updating your skill sets. Learning is a continuum, not a goal.

By the way, ComputerJobs.com is a fairly good place to stick your resume. Most of my really good leads came from Dice.com.  I never got anything worthwhile off Monster.com- mostly calls from disreputable hip-pocket H1B contract weasels that want me to work a 3-6 month contract job for significantly less than I make now, and always halfway across the country in some pit of a town- without a per diem or housing allowance.

Regards,
Rabbit.

[Nathaniel Firethorn]

VOIP is cool stuff.

Maybe, but making it work right is like pushing a rope. Especially when users are doing things like unplugging phones in the middle of calls... There are a couple of companies in my local area that are doing VOIP things -- I intend to go check them out.

I never got anything worthwhile off Monster.com- mostly calls from disreputable hip-pocket H1B contract weasels that want me to work a 3-6 month contract job for significantly less than I make now, and always halfway across the country in some pit of a town- without a per diem or housing allowance.

Pretty much the same experience, though there is the occasional nugget there.

- NF

[Vodka7]

Lie about your age.

My father's in a somewhat related field (software consultant) and no company in the last five years has any idea when he actually was born, graduated from college, or had kids.  The last time he was job searching he kept a folder full of resumes so when he had callbacks and interviews he'd know exactly what lies he had told what companies.

He says the hardest part is remembering not to tell any stories about Vietnam

[Sylvilagus Aquaticus]

I decided to remove all my educational background from my resumes earlier this year.  Yes, I have the transcripts and diplomas to back it all up... if anyone ever asked, which they haven't.

It just made things easier to not have to explain the diversity.

It did seem to increase the number of calls and emails significantly when I was looking for something new, oddly enough.


Regards,
Rabbit.

[Nathaniel Firethorn]

Anyone who sees me will know that I'm not 29 anymore. (Let's just say that I refuse to use Grecian Formula.)

If they want to eliminate me because of age, I'd rather that happen before I waste time on an interview. Plus lying gets you off to the wrong start -- and it's not what Aslan would want.

- NF

[Waitone]

There is a good chance you will get a face interview.  The company will simply add you to their EEO statistics.  You still are out of the running but you feel better because you got the interview.

[MillCreek]

I decided to remove all my educational background from my resumes earlier this year.  Yes, I have the transcripts and diplomas to back it all up... if anyone ever asked, which they haven't.

I did some intereviewing and hiring earlier this year, and I was interested to see how many resumes list degrees/colleges but omit the year of graduation.  I asked my head of HR about this, and she said this is increasingly common, and is done by applicants so that you cannot tell on paper how old the person is, lest they get 'screened out' for being 'too old'.  I thought this was odd, insofar as I work as a healthcare administrator, and for many healthcare positions, you want the older and more experienced employees.