I just left the Republican party

[Perd Hapley]

I'm curious, Mr. Antibubba, what bothers you about the Constitution party?  I have mixed feelings about them.

[SkunkApe]

SkunkApe,

And the Dems have a better track record??

Of course not.  Theirs is worse.

[The Rabbi]

Show me a Republican like Reagan who is running for President, and he'll have my vote.

You miss the point.
Candidates dont just happen.  Reagan didnt just happen.  He could not have gotten nominated, much less elected, without strong backing by conservatiives within the party, probably holdovers from the Goldwater era.
If real conservatives leave the party then it will just allow the RINOs to have free reign.  Why do you think the Democratic Party has sunk the way it has?  In earlier days they had fine politicians (Humphrey comes to mind, as does Scoop Jackson and Pat Moynihan).  You might disagree with their policies but they had as much integrity as anyone.  But in those days the Southern Democrats exerted a moderating influence and helped squelch the whackos.  When the Southern Dems switched allegiance to the Republican Party all that went out the window and the unions and radicals could nominate whomever they wanted.

[K Frame]

"I've met a lot of members of the LP, and do you know what?  Most of them are ***holes!"

I thought I was the only one who thought that.

[Antibubba]

Fistful, the Constitution Party's emphasis on Christianity as the bedrock for running a government is alarming for a Jew who understands history.  And no what what the speaker wants you to hear, "Judeo-Christian Values" is code for "Christian Values"; you'll never hear those words spoken by a Jew.

[Guest]

"I've met a lot of members of the LP, and do you know what?  Most of them are ***holes!"

I thought I was the only one who thought that.

I didnt want to be the first to say it...

Maybe its just the people who feel the need to ANNOUNCE their party affiliation publically at times when the context makes no sense at all.

-Sir that will be $5

-five DOLLARS! thats highway robbery.

- $5 please...

-... IMA Libertarian!!!!!!!

If you worked retail for more than a year (or really even a summer if you live in a big enough city) you have had that conversation.

[The Rabbi]

Fistful, the Constitution Party's emphasis on Christianity as the bedrock for running a government is alarming for a Jew who understands history.  And no what what the speaker wants you to hear, "Judeo-Christian Values" is code for "Christian Values"; you'll never hear those words spoken by a Jew.

Kind of true.  But for those of us with values more in line with right-wing Christianity than with socialism/atheism those words are not alarming at all.  Rather welcoming actually.

[Strings]

>Kind of true.  But for those of us with values more in line with right-wing Christianity than with socialism/atheism those words are not alarming at all.  Rather welcoming actually.<

And for those of us NOT in line with neither "right-wing Christianity" nor "socialism/atheism", they're dreadful...

[The Rabbi]

I believe there is an either/or.  There is no third way.

[griz]

Can you expand that a little? I would think Buddhism for instance would not fall under either category.

[Strings]

>I believe there is an either/or.  There is no third way.<

Wow... an attitude THAT narrow-minded I never would have expected from ya, Rabbi...

 So my "pagan/libertarianism" would actually be what, then? I'm really curious on this. Since, by your own statement, we have a binary choice of "consevative/Christian" and "socialist/atheist", which would I fit under?

[Chris Rhines]

Wow... an attitude THAT narrow-minded I never would have expected from ya, Rabbi...

Sarcasm, perhaps?  

- Chris

[Perd Hapley]

So, the way you guys are reading RABBI's comments is that we are either Christians or atheists.  

Rabbis are Jewish aren't they?

[Strings]

the values that many (if not most) Christians hold dear, while not ALWAYS different from mine, DO have some wild divergences. Rabbi essentially stated that values fall into one of two categories, neither of which (IMHO) fit my beliefs...

And no, I wasn't being sarcastic. I was being serious as the proverbial crutch...

[The Rabbi]

I dont know enough Buddhism to comment on it.
Modern paganism is merely a dressed up atheism.  So I guess that is where it fits.

[Stand_watie]

I think you're looking for the Anarchist Party, if there is one

I don't know know if there is one or not - I'd think that a true anarchist would actually just be a really extreme libertarian, but so far all I've met are socialists who are looking for something with a trendier name than 'socialist'. When they say "anarchist' they really mean "I like to throw rocks at cops if they're guarding a n  IMF convention, but if they're guarding an abortion clinic I think they're pretty cool."

I'm a libertarian who votes republican unless there is a chance in hell of the libertarian candidate winnning, or if it's a local election here in east Texas, where frequently democrats are just as conservative as republicans.

[Strings]

>Modern paganism is merely a dressed up atheism.  So I guess that is where it fits.<

Cool. That statement is so full of arrogance, it boggles my mind. Just a suggestion, Rabbi: I won't tell you what Judaism is, you don't tell me what Paganism is. I haven't studied your faith (beyond some history, which mainly consists of "this people did that to the Jews"), and you OBVIOUSLY haven't studied Paganism (which is actually a VERY generic term, far more loose in definition than "Christian"). Sound like a fair deal?


 Parties... I don't follow any particular party. Closest I come is Libertarian, but only in local elections. Otherwise, I try to pay attention to somone's record or stated stance on the issues...

[The Rabbi]

Cool. That statement is so full of arrogance, it boggles my mind. Just a suggestion, Rabbi: I won't tell you what Judaism is, you don't tell me what Paganism is. I haven't studied your faith (beyond some history, which mainly consists of "this people did that to the Jews"), and you OBVIOUSLY haven't studied Paganism (which is actually a VERY generic term, far more loose in definition than "Christian"). Sound like a fair deal?

i.e. I really have nothing to say to counter this argument.

[Strings]

"Hey! I'm gonna insult your faith! Then you get to try and rebut it!"

What kinda garbage is THAT? But ok... we'll play by your rules...

>Modern paganism is merely a dressed up atheism.  So I guess that is where it fits.<

Atheism:Atheism is the ontological position that contrasts with theism, including both the view of those without belief in the existence of deities, and the view of those who actively deny such entities exist. (from Wikipedia)
 
 Uhh... nope. Pagans DO believe in the existance of deities. We have many different names for them, and many different views on how they interact with us, but we DO believe in 'em. We even make offerings to 'em, thank them for blessings, invite them into our lives...

 Now, going back to the usually accepted version of the rules: YOU made a statement, you get to back it up. I'd REALLY like to hear how you came up with "Paganism=dressed up atheism".

[grampster]

er, umm, cough, ahem...how did leaving the Republican party devolve/evolve into a scuffle about religion, faith, belief or lack of same?  It's actually kind of amusing to watch threads veer into faith and morals. heh.  It happens a lot doesn't it?   I guess it shows, mebbe, that faith and belief is a basis for, well, most everything?

If Lawdog was here he'd say... "Sigh, that's it!  Here we are in my god is better than your God land again.  This thread is closed!!  heh.

[Strings]

Actually, I wouldn't characterize it as "My god is better than your god". It's more a "I have a god, and you don't, regardless of what you say you believe". Unless Rabbi is using a MUCH different definition for "atheist" than any *I* have ever heard...

 As for how it veered: someone mentioned the Constitution part, and the comment was made about their heavy Christian lean. Not that big a leap, from "I'm leaving the Repubs" to religion...

[Antibubba]

Actually, Rabbi, in my college days I started to look into wicca, and I discover-much to my surprise-that the qualities I found there were all the ones I had enjoyed as I grew up Jewish.  Ritual, holidays that celebrate over food, but especially the sense of immanence, the reawakening of the knowledge that G-d is everywhere, all around.  Three years of Hillel is more than enough to crush anyone's spirit, but thanks to the insights of a gay witch, I found my way home.

And most Wiccans have a very strong sense of karma and justice.  And to bring this back around, yes, I've met a good number of neopagans who were Libertarians.  And yes, some of them were ***holes.   :

[Strings]

well yeah... there are sphincters in any group. And the more vocal about it (especially in politics), the sphincter-like they seem to be...

[The Rabbi]

The Torah speaks about a kind of idol worship called "Baal Peor."  It is very unspecific but our sages in the Talmud discuss it.  Apparantly the mode of worship was to go before the idol and defecate in front of it.
A modern rabbi (r' Chaim Shmulevitz for anyone interested) asks what kind of religion is this, to commit the ultimate insult to your deity?  He answers that what is actually celebrated is the freedom to do whatever you want, unrestrained by social convention or religious stricture. This is the religion of Baal Peor.

[Strings]

ok... and your point there? I think it's lacking something, if it's meant as an explanation for your previous statement...