An interesting perspective on saving yourself for marriage

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

The article smells bogus to me. 

Christians and feminists don't see the world in the same way.  Obviously.  The author claims to be (or have been) a devout Baptist church goer, but she doesn't talk or think like a churchgoer.  She talks & thinks like a feminist who doesn't really understand church teachings on sex/marriage/abstinence. 

Granted, it's a big wide world out there, full of all sorts of weird things.  I suppose it's possible this is real, but I'm skeptical.

[Fitz]

My wedding was in teh basement of a courthouse, in jeans and t-shirts, and then we went to mexico. Only person present was the clerk as a witness, and the justice who married us.

My marriage is fantastic. Rare that I can find people who put up with my *expletive deleted*it.

[MillCreek]

Christians and feminists don't see the world in the same way.  Obviously.  The author claims to be (or have been) a devout Baptist church goer, but she doesn't talk or think like a churchgoer.  She talks & thinks like a feminist who doesn't really understand church teachings on sex/marriage/abstinence. 

Interesting.  I know lots of people who are Christians and feminists, and many of them I see every Sunday at church.  Perhaps they don't meet your definition of Christian.

[RevDisk]

My wedding was in teh basement of a courthouse, in jeans and t-shirts, and then we went to mexico. Only person present was the clerk as a witness, and the justice who married us.

My marriage is fantastic. Rare that I can find people who put up with my *expletive deleted*.

I'm not married, just living together in sin. Admittedly awesome, but the past is not without its bumps from deployments, federal investigations, treason, etc. So probably not "stable" relationship, but fun. Folks can keep their stability, I'll keep the attractive and awesome young lady with a taste for firearms, books, blacksmithing, tools and sharp objects.

[Tallpine]

There's a lot of practical reasons, such as STDs, single motherhood, and lack of a male provider for children (more important in the past than today).

I think marriage is a social construct to deal with the above, with whatever religious flavor you prefer thrown in for encouragement.  It's pretty much universal among societies all over the world.

[BlueStarLizzard]

Thanks. I had been meaning to respond to bluestarlizzard's post about stable marriages not counting because the virgin brides are (maybe-possibly) not having super-good sex. You have saved me some typing.

err... the post you responded to doesn't support your argument.

For woman without religious reasons, the advent of reliable birth control ends the historical context of needing to be a virgin bride. Add in modern genetic testing and such, it's pretty easy to determine paternity.

Also, you misread where a lot of my sympathies lay in those virgin marriages. You see, the husbands get just as screwed up, if not more so, by these issues.

so, be honest, Fistful, would you be happy in your stable marriage if your wife wasn't interested or willing? what if she was downright disgusted and hated the whole ordeal? And to know you are (even inadvertently) part of the problem?

[fifth_column]

Personally, I would have benefited, when I was young and impressionable, from a lesson on how to save myself from marriage . . . .

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

Interesting.  I know lots of people who are Christians and feminists, and many of them I see every Sunday at church.  Perhaps they don't meet your definition of Christian.

Serves me right.  I had in mind crazy radfems when I wrote that, the type who see oppression behind every tree and rage against the patriarchy for fun.  Even typed it up that way at first but changed it at the last minute, not wanting to be unnecessarily provocative.  Turns out maybe it was necessary, as "feminist" is too broad a term for what I had in mind.

It has me thinking about who qualifies as a feminist?  In my mind, "feminist" conjures up images of the crazy radfem type mentioned above.  The dictionary def says it's someone who supports equality and justice for women.  But I don't think that's quite right.  Supporting e&j for women isn't anything noteworthy or deserving of a special term.  We all support equality and justice (or should), and it doesn't put us into any special category, that's just normal.

You mention feminists at church.  Perhaps you even consider yourself one such.  Surely that's 'feminism' in the basic e&j sense, not the crazy radfem sense.  I'm not sure how the anger, resentment, and man-hating that lies at the core of crazy radfemdom can coexist with the universal love and compassion that lies at the core of Christianity.  I dunno.

Anyway...

For contrast, here's another critique of the Christianly chastity pledges and their consequences.  This one comes off as a lot less phony.  The tone and context are 180 degrees different from the original piece, and much more sincere.  Or so it seems to me.  Most of the comments also seem more genuine, even though they're mostly critical of the whole TLW thing.  Food for thought....
http://www.faithstreet.com/onfaith/2014/05/13/true-love-waits-and-waits-and-waits/32051

[MillCreek]

You mention feminists at church.  Perhaps you even consider yourself one such.  Surely that's 'feminism' in the basic e&j sense, not the crazy radfem sense.  I'm not sure how the anger, resentment, and man-hating that lies at the core of crazy radfemdom can coexist with the universal love and compassion that lies at the core of Christianity.  I dunno.

We are in complete agreement.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

Going by what I've heard, the former is actually fairly likely.  Though I  agree with you on the transition stuff.  I remember reading about 'marriage instructions' given just before the wedding night in a lot of cultures, that seems to have fallen by the wayside.  It was downright elaborate in India, from what I remember.

Around here, it's widely expected that your preacherman puts any aspiring newlyweds through a pretty substantial set of formal premarital counseling.  It's a precondition for having him officiate the wedding.  And there's always plenty of informal support within the families and congregation, too.

Is this not common in churches everywhere?  It seems odd to me that regular churchgoers could become married without being amply prepared for the transition.