Block and tackle advice - in particular old fashioned, inexpensive or home..

[Stand_watie]

...home constructed block and tackle.

I'm going to start with a long ramble, perhaps or perhaps not of interest to rural homeowners or farmers - those wanting to get right to the meat of the question go directly to the last paragraph.

Three years ago I began a work project of enlarging my yard from perhaps 1/3 acre to approximately two acres. This entailed clearing it of field brush and trees. I hand uprooted the smaller brush with my little hatchet and chainsawed the larger of the trees. I completed the aboveground portion of the project in about a year, and for the past two years have been picking away at the stumps, a little at a time, burning chopping, digging etc. I've been through lots of lawnmower blades due to forgotten subsurface stumps resurfacing at inopportune times beneath my riding mower. I'm down to only three stumps, all of which are in a partially burned state.

I now am beginning my next project, clearing about six more acres for pasture or baled hay. This is former pasture that has been overgrowing for about 25 years, and has been bushhogged twice in the last 10 years. Almost all of the trees on it are scrub, with the exception of a few cedars and a few small oaks. I'm taking all the scrub out, and going to start mowing it on a regular basis. (as an aside to treehuggers, I'm a tree-lover, I won't be murdering the forest primeval, just turning mesquite, locust, sumac etc into pasture, there will be plenty of scrub left over in my neighbors scrub field for the bunnies and armadillos and opposums to hide out in) The largest scrub trees and several very dense patches I'm going to hire out to be bulldozed.

I've decided that I'm sick and tired of stumps and wrecked mower blades. With that in mind I plan on taking all trees that I possibly can out by their roots. The condition of the field right now makes it the best possible time to do it I believe, as the first several feet of soil in the field is essentially mud, and I believe the root systems are currently at their weakest regarding being pulled out.

Now let me backtrack (you were warned in the first paragraph about my rambling), a few weeks ago the little lady got the 2nd car stuck in the ditch of the driveway (I'd warned her and warned her) - we're having the wettest spell in northeast Texas right now that we've had for several years, and although my driveway is good and solid if you go off the edge in wet weather you're stuck, but good. I've wanted a winch for quite some time - I could have gotten one of my neighbors down here that afternoon with a tractor or 4x4 to pull me out for free, but that would have left ruts in my field, or paid fifty bucks for a local wrecker who could have snatched it without leaving the driveway, but that would be fifty bucks down the drain, and so I decided to buy myself a winch, and then I'd be all set the next time something got stuck or needed pulling. I found a good deal on a battery operated winch - A "warn works" winch rated at 1,700 lbs from Northern tool for 99 bucks. I bought it. After I bought it, I kicked myself. For another 70 or 80 bucks I could have bought one that had about a 4,000 lb capacity, but I had thought to myself when purchasing that for pulling a small car out of the ditch, 1,700 lbs would be sufficient (and it was).

It wasn't until I bought the winch that I got to thinking that I could use it to uproot small trees. Now you see where this is going - a 4,000 lb winch would uproot larger trees. I've tested it and it's good for about a two inch tree in dry earth, and hopefully a larger tree in mud.

O.k., here's the question for those of you who skimmed the boring parts

"What do you know about simple mechanical devices that will increase the winch's pulling power?"

I'm on a budget, as usual. My owner's manual suggests a "snatch block", whatever that is. I've seen plenty of +100 year old block and tackle arrangements hanging in old barns, and I wonder if some such could be used for a horizontal pull rather than a vertical lift? Or perhaps a block/tackle device was made that was intended to turn a single mule (my winch) pulling into the power of a team of oxen pulling? I'm looking to buy or build something on the cheap. Advice solicited from the peanut gallery, even if it's something you saw your crazy uncle Hiram do one time.

Now I see the sun coming up. So I'm off for a day of winching, chopping, burning, and if I can find any high spots, mowing. I'll check back in later.

[280plus]

A block and tackle should work ok horizontally as long as you lay everything out neatly and don't let it get tangled as you take up tension. Make sure you have one that's of large enough capacity though, you don't want the thing to let go while under great tension and hurt you or someone else.

[publius]

I assume the winch has a cable? If so, you can get a pulley which is mounted in a metal frame and has a hook on the frame. Run the winch cable through the pulley and back to the truck, then hook onto whatever is around the tree. If it's frictionless, you have just doubled your pulling power, and cut your rate of pull in half.

[280plus]

you have just doubled your pulling power

Right, which turns 1750 lbs into 3500 lbs, that's why I'd worry about something letting go.

This reminds me of the day they removed the HUGE maple tree from our yard to put in the new septic system. The guy had a pretty good sized excavator and he was lifting the back of it off the ground trying to pull the stump out. I was amazed. Took him a while, but he got it.

[Tallpine]

Either pull (or push) the trees out whole or else cut them leaving very tall stumps.

The higher up the tree you attach your cable/snatch block, the more leverage you will have to uproot it.

But if you have that much ground to clear, and unless you want to work very hard and very long, I would see about getting somebody with tractor loader and/or backhoe to push them out for you.  Life is too short to do that much work if you don't have to.

(Another thing is that I've found that those 12V electric winches are limited duty cycle - that is after making a few pulls you have to let them cool off for a while.  I used one like that many years ago on a log loader boom, and we had to keep stopping to let the motor cool.)

What works really good on small to medium trees is a decent sized tractor and front end loader with those top clamps.  Then after pushing the trees/scrub out of the ground, the tractor operator can pick them up and carry them to a pile to be burned.

[280plus]

I like the leverage idea!

Wait a second, couldn't you just hook them stumps up to your Chevy Silverado, turn on Bob Seeger's "Like a Rock" really loud and yank them out that way? 

[Rovi]

Here's what you're looking for-
http://www.arb.com.au/snatch_blocks.php

Available from 4x4/off-road shops.

[Stand_watie]

Thank you all for the advice.

Tallpine, I actually discovered your 'leverage' principle today, but didn't realize why until I read your post.

I pulled a bunch of little trees today, and a couple of bigger ones. The biggest was perhaps six inches across at the ground level. I discovered that for the trees too large for the winch, but small enough to bend over with the winch, if I hooked the cable up high, and winched the tree over a bit, the roots on the back side of the tree pulled up taught under the soil, making them easy to locate, and a few whacks with a sharp axe to the roots and the larger tree would pull up.

The biggest I got.

[Art Eatman]

Mesquite?  And you're not really in a hurry?  Remember that mesquite roots go down deep.  Way deep.  In the desert along the cutbanks of dry creeks, I've often seen roots that are fifty feet long.  Any root system left and it grows back.  Ask any south Texas rancher.

The remedy is Remedy.  $94/gallon at Tractor Supply, last time I checked.

One tablespoon per gallon of diesel.  Use one of those little cheap two-gallon hand sprayers.

Use lopping shears to cut just one or two branches.  Spray just a smidgen of mix on the stub.  Don't bother with spraying the whole plant.

A year later the mesquite is dead, dead, dead, and breaks off easily.  Commonly, just below ground level.

Remedy will kill anything else, as well.  Anything that will kill mesquite is "tougher'n dirt".

Art

[mfree]

Find a heavy board, and dig a hole. Tie the line to the stump about halfway down, tie the line to the truck or come-along at the top, leaving it lean about 45 degrees toward the stump.

Should give you 2:1 with no tackle at all, and if something breaks you've got a couple feet to notice before you come up taught.

[roo_ster]

I financed part of my highschool fun & college ed by working tree removal & learned a thing or two about it.

Mexican Stump Grinder
The quickest, cheapest, & dirtiest way to get stumps out of the way of lawnmower blades is the "Mexican Stump Grinder:"
1. Cut down a tree, size of remaining stump immaterial.
2. Take yourself a mattock & dig down around the base of the stump a few inches & out a few inches.  More in both dimensions is better.  Clean out the disturbed earth.
3. Use your axe to clean off the dirt & bark fron the stump below ground level as best you can.  The cleaner it is, the longer your chain saw will remain sharp.
4. Use your chain saw to horizontally cut the stump off below ground level
5. Cover up the stump with the dirt you disturbed & toss sod or grass seed over the top.

Repeat as necessary.  If you can manage to pull a tree over, the MSG may be unnecessary.  The larger the tree, the more likely that the MSG may be a viable option.  A real stump grinder is kinda pricey, but can, at times, get the stump even lower.

Pickup Truck
Also, a stout cable and a pickup truck can do wonders.  I like the idea of this option, as if the cable does snap for some reason, there is some metal between you and the cable.  A snapped cable under tension is no joke.

Mass or an Immovable Object
To get a decent-sized tree over, you'll need either a lot of mass for the pulling vehicle or an anchored, immovable object.  Sometimes a 1/2 ton PU will not do the trick. I have used trucks up to the size of a 2-ton dumper with a full load. 

More Line Is Better
More line allows your happy self & your equipment to be out from under the danger zone.  It also reduces the angle at which you are pulling, thus reducing the upward vector on your truck bumper.  This allows the truck to get more traction and put its mass to use.  Also, do not be afraid to double up your lines.  If you think your line is marginally adequate to the task, get a stronger line or at least double it up.

Last, always be careful with this sort of work.  Large masses, falling masses, cables under tension, chain saws...a good place ofr Darwin to nab the unwary.

Oh, I forget ot mention: keep you chain saw chain sharp at all times!  The sharper the chain, the cleaner the cut, the less wear on the engine and--most important--the less time you will be cutting...thus reducing your exposure.  I always had a sharpening rig* at every work site.  Even if I was not cutting dirty stuff, the chain got a touch up at lunchtime & in the AM.  If I cut a dirty stump or other dirty stuff, I would sharpen it soon thereafter. 

* Vise & rat tail files.  No need for fancy tools or removing the chain from the bar.  Plink the bar in the vise & sharpen it on the bar.

[Tallpine]

I always had a sharpening rig* at every work site. 

I always carried a round file and handle with me when I was logging - either in a belt pouch with my wedges or at least with my gas cans.

No vise needed.  My favorite way to sharpen the chain is to sit on a big stump, with the saw between my knees with the trigger handle on the ground and the bar pointed straight up.

[charby]

Dynamite works pretty good on stumps also.

Outside of being funny, on your longest run on the cable attach an old blanket midline, in case the cable breaks the cable doesn't flail around as much. A snapped cable will decapitate if you are not careful.

-C

[roo_ster]

I always had a sharpening rig* at every work site.

I always carried a round file and handle with me when I was logging - either in a belt pouch with my wedges or at least with my gas cans.

No vise needed.  My favorite way to sharpen the chain is to sit on a big stump, with the saw between my knees with the trigger handle on the ground and the bar pointed straight up.

Well, I was a fancy-pants city-slicker tree-feller.  I also probably drank water out of hte cooler with my pinky in the air. 

[Stand_watie]

The MSG was my last method jfruser. Problem seems to be soil sinking around the stumps or stumps rising.

Art, thankfully I don't have much mesquite to deal with, but I do have an evil little nest of those honey-locust, that I'm going to take your suggestion on.