Author Topic: Hugo Awards Kerfluffle  (Read 6807 times)

Ned Hamford

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Hugo Awards Kerfluffle
« on: August 24, 2015, 05:12:01 PM »
http://www.wired.com/2015/08/won-science-fictions-hugo-awards-matters/

I only noticed as Patrick Rothfuss posted a link on his facebook.  Wow. Drama. 

While it pertains to political/ideological process manipulation shenanigans in the Hugo Awards; the lessons are applicable to group dynamics across the board. 

Inactive/Passive Majority, 'Progressive' groups, 'Reactionary' groups, and agent provocateurs/useful idiots on both sides. 

As ever both sides think that inactive majority will, or at least should, awaken and side with them.  And both sides poorly paint, inaccurately or unsympathetically portray, and bait the other side in an attempt to make the choice easier... but its those kind of shenanigans that keep folks from getting active in the first place.   

Its always a shame to see authors of whom you are fond caught up in anything that keeps them away from making more books for you to enjoy.   :P
Book Three Mr. Rothfuss...  https://youtu.be/FuOMuA_ySXM
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Devonai

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Re: Hugo Awards Kerfluffle
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2015, 05:34:48 PM »
My strategy of languishing in the far lunatic fringe has finally paid off.
My writing blog: Kyrie Devonai Publishing

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vaskidmark

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Re: Hugo Awards Kerfluffle
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2015, 10:49:53 PM »
Apparently there was some sort of live broadcast (Facebook?  Cable TV?) where the Hugos people  did stuff that should have resulted in their falling on their swords but they did not.

http://gunfreezone.net/wordpress/index.php/2015/08/24/thoughts-about-the-2015-hugo-awards/

Quote
SJW/Chorfs (Social Justice Warriors/Cliquish, Holier-than-thou, Obnoxious, Reactionary, Fanatics)

 :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

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Andiron

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Re: Hugo Awards Kerfluffle
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2015, 11:22:34 PM »
"Leftism destroys everything good." -  Ron

There is no fixing stupid. But, you can line it up in front of a wall and offer it a last smoke.

There is no such thing as a "transgender" person.  Only mental illness that should be discouraged.

BlueStarLizzard

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Re: Hugo Awards Kerfluffle
« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2015, 07:38:50 AM »
And the bulk of the SJWs involved have no clue that their puppet master is nothing more that Tor books.

This was never about politics. It was about the riffraff challenging Tor's defacto ownership of the Hugo's.

I'm thinking about doing voting membership next year. If I do, I'm voting for quality of work and, hopefully that will align with the Puppy Slate.
And then sit back and laugh while the idiots destroy their special toy so no one else can have it.

(Unless the proposed rule changes prevent such)
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RevDisk

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Re: Hugo Awards Kerfluffle
« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2015, 08:31:59 AM »

I've been trying to distance myself from 'net politics. But I've made two observations.

One is, Larry and Brad Torgersen made a mistake by not distancing themselves from Vox Day. Yeah, they were called racists (Larry is officially Latino, Brad is married to a very nice lady that happens to be black), misogynistic (even though they had females on the Sad Puppy slate) and all kinds of other words that SJW's like to throw around.  I highly suspect that Theodore Beale is nearly as... uh, strongly opinionated as his persona of Vox Day but associating with Vox Day doesn't help their cause. He brings in few resources to the table, in exchange for being a poison pill. Larry and Brad saw him as an independent fellow traveler. Not many other folks did. A lot of folks warned both of them of this, but ultimately it was their decision to do nothing.

The other is, yeah, the Hugo Awards are shooting themselves in the foot. The only 'good news' is, free markets eventually win out. Literary awards, very much including the Hugo Awards, concur very little to no economic incentive. Some awards practically carry a negative financial. Yes, the SJW and other cliques do hold considerable sway in certain literary fields. But they're generally not making money hand over fist. 
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roo_ster

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Re: Hugo Awards Kerfluffle
« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2015, 09:18:06 AM »
I've been trying to distance myself from 'net politics. But I've made two observations.

One is, Larry and Brad Torgersen made a mistake by not distancing themselves from Vox Day. Yeah, they were called racists (Larry is officially Latino, Brad is married to a very nice lady that happens to be black), misogynistic (even though they had females on the Sad Puppy slate) and all kinds of other words that SJW's like to throw around.  I highly suspect that Theodore Beale is nearly as... uh, strongly opinionated as his persona of Vox Day but associating with Vox Day doesn't help their cause. He brings in few resources to the table, in exchange for being a poison pill. Larry and Brad saw him as an independent fellow traveler. Not many other folks did. A lot of folks warned both of them of this, but ultimately it was their decision to do nothing.

The other is, yeah, the Hugo Awards are shooting themselves in the foot. The only 'good news' is, free markets eventually win out. Literary awards, very much including the Hugo Awards, concur very little to no economic incentive. Some awards practically carry a negative financial. Yes, the SJW and other cliques do hold considerable sway in certain literary fields. But they're generally not making money hand over fist. 

If they had distanced themselves from whomever the neo-stalinist SJWs currently insisted they denounce, the SJWs would have found another Emmanuel Goldstein that they would require folk to denounce or be adjudged racists/sexists/whateverists.  That is just the way SJWs roll:  Faux moral superiority through pseudo-victimhood, ever-changing dogma to be loudly adhered to, and always a demonized OTHER.

I recall reading about Round One and Round Two of Sad Puppies and the same accusations were hurled at Larry then, too.

Besides, if normal people are going to win against the neo-stalinists, normal folk can not afford to dump the strident in their ranks at demand of the enemy neo-stalinists.  No enemies to the right. 

Regards,

roo_ster

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BlueStarLizzard

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Re: Hugo Awards Kerfluffle
« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2015, 10:21:56 AM »
They did distance themselves from Vox Day. They stated numerous times that they had nothing to do with Rabid Puppies and Vox Day was out on his own mission.

The SJWs seemed to think that the Sad Puppies were responsible for Vox and should shut him up. The link between Vox and Rabid Puppies and Sad Puppies was never in existence and Torganson and Corriea had no control over that.
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MechAg94

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Re: Hugo Awards Kerfluffle
« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2015, 12:34:48 PM »
Quote
Would sci-fi focus, as it has for much of its history, largely on brave white male engineers with ray guns fighting either a) hideous aliens or b) hideous governments who don’t want them to mine asteroids in space? Or would it continue its embrace of a broader sci-fi: stories about non-traditionally gendered explorers and post-singularity, post-ethnic characters who are sometimes not men and often even have feelings?

Fromt he first link.  I guess I have read books that fit the former description, I doubt they are a majority. 
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

Andiron

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Re: Hugo Awards Kerfluffle
« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2015, 12:38:01 PM »
They did distance themselves from Vox Day. They stated numerous times that they had nothing to do with Rabid Puppies and Vox Day was out on his own mission.

The SJWs seemed to think that the Sad Puppies were responsible for Vox and should shut him up. The link between Vox and Rabid Puppies and Sad Puppies was never in existence and Torganson and Corriea had no control over that.

The biggest mistake was the similar names of the campaigns.  Sad puppies was brilliant on Correia's part.  Fun satire.  Vox day naming his movement something similar just made all the CHORFs over there lump them together.
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MechAg94

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Re: Hugo Awards Kerfluffle
« Reply #10 on: August 25, 2015, 12:43:31 PM »
I guess most of the SciFi I have read in recent years is from Baen.  I guess there are a lot of off shoots of SciFi and Fantasy that I don't pay attention to.  Especially the awards and politics of it.
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HankB

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Re: Hugo Awards Kerfluffle
« Reply #11 on: August 25, 2015, 01:02:45 PM »
I've been a reader of sci-fi from the time I was a youngster . . . and FWIW, I've often thought that some of the books and stories that won awards were absolute crap.

This gives me a little insight into why.
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Chuck Dye

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Re: Hugo Awards Kerfluffle
« Reply #12 on: August 25, 2015, 07:25:44 PM »
More commentary from a source I like:

http://thelawdogfiles.blogspot.com/
Gee, I'd love to see your data!

MechAg94

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Re: Hugo Awards Kerfluffle
« Reply #13 on: August 26, 2015, 12:31:01 PM »
Lawdog mentioned Marko Kloos and Annie Bellet.  I have read and liked a couple books by Kloos.  Any particular books by Bellet that are good to start with?  I thought one of you might know.
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BryanP

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Re: Hugo Awards Kerfluffle
« Reply #14 on: August 26, 2015, 01:23:51 PM »
Blah blah blah.  The Sad / Rabid Puppies organized, got out the vote, and dominated the nominations.  The anti-slate folks organized, got out the vote, and dominated the awards. Better luck next year. Or not. Both sides have people who would best be described as "YOU'RE NOT HELPING!", but in the end it's a literary award that is only meaningful to a fairly small group of people. I'm kind of glad I stopped going to SF conventions several years ago.  I don't even want to think about the con suite conversations this would have engendered.

I vote with my $* and I don't care about their politics.  I'm still going to buy the books of people who entertain me.  Larry Correia, Marko Kloos, and Jim Butcher are all on that list.  So are John Scalzi, George R.R. Martin, and Seanan McGuire.  Apparently I'm supposed to be boycotting one set or the other depending on which side I agree with.  Screw that %&*.  Both sides have run around squawking about how their little fee fees are being hurt and I'm over caring about it. 



*I have boycotted two authors whose work I enjoy.  And by boycott I mean I only buy their books used so they never see my money.  It's not their politics, it's that I met both of them and they were both Grade A Asshats.  There's a couple of others I stopped reading entirely because they couldn't' stop ham-handedly injecting their politics into their stories.
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MechAg94

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Re: Hugo Awards Kerfluffle
« Reply #15 on: August 26, 2015, 03:25:59 PM »
If this hadn't been posted, I would have never heard of it.  I have heard of the hugo awards, but never cared about it or bought books based on it. 
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

zxcvbob

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Re: Hugo Awards Kerfluffle
« Reply #16 on: August 26, 2015, 04:07:00 PM »
If this hadn't been posted, I would have never heard of it.  I have heard of the hugo awards, but never cared about it or bought books based on it. 

Ditto.
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HankB

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Re: Hugo Awards Kerfluffle
« Reply #17 on: August 26, 2015, 06:49:20 PM »
OK, these were the Hugo awards . . . anything happening with the Nebula awards? Are they still around?
Trump won in 2016. Democrats haven't been so offended since Republicans came along and freed their slaves.
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BryanP

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Re: Hugo Awards Kerfluffle
« Reply #18 on: August 26, 2015, 07:47:54 PM »
OK, these were the Hugo awards . . . anything happening with the Nebula awards? Are they still around?

They are, but I think those are voted on by authors, not fans.
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erictank

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Re: Hugo Awards Kerfluffle
« Reply #19 on: August 27, 2015, 08:22:38 AM »
And the bulk of the SJWs involved have no clue that their puppet master is nothing more that Tor books.

This was never about politics. It was about the riffraff challenging Tor's defacto ownership of the Hugo's.

I'm thinking about doing voting membership next year. If I do, I'm voting for quality of work and, hopefully that will align with the Puppy Slate.
And then sit back and laugh while the idiots destroy their special toy so no one else can have it.

(Unless the proposed rule changes prevent such)

New rules, whatever they end up being, cannot take effect until 2017.  Two years out, per the bylaws.

Voting for what you want *IS* the Sad Puppy "slate".  Has been the official position since Day 1 of SP1, three years ago.  Vox Day's Rabid Puppies, this year, got marching orders to vote straight RP slate, supposedly; the SP3 people were told, "Here's what we think deserves nomination and award this year.  Read everything, and vote for what you believe deserves it."  It was never that all message fiction sucks - it was ALWAYS that *BAD* message fiction, message fiction for the sake of straight-left-wing-message-fiction, sucks.  Right-wing too, for that matter.  Give us GOOD STORIES - and if you can work a good message into that good story, more power to you!

Somehow, that became the Puppies (no distinction made between the groups) being "racist homophobic misogynist neo-Nazi reactionary extreme-right-wingers who don't care about quality but just about political ideology!!!" 

Beale (Vox Day) had threatened before the vote that if No Award got slated by the CHORFs, he'd do his best to nuke the Hugos into perpetuity, No-Awarding EVERYTHING, for years.  No idea if he plans to follow through.  I've seen suggestions that he figure out what the CHORFs would be likely to nominate, and nominate them himself on the Rapid Puppies 2 slate, so that the CHORFs either vote for "his" nominated candidates, or they nuke their own preferred winners.

The SP4 campaign ("Sad Puppies 4 - The Embiggening") is spinning up now, headed by 3 women (at least one of whom is a Hispanic immigrant), prepping for next year's nominations and voting under the same sort of program as SP1-3 - read it all and vote for what you liked.  I plan to participate again.  The CHORFs did *EXACTLY* what the Sad Puppies predicted they'd try - burn it down rather than see deserving candidates who did not toe their line win (they No-Awarded categories to deny deserving female candidates a Hugo because those candidates were supported by the SPs).  Toni Weiskopff, one of those wrongly denied a well-deserved award, was inspired to WALK OUT OF THE CEREMONY because of the childish and unprofessional antics on stage by WorldCon, and I really can't blame her one bit.  So the SPs intend to get out the vote even MORE.

I'm thinking that the CHORFs really did bite off more than they can chew.  Either they acknowledge that bad message fiction is NOT deserving of something with the prestige of a Hugo, and that fandom is not just that tiny little clique of several hundred people who run WorldCon and pass the awards around between favored (Tor) candidates, or they nuke EVERY category into the ground themselves to keep us wrongfen from having wrongfun.  And then we buy the books and watch the movies we like anyways, and their people get to brag about having their award-winning books ranking in the 2.5 millionth-place on Amazon. 

I am a fan.  My voice has a place in the Hugos.  They can acknowledge that, or they can try to shut me and those like me out, and relegate themselves to (further) obscurity rather than improve their relevance in the modern market.

roo_ster

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Re: Hugo Awards Kerfluffle
« Reply #20 on: August 27, 2015, 10:12:23 AM »
I vote with my $* and I don't care about their politics.  I'm still going to buy the books of people who entertain me.   

AFAIKT, that is the Puppy position.
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roo_ster

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Hawkmoon

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Re: Hugo Awards Kerfluffle
« Reply #21 on: August 27, 2015, 09:30:48 PM »
The other is, yeah, the Hugo Awards are shooting themselves in the foot. The only 'good news' is, free markets eventually win out. Literary awards, very much including the Hugo Awards, concur very little to no economic incentive. Some awards practically carry a negative financial. Yes, the SJW and other cliques do hold considerable sway in certain literary fields. But they're generally not making money hand over fist. 

They lost me.

My favorite SF author for decades was Anne McCaffrey. When Anne finally got too old to carry on, her son from California took over writing new books in the Pern series. The first thing he did was introduce blatant homosexuality, menage a trois, menage a quatre, and a bunch of other stuff that basically destroyed the literary planet and society that his late mother spent thirty years creating.

I have just about all Anne's books on their own shelf in the living room. Todd's books are tossed in a dusty corner and not even allowed in the same room as his mother's books. I've read and re-read all his mother's Pern books probably ten times, at least. His got read once, and it was a struggle not to burn them before I was halfway through.
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erictank

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Re: Hugo Awards Kerfluffle
« Reply #22 on: August 28, 2015, 08:45:57 AM »
The original Pern books - the four of them - are ones I need to get deadtree copies of.  Actually, I need ANY copies, I don't think I have any of them at the moment.

Those were some damn fine books.

MechAg94

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Re: Hugo Awards Kerfluffle
« Reply #23 on: August 28, 2015, 09:34:37 AM »
I can only think of a couple books that I just had a big problem with the author's views.  Both I didn't finish.  The story wasn't compelling enough to keep going.  On both it was more a general attitude of the book that was just irritating.  I would rather re-read a good book than fight through a book like that. 
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BlueStarLizzard

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Re: Hugo Awards Kerfluffle
« Reply #24 on: August 28, 2015, 04:15:39 PM »
They lost me.

My favorite SF author for decades was Anne McCaffrey. When Anne finally got too old to carry on, her son from California took over writing new books in the Pern series. The first thing he did was introduce blatant homosexuality, menage a trois, menage a quatre, and a bunch of other stuff that basically destroyed the literary planet and society that his late mother spent thirty years creating.

I have just about all Anne's books on their own shelf in the living room. Todd's books are tossed in a dusty corner and not even allowed in the same room as his mother's books. I've read and re-read all his mother's Pern books probably ten times, at least. His got read once, and it was a struggle not to burn them before I was halfway through.

... Did you not read Dragonseye? Because Todd wasn't involved in that one, and it has teh gayz!!!

I understand what you are saying, but you picked the wrong example.

Anyhoo, Eric Flint, Mercades Lackey. Two names that have never shown up on the Hugo's. There are dozens of other examples. Writers who have the "correct" politics with the "correct message" that have very high sales and a long history in the genre who haven't gotten any recognition. Why? They don't write Tor or subsidiaries.
The truth is the whole politics angle is total bullshit. Yes, Tor publishes the politically correct authors with the politically correct stories, but the reason they win isn't due to their politics, it's because they write for Tor and Tor has controlled the Hugo's.

I keep hammering on this point, because it's the part that really gets my goat on the whole thing. If it was actually about politics, those authors from other houses would have been winning a lot more Hugo's. As it stands, they have none.
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