Why guns?

[zahc]

Ok, so all us pro-gunners are quick to point out "the second amendment has nothing to do with hunting!!" but, then, why are we so gun-focused?

What about grenades, RPGs, claymores, 500lb bombs, sidewinder missiles, SAMS, and other "terrible implements". There doesn't even seem to be a strong contingent for legalization of "real" weapons (meaning things that can't even be used for non-warlike purposes).

All the good weapons are basically illegal. We already lost the 2nd amendment fight. Even if the '68 and '86 were repealed, we would still have lost the fight if we only care about firearms. Right?

[Perd Hapley]

Anti-tank small arms seem like a dandy militia weapon, so the 2nd Amendment would seem to fit those pretty well.

Also, what about knives, swords, saps, etc?

[AZRedhawk44]

Totally agreed.

[lupinus]

I agree 100%

It should apply to all arms. Good luck with it though.

[Viking]

Ok, so all us pro-gunners are quick to point out "the second amendment has nothing to do with hunting!!" but, then, why are we so gun-focused?

What about grenades, RPGs, claymores, 500lb bombs, sidewinder missiles, SAMS, and other "terrible implements". There doesn't even seem to be a strong contingent for legalization of "real" weapons (meaning things that can't even be used for non-warlike purposes).

All the good weapons are basically illegal. We already lost the 2nd amendment fight. Even if the '68 and '86 were repealed, we would still have lost the fight if we only care about firearms. Right?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but many/all of those things were freely available up until the 1968 Gun Control Act. Grenades, anti-tank rifles firing explosive rounds, artillery pieces with the good ammo, cannons etc...

[Fly320s]

I think the 2nd Amendment covers ALL arms, up to and including N,B,C weapons.  But, being the nice guy that I am, I will compromise on those three areas so long as we get the rest.

[BlueStarLizzard]

I would say diffrent. I would say quite a few of us want "real" weapons and belive the 2nd Amendment covers that.

However, when was the last time you tried the "RKBA is so we can other through a tyranical government if/when we need to" arguement on an anti?
If you coach it so it's illistraighted as poor little you defending yourself from door kicking black boot stomping government agents, you can get a little ground (sometimes), but that still only covers run of the mill firearms.

Anti's can get sporting uses, they can sorta understand self defence, but the concept that the government can turn all bad and abuse it's people and deny civil liberties?
That's just beyond comprehension for the "civilized modern mindset"

[Regolith]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but many/all of those things were freely available up until the 1968 Gun Control Act. Grenades, anti-tank rifles firing explosive rounds, artillery pieces with the good ammo, cannons etc...

1934 National Firearms Act, actually. Though RPGs weren't around at that time.

[Viking]

1934 National Firearms Act, actually. Though RPGs weren't around at that time.

You sure? Everything I've read suggests that the NFA only applied to machineguns, short-barreled rifles/ shotguns and AOWs and that what is now classified as Destructive Devices were unregulated like every other non-NFA firearms until the 1968 GCA.

[Balog]

You sure? Everything I've read suggests that the NFA only applied to machineguns, short-barreled rifles/ shotguns and AOWs and that what is now classified as Destructive Devices were unregulated like every other non-NFA firearms until the 1968 GCA.

This is correct, although NFA also included suppressors.

[Viking]

This is correct, although NFA also included suppressors.

Obviously knew that, just forgot to mention them.

[Monkeyleg]

The 2A covers all of them, but we're focused on guns because we know we can't have the other stuff. Right now just trying to hang on to our guns is enough of a battle.

[Perd Hapley]

the concept that the government can turn all bad and abuse it's people and deny civil liberties?
That's just beyond comprehension for the "civilized modern mindset"

That concept is a core belief of the Left. It's just that they only believe it if the "oppressed" is some fashionable minority group (blacks, sexual deviants, etc).

I think if they were reminded of the success of guerrilla warfare in places like Iraq, Afghanistan, Viet Nam, etc, they would start to figure out that armed citizens resisting the govt is eminently doable. Of course, they would fear us all the more for it.

[Tallpine]

[Nick1911]

Anti's can get sporting uses, they can sorta understand self defence, but the concept that the government can turn all bad and abuse it's people and deny civil liberties?
That's just beyond comprehension for the "civilized modern mindset"

Well said.

Wanting to have a means of violent recourse against authority is ludicrous if one accepts the premise that the authority is benevolent and truly has your best interests in mind, and won't ever turn on you like has happened countless times in the past 100 years.  To the left, it's unfathomable that mainland America could ever be a hot shooting war, let alone one between the state and its people.

Ideologically I agree that I think an argument can be made that the second amendment covers a wide variety of military small arms, however it's extremely unlikely we will ever get anywhere close to achieving that.  As it stands, even exact duplicates of current service rifles are prohibited.

[Perd Hapley]

Well said.

I guess you and the blue lizzard slept through the Bush administration. And you don't read a lot of leftist lit. They never stop writing books and articles about the govt. oppressing this, that, and the other group.

[Phantom Warrior]

The 2A covers all of them, but we're focused on guns because we know we can't have the other stuff. Right now just trying to hang on to our guns is enough of a battle.

Yeah.  Once we have solid public and statutory support for "assault weapons" and handguns I'll be happy to start on that stuff.  Arguing for grenades and RPGs won't help us with the people who are shaking on "high capacity" magazines right now.

[Blakenzy]

People seem to be waiting for Government permission to revolt... it doesn't work that way 

If you need certain weapons you just get them. If you need to overthrow an oppressive system you just do it. No one ever got a permission slip for revolution. Anything else is just make believe.

[Monkeyleg]

Anti's can get sporting uses, they can sorta understand self defence, but the concept that the government can turn all bad and abuse it's people and deny civil liberties?
That's just beyond comprehension for the "civilized modern mindset"

My best friend laughs at my explanation of the 2nd Amendment, it being there as a final resort to an oppressive government. When I asked him if he'd seen what had gone on in Boston, he wasn't aware at all of the armed, forced searches of homes. When I told him what had happened, he asked if that was the sort of thing that I was armed for. When I said "yes", he practically had a laughing fit. I guess he's okay with it all, maybe at least until it happens to him.

When I told him about the LA police putting 102 rounds into a blue pickup truck with two women in it, none of which met the suspect description, he wasn't phased by that, either. I guess whatever goes on under Obama's tenure is a-okay.

[French G.]

Whatever happened to the good old days of municipalities owning artillery?

[Perd Hapley]

People seem to be waiting for Government permission to revolt... it doesn't work that way 

Well, go ahead and revolt, then. That's not what this thread is about.

[AJ Dual]

The simplest answer is that they're expensive.

Were NFA '34 and GCA '68 were wiped tomorrow, and erm... "cultural acceptance" of DD's was comparable to that of Title I firearms, I sincerely doubt that the statistical distribution of weapons by type or caliber would change all that much.

Perhaps people would have more stuff like grenades, and more people would play with rounds over .50 BMG, but overall, even without NFA taxes or paperwork, very few of us have the time, the land/space required, or the financial resources to mess with RPG's or a Carl Gustav.

It would be nice to have the option to do so, go back to when "men of means" would equip or better supply their volunteer units, even up to the time of the Civil War, but in terms of actual distribution of such assets, I don't think it would change all that much. While I admit there's few commercial concerns serving the market, the DD space isn't artificially limited like the MG market has been since '86, and from those few folks I do know who play in it, the NFA taxes and paperwork is really the smallest hassle when your weapon costs you a couple hundred bucks a shot.

[AZRedhawk44]

The simplest answer is that they're expensive.

Were NFA '34 and GCA '68 were wiped tomorrow, and erm... "cultural acceptance" of DD's was comparable to that of Title I firearms, I sincerely doubt that the statistical distribution of weapons by type or caliber would change all that much.

Perhaps people would have more stuff like grenades, and more people would play with rounds over .50 BMG, but overall, even without NFA taxes or paperwork, very few of us have the time, the land/space required, or the financial resources to mess with RPG's or a Carl Gustav.

It would be nice to have the option to do so, go back to when "men of means" would equip or better supply their volunteer units, even up to the time of the Civil War, but in terms of actual distribution of such assets, I don't think it would change all that much. While I admit there's few commercial concerns serving the market, the DD space isn't artificially limited like the MG market has been since '86, and from those few folks I do know who play in it, the NFA taxes and paperwork is really the smallest hassle when your weapon costs you a couple hundred bucks a shot.

Meh.

I have a 26.5mm "flare rifle."  Bought it for $200 a couple years ago.

Contriving 26.5mm rounds that do other things can't be THAT hard.  I'm not interested in experimenting right now and have no supplies or intentions to do so currently, but the inventiveness of the human mind is awe-inspiring.

Grenade launchers, primitive javelin-style anti-APC rockets, IED's... I'd rather have the ability to purchase quality units manufactured by experts, but the alternatives aren't that difficult.

[Devonai]

I'll take it under advisement, Mister Cowboy.  Hit it again!

And the quarterback is toast!

[Tallpine]

When newks are outlawed, only outlaws will have newks