Author Topic: New CAFE Mileage Numbers Announced  (Read 6093 times)

Jamie B

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New CAFE Mileage Numbers Announced
« on: August 28, 2012, 11:01:44 PM »
http://www2.nbc4i.com/news/2012/aug/28/new-mileage-standards-would-double-fuel-efficiency-ar-1153284/

Quote
The rules mean that all new vehicles would have to get an average of 54.5 miles per gallon in 13 years, up from 28.6 mpg at the end of last year. The requirements will be phased in gradually between now and then, and automakers could be fined if they don't comply.

President Barack Obama said the new fuel standards "represent the single most important step" his administration has taken to reduce U.S. dependence on foreign oil.

But Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney has opposed the standards, and his campaign on Tuesday said any savings at the pump would be wiped out by the rising cost of cars and trucks.

Already, automakers have committed to an average of 35.5 mpg by model year 2016 under a deal reached with the Obama administration three years ago.

There is a clause indicating that if automotive sales drop that new numbers can be discussed.

There is also a congressional review in 2018 to ensure that technology is in place to support the new numbers.
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Scout26

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Re: New CAFE Mileage Numbers Announced
« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2012, 11:07:18 PM »
How about get the .gov out of the energy/car field and let the market decide?
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RevDisk

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Re: New CAFE Mileage Numbers Announced
« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2012, 11:21:16 PM »

Legislating something does not make it a reality.
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longeyes

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Re: New CAFE Mileage Numbers Announced
« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2012, 11:32:34 PM »
Legislating something does not make it a reality.

This.  A government comprised of people who believe that because they write something on a piece of paper it happens Out There.  There's a term for this: Magical Thinking.  And it sums up the extravagancies of Progressivism.

We're going to driving something in 10-15 years but it might be a stretch to call it an automobile...
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Jamie B

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Re: New CAFE Mileage Numbers Announced
« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2012, 12:01:09 AM »
This.  A government comprised of people who believe that because they write something on a piece of paper it happens Out There.  There's a term for this: Magical Thinking.  And it sums up the extravagancies of Progressivism.

We're going to driving something in 10-15 years but it might be a stretch to call it an automobile...
Great! Now comes the Jamis rant about personal aircraft!  =D
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Cliffh

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Re: New CAFE Mileage Numbers Announced
« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2012, 12:23:45 AM »
In order to meet the current standards cars are getting smaller and lighter, with fewer ponies under the hood.  To meet the new standards they'll most likely have to be even smaller and lighter, with even less power.

There will still be 18 wheelers on the road.

Smaller and lighter isn't always the safe way to go....

Monkeyleg

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Re: New CAFE Mileage Numbers Announced
« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2012, 01:31:26 AM »
In order to meet the current standards cars are getting smaller and lighter, with fewer ponies under the hood.  To meet the new standards they'll most likely have to be even smaller and lighter, with even less power.

There will still be 18 wheelers on the road.

Smaller and lighter isn't always the safe way to go....

Yep. Here's a timely quote from tonight's column by Michelle Malkin:

Quote
For years, free-market analysts and government statisticians have warned of the deadly effect of increasing corporate auto fuel economy standards (CAFE). Sam Kazman at the Competitive Enterprise Institute explained a decade ago: "(T)he evidence on this issue comes from no less a body than the National Academy of Sciences, which issued a report last August finding that CAFE contributes to between 1,300 and 2,600 traffic deaths per year. Given that this program has been in effect for more than two decades, its cumulative toll is staggering."

H. Sterling Burnett of the National Center for Policy Analysis adds that NHTSA data indicate that "322 additional deaths per year occur as a direct result of reducing just 100 pounds from already downsized small cars, with half of the deaths attributed to small car collisions with light trucks/sport utility vehicles." USA Today further calculated that the "size and weight reductions of passenger vehicles undertaken to meet current CAFE standards had resulted in more than 46,000 deaths."

Northwoods

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Re: New CAFE Mileage Numbers Announced
« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2012, 02:00:42 AM »
Is is possible to make cars significantly lighter without compromising safety?  Damn skippy.  But it's also hideously expensive.  A Formula 1 chassis without engine or ballast could be picked up by a few guys and allows the driver to walk away from wrecks that in any current road car would leave the occupants looking like chunky salsa.  But they also cost tens of millions of dollars.  Each.

Even if you look at high end sports cars, thanks largely to carbon fiber, the weight is amazingly low when you consider the power it has to absorb.  And crash survivability is also very good.  But again, you're talking well into 6 figures to buy one.

For a typical family sedan that technology is simply not affordable.  And economy of scale really won't bring the price down all that much.

Far better than screwing with CAFE standards would be to "drill baby, drill" while also building a metric crap-ton of nuclear plants and using the gas/coal saved to produce whatever "drill baby, drill" doesn't, and then use the excess power from the nukes to start making synthetic hydrocarbons and reserve all that oil for value added products like plastics, fertilizer, etc.
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Re: New CAFE Mileage Numbers Announced
« Reply #8 on: August 29, 2012, 03:00:09 AM »
Well, I guess we just have to sacrifice a few lives on the altar of environmentalism.

HankB

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Re: New CAFE Mileage Numbers Announced
« Reply #9 on: August 29, 2012, 06:24:33 AM »
Well, I guess we just have to sacrifice a few lives on the altar of environmentalism.
A nation that sacrificed a space shuttle and crew on that same altar and is willing to compromise the performance of its military's small arms for environmentalism should have no qualms about the lives of a few thousand motorists a year.
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griz

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Re: New CAFE Mileage Numbers Announced
« Reply #10 on: August 29, 2012, 08:17:18 AM »
Quote
There is a clause indicating that if automotive sales drop that new numbers can be discussed.

Kind of reminds me of the joke about how to get a bolt tight enough, "twist it until it breaks and back off half a turn".
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Sergeant Bob

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Re: New CAFE Mileage Numbers Announced
« Reply #11 on: August 29, 2012, 09:01:45 AM »
A nation that sacrificed a space shuttle and crew on that same altar and is willing to compromise the performance of its military's small arms for environmentalism should have no qualms about the lives of a few thousand motorists a year.

No argument from me on the space shuttle.
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brimic

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Re: New CAFE Mileage Numbers Announced
« Reply #12 on: August 29, 2012, 09:08:38 AM »
Quote
The rules mean that all new vehicles would have to get an average of 54.5 miles per gallon in 13 years, up from 28.6 mpg at the end of last year.

Might as well require that all vehicle run on unicorn farts....
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Tallpine

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Re: New CAFE Mileage Numbers Announced
« Reply #13 on: August 29, 2012, 09:42:13 AM »
Most motorcycles don't even get 54mpg, do they  ???

 ;/


The new cars will all have a big handle on the back end to wind the spring  =D
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RoadKingLarry

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Re: New CAFE Mileage Numbers Announced
« Reply #14 on: August 29, 2012, 11:10:51 AM »
My Roadking doesn't , didn't when it was stock either. About the best I've ever gotten with it was around 45 MPG during the first 500 break in miles. 40 mpg is about the best it'll do 2 up taking it easy, 35 or so running the freeways and interstates.

The people setting these "standards" know exactly what they are doing and it isn't wishful thinking. The only way to make those number is smaller, lighter vehicles with limp wrist performance. Big pickups, muscle cars and SUVs are on the chopping block deliberately .
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Re: New CAFE Mileage Numbers Announced
« Reply #15 on: August 29, 2012, 12:15:04 PM »
You know how folks started buying light-truck based SUVs when all the big cars went away...

well, the next thing will be those medium-truck based rigs for hauling big fifth-wheel and gooseneck horse trailers.  :facepalm:
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Re: New CAFE Mileage Numbers Announced
« Reply #16 on: August 29, 2012, 12:16:36 PM »
Bastards the lot of them
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Re: New CAFE Mileage Numbers Announced
« Reply #17 on: August 29, 2012, 12:36:04 PM »
Most motorcycles don't even get 54mpg, do they  ???

 ;/


The new cars will all have a big handle on the back end to wind the spring  =D

My Honda Shadow is a 750cc engine, about half the size of a harley.  I get 50 to 55mpg depending on my riding habits and the terrain.  It could get down to mid 40's if I'm climbing a lot of elevation, And peak around 60 if I'm doing a bunch of downhill and keep it under 55mph.

But, it only weighs about 550 pounds.
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birdman

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Re: New CAFE Mileage Numbers Announced
« Reply #18 on: August 29, 2012, 12:43:20 PM »
I get 40-45mpg on my bike, and it only weighs like 430lbs....of course, nearly 200hp does hurt that a bit :)

brimic

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Re: New CAFE Mileage Numbers Announced
« Reply #19 on: August 29, 2012, 12:46:52 PM »
Quote
The people setting these "standards" know exactly what they are doing and it isn't wishful thinking. The only way to make those number is smaller, lighter vehicles with limp wrist performance. Big pickups, muscle cars and SUVs are on the chopping block deliberately .

Not only that, but the EPA is always at the verge of mandating 15% ethanol fuels. If the CAFE standards can'tbe met with straight gasoline, they surely cannot be met with E-10 or E-15.
A properly tuned turbo-deisel in a rally car sized vehicle could probably easily do it, but the EPA isn't going to allow that either.
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brimic

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Re: New CAFE Mileage Numbers Announced
« Reply #20 on: August 29, 2012, 12:52:27 PM »
Quote
I get 40-45mpg on my bike, and it only weighs like 430lbs....of course, nearly 200hp does hurt that a bit
A friend of mine is always amazed that my 20-some year old Sportster gets over 50mpg where his Honda VFR only gets around 36- with a smaller engine, I have to remind him that he gets 3x the HP and has 4 times as many valves allowing his engine to breath a lot more.
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Re: New CAFE Mileage Numbers Announced
« Reply #21 on: August 29, 2012, 01:05:46 PM »
My '89 Harley will get a bit over 50 mpg if all I'm doing is highway riding.

My Mustang gets 10 to 11 mpg around town in the summer with the A/C on. That must drive tree-huggers crazy. :)

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Re: New CAFE Mileage Numbers Announced
« Reply #22 on: August 29, 2012, 01:23:13 PM »
My '89 Harley will get a bit over 50 mpg if all I'm doing is highway riding.

My Mustang gets 10 to 11 mpg around town in the summer with the A/C on. That must drive tree-huggers crazy. :)

My old 89 Mustang GT with a 310 HP 5.0 (mildly modified) would get 25mpg all day long on the highway and about 14-15 in town if I kept my foot out it.
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longeyes

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Re: New CAFE Mileage Numbers Announced
« Reply #23 on: August 29, 2012, 01:50:15 PM »
My rickshaw gets 70 mpg. So there.
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Re: New CAFE Mileage Numbers Announced
« Reply #24 on: August 29, 2012, 02:06:46 PM »
Wonder how many mpg my horse gets, considering the diesel fuel used harvesting hay ...?  =|
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