Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: wmenorr67 on July 14, 2014, 10:21:35 AM
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http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/07/14/bergdahl-could-return-to-active-duty-as-early-as-monday-army-says/?intcmp=latestnews
First question I have is what will his duties be?
There is so many issues with this guy anything short of turning rocks and mowing grass would set my radar off. I know I wouldn't want him in charge of anything sensitive in nature. I know since he is a NCO he shouldn't be doing "work" but supervising those that do then put him in charge of the detail that turns rocks and mows grass.
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Well he's got a couple schools to go to to catch up with his rank. That'll keep him busy for a little bit.
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He'll be stationed at Ft. Sam Houston. I say put him in charge of feeding the deer and peacocks in the Quadrangle. Better than he deserves, but limits his interaction with people.
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Well he's got a couple schools to go to to catch up with his rank. That'll keep him busy for a little bit.
Knowing the Army they will give him a waiver. :facepalm:
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Sounds like he's getting a desk job.
I know the internet hates the guy. I'm not ready to pass judgment as I don't know all the details. From what I understand, he's sketchy but not likely another Nidal Hasan. 5 years in captivity is a LONG time. Acting squirrelly during captivity or immediately after is understandable, so long as his actions were more or less honorable.
Call me funny, but I'm giving a POW the benefit of a doubt until proven otherwise.
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Meh... Seems like more "formalities" to me.
Like the automatic promotions while in captivity etc. And the "innocent until proven guilty" method.
Probably also part of declaring him fit for Court Martial too.
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Doesn't McMurdo need a gate guard with no ammo?
It would be worth the cost of putting in a gate. Not necessarily a fence, mind you, and a guard shack would be a waste of money, but gates aren't too pricey.
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5 years in captivity is a LONG time.
Exactly. Which is why being certified fit for duty in 2 months is a bit strange.
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Doesn't McMurdo need a gate guard with no ammo?
It would be worth the cost of putting in a gate. Not necessarily a fence, mind you, and a guard shack would be a waste of money, but gates aren't too pricey.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbWg-mozGsU
BTW,I was thinking pre-court martial too.
Since there was such a huge fuss over getting him released,I wonder how they'd go about a court martial?
I suspect that within a year he'll quietly leave the Army and disappear from public view.
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Doesn't McMurdo need a gate guard with no ammo?
It would be worth the cost of putting in a gate. Not necessarily a fence, mind you, and a guard shack would be a waste of money, but gates aren't too pricey.
I'd say just a single spool of concertina wire stretched across a random bit of ice.
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Sounds like he's getting a desk job.
I know the internet hates the guy. I'm not ready to pass judgment as I don't know all the details. From what I understand, he's sketchy but not likely another Nidal Hasan. 5 years in captivity is a LONG time. Acting squirrelly during captivity or immediately after is understandable, so long as his actions were more or less honorable.
Call me funny, but I'm giving a POW the benefit of a doubt until proven otherwise.
5 years is a long time, and I'll give him the benefit of the doubt on any squirrellyness during and since coming home. I'll even cut his Dad some slack for behaviour during and after. That's gotta suck.
It's the reports of his behavior beforehand that concern me. Again, nothing's proven so I'm not saying ship him to Siberia, but a lot of folks, some of who I know, are raising some stink about him. On the "where's there's smoke..." idea I wonder what's up. I'm also pretty sure that nothing will ever be investigated. Niether the Army nor the Executive branch want this to remain in the new very long.
I just hope he actually did get all the counciling he needed, and politics didn't force this speedy recovery.
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I too am trying not to pass judgment prematurely on the guy but I see some similar issues with him that were there with Manning. What pisses me off about the Manning situation is that yes he did wrong but he should have never been in the position he was in. He should have had his clearance suspended and he too painting rocks.
I am in the same camp as being all OK after just a couple of months after being held captive for 5 years. I would like to see any correlation as to how long it took for POW's from Nam to be considered "fit" considering.
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Exactly. Which is why being certified fit for duty in 2 months is a bit strange.
"Fit" to sit at a desk and shuffle papers. He was in a combat unit. It will probably be a long while before he returns to combat status, if ever.
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http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/07/14/bergdahl-could-get-350g-tax-free-if-cleared-by-army/
Bergdahl was moved to the U.S. Army North command on Saturday, shifting from the U.S. Army South command, which had overseen his arrival in the U.S. and reintegration. Under Army North, he will return to work and live in standard military barracks. He is being assigned to the protocol office, which assists soldiers in military procedures and etiquette.
“That’s the worst place to put him. They’re pulling his clearance so I’m not sure what he’s supposed to do,” said one Army official, speaking on the condition of anonymity as they were not authorized to publicly discuss the sergeant’s case.
If it is deemed he was a POW I have no problem with him getting his pay because he is entitled to it. I'm just curious as to why his pay would have stopped while he was being held since there was no question about him being alive?
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If it is deemed he was a POW I have no problem with him getting his pay because he is entitled to it. I'm just curious as to why his pay would have stopped while he was being held since there was no question about him being alive?
Do deserters normally get paid for the time they spend AWOL?
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Do deserters normally get paid for the time they spend AWOL?
No.
I read, but now forget, what his official status was while he was gone, but if they are talking back pay, it must have been deserter. I'm 99.95% sure if they think you're a POW the whole time you keep getting paid.
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Well now that Bowe Bergdahl is back on Active Duty he needs to finish his AT Level 1, Anti Phishing, Removable Media, Combating Trafficking in Persons General Awareness Course, Composite Risk Management, Equal Employment Opportunity, Fraternization, Law of Land Warfare, OPSEC, Personnel Recovery, TARP, SHARP, Suicide Prevention, Cyber Awareness, Safe Home Computing, PII, SERE 100, SSD 2.
Also his Hearing Readiness is 720 days delinquent and he needs to make his way to S1 to update his DD93 and SGLI.
Also he can't forget his MRT, Weapons qual, PT test, POV inspection, INFOSEC, Accident Avoidance, and Risk Assessment! Oh! His Medpros are red, his shot card is outdated by five years, and his GAT is red.
And all by COB today.
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Well now that Bowe Bergdahl is back on Active Duty he needs to finish his AT Level 1, Anti Phishing, Removable Media, Combating Trafficking in Persons General Awareness Course, Composite Risk Management, Equal Employment Opportunity, Fraternization, Law of Land Warfare, OPSEC, Personnel Recovery, TARP, SHARP, Suicide Prevention, Cyber Awareness, Safe Home Computing, PII, SERE 100, SSD 2.
Also his Hearing Readiness is 720 days delinquent and he needs to make his way to S1 to update his DD93 and SGLI.
Also he can't forget his MRT, Weapons qual, PT test, POV inspection, INFOSEC, Accident Avoidance, and Risk Assessment! Oh! His Medpros are red, his shot card is outdated by five years, and his GAT is red.
And all by COB today.
Yeah, but he can do them over the web, so... =D
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"I am sorry for everything. The horror that is America is disgusting."
"If deployment is lame, I'm going to get lost in the Mountains and make my way to China."
I am ashamed to be an American. And the title of 'U.S. soldier' is just the lie of fools.
At least six soldiers were killed in subsequent searches for him, according to soldiers involved in the operations to find him. The Pentagon was not able to provide details on specific operations in which any soldiers killed during that time were involved.
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Ayup.
CSM i know is retiring over this. He lost several good troops
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Well now that Bowe Bergdahl is back on Active Duty he needs to finish his AT Level 1, Anti Phishing, Removable Media, Combating Trafficking in Persons General Awareness Course, Composite Risk Management, Equal Employment Opportunity, Fraternization, Law of Land Warfare, OPSEC, Personnel Recovery, TARP, SHARP, Suicide Prevention, Cyber Awareness, Safe Home Computing, PII, SERE 100, SSD 2.
Also his Hearing Readiness is 720 days delinquent and he needs to make his way to S1 to update his DD93 and SGLI.
Also he can't forget his MRT, Weapons qual, PT test, POV inspection, INFOSEC, Accident Avoidance, and Risk Assessment! Oh! His Medpros are red, his shot card is outdated by five years, and his GAT is red.
And all by COB today.
LOL funny you should mention TARP. Only can be given by a CI agent or qualified 35 series. Not sure I would want him holding a weapon anytime soon and not sure OPSEC will do any good. His DD93 would be a great idea because if it had been correct maybe someone would have been getting his pay all this time.
He probably needs SSD1 and if it has been more than two years since he was signed up to do it he is screwed because it isn't supposed to be able to be reopened once it closes. If no SSD1 no further schools so no further advancement. Time to go ahead and just admin him out.
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Why, again, isn't he being investigated? ???
I can't imagine getting away with this, but apparently it's a thing. I should go desert to France or some other nice place til EAS, then come back and collect back pay it seems.. ;/
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There is some sort of investigation going on but until they complete it the public isn't going to hear too much about it to try to keep the integrity of it intact.
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He should run for the US Senate.
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He should run for the US Senate.
Whoa. That was a low blow. He hasn't been convicted yet, there is no need to associate him with US Senators or their ilk. Pretty sure that violates the APS standards of politeness, even if describing a potential deserter.
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Whoa. That was a low blow. He hasn't been convicted yet, there is no need to associate him with US Senators or their ilk. Pretty sure that violates the APS standards of politeness, even if describing a potential deserter.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-kHBcuzjkxIM/AAAAAAAAAAI/AAAAAAAAACQ/FrVruWVY5u8/photo.jpg)
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I was under the impression "POW" was a very specific designation that is applied under circumstances that don't apply to him.
Isn't calling him a POW when he isn't something of an insult to real POW's?
Regardless, it will be interesting to see what happens down the road. I suspect we won't hear any results from the investigation until after the midterms OR even after the next presidential election.
By that point folks will just say "what difference does it make?".
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Whoa. That was a low blow. He hasn't been convicted yet, there is no need to associate him with US Senators or their ilk. Pretty sure that violates the APS standards of politeness, even if describing a potential deserter.
I laughed harder than I probably should at this.
I'm waiting on the report. It might be legit, it may be whitewash... IMHO, being a POW for 5 years gets him at least the benefit of a doubt. I suspect he's a blue falcon at a minimum.
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Have they set a date to pin all the medals on him yet? [barf]
This whole mess stinks to high heaven. There needs to be at the very least an Article 32 hearing, followed by a courts martial and firing squad.
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“That’s the worst place to put him. They’re pulling his clearance so I’m not sure what he’s supposed to do,” said one Army official,
He was an E3 grunt, what was the highest clearance he could have had, a Confidential? Probably not even that.
Bergdahl still has not spoken to his parents, although he has sent two letters to them at their home in Idaho. Robert and Jani Bergdahl have yet to visit him in Texas, and there are reports of a rift in the family.
This one leaves me scratching my head.
According to military officials familiar with his rehabilitation program, Bergdahl now has a lawyer to represent him.
“He appears unconcerned about the Army’s investigation,” said one official. “The investigation has to get moving, as he’s out of the Army soon. He lawyered up so we had to scale back the de-briefing.”
Reading between the lines, this really doesn't sound as though he is cooperating as they hoped he would.
The more I read about him, the less I like about him and the like pool is very very shallow to begin with.
bob
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Bergdahl still has not spoken to his parents, although he has sent two letters to them at their home in Idaho. Robert and Jani Bergdahl have yet to visit him in Texas, and there are reports of a rift in the family.
They're probably bummed he's less enthusiastic for jihad since living with the camel rapers for a few years.
“He appears unconcerned about the Army’s investigation,” said one official.
Inshah Allah.
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He was an E3 grunt, what was the highest clearance he could have had, a Confidential? Probably not even that.
Well it would have depended on the mission set the unit he was with were set to do. My second deployment we had to get an entire company Secret clearances based on the mission they were assigned.
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I guess there could be some cases, but as soon as the mission was over, the clearance would be allowed to expire on its own, wouldn't it. Depending on my assignments I held everything from Confidential to TS, but I don't remember the clearance following me from command to command. Of course, that was a while ago and I could be misremembering. =|
bob
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Once an investigation is complete a Secret clearance is good for 10 years and a Top Secret, 5 from the date the investigation was completed. From there at least at the TS level you have to be read into different compartments when your mission dictates. But no you don't "lose" your clearance just by changing commands.
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I guess there could be some cases, but as soon as the mission was over, the clearance would be allowed to expire on its own, wouldn't it. Depending on my assignments I held everything from Confidential to TS, but I don't remember the clearance following me from command to command. Of course, that was a while ago and I could be misremembering. =|
bob
Administrative downgrade.
When I left my first boat and reported to Sub School Groton for training my secret clearance was admin down graded to confidential.
Caused a bit of a stink when I found out about it and reported it. The school I had just completed was in a SC IF and you had to hold a Secret just to be allowed to be escorted in to the facility.
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I was under the impression "POW" was a very specific designation that is applied under circumstances that don't apply to him.
I'd rather call any military member held captive by a terrorist organization that we are in conflict with, especially for extended duration, a POW than anything else.
In this specific case I'd rather treat him as a former POW until a court of law determines otherwise. Hell, he should be considered a POW even if a court of law DOES state that he screwed up in all but the most extreme circumstances.
My thoughts on the matter: Desertion, AWOL, it doesn't matter. You are still a member of the United States Armed Forces until you are formally discharged, such as through a court-martial. No such action was taken before his capture; ergo he's a POW. A desertion(as opposed to a mere AWOL) charge MAY result in the forfeiting of all pay and allowances from the time of the desertion, but do they have enough evidence to prosecute either? I don't know. Do they WANT the press from holding a trial on the only POW of significant time in ages? Probably not.
In any case, I figure his being assigned to a protocol office is more to enable them to be readily available to massage any public statements that he might make, or more accurately to be available for interview by said protocol office before THEY make a statement, whether it's regarding him, his time in captivity, capture, the Taliban, whatever.
Do deserters normally get paid for the time they spend AWOL?
No, but in this case he was maybe AWOL for maybe a day before being captured, at which point it wasn't his choice anymore.
Isn't calling him a POW when he isn't something of an insult to real POW's?
I wouldn't say so, no. He might of had an easier time of it than many, but not all German held POWs were treated horribly either. Honestly, as a military member I'd consider it scarier to remove the designation from him.
By that point folks will just say "what difference does it make?".
Probably part of the reasoning.
I read, but now forget, what his official status was while he was gone, but if they are talking back pay, it must have been deserter. I'm 99.95% sure if they think you're a POW the whole time you keep getting paid.
I'm 99.95% certain his status was 'POW'. Why? You don't promote deserters with their peers like you do with POWs.
I figure that lacking dependents they stop his pay in favor of escrowing/safeguarding it themselves. Money deposited in a bank with nobody to manage it is subject to disappearing. Instead I believe the procedure is to set it up so the pay is deposited into the 'Savings Deposit Program' which pays 10% interest a year. 'Back Pay' in this case is going through all the paperwork, raises and such and double checking everything is correct.
He was an E3 grunt, what was the highest clearance he could have had, a Confidential? Probably not even that.
Secret is actually the standard; they want it today to merely give you access to NIPRnet. Of course, as an E3 I had a TS/SCI. It's all about the job, not the rank.
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In any case after saying all of the above my position is lacking any HUGE evidence I think they should give him his back pay and quietly separate/medically retire him.
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Administrative downgrade.
When I left my first boat and reported to Sub School Groton for training my secret clearance was admin down graded to confidential.
Caused a bit of a stink when I found out about it and reported it. The school I had just completed was in a SC IF and you had to hold a Secret just to be allowed to be escorted in to the facility.
Ha - something like that happened to me once. My division had just switched to Bush's Pay for Performance "test" pay system that they wanted (may want) to replace the entire GS pay system with. Part of the process was resubmitting all our OPM paperwork with job descriptions, payscales, etc. with the updated information. Job series are a number, and if you have a clearance, there is a letter next to your number indicating the clearance level (nothing obvious - "S" doesn't mean SECRET for instance). Well, clearances in the program office where I worked were rare as hen's teeth, so whichever of our personnel drones that were processing the changes, which they didn't tell us about, apparently thought the letter was a typo, so they removed it. About a month after the pay conversion, I went to SACTO to work a mission with the Coast Guard that required a briefing because of sensitive equipment onboard the C-130. Went to give their security guy my info, and he comes back and tells me I have no clearance. I called our security office in Seattle with a "what the hell?" and to their credit, they found the problem within a couple of hours. Unfortunately, it required completely resubmitting my paperwork with OPM to correct the job designator, which would take 30 days. So I got two days of paid leisure time in Sacramento. In July.
Don't know if it's the same in the .mil, but on the civilian side, you get your investigation, lets say to TS. If you have a job that lasts a year, you have the TS for that time, then when you don't need it, it's made "dormant" I guess - the investigation is still good, but you have no need to know anything. If a year later you have something that requires S, you just put in the paperwork that takes a few days to process. Since you already have an active investigation at the S level or higher, it's a quick process to reinstate a clearance at the appropriate level.
Or at least that's how it's supposed to work. A lot of civilians get their clearance with some very generic reason and end up keeping the clearance for the entire timeframe of their investigation because the reason is not connected to a specific mission. There is very little follow up anywhere in the chain to see if they still require the clearance or not, so a ton of people have active clearances that they don't need. Also as Firethorn said, SECRET seems to be the new black. Everybody and their brother in the relevant job areas seems to get one. I don't think I ever met anyone with only a Confidential clearance.
As for Bergdahl, I can't help but be pessimistic and think maybe somebody (or somebodies) is getting a choice billet or maybe a star, to push through his reintegration this quickly. If so, I think it's a disservice to both the Army, and to Bergdahl himself. If he's innocent, a thorough investigation is needed to help ensure he can carry on his life without a ton of unanswered questions dogging him the rest of his life. If he's guilty, a thorough investigation is needed to ensure he gets the help he needs - to potentially include Leavenworth time, because accepting responsibility and paying the piper is a form of healing as well.
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Instead I believe the procedure is to set it up so the pay is deposited into the 'Savings Deposit Program' which pays 10% interest a year.
Jeezy Petes! I would love to find a bank account that pays 10% annual interest!
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I don't know if they tweak it for POW's, but the SDP normally caps at $10,000 balance* and you can only be in it while deployed. Still it's a nice perk if you can afford it while overseas. I've used it (not the full 10k) twice.
*You can put 10k in it, and if you leave it alone for the whole year they will give you $1,000.
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He has retained a Yale law professor for counsel. The professor is "honored/thrilled" to be chosen.
Not sure what the exact term was but that is the jest of what he said.
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If the Army were smart (Don't laugh, it could happen!) they would give him all his back pay and then some and a Ch10 General Discharge under honorable conditions and wash their hands of it. "Leave us alone and get on with your life anyplace other than the Army."
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If the Army were smart (Don't laugh, it could happen!) they would give him all his back pay and then some and a Ch10 General Discharge under honorable conditions and wash their hands of it. "Leave us alone and get on with your life anyplace other than the Army."
Sorry I don't agree with this. Then you will encourage more that are disgruntled to just walk away from their post.
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Sorry I don't agree with this. Then you will encourage more that are disgruntled to just walk away from their post.
And you think the current administration would have a problem with that? Hell, they tried to prop this dirtbag up a some kind of hero. I suspect that in Obama's eye he is.
BTW, I agree with you.
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Sorry I don't agree with this. Then you will encourage more that are disgruntled to just walk away from their post.
The circumstances of this case are such that solutions are not broadly applicable.
Sure, my first instinct is to hang him from any convenient tree because I harbor suspicions he is a deserter. But there is the reality that he spent five years in captivity of some sort. The message of, "Desert your post and spend five years with moon-god worshiping, goat-n-boy-raping savages wondering if you will appear on youtube getting your head sawn off," has limited appeal.
Also, I do not think combing over details in public would be helpful to the Army. WAY to many folks sympathetic to sedition and treason could use it as a cause célèbre. And then there are those outside the White House...
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My issues come up when the locals say that he had come into the village asking for the Taliban leaders.