Should I put a new engine in my 2003 car?

[mtnbkr]

I have a 2003 Toyota Camry (4cyl 5spd manual) with 155k on the odometer.  It has not lived up to expected Toyota standards based on my previous two Toyotas. Over the past two years, I've put a fair amount into repairs I would not expect at that point in a car's lifespan.  That said, I do not expect to repeat those repairs in the next 100k miles.  Also, oil consumption has never been great.  It was using a quart or so every 3k miles when I got it at 75k and is now up to roughly 1qt per 1500 miles (no smoke or drips though).  The body and interior are in good shape.  The manual transmission shifts smoothly and doesn't whine or groan (unlike the owner).  There are some other minor problems, but they are easily repaired when I get the desire to do so.  The car is comfortable and gets decent (though not stellar) gas mileage.

Somewhat related, we also have a 1997 4Runner with 172k miles.  It runs well, but because of it's age and mileage, will be replacing it soon (keeping the 4Runner, just not using it as a daily driver).  I don't want two car payments at the same time, nor do I want the tax bill for two newer cars.  Because the Camry is in fairly decent shape, I was considering a rebuilt engine from some place like Jasper.  I don't know the cost yet, but it would be cheaper than a new car and would not result in a higher property tax bill like another car would. 

With a new engine and the other minor repairs, I would probably keep this car another 75-100k (or about 4-5 years at the current rate of driving). 

Does this plan make sense? 

Chris

[Nick1911]

For the cost of an engine, installed.... you can buy a heck of a lot of motor oil.

Just Sayin.

Do you believe that the current engine is going to die in the near future?  Why not wait for it to completely fail before throwing that kind of money at it?

[Nick1911]

Also; why not have the current block rebuilt?

Are you planning on doing to install work yourself?

[mtnbkr]

I don't have the time to deal with it if it fails suddenly.  So far, there's no sign of that happening.

I would have someone else install it.

This is just preliminary navel gazing, if I get serious about this, I will check on the cost to rebuild the current block as well.  Though, it's rare a rebuilder will give a warranty for there work as good as Jasper's warranty (3yrs/100k miles).  Most that I've seen are 12month/12k miles.

This isn't something I was planning on undertaking soon, just an idea that came to me.  If I did this, it would be this summer at the earliest, maybe even next year (2011).

Chris

[mtnbkr]

I checked at Jasper's website.  A remanned engine for my car would be roughly $5k delivered.  Installation would be extra.  I suspect the total cost would be roughly $6k.  That's about $1500 more than I expected.  I'm not sure it's worth that much.

Chris

[Nick1911]

Realistically, if the only sign of impending doom is oil consumption, it may well be a fixable problem.

If there's no knocking, compression is good across all 4, and it has good oil pressure, I'd strongly consider paying a mechanic to see if you can find out where the oil is going.  It might well be something entirely easily repairable like valve seals.

[mtnbkr]

No knocking.  I don't know the compression, but the engine runs well and smooth.  Also don't know the oil pressure (idiot light only), but the light doesn't come on or flicker, even when the oil level is low. 

My fear with getting a tech to track it down is going down the rabbit hole of troubleshooting, repair, etc.  I've done that before and it's time consuming and expensive.

Chris

[roo_ster]

I usually side on "repair it until its unreairable" abut if it has been a lemon from th eget-go, I would not want to sin more $$$ in it. 

Also, think if it this way:  "What sort of auto could i get for $6K + whatever I sold the oil-sucking Camry for?"

That looks to be in the neighborhood of $4K for a stripped, average 2003 Camry with 170+K miles, according to edmunds.com. So, ~$10K.

[Nick1911]

No knocking.  I don't know the compression, but the engine runs well and smooth.  Also don't know the oil pressure (idiot light only), but the light doesn't come on or flicker, even when the oil level is low. 

My fear with getting a tech to track it down is going down the rabbit hole of troubleshooting, repair, etc.  I've done that before and it's time consuming and expensive.

Chris

That's true, chasing down problems can be time consuming; and time is money.

That said - the oil has to be going somewhere, and if it's not leaking on the ground, it's most likely being consumed internally.  In my mind, this points to:

Piston rings
Head gasket
Valve seals.

I believe the combination of a leak down test and compression test would be very informative if this were the case.

My old Eagle Talon consumed about 3-4 qt between oil changes.  Even at that fairly extreme amount of oil consumption it still didn't put blue smoke out the tail pipe.  (Perhaps the catalytic converter was causing that?  Not sure.)  Anyway, my point here is that if you are continually losing oil, and it'd not ending up on the floor, that it almost has to be getting burnt.

[grampster]

I felt the same way about my 2002 Nissan Frontier, Chris.  I thought I'd spend about $800.00 and change some belts, shocks and a tune up instead of a new truck.  115,000 miles.  So far, I've got $3000.00 in it since around August, and something in the drive line started to clunk when I let off the gas and re-engage the throttle.  Not U joints or rear wheel bearings, already did one of those.  Probably in the transfer case or the rear end.  Mechanic says to drive it till it fails as a rebuild of one or the other (or both if my luck is as usual) wouldn't be any more at failure than now.  Sigh....Still cheaper than $25,000 for a new 4X4 pkp.

[Brad Johnson]

Some catalytic converters are efficient enought to burn off some oil smoke, so 'no smoke' is not a very good indicator of where/where not the oil is going.  Pull the plugs (sounds like it's time for a new set anyway).  If it's getting into the combustion chamber it will show up as soot on the plug.  If not, it could be as simple as a leaky exhaust valve seal.

Brad

[charby]

I usually side on "repair it until its unreairable" abut if it has been a lemon from th eget-go, I would not want to sin more $$$ in it. 

Also, think if it this way:  "What sort of auto could i get for $6K + whatever I sold the oil-sucking Camry for?"

That looks to be in the neighborhood of $4K for a stripped, average 2003 Camry with 170+K miles, according to edmunds.com. So, ~$10K.

What he said

Trade the Camry in a different set of wheels for the wife pay it off as fast as you can then pick up some econo box for you to replace the 4 runner as your daily driver.

[mtnbkr]

Some catalytic converters are efficient enought to burn off some oil smoke, so 'no smoke' is not a very good indicator of where/where not the oil is going.  Pull the plugs (sounds like it's time for a new set anyway).  If it's getting into the combustion chamber it will show up as soot on the plug.  If not, it could be as simple as a leaky exhaust valve seal.

The plugs are 120k iridium jobs and were replaced (by me) about 30k ago.  They looked fine back then.  The issue isn't tracking down the oil loss, but putting that work into a 150k engine. 

Trade the Camry in a different set of wheels for the wife pay it off as fast as you can then pick up some econo box for you to replace the 4 runner as your daily driver.

Actually, the plan is to replace the 4Runner (wifey's vehicle) with a newer minivan while I continue to drive the Camry.  Once the van is paid off, we would replace the Camry.  Considering the 4Runner isn't clapped out yet, I could always switch to it should the Camry become unreliable.  One of the benefits of having 1 more car than drivers...

Chris

[Jamisjockey]

I checked at Jasper's website.  A remanned engine for my car would be roughly $5k delivered.  Installation would be extra.  I suspect the total cost would be roughly $6k.  That's about $1500 more than I expected.  I'm not sure it's worth that much.

Chris

For six grand you can buy a reliable used car.  Hell, you could sell the camry to make up some of that difference, too.

[mtnbkr]

Yeah.  When I first started this mental exercise, I was expecting to spend about $4.5k.  At $6k, it isn't worth it. 

Chris

[Tallpine]

I doubt the engine will go clunk without a lot more warning than a little oil consumption.

Buy oil by the case at Walmart 

[mtnbkr]

True, but given the mileage and oil consumption, I figure I don't have *years* of service left.  Since the rest of the car is in good shape, I thought replacing the engine would be a better move financially.  Lower cost to enact and no increase in property taxes after purchase...

At least that's what I thought.  Unless I find a lower cost replacement elsewhere, a new engine would be about the same cost as replacement (assuming I sell the Camry to help fund the replacement).

Chris

[Jamisjockey]

super low miles Elantra

Mazda protoge

[Balog]

Dang, that is surprisingly high for a rebuilt. My Dad and brothers dropped a new engine into an early 80's Toyota pickup back when I was little, around 5 or 6. We were so poor at that time, I know it couldn't have been more than a couple hundred.

[Declaration Day]

I wouldn't put a new engine into a car with that many miles on it, unless I could do it for $2K or less.  Today's cars are complex vehicles and, even with a new engine, there are many other things that could go wrong and leave you stranded on the side of the road.  Just my $.02

Actually, the plan is to replace the 4Runner (wifey's vehicle) with a newer minivan

A bit of minivan advice, if you want it.  My wife and I were looking at slightly used minivans this past June.  We had a 1998 Plymouth Voyager that had served us well for 120,000 miles, but it was on its last leg and needed to be replaced.  It also was a bare-bones minivan; smallest engine available, no power locks, windows or anything.  We wanted something with more creature comforts.

We shopped around and test drove 2-3 year old minivans from Ford, Chrysler, GM, and Honda.

In the end we bought a new Kia Sedona.  It has power locks, windows, DVD player, seats that fold flat into the floor, heated windshield, cruise control, etc.  Not fully loaded, but all of the popular features.  10 year / 100,000 mile warranty, 250 hp 3.8L V6 (quite a potent engine), all for $22,500 out the door.  That's what the similarly-equipped  used minivans from the other manufacturers were going for.

Six months into ownership and 5,500 miles on the clock and we have zero complaints.  There's nothing inferior about this minivan.  I recommend you consider one when the time comes.

[mtnbkr]

Dang, that is surprisingly high for a rebuilt. My Dad and brothers dropped a new engine into an early 80's Toyota pickup back when I was little, around 5 or 6. We were so poor at that time, I know it couldn't have been more than a couple hundred.

That was about 20-odd years ago, right?  Simpler engine too.  I've seen engines rebuilt for as little as a grand within the past 20 years.  They weren't modern computer controlled, variable valve timing engines either.

Declaration Day, the Kia Sedona and the Hyundai equivalent are on our list (along with the Honda Odyssey and Toyota Sienna).  I noticed the same thing you did about prices.  The Hyundai is a rebadged Sedona, but with better fit and finish.  They stopped making it in 2008, so our only choice will be used. 

Chris

[Monkeyleg]

My Ford Ranger consumed a quart of oil every couple of times I filled the tank, from the time it was new. No biggie.

Do a compression test on all cylinders, then squirt some oil into each cylinder and test again. If the compression goes up after squirting oil into the spark plug hole, you have ring problems. If not, as has been suggested, it's probably valve guide seals.

Have someone else start the car after it's been sitting overnight so you can watch the tailpipe. If you see a bit of smoke come out the exhaust for a few seconds, that's a sign that oil leaked down through the seals overnight.

[Declaration Day]

The Hyundai is a rebadged Sedona, but with better fit and finish.  They stopped making it in 2008, so our only choice will be used. 

We went to the dealership to look at the Hyundai Entourage, and that's when I found out it had been cancelled.  The Hyundai had some optional features that weren't available on the Kia, but since its cancellation the Sedona now has those features, just so you know.  Aside from some chrome accents here and there on the Entourage, the fit and finish on both minivans is identical.

In any case, I can vouch for the Sedona; we absolutely love ours.

[Balog]

That was about 20-odd years ago, right?  Simpler engine too.  I've seen engines rebuilt for as little as a grand within the past 20 years.  They weren't modern computer controlled, variable valve timing engines either.

Ahhh, true. I forgot your car would have all the modern bells and whistles. :)

[Parker Dean]

Dang, that is surprisingly high for a rebuilt.

Time has done a lot to the price of rebuilt anythings, and Jasper has as close to a golden reputation as any company can have these days so that's another factor.

I personally wouldn't worry about oil consumption at 1qt/1500 miles. I'd run the thing until it starts fouling plugs on a regular basis, and you may not even have it by then for any number of other reasons.