Lane splitting, part 3

[gunsmith]

the "GSX 750" thread got me reminising about the good old roundtable days.
My lane splitting threads cause a lot of consternation and outrage.
The outrage never changed my mind,  for those of you who don't know, lane splitting
is when you are driving a motorcycle and you pass the car in front of you by splitting between two cars going in the same direction.
It should be legal in every state, it sounds dangerous to people who have never done it but to most California
motorcycle riders it's perfectly natural....I know, by saying that I am inviting Cali flames, but CA is not bad at all really, if we can win a good few 2A court cases I would move back there

[Perd Hapley]

Ah, the Roundtable.  May she rest in peace.  I think the difference between this and the Roundtable is we have fewer passers-by hurling insults or getting upset at variant opinions.  
'Course, I never noticed any...interesting* anarchists over there.

*read annoying, goofy, childish, etc.

[theCZ]

That was probably my favorite part of the Roundtable, the furious passer-bys!  The five page threads consisting of argument, counterargument, each with a lesser element of maturity and intellect!  Well, I guess we can always have a goal of such things on APS.

[Guest]

We sure agree re: lanesplitting!

Cars have more rubber on the road than bikes, so they can (sometimes) outbreak us.  Much worse, if we're camped behind some guy's bumper, an idiot in a cage coming in from the rear may fixate on the larger target ahead of them and ignore the smaller target (you on the bike) between.

Either way, the solution is "no-be-there-fu".  Make your own lane down the middle .

Since moving to the Seattle area I've seen things I flat can't believe.  One BMW bike had hard luggage about 2.5ft wide each side.  Looked like Rosie O'Donnel's backside goin' down the road.  Absolutely impossible to thread any needles on THAT piece of crap so if it all goes to hell in front of him he's toast.  Even the guys on thin bikes don't have any experience with threading needles so they don't have the skills to use their best possible escape routes when it all goes rodeo.

Another bizarre thing I've not experienced much in 20 years on bikes: cagers acting like bullies.

In California, any cager who pulls that crap will only see the bike squirt forward and be gone.  Ain't no fun to play with so they eventually stop.

Up here, we're legally "trapped" and there are jackarses who take full advantage...in the rain mind you.

Swear to God, next legislative session there's gonna be a brawl over the yearly pro-lanesplitting bills.

[K Frame]

About 6 months ago I saw a motorcyclist split lanes here in Virginia.

He was doing fine until he apparently got in the one car's blind spot.

SPLAT.

[Guest]

Yeah, but it's not a BAD splat.

Seriously.  Just plain ol' going down isn't a killer.  It's when you smack against something hard or GET smacked by something hard that you die.  And without lanesplitting, bumping into something hard is much more likely.

In California where it's legal, bikers teach newbies how to lanesplit properly.  Newbies afraid of lanesplitting follow older hands like a line of ducklings behind mama duck - I've seen lines five or six bikes long.  When a guy in front things he's slowing down bikers to the rear, he pulls over into a car lane and joins the back of the pack, watching the older hands and learning.

None of that exists in VA.

[brimic]

If people have aspirations of becoming road pizza, let them.  Lane splitting sure beats the jackass that passed me last year on the highway- on the freeway, while going 80+ MPH, and on the gravel shoulder.

[K Frame]

"Yeah, but it's not a BAD splat."

It is when a following car can't stop in time and ends up stopped with the biker pinned between the bumper and the bike.

It didn't look very comfortable.

I'd say a bunch of broken ribs, a badly broken arm, and a a serious concussion.

[gunsmith]

I allways hear how dangerous it is, allways.
I also know that I am alive because of my lane splitting skills.
I was lane splitting on I95 in FL one time and this yahoo kept on movig over
and taking the spot I was going to pass him with. So I retuned the favor one better.
I got in front of the car in front of him and slowed down the fast lane we were in by ten miles an hour.
Why is it that people get so bent out of shape because a motorcycle is passing them?
When I feel like getting stuck in traffic I use the pick up truck, and I listen to the radio and chill out when I am passed.

Mike, sounds like your biker wasn't really lane splitting, if a car stops when your lane splitting it is not a big deal at all.

also , you should be a good rider to attempt it, I only do it after riding a new to me bike for a few weeks.

A guy I knew who ran a bike shop in FL lost a good friend because he wasn't lane splitting and a tire fell off the back of a SUV and killed the biker obeying the law.

One time on 101 in CA I was taking it easy and didn't feel like lane splitting and a SUV with one of those swing arm tire holders on the back swung open and the guy slammed on his breaks, my lane splitting skills really came in handy

[280plus]

You want to see some REAL lane splitting? Drive down in Manhattan during a good rush hour and watch the bike couriers. I watched one push a guys sideview out of the way so he could just squeeze through. How them people don't get squashed regularly, I don't know.

[gunsmith]

280PLUS
funny you should mention that, I was a NY city bike messenger before climbing on a motorcycle in San Francisco, where I was also a bike and motorcycle messenger

[280plus]

I don't know HOW you guys do it!

But I guess that would account for your "advanced" lane splitting skillz...

[K Frame]

"Mike, sounds like your biker wasn't really lane splitting, if a car stops when your lane splitting it is not a big deal at all."

Well, as I understand the definition of lane splitting...

Two lanes of traffic traveling in the same direction.

Motorcyclist rides the white dividing line up the center between the lanes.

A gap opens and one car decides that he needs to be right, and clips the motorcyclist.

Motorcyclist lays out, car behind pins guy between the car bumper and the motorcycle.

The police did cite the driver of the car for making an unsafe lane change, I don't know about the motorcyclist. They werer more worried with getting him to the hospital.

So, I'd say yeah, it's a BIG deal when the car stops in such a manner.

Unless your chest has been classified a parking lot.

[Jamisjockey]

Okay, in today's latte-drinking, cellphone talking, book-reading-in-traffic society, how in the hell can you think its safe to lane-split?  I regularly have cars drift into my lane when I'm driving in my car....WTF makes you think they won't run you down because they're trying to hold a conversation on the phone?
Whatever you want to do to yourself....I don't care.  I just don't see how it could be safe.

[280plus]

Good points. That would be my logic against it as well. It's not YOU I'm worried about screwing up, it's the A**hole on either side of you. Plus, having driven vans daily for decades, the worst thing a biker can do is put himself in any of my blind spots. I almost got me one once and the only reason I knew about it at all is because he approached me at a stop light and asked me why I had cut him off. He acted like it was my fault but if I couldn't see him what could I do?

A fair portion of the traffic related deaths or injuries that occured to motorcyclists that I've known were caused by little white haired old ladies that didn't see the biker.

[CatsDieNow]

There was some talk of making it legal here in Texas (as opposed to "not illegal" as it is in California).  

I don't think it's a good idea because the drivers here are just not used to looking for motorcycles to be splitting lanes.  Californiaia riders have been doing it for years, so it's not an unexpected occurance there.  Heck, I am just happy if the cars here notice me, period.

[Guest]

Lanesplitting or no, motorcycle riding is DANGEROUS. And if you ride a bike, and don't believe it is a dangerous avocation, sooner or later you WILL be "splat".  Arguing about whether or not some particular style of riding is "dangerous" is missing the point. Yes, Virgina, they really ARE out to get you.
  Tokugawa 35 years riding, current bike ZRX 1200.

[InfidelSerf]

I just don't see how it could be safe.

It's not safe.  That's just it. It's a calculated risk, with variances and tolerances.
But then again riding a motorcycle period is a calculated risk.
However if the rider chooses to use the computer between ones ears.  Then it becomes THE most satisfying and exhilarating experience anyone can learn to appreciate, lane splitting and all.

I imagine lane splitting in an area where its common and legal makes the risk level drop some.
Where I grew up riding I believe it was illegal (not that it stopped us from learning how and practicing)
But I regularly used the lane split to whip through traffic before anyone knew I was there.

[Art Eatman]

Interesting.  Fifty years back, I got my first motorcycle.  A '53 Triumph Thunderbird 650.  I was stationed in Paris at the time.

Fast forward, and in the late '60s/early /70s I messed around with smaller bikes.  I soon learned that commuting in Austintatious was a death wish.  Motorcycles are invisible in that town.  Small sports cars were bad enough for idiots drifting over, not seeing a Lotus or Austin Healey.

Still, "If they didn't want me riding there, they wouldn't have paved it!"

, Art

[Telperion]

Usually when I see bikers lanesplit, it is when it is relatively safe for them to do so: packed highway traffic or at a stop light.  Once the speed picks up, it is probably safer to travel in lane, and I don't see bikers lanesplit when traffic is moving at 65+ mph.

I don't think it's a good idea because the drivers here are just not used to looking for motorcycles to be splitting lanes.

How much deference should be given to "that's the way it's been here"?  Shouldn't get rid of California's or Massachusetts' gun laws because people are just used to it?  People can handle new rules.  Happens all the time.

[Gewehr98]

Interesting.

One BMW bike had hard luggage about 2.5ft wide each side.  Looked like Rosie O'Donnel's backside goin' down the road.

I'll bet Jim has all sorts of disdain for Harley or Goldwing-based trikes, then, too.  Probably won't give them a courtesy hand wave when seeing them oncoming from the other lane.

I rode my Harley all over Northern Kalifornia for 10 years.  Never lane split once.  Had a CHP friend, motorcycle cop, who explained the only reason Kalifornia let lane splitting be legal is so the motorcycle cops could maneuver better to the scene of an accident in traffic, for a better response time.  

It's funny how the lane splitters I see are also the ones popping wheelies as soon as the traffic lights turn green, and doing those nose wheel stands when stopping.  Maybe I'm just not in that big a rush to get from point A to point B, and dying somewhere in between.  :/

[jefnvk]

The only experience I have had with them is when they were racing their buddies.  Other than that, I can't see any reason in Michigan why they would think they need to.  If you aren't patient enough to wait for the few seconds for a guy to finish his pass so you can go around the car, that you need to go between them, you are in way too much of a hurry.

Of course, I don't live in a high traffic area like Cali, so my view may be warped.  I could see the utility when traffic is bumper to bumper at a crawl, but there really isn't much use when traffic is flowing freely at 10 over the speed limit.

[Guest]

When talking about riding "safety" is very relative. Riding on a crowded freeway is simply not safe under any conditions, it is marginally *safer* if you are between cars, rather than head-to-tail with them. Yes, its possible to be turned into the filling of an auto sandwich, but that possibility exists whenever your on the road, the fact is that the bread slices come together with a *lot* less force when changing lanes than when rearending you.

The only really comprehensive American motorcycle safety study (hurt report) and its author gave a pretty strong endorsement to the safety of lane splitting versus sitting in traffic. Also remember that this is the standard operating procedure in virtually all of the overly safety conscious European traffic systems.

The problem with splitting is that it *looks* horribly dangerous, and there is always some jackass that has to do it at an absurd rate of speed to make it look even more so. There is a bill in the Washington state system to allow splitting, im almost certain that it won't pass, but I wish it would. I am pretty sure that the Texas law actually has passed.

It does seem odd to me that the primary complaints from driver's about splitting is the visibility issue. The fact is that drivers dont see us no matter what, so this complaint rings false. Splitting provides motorcyclists with more oportunities to avoid being struck by a car, and that is the *only* thing that keeps riders alive. There is no such thing as "visibility" on a motorcycle.

[Otherguy Overby]

I'd imagine most of you have heard of the MSF,  the Motorcycle Safety Foundation.

If you've been through one of thier courses, you might recall something called "The Hurt Report"    Anyway there was a PHD at USC who pioneered much of the aircraft accident studies and how to investigate an aircraft crash.  His name was Hugh Harrison (Harry) Hurt and he was also a motorcyclist.  Through a little academic networking he got a grant to study motorcycle accidents which resulted in said "Hurt Report" that the MSF quotes so often.

One thing the MSF never says, repeats, prints or whatever is:  Good old Harry Hurt stated that on a busy freeway being between the lines of traffic was often the safest place to be.


Added*

Harry's statement regarding lane splitting was made during an interview with F2W's Margeret Fowler many years ago of which I've a transcribed copy of.  Email me for it if you wish, it is quite interesting.  (It's 11 pages long, so it's not suitable for posting)

[doczinn]

if I couldn't see him what could I do?

Maybe checking your blind spot would help. Thatr's why you're told to check youir blind spot.

It's funny how the lane splitters I see are also the ones popping wheelies as soon as the traffic lights turn green, and doing those nose wheel stands when stopping.

Not the ones I see.