Author Topic: Fly on the Wal: Undercover at Walmart  (Read 18857 times)

Manedwolf

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Re: Fly on the Wal: Undercover at Walmart
« Reply #50 on: February 10, 2009, 02:56:33 PM »
raw sewage in food areas means a backed up sink

Not when they order an immediate closure, it doesn't. Backed up floor drain that has been ignored, possibly.

Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: Fly on the Wal: Undercover at Walmart
« Reply #51 on: February 10, 2009, 03:00:17 PM »
There was a problem in my neighborhood a few years ago with backed up sewer lines.  Occasionally, and seemingly at random, peoples' basements would just fill up with raw sewage.

A nasty situation, for sure.  Ultimately it was the fault of the utility provider and there was nothing the homeowners could have done about it.  Still sucks, though.

Anyway, I could foresee the same sort of thing happening in a business.

Don't care

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« Reply #52 on: February 10, 2009, 03:05:46 PM »
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« Last Edit: February 19, 2009, 12:23:01 PM by Don't care »

Firethorn

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Re: Fly on the Wal: Undercover at Walmart
« Reply #53 on: February 10, 2009, 03:06:35 PM »
Lawful, but unethical matters of closing stores that the employees chose to unionize,

And allowing Unionization has helped Industry, and by extension the workers, how much?  How much of the big three's current woes are due to the unions?  How many steel factories ended up closing down because of them?

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obtaining products from sweat shops overseas,

Many of those 'sweat shops' overseas aren't so sweat shoppish compared to the OTHER alternatives the local workers have.

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or change locations to avoid paying local property taxes, after tax abatements expire, is bad enough;

Choosing store location on total expenses and profit potentials is bad how?  And bad enough to list twice?

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but clearly unlawful matters of wage and position discrimination cases based upon gender, unpaid employee hours for work performed under the guise of saving overtime, stores changing locations to avoid paying local property taxes, clearly show that the corruption is not isolated and in most cases, directed from corporate executive management.

Any proof discrimination happens at more than store level?  Not paying employees for hours worked?  I've seen that for small businesses, large ones, hospitals, hotels, resorts, restaurants like McD's and BKs.

I believe Walmart ended up winning one higher than store level case brought, and adjusting for things like hours worked, seniority, and such they ended up equal.

To put it another way:  If they could really get away with paying women less, wouldn't they be trying to hire as many as possible?  Save themselves the payroll?

Brad Johnson

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Re: Fly on the Wal: Undercover at Walmart
« Reply #54 on: February 10, 2009, 03:06:55 PM »
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Lawful, ... matters of closing stores that the employees chose to unionize, obtaining products from sweat shops overseas, or change locations to avoid paying local property taxes, after tax abatements expire, is bad enough; but clearly unlawful matters of wage and position discrimination cases based upon gender, unpaid employee hours for work performed under the guise of saving overtime, stores changing locations to avoid paying local property taxes, clearly show that the corruption is not isolated and in most cases,

Corruption?  Hardly.  Successful business model?  Definitely.

They make no bones about the fact that they are trying to minimize expenses in order to give consumers the lowest prices on commonly available goods.  Like it or not, they are darn good at what they do.  Don't like them?  Don't shop there.  Go ahead and pay more for the same thing somewhere else.  But don't demonize WalMart for be THE example of what the American Dream and true competitive capitalism can accomplish.

Brad
It's all about the pancakes, people.
"And he thought cops wouldn't chase... a STOLEN DONUT TRUCK???? That would be like Willie Nelson ignoring a pickup full of weed."
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« Reply #55 on: February 10, 2009, 03:11:04 PM »
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« Last Edit: February 19, 2009, 12:23:27 PM by Don't care »

Brad Johnson

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Re: Fly on the Wal: Undercover at Walmart
« Reply #56 on: February 10, 2009, 03:14:26 PM »
I guess a successful business model also consists of violating fair employment practices. That fact is not demonizing a business, but is characteristic of how individuals place profit over the law, not to mention placing it over people.

Making generalized assertions without providing examples is nothing but inflammatory rhetoric.  Try again.

Brad
It's all about the pancakes, people.
"And he thought cops wouldn't chase... a STOLEN DONUT TRUCK???? That would be like Willie Nelson ignoring a pickup full of weed."
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lupinus

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Re: Fly on the Wal: Undercover at Walmart
« Reply #57 on: February 10, 2009, 03:19:59 PM »
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I guess a successful business model also consists of violating fair employment practices.
Please do educate us here.

As much as I dislike walmart at times, I always find myself warming right back up to them.

That is all. *expletive deleted*ck you all, eat *expletive deleted*it, and die in a fire. I have considered writing here a long parting section dedicated to each poster, but I have decided, at length, against it. *expletive deleted*ck you all and Hail Satan.

K Frame

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Re: Fly on the Wal: Undercover at Walmart
« Reply #58 on: February 10, 2009, 03:40:19 PM »
OK, Don't Care, you've levied this accusation:

"I guess a successful business model also consists of violating fair employment practices."

Start backing it up.

Give specific examples that demonstrate how Wal Mart violates fair employment practices.

Otherwise, your claim is nothing more than useless hyperbole of the kind bandied about by the worst of the 'OH NOES!' crowd.


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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Fly on the Wal: Undercover at Walmart
« Reply #59 on: February 10, 2009, 03:45:19 PM »
Not when they order an immediate closure, it doesn't. Backed up floor drain that has been ignored, possibly.

sorry to disappoint you but a stopped up drain in a food prep area will, get you closed imediately  or at least between 1974 and 2002 it would  thats the time i was in that biz. certified from 81 to now.  if they walk in and you have dirty water backing up on the floor or into a food sink you are closed
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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Re: Fly on the Wal: Undercover at Walmart
« Reply #60 on: February 10, 2009, 05:39:40 PM »
I worked at K Mart once, they were the most awful people to work for.
Morale was so low that no employee would bat an eye if "customers" walked out without paying.
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Firethorn

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Re: Fly on the Wal: Undercover at Walmart
« Reply #61 on: February 10, 2009, 09:39:54 PM »
Some thoughts reading over the remarks:
  
1.  Walmart wages and healthcare plans are indeed competitive - They may not be paying professional wages, but floor staff isn't professional.  Like Ford back in the day, they actually tend to pay a premium to get premium entry-level workers.  But they're still entry-level.
2.  A populated store means a profitable store, efficient store
3.  Different areas, different stores, different results
4.  They can't be the closest to everyone.



Personally, our local Walmart never has enough registers open for my taste, - and I think that the checkouts are inappropriate for grocery shopping - too long is spent per item.

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To my mind, the real scandal is not that a large corporation doesn't pay people more. The scandal is that so many people have so little economic value. Despite (or because of) a free public school system, millions of teenagers enter the work force without marketable skills. So why would anyone expect them to be well paid?

Quoted yet again, for a huge amount of sense.

Lee

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Re: Fly on the Wal: Undercover at Walmart
« Reply #62 on: February 10, 2009, 10:09:07 PM »
The true secret of Walmart is that it shares it's success with the employees that make it successful.  There are many millionaires around today that spent their entire careers at Walmart.  I use to call on them many years ago, as well as K-Mart, Sears and a bunch of chains that no longer exist.  I even met Sam and Bud Walton. 
Their concept was simple - treat the customer right, make your employees feel involved, and beat the competition on service and price.  They always invested in the best technology available and were forward looking.  The leadership was/is tireless and believes they are always behind.  Ego-maniacs rarely last very long in Walmart Management.  Ego maniacs get complacent.
I do think that Walmart has suffered in Urban areas.  The quality of those employees (or commitment of those employees) just isn't anything like it is in more rural areas.   

Uncle Bubba

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Re: Fly on the Wal: Undercover at Walmart
« Reply #63 on: February 10, 2009, 10:14:22 PM »
I guess a successful business model also consists of violating fair employment practices. That fact is not demonizing a business, but is characteristic of how individuals place profit over the law, not to mention placing it over people.

You're operating on outdated information. The transgressions you cite, the very same that every opponent of the company cites, happened in the early- and mid-'90s after Sam Walton died. That's not to say that isolated examples don't still occur, but rather that the institutional attitude that engendered and condoned them doesn't exist anymore. Wal Mart was sued over them, lost, and ever since has been sh*t-scared of being sued over them again and has implemented near-draconian corporate policies to try to ensure that they don't happen anymore.

Once Mr. Sam was gone the MBAs took over his company and made a serious but unintentional attempt to ruin it by assuming that they knew more about how to run a business than he did. The man built a multi-billion-dollar enterprise by doing things a certain way - lowest price possible and excellent customer service - and the college boys didn't even let his body cool before beginning to make changes in the operations and philosophy of the business while telling themselves and each other, "Now the old man's gone, we're gonna turn this place into a real moneymaker!". A classic example of educated fools thinking their classroom endeavors and success trump that resulting from lifelong labor and experience.

They stopped giving merit raises, demanded that work be done off the clock, paid straight time for overtime worked, and made people do work that they weren't supposed to do, among other things.  For example, firing or cutting back the hours of the healthy young males who unloaded the trucks and ordering the young and old women who worked the floor to do it, then telling those women that because the work in their departments wasn't done by the end of their shift they would have to clock out and come back to finish it before going home or risk losing their jobs. Or just in general telling floor employees to clock out and return to complete assignments before going home, again under threat of being fired. Never mind that it's been busy and they'd been helping customers, "excuses" weren't accepted. Or, as in another case, "laying off" a long-time employee because of "lack of work available", as it said on the separation notice, but having a punk-ass assistant manager tell said employee that what's actually happening is she's being fired because, "...why should I pay you the money you're making when I can hire some teenage girl for minimum wage to do the same thing?"

While the changes resulting from those days are good, the company's management philosophy still leaves a lot to be desired. Like damn-near all businesses in America today, they don't practice customer service, they practice customer appeasement and call it customer service. IOW, they ignore the customer as much as possible until he gets upset, then they give him something free or at a discount to (hopefully) assuage his vexation. That's management, however. The worker bees, like I was, do their best to treat customers like they want to be treated as a shopper, but if doing for the customer interferes with doing assigned work the managers will quickly tell the worker bees that there are "other concerns" besides helping individual customers.

My mother worked for the company from the mid-'80s to mid-'90s and experienced the changes after Mr. Sam died firsthand (those things I noted from those days, and others, happened to her), and I worked for the company in '06-'07 and experienced the policy and atmosphere changes that resulted from them and the management philosophy that holds sway now.


*edit* Lee's said it well, especially that last part.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2009, 08:44:00 AM by Uncle Bubba »
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MikePGS

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Re: Fly on the Wal: Undercover at Walmart
« Reply #64 on: February 11, 2009, 10:21:59 AM »
As others have stated, the only issue I have with Wal-Mart really is their abundance of Chinese products. There is one a few miles down the road from us that we head to on occasion. However if we have a good amount of time (the gf and I that is) we much prefer going to Meijers, which is only a couple of miles further. Maybe its just a Michigan thing (i know they have some stores elsewhere to, Ohio and Kentucky I believe) but Meijers just seems to be better to us. Also we like the fact that its a Michigan company and so would like to support them for that reason alone, but its also nice that the quality of the store appears to be nicer. Sure they probably have a ridiculous amount of Chinese products as well, but if even a few dollars more are sent to a good solid Michigan company then its worth it in my estimation.
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digitalandanalog

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Re: Fly on the Wal: Undercover at Walmart
« Reply #65 on: February 13, 2009, 03:20:22 AM »
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OK, Don't Care, you've levied this accusation:

"I guess a successful business model also consists of violating fair employment practices."

Start backing it up.

Give specific examples that demonstrate how Wal Mart violates fair employment practices.

Otherwise, your claim is nothing more than useless hyperbole of the kind bandied about by the worst of the 'OH NOES!' crowd.

I wish I could provide very specific examples, but you just have to go with my generalizations here....sorry.

Here in Northwest Arkansas, Walmart news is always news. It can get pretty ugly from time to time and there have been reports of many class action lawsuits against the company for various reasons...including fair employment practices.

I admit that I shop at Wallyworld because the competion here is pretty MEH, but I see what goes on here and this is hardly the mecca of employment models.

I even dated a girl who works in the Home Office and she has told about some of the dirty deeds that Walmart  has done to screw some of their contractors...even to the point of bankrupting them in order to insure the services don't have to be paid for.

Walmart is the All American business. Screw who you can for the best profit. This is a business based in Arkansas and they are not the ones to make up this model...they just made a really good version of it.

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Fly on the Wal: Undercover at Walmart
« Reply #66 on: February 13, 2009, 07:59:47 AM »
I wish I could provide very specific examples, but you just have to go with my generalizations here....sorry.



so that would be a "no" when asked for substantiation?
followed by more "generalizations"?
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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K Frame

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Re: Fly on the Wal: Undercover at Walmart
« Reply #67 on: February 13, 2009, 08:19:21 AM »
"you just have to go with my generalizations here"


No, no we don't.

Generalizations are absolute crap; virtually always overblown and not representative of the truth. (and yes, that is a generalization).

Your ex-girlfriend's accounts are also absolute crap. Unsubstantiated ramblings of a dissatisfied and perhaps unacceptable employee? Rumor monger? Or inside employee at the highest corporate levels of power at Wal Mart and thus able to accurately portray the company's business model?

There are fair employment practice lawsuits filed against companies every day. Most go nowhere because they're crap. Yes, Wal Mart has settled I believe two, and several others are languishing in the courts. Given Wal Mart's size, it's actually surprising that there aren't more.

 
« Last Edit: February 13, 2009, 10:35:57 AM by Mike Irwin »
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Bogie

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Re: Fly on the Wal: Undercover at Walmart
« Reply #68 on: February 13, 2009, 10:01:14 AM »
I would work at a wally world, but I'd go at it with the intention of working my way up/into a support function. I'm not particularly a people person, but I can do that... There's more to the store than the floor...
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Fly on the Wal: Undercover at Walmart
« Reply #69 on: February 13, 2009, 10:37:47 AM »
my lil bro made 15 an hour when he moved/quit. he was a night stocker. the benefits were ok. he has medical  issues that make benefits a must
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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Brad Johnson

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Re: Fly on the Wal: Undercover at Walmart
« Reply #70 on: February 13, 2009, 12:15:13 PM »
$15 an hour is $31,200 per year, plus benefits.

For reference, the gross income break point for the top 50% of wage earners nationally is somewhere in the vicinity of $29k/yr. (source: The Tax Foundation)

Brad
It's all about the pancakes, people.
"And he thought cops wouldn't chase... a STOLEN DONUT TRUCK???? That would be like Willie Nelson ignoring a pickup full of weed."
-HankB

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Fly on the Wal: Undercover at Walmart
« Reply #71 on: February 13, 2009, 12:38:37 PM »
and walmart hired my lil bro who is one of those folks who need to be on their meds to function.  and they worked with him .   more than any other place hes worked. he could legally qualify for disability but sitting is the kiss of death. his job is a true lifeline for him. they didn't take advantage of him  and they coulda. other places have.   the unions fear/hate walmart and finance the anti walmart noise. they hate foodlion too. shoot anymore a new hire at a  union store is no better off than one at foodlion or walmart. those unions have sold out their members
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

Dntsycnt

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Re: Fly on the Wal: Undercover at Walmart
« Reply #72 on: February 13, 2009, 12:44:42 PM »
I work at WM.  As this is a public forum, I'm not going to go into too many details on the negatives of the job, but really there aren't many at all.  Just little annoyances.  All in all, I love the place.  I have a full time job with benefits (and I've only been working full time about a year) including health insurance, sick pay, and vacation time.  I make enough to live and save a little, and I'm not even management yet.

Most friction I see in the company, from my lowly floor level, comes from lazy people within the system, and not from any active attempts to screw over the employees.  Most gripes I hear stem more from an attitude of excessive entitlement than any coherent wrongs being done.

Not saying they're perfect.  But I'm glad to have a job that ensures my health and financial well being (and is fairly insulated from the struggling economy).

Not to mention a system that rewards merit and hard work more than higher degrees.