President Trump Will Permit Citizens to Buy Military Surplus 1911 Pistols

[230RN]

Oh, I guess I was referring to the concept of "sporting purpose" in terms of "The Second Amendment isn't about hunting ducks."

But you're both right.  It's really about stuff made in other countries.

[K Frame]

Noveske did

https://www.noveske.com/products/ghettoblaster

(Probably the same marketing genius who did the Charter Arms "Bonnie & Clyde" ad campaign several decades ago.)

Oh good God... the people who came up with that should be beaten severely.

[MechAg94]

I guess I need to make sure my login to the CMP site is still working and get my information updated so I am clear to buy a firearm from them.  I don't want anything to hold me up if I find out they are for sale.  I figure they will go fast.  I heard the bill this is in passed Congress so it is only a matter of time.

I will be curious to see if they will be mostly Colt or how many other manufacturers there are.  

[HankB]

. . . I will be curious to see if they will be mostly Colt or how many other manufacturers there are.  

I wish I could get the 1911 my Dad carried in WWII - he told me it was made by Ithaca. I've seen a few ex-USGI Ithaca 1911s for sale over the years, but unfortunately, the serial number of the one Dad had is lost to history. 

I'll be very curious about price and condition once the CMP starts releasing them for sale . . . somehow, I'm not very optimistic about finding a good shooter at a good price.

[Ben]

I know some M1 carbines were made by companies like Singer Sewing Machine. Were any issue 1911s manufactured by "non-firearm" companies?

[Pb]

I know some M1 carbines were made by companies like Singer Sewing Machine. Were any issue 1911s manufactured by "non-firearm" companies?

Singer did make some 1911s... now they are very expensive!

[Fly320s]

I know some M1 carbines were made by companies like Singer Sewing Machine. Were any issue 1911s manufactured by "non-firearm" companies?

Yes, a whole bunch.

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/02/robert-farago/1911s-second-world-war/

[Hawkmoon]

I know some M1 carbines were made by companies like Singer Sewing Machine. Were any issue 1911s manufactured by "non-firearm" companies?

Really? Remington-Rand was an office machine company. They made more M1911A1s during WW2 than anyone else, including Colt.

[MechAg94]

Really? Remington-Rand was an office machine company. They made more M1911A1s during WW2 than anyone else, including Colt.

My Dad has one of those.  He said he traded it for a P38 many years ago.  He got the better end of that one.

[230RN]

I got all my quals together to order a Garand from them, then dropped the project.  (Incidentally, there's some benefit to seniors, FYI.)  I've still got all the stuff together, if they release the Carbines again, I may be all over that, but last I heard, the surplus 1911s were close to present high-end commercial prices.

I got my first used 1947-manufactured C-prefixed 1911 for a whole $65, so my thinking may be colored by that.

Terry, 230RN

[dogmush]

Last I was haunting the forums the CMP 1911's were expected to be $1000-$1500 depending on grade for basic mixmaster and the nice and/or correct ones are expected to go to auction.

Which is more expensive than a new, commercial 1911, but way less than the going rate for a USGI gun.

I said it before, and I'll say it again.  When the CMP email hits my phone, I'm swiping plastic on one of these.

[freakazoid]

Oh, I guess I was referring to the concept of "sporting purpose" in terms of "The Second Amendment isn't about hunting ducks."

But you're both right.  It's really about stuff made in other countries.

Sporting purpose is only for foreign made stuff?

[MechAg94]

Last I was haunting the forums the CMP 1911's were expected to be $1000-$1500 depending on grade for basic mixmaster and the nice and/or correct ones are expected to go to auction.

Which is more expensive than a new, commercial 1911, but way less than the going rate for a USGI gun.

I said it before, and I'll say it again.  When the CMP email hits my phone, I'm swiping plastic on one of these.

Same for me. 

I was thinking I might try to get two, but it might be best to get one than spend that sort of money on a nice new 1911 from Colt or other.

[RoadKingLarry]

Both of the subs I was one were stocking 1911s in the small arms locker.
We had several different "brands" and while my memory may be failing I seem to remember that we had a Singer on my first boat, I remember the Torpedoman that was the small arms petty officer making a big deal about it. I also saw, handled and shot several Remington-Rands and Colts.

In addition to the 1911s we stocked M14s and Remington 870s and Mossberg 500s with folding stocks.

I had the distinction of being the best shot with the M14 outside of weapons department and was awarded the dubious honor of being topside aft armed guard during "special" weapons handling evolutions. That damn thing gets heavy after 8-10 hours standing on a steel deck wearing a kapok life jacket in the Summer sun.

[Fly320s]

Sporting purpose is only for foreign made stuff?

The 'sporting purpose' clause is part of the import restriction law.  That is why we can o longer get the super cheap AKs, SKS, etc.

[freakazoid]

The 'sporting purpose' clause is part of the import restriction law.  That is why we can o longer get the super cheap AKs, SKS, etc.

I believe that is due to a general ban on Russian firearms. Pretty sure sporting purpose applies to domestic firearms, 12 gauges would normally be restricted except they usually fit the "sporting purpose" definition except in rare cases like the Street Sweeper.

[Hawkmoon]

... last I heard, the surplus 1911s were close to present high-end commercial prices.

NOBODY knows what the prices will be, because the CMP hasn't released any pricing, and is still early on in the process of sorting and grading. If they find any pristine, all-original examples, I would expect them to be priced competitively for what they are. The mix-masters and such will probably be graded as rack grade or field grade and sold for prices that ordinary mortals can afford.

That said, there are numerous reasons (unrelated to accuracy or lack thereof) why none of these should be regarded as "shooters." They are collector pieces. Those who want a budget 1911 to shoot would do well to buy a new one from Rock Island or S.A.M. or Tisas.

[MechAg94]

I believe that is due to a general ban on Russian firearms. Pretty sure sporting purpose applies to domestic firearms, 12 gauges would normally be restricted except they usually fit the "sporting purpose" definition except in rare cases like the Street Sweeper.

"Sporting Purpose" was why all the Russian guns (and other AK's) would come in with 10 round mags and have to be converted to use standard AK mags (see the Century drunken monkeys and the WASR).  The conversion also had to include changing a certain number of parts to American made to get around the import restrictions so it wasn't foreign anymore or something.  A lot of that dried up when the ATF wouldn't let them import the barrels anymore.

It also came up when the SKS rifles were imported.  People were installing high capacity mags or adding Tech Sight peep sights.  It was noted on forums that they might be technically in violation of the "sporting purpose" import restrictions since they hadn't changed out the foreign made parts.

None of that was an issue with US made guns.

[dogmush]

That said, there are numerous reasons (unrelated to accuracy or lack thereof) why none of these should be regarded as "shooters." They are collector pieces. Those who want a budget 1911 to shoot would do well to buy a new one from Rock Island or S.A.M. or Tisas.

I'm going to shoot the one I buy, although probably not a lot.

It would be a lot of fun to get a real M97 as well, and run a three gun match with an M97, a 1911A1, and my M1 Garand.

[just Warren]

Is the 1911 the longest serving piece of equipment, of any kind, in the US military?

The USS Constitution doesn't count because reasons.

Anyone have any idea of what might be the longest serving piece of equipment is in any current military?

[dogmush]

Is the 1911 the longest serving piece of equipment, of any kind, in the US military?

The USS Constitution doesn't count because reasons.

Anyone have any idea of what might be the longest serving piece of equipment is in any current military?

I'd say the M2 in the US military. 1933 and counting.  The 1911 only beats it if you count the Colts that MARSOC are using as "M1911".  There has been arguments among the devout as to whether they count.

[KD5NRH]

Is the 1911 the longest serving piece of equipment, of any kind, in the US military?

I think I remember something about USCG (and possibly USN) still using some .45-70s as line launchers.

[dogmush]

I think I remember something about USCG (and possibly USN) still using some .45-70s as line launchers.

They aren't then actual weapons. They are purpose built and use .45-70 blanks.

http://www.navalcompany.com

[Hawkmoon]

I'm going to shoot the one I buy, although probably not a lot.

Most people will, except buyers of any all-original, pristine collector samples. But the curator of the Army weapons museum at Aberdeen Proving Ground summed up why we shouldn't. Not an exact quote (I could try to find what he wrote, but it was ten or fifteen years ago) but, basically, he said any of the old weapons WILL fail when shot. The problem is that you can never know which shot will be THE shot that does the damage. The 1911 is prone to breakage in three areas on the slide, as a result of the fact that they weren't fully heat treated, only spot treated in three places.

If the gun is already a mixmaster, a broken slide isn't the end of the world because you can slap another slide on it (if you can find one) and you still have a mixmaster. If you break an all-original example, though, even if you can find another slide from the same manufacturer and the same year -- it still can't make the pistol original again. The best it can be after that is "correct."

I had a WW1 M1911 for a number of years. I finally sold it this year because I knew I was never going to shoot it, and it wasn't doing anything for me sitting in the safe. I don't know how many times over the years I took it out, deliberated about shooting it, and then told myself to be good and not take the risk.

[Scout26]

There aren't going to be many "pristine" examples.  The vast, vast, vast majority are going to be mix-masters  Most have been around since WWII so they've been re-barreled probably at least once, any parts that broke or were damaged got swapped out with whatever parts were on-hand (PLL) or came in through the supply system with no regard for manufacture.   

Now my AD unit was the extreme in use and abuse of our 1911's (MP's draw and carry their weapons every day), so they got the crap beat out of them.  Plus we had to qualify every 90 days, so we shot the *expletive deleted*it out of them.  I know our armorer was always working on out 1911's to keep up.  We were always worried that if we Private Joe one of the spares we carried, and he had to shoot someone/something, the first question that was going to asked was "When did you last qualify with that weapon ?"   We knew that "I didn't, that's one of the company's spares" was going to be a really bad answer,

We frequently had the CQ help during the day in the arms room, doing the simple things, like parts swaps/replacements just to keep up with all the work on all the weapons (160-1911's, 70-M16A2's, 45-M203's, 45-M60's and 4-M2's)