Author Topic: Rand Paul vs. TSA  (Read 14783 times)

Fitz

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Re: Rand Paul vs. TSA
« Reply #25 on: January 24, 2012, 09:42:38 AM »

they say they found an annomaly
their sop is to examine further
as a congressman you believe hoe should be exempt?  do you feel all congressmen are exempt?  or just your pet congressman?

It's not unreasonable to ask them to run a scan again instead of submit to an invasive pat down.

That's what he wanted. Another scan.
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Rand Paul vs. TSA
« Reply #26 on: January 24, 2012, 09:57:15 AM »
and that would amount to special treatment for him.  i find his allegation the machine throws false alerts so they can do random patdowns interesting. and it should be verifiable.
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

Fitz

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Re: Rand Paul vs. TSA
« Reply #27 on: January 24, 2012, 09:58:18 AM »
and that would amount to special treatment for him.  i find his allegation the machine throws false alerts so they can do random patdowns interesting. and it should be verifiable.

I heard the same thing from a TSA employee last time I was there.

He's not asking for special treatment. He's asking for the same treatment for everyone, including himself.
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Re: Rand Paul vs. TSA
« Reply #28 on: January 24, 2012, 10:02:49 AM »
Yes, he is using the incident to point out that the TSA needs to change their rules. 
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Re: Rand Paul vs. TSA
« Reply #29 on: January 24, 2012, 10:06:56 AM »
Quote
they say they found an annomaly

Yes, that is what they say  ;/

But they continually "find" anomalies when there is nothing there  :mad:
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Rand Paul vs. TSA
« Reply #30 on: January 24, 2012, 10:16:57 AM »
if they are playing games there is no way to keep it a secret. someone will prove it
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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Tallpine

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Re: Rand Paul vs. TSA
« Reply #31 on: January 24, 2012, 10:21:20 AM »
if they are playing games there is no way to keep it a secret. someone will prove it

Ok, so are you saying the machines are showng things that aren't there  ???

You can't have it both ways.  :P
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Rand Paul vs. TSA
« Reply #32 on: January 24, 2012, 10:31:06 AM »
its been alleged the machines are rigged to create random patdowns
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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Fitz

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Re: Rand Paul vs. TSA
« Reply #33 on: January 24, 2012, 10:33:33 AM »
its been alleged the machines are rigged to create random patdowns

It's more than alleged, I'd say, if TSA employees say it.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Rand Paul vs. TSA
« Reply #34 on: January 24, 2012, 10:34:35 AM »
if they are playing games there is no way to keep it a secret. someone will prove it


From the reporting I heard, the machines are programmed to throw a false positive sometimes. This is done so that passengers will be selected at random for pat-downs. I don't think it's supposed to be a secret.

But that's just something I heard on the radio.
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Re: Rand Paul vs. TSA
« Reply #35 on: January 24, 2012, 11:04:32 AM »
if they are playing games there is no way to keep it a secret. someone will prove it

Unless, like many of the regs and procedures used by the TSA, they are given an official security classification by TSA honchos so as to preclude any FOIA disclosures.  Any disclosure would then be a violation of federal law.
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Re: Rand Paul vs. TSA
« Reply #36 on: January 24, 2012, 12:11:50 PM »
Quote
From the reporting I heard, the machines are programmed to throw a false positive sometimes. This is done so that passengers will be selected at random for pat-downs. I don't think it's supposed to be a secret.

I have heard the same thing as a result of the reporting on the Rand Paul experience.  I personally think they should have just run him through the scanner again. 

I don't think they knew who he was either (at first). 

I was always curious which airport Rand Paul commonly used since he is from Bowling Green KY... Nashville or Louisville...  guess this answers my question.  Why? Trivia mostly for me.... 
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Re: Rand Paul vs. TSA
« Reply #37 on: January 24, 2012, 12:23:15 PM »
They are teaching us obedience--you got a problem with that? =D
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Re: Rand Paul vs. TSA
« Reply #38 on: January 24, 2012, 12:57:09 PM »
and that would amount to special treatment for him.  i find his allegation the machine throws false alerts so they can do random patdowns interesting. and it should be verifiable.

Saw them do that with a metal detector. Usually when attractive ladies were going through.


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Re: Rand Paul vs. TSA
« Reply #39 on: January 24, 2012, 01:49:38 PM »
Saw them do that with a metal detector. Usually when attractive ladies were going through.




Unpossible with federal professionals.
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roo_ster

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BryanP

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Re: Rand Paul vs. TSA
« Reply #40 on: January 24, 2012, 03:34:34 PM »
I personally think they should have just run him through the scanner again. 

Why?  That's not an option given to any other passenger.  He should be subject to the same rules as the rest of us.  If he doesn't like them then he should fight to change them, but in the meantime he should have to live with it too.

Quote
I don't think they knew who he was either (at first). 

And theoretically not relevant.

Quote
I was always curious which airport Rand Paul commonly used since he is from Bowling Green KY... Nashville or Louisville...  guess this answers my question.  Why? Trivia mostly for me.... 

It's about 70 miles from BG to Nashville.  More like 110 from BG to Louisville.  (I live near Nashville and drive to BG and Louisville at times)
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Fitz

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Re: Rand Paul vs. TSA
« Reply #41 on: January 24, 2012, 03:36:00 PM »
Why?  That's not an option given to any other passenger.  He should be subject to the same rules as the rest of us.  If he doesn't like them then he should fight to change them, but in the meantime he should have to live with it too.


Isn't that what he's trying to do?
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CNYCacher

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Re: Rand Paul vs. TSA
« Reply #42 on: January 24, 2012, 03:45:08 PM »
Isn't that what he's trying to do?

The lesson to be learned here is that when you are a private citizen and you do not like what TSA does to you, then you are sticking up for your rights.  But if you are a politician (or maybe just a Paul), and you do not like what TSA does to you, you are a jerk who wants special treatment.
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Re: Rand Paul vs. TSA
« Reply #43 on: January 24, 2012, 03:51:21 PM »
The lesson to be learned here is that when you are a private citizen and you do not like what TSA does to you, then you are sticking up for your rights.  But if you are a politician (or maybe just a Paul), and you do not like what TSA does to you, you are a jerk who wants special treatment.

Not at all.  If he had simply said "This is unacceptable", left the airport and made a stink as he tried to change things, then he'd be sticking up for his rights.  By standing there and demanding that they change their established procedures just for him he's being a jerk who wants special treatment.
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Fitz

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Re: Rand Paul vs. TSA
« Reply #44 on: January 24, 2012, 04:35:25 PM »
Did he demand they change their procedures for him only? Seems like he used a little civil disobedience effectively.

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Re: Rand Paul vs. TSA
« Reply #45 on: January 24, 2012, 08:53:23 PM »

they say they found an annomaly
their sop is to examine further
as a congressman you believe hoe should be exempt?  do you feel all congressmen are exempt?  or just your pet congressman?

Never said that he should be exempt. He should not.  I simply said you misunderstood the situation, claiming that he thought he deserved exemption.  No where in the stories was that indicated to be the case.
And he's not my pet congressman.  Don't have one, wouldn't want one. They're impossible to housebreak.
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Re: Rand Paul vs. TSA
« Reply #46 on: January 24, 2012, 10:40:21 PM »
I have a copy of the TSA procedures that was leaked a few years ago. If anyone wants a copy pm me you email. It about 2.5 Megs.
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Re: Rand Paul vs. TSA
« Reply #47 on: January 25, 2012, 01:40:59 AM »
Not at all.  If he had simply said "This is unacceptable", left the airport and made a stink as he tried to change things, then he'd be sticking up for his rights.  By standing there and demanding that they change their established procedures just for him he's being a jerk who wants special treatment.

"just for him" is where your train of thought derails
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Re: Rand Paul vs. TSA
« Reply #48 on: January 25, 2012, 01:44:47 AM »
Not at all.  If he had simply said "This is unacceptable", left the airport and made a stink as he tried to change things, then he'd be sticking up for his rights.  By standing there and demanding that they change their established procedures just for him he's being a jerk who wants special treatment.

I listened to him speak of the incident on teh toob.  He said that he (his people, staff, whatever) had talked to the TSA, and come to an agreement that children under a certain age would be allowed to go through the scanner a second time instead of being groped.  It was his understanding that the policy had been expanded to all people at a later time, and he was asking for the allowance that he understood was available to all.  He was not looking for extraordinary or exceptional treatment... just treatment that he believed his team had negotiated for all to take advantage of.

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Re: Rand Paul vs. TSA
« Reply #49 on: January 25, 2012, 06:27:19 AM »
I'm late to this party and don't have anything particularly original to add. Just this: I don't fly. I do what I have to do to avoid the TSA. The fact that an entire federal agency exists for the purpose of ridiculously ineffective security theater designed to make cowards feel better is repugnant to me.  The need to feel safer (without actually being safer) is something people ought to be embarrassed of. It is not something that should be used to justify violating constitutionally protected rights. Being subject to "random" (and I ain't bad-looking and tend to ooze attitude when .gov drones are busy showing how much control they have over me, so it's anyone's guess how random "random" would be) invasive searches is not reasonable and therefore violates my rights to travel freely and to be free from unreasonable searches.

I'm a single mom with not a whole lot of cash to spare. If I make a scene at an airport, I'm taking on an unacceptable level of personal risk. Therefore I don't go. Could be at some point I'll decide the travel is worth it. Two road trips to NOLA, one to CO, and one to NY (including twenty hour drive over ice-coated roads) later, I haven't gotten to that point yet. But I'm grateful to anyone who has the money/power/exposure to be willing to cause headaches for the TSA. If more congressmen would create a stir over security, it could only be a good thing. Not as good as if every American who thinks the TSA is fos made trouble, but still a good thing.

Seriously? We the little people can't afford to make a stink about it, and Congressmen shouldn't because somehow when they demand reasonable treatment they're being elitist scmucks? Really? That's a great way to ensure the TSA continues to thrive and grow in its size and ludicrosity.  Any bar, any cross, any impediment anyone at all throws at the TSA is valuable. Even if congresscritters are involved.