Rand Paul vs. TSA

[Stand_watie]

I'm late to this party and don't have anything particularly original to add. Just this: I don't fly. I do what I have to do to avoid the TSA. The fact that an entire federal agency exists for the purpose of ridiculously ineffective security theater designed to make cowards feel better is repugnant to me.  The need to feel safer (without actually being safer) is something people ought to be embarrassed of. It is not something that should be used to justify violating constitutionally protected rights. Being subject to "random" (and I ain't bad-looking and tend to ooze attitude when .gov drones are busy showing how much control they have over me, so it's anyone's guess how random "random" would be) invasive searches is not reasonable and therefore violates my rights to travel freely and to be free from unreasonable searches.

I'm a single mom with not a whole lot of cash to spare. If I make a scene at an airport, I'm taking on an unacceptable level of personal risk. Therefore I don't go. Could be at some point I'll decide the travel is worth it. Two road trips to NOLA, one to CO, and one to NY (including twenty hour drive over ice-coated roads) later, I haven't gotten to that point yet. But I'm grateful to anyone who has the money/power/exposure to be willing to cause headaches for the TSA. If more congressmen would create a stir over security, it could only be a good thing. Not as good as if every American who thinks the TSA is fos made trouble, but still a good thing.

Seriously? We the little people can't afford to make a stink about it, and Congressmen shouldn't because somehow when they demand reasonable treatment they're being elitist scmucks? Really? That's a great way to ensure the TSA continues to thrive and grow in its size and ludicrosity.  Any bar, any cross, any impediment anyone at all throws at the TSA is valuable. Even if congresscritters are involved.

That's good. You should print that on t-shirts and sell at the airport.

[RevDisk]

I concur with BridgeRunner. Anyone that hinders the TSA's activity against the American citizenry or publicly exposes their incompetence is a good guy. Regardless of the circumstances.

[RocketMan]

Well said, BridgeRunner.

[BridgeRunner]

Well thanks, guys. Just rambling :)

[zahc]

The "I'll just drive" dodge is only good for those whose livelihood doesn't depend on flying. And it's only going to work for a short time, until TSA can get a stronger presence on the roads too. Just give it a couple truck/train bombings and a few years of budget increases, and it won't be so easy to sidestep. The whole "well I don't fly" thing is basically the "I didn't stand up when the came for the X" meme all over again.

[Fitz]

The "I'll just drive" dodge is only good for those whose livelihood doesn't depend on flying. And it's only going to work for a short time, until TSA can get a stronger presence on the roads too. Just give it a couple truck/train bombings and a few years of budget increases, and it won't be so easy to sidestep. The whole "well I don't fly" thing is basically the "I didn't stand up when the came for the X" meme all over again.

This. We must oppose these measures EVERYWHERE, not just avoid the mode of transportation. Because once they've locked down one mode, they'll start working on the others.

It's only a small step from "random vehicle checkpoints for TERRORISTS!!!!!111oneoneeeleleven" to "Papieren, bitte" for everyone

[Blakenzy]

They ARE already working other modes of transportation with their VIPR program (Visible Intermodal Prevention and Response). Haha, they probably thought that acronym sounded sooo cool when they came up with it... what dweebs.

Anyway, there doesn't even have to be an actual truck/train bombing to expand this nationwide. All they have to do is say they caught a truck with explosives with some random brown guy driving it, and then say "See!! We saved lives!!! Time for us to be on all highways, and byways..." and that is it.

[BridgeRunner]

Eh, it's less "...when they came for x" and more "I don't participate in tyranny when I can avoid it."

Of course, I'm lucky in that I'm young--I wasn't locked into a career where flying is essential. I didn't go to law school by accident. Lot of flexibility, even if the market does suck.

But I don't know where in "any bar, any cross, any impediment, etc." you guys are reading "eh, it's fine so long as I don't fly".

My apologies for not buying a ticket and showing up for the express purpose of refusing to participate right in their faces? I mean, I'll be happy to do so, when my kids are a bit older, soon as Allan Gura agrees to represent me.

What would you have me do? "I didn't stand up because I wasn't a Jew"? Come on, did you really have to Godwin my statement that I find the TSA repugnant and avoid them as much I can? 

I'm just not sure what you are arguing for. I support any and all action towards the dismantling of the TSA; I'm not sure how is somehow mitigated by also not participating in it.  How exactly does NOT avoiding flying do anything towards the destruction of the TSA?

[Fitz]

Eh, it's less "...when they came for x" and more "I don't participate in tyranny when I can avoid it."

Of course, I'm lucky in that I'm young--I wasn't locked into a career where flying is essential. I didn't go to law school by accident. Lot of flexibility, even if the market does suck.

But I don't know where in "any bar, any cross, any impediment, etc." you guys are reading "eh, it's fine so long as I don't fly".

My apologies for not buying a ticket and showing up for the express purpose of refusing to participate right in their faces? I mean, I'll be happy to do so, when my kids are a bit older, soon as Allan Gura agrees to represent me.

What would you have me do? "I didn't stand up because I wasn't a Jew"? Come on, did you really have to Godwin my statement that I find the TSA repugnant and avoid them as much I can? 

I'm just not sure what you are arguing for. I support any and all action towards the dismantling of the TSA; I'm not sure how is somehow mitigated by also not participating in it.  How exactly does NOT avoiding flying do anything towards the destruction of the TSA?

Sigh

No one was godwinning anything. It was an extension of the conversation. No one was singling you out.

You should relax

[zahc]

I wasn't attacking you. I was just saying that I hate it when people dismiss oppression because it does not effect them, or because they, due to some circumstance or privilege, are able to work around it.

For example, many people think that concealed carry laws are pretty good because they are able to not patronize or just avoid establishments that prohibit legal concealed carry. But some people, like me, happen to work at such an establishments. If everyone was affected to the extent that I am, we would have a much stronger lobby for improving concealed carry laws. Similar if every US citizen had to fly every day, like some do.

[BridgeRunner]

Sigh.

What makes you think I'm not relaxed? :)

Nah, I'm not upset, but I am making, if you will, an extension of the argument. Ok, and laying a little bait so's to get in the following.

The trouble I see here is a false dichotomy.  Not flying is not the same thing ignoring the whole of the problem.
 
I hear the comparison to concealed carry laws. Actually, I'm intimately familiar with the problem, having written a law school paper on how MI's CPL law unconstitutionally violates the due process rights of people with mental illness. Posted about it too, a couple years back.

But saying that not flying is to negligently ignore the problem is to suggest that no one should carry concealed anywhere until everyone can, everywhere. No, not flying is not the solution.  But it's not the anti-solution or undermining of a potential solution either.

The point of my post wasn't "we should solve the problem by not flying. I don't and you shouldn't either." It was: th

The enormity of the problem is such that I don't fly, and fully support anyone who is a position to undermine the TSA, however incrementally.

[Fitz]

Sigh.

What makes you think I'm not relaxed? :)

My apologies for not buying a ticket and showing up for the express purpose of refusing to participate right in their faces?

What would you have me do? "I didn't stand up because I wasn't a Jew"? Come on, did you really have to Godwin my statement that I find the TSA repugnant and avoid them as much I can? 

[BridgeRunner]

Hm. Ok. First, the reason there's a ? At the end of that first is to indicate an enquiring tone. Possibly too subtle. 

The second part, well that's a question. I asked it because I'm interested in people's answers. I'm weird, see. By and large I'm here--esp. in Politics--for the purpose of being pursuaded. Still hoping for an answer, if we can stop discussing my alleged pissy mood and get back to topic.

As for the Godwin comment, well, I calls 'em as I sees 'em. It's not a classic Godwin, but it isn't a well-reasoned comparison, either, nor does it respond to what I actually said.  Thus I inferred an appeal to the emotional pull of the Niemoller quote.  Instead of succumbing to it, I refuted it by recharacterizing it. From anti-Nazi negligent compliance emotional appeal to classic internet misdirection.

So that's what that is.  I'm still hoping for some suggestions on what to do re the TSA.  Other than not not flying, because I just don't see the point. Unless Gura's open to discussing finding a test case, that is.

[Fitz]

Jesus.


Never mind.

Forget i said anything.