Judge rules NYC Terry stops unconstitutional.

[Ryan in Maine]

That's basically what they are right? An escalating Terry stop?

Most folks can determine that it was unconstitutional if they've read the words of the 4A. Some folks could even see the 5A implications.

But not Bloomberg. He is appealing the decision. Errr I mean the city is appealing the decision.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/13/nyregion/stop-and-frisk-practice-violated-rights-judge-rules.html


That stats that the NYCLU cites from the NYPD's own reports show a pretty obvious upscaling over the years.

http://www.nyclu.org/content/stop-and-frisk-data

The sad part is that it seems it's only coming to a stop because of the racial profiling aspect. Though I could just be mistaken since minorities, being the primary target, also have provided the primary response.

[Hawkmoon]

They aren't really Terry stops, because they aren't conducted on the basis of any genuine "reasonable suspicion based on clearly articulable facts."

The NYPD also established quotas for them, and that was already against a state law.

Unfortunately, however, they aren't coming to a stop. They are going to be "modified" under the supervision of a special referee appointed by the judge. A referee who happens to be a former prosecutor. Why do I see visions of foxes guarding hen houses?

[lupinus]

Unfortunately, however, they aren't coming to a stop. They are going to be "modified" under the supervision of a special referee appointed by the judge. A referee who happens to be a former prosecutor. Why do I see visions of foxes guarding hen houses?

Well of course. It's only evil because it targets minorities, you see. If we just increase the program and get more frisky with the white folk, then there's no discrimination!

[HankB]

One of my Dad's friends would probably SEEK OUT these stop-and-frisk of stops.

You see, he was one of those rare individuals immune to the effects of poison ivy . . . 

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

One of my Dad's friends would probably SEEK OUT these stop-and-frisk of stops.

You see, he was one of those rare individuals immune to the effects of poison ivy . . . 

oh my
what an evil mind
and i am another one of those immune folks   

[RoadKingLarry]

Just how rare is that? I've used that immunity myself a time or two in my younger days.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Just how rare is that? I've used that immunity myself a time or two in my younger days.

don't know how rare

got a good beating for handing another scout a hand full of leaves when nature called

it was the only time i deliberately used my power for evil
so far

[dogmush]

So.....What happens if you say no to the frisk?

Arrest?

[Tallpine]

So.....What happens if you say no to the frisk?

Arrest?

You get beaten, tazered, and shot.

[dogmush]

I know it's NYC but still.....I'm a little floored.  They were just walking around frisking random folks for no reason other then a bulge.........for a decade? And no one told them to FOAD?


To hell with the microwave radar van.  Who cares if they x-ray you when they can just stop you and frisk you.  My Army buddies didn't understand why I refused to go to NY on our recent 3 day pass.  The whole place is BS. 

How much do you think we'd have to offer Putin to nuke it?.....It's the only way to be sure.

[makattak]

don't know how rare

got a good beating for handing another scout a hand full of leaves when nature called

it was the only time i deliberately used my power for evil
so far

I'm rather curious to its rarity as I am yet another one immune.

[Levant]

I'm immune to poison ivy, too.

As for Terry stops, I won't be happy until all forms are declared unconstitutional.

[roo_ster]

Well of course. It's only evil because it targets minorities, you see. If we just increase the program and get more frisky with the white folk, then there's no discrimination!

I know it's NYC but still.....I'm a little floored.  They were just walking around frisking random folks for no reason other then a bulge.........for a decade? And no one told them to FOAD?


To hell with the microwave radar van.  Who cares if they x-ray you when they can just stop you and frisk you.  My Army buddies didn't understand why I refused to go to NY on our recent 3 day pass.  The whole place is BS. 

How much do you think we'd have to offer Putin to nuke it?.....It's the only way to be sure.

You must understand that NYC is special, full of special people.  IOW, liberals and lefties live there in great concentration.  Liberals who find black and brown people scary and want them gone from Manhattan and any neighborhood outside Manhattan they might want to gentrify.  Since liberals are deemed GOOD by merely holding GOOD intentions and positions(1) they can do this without being discriminatory, because discrimination is BAD done only by BAD conservatives.  And those BAD people need their faces rubbed into the sort of "diversity" of the surly, poor, and criminally-inclined minorities that have been cleansed from Manhattan.

Besides, lefties want the cool urban experience without being mugged.  Heck, they DESERVE to live in a "vibrant" neighborhood without too many scary poor minorities due to the fact that they are of the left.  Matter of fact, they consider it their right to not have to pay for excellent private schools and instead set up a dreadfully complex alternate/shadow NYC public school system that has enough bureaucratic and testing barriers to entry such that they can keep out all the dumb underprivileged minorities.







(1) "Minorities are oppressed by white people and ought to get affirmative action, welfare, and free daycare Head Start.  I love black people as a 'people.' <insert air quotes> Of course, individual black people who did not attend Columbia University with me are pretty scary."

[T.O.M.]

I'm immune to poison ivy, too.

As for Terry stops, I won't be happy until all forms are declared unconstitutional.

Add me to the immunity list.  Interesting how many of us there are here at APS.

As to Terry stops, if they were actually done as SCOTUS authorized in the Terry decision, it wouldn't be a problem.  Expanding it and twisting the original intent of the decision is where problems have cropped up.  I don't have an issue with an officer observing what is apparent to be a guy casing a stop-and-rob at midnight and doing a Terry stop.  But when you are doing a Terry stop on a guy because he's walking in a neighborhood after dark, or wearing a hoodie, etc., it's gone too far.

[Levant]

Add me to the immunity list.  Interesting how many of us there are here at APS.

As to Terry stops, if they were actually done as SCOTUS authorized in the Terry decision, it wouldn't be a problem.  Expanding it and twisting the original intent of the decision is where problems have cropped up.  I don't have an issue with an officer observing what is apparent to be a guy casing a stop-and-rob at midnight and doing a Terry stop.  But when you are doing a Terry stop on a guy because he's walking in a neighborhood after dark, or wearing a hoodie, etc., it's gone too far.

Or a non-alcohol-or-drug, non-collision, traffic stop.

I still think any form of Terry stop would have the founders turning in their graves but regardless of what the standard is, it takes an individual cop to abuse it. Just because the department or the courts would let them get away with it does not mean the street cop actually has to do it.

[Cliffh]

I've got an acquired immunity, working with poison oak daily for 4 years in sleeveless T's - get used to it or suffer.

How many millions of people are in New York?  And the cops were able to do this for ~10 years?  It's almost unbelievable.

Too lazy to look up links.  Radio boy was giving out stat's on percentage of crimes committed by race.  Seems as if, in New York, greater than 80% of the major crimes are committed by other-than-white races. 

Personally, I think these stops were unconstitutional and need to be stopped.  This *expletive deleted*it is getting out of hand.  I'd sure hate to see it spread; the results would not be pretty.  Law abiding people dodging & hiding from the cops everywhere they go.  Or not.  Either way, not pretty.

[Balog]

It went on for so long because 1. it's effective and 2. it happened in a rich white liberal city to poor black and brown folks that the liberals are afeared of.

[Scout26]

You must understand that NYC is special, full of special people.  IOW, liberals and lefties live there in great concentration.  Liberals who find black and brown people scary and want them gone from Manhattan and any neighborhood outside Manhattan they might want to gentrify.  Since liberals are deemed GOOD by merely holding GOOD intentions and positions(1) they can do this without being discriminatory, because discrimination is BAD done only by BAD conservatives.  And those BAD people need their faces rubbed into the sort of "diversity" of the surly, poor, and criminally-inclined minorities that have been cleansed from Manhattan.

Besides, lefties want the cool urban experience without being mugged.  Heck, they DESERVE to live in a "vibrant" neighborhood without too many scary poor minorities due to the fact that they are of the left.  Matter of fact, they consider it their right to not have to pay for excellent private schools and instead set up a dreadfully complex alternate/shadow NYC public school system that has enough bureaucratic and testing barriers to entry such that they can keep out all the dumb underprivileged minorities.







(1) "Minorities are oppressed by white people and ought to get affirmative action, welfare, and free daycare Head Start.  I love black people as a 'people.' <insert air quotes> Of course, individual black people who did not attend Columbia University with me are pretty scary."

You forgot to mention that they love the "diversity" of having various ethnic restaurants and shops in their neighborhoods, as long as the owners and workers go back to their hovels in anywhere-but-Manhatten to live.  "Ethnics" can only work in Manhatten, but live there ??      Pfffftttt.

[roo_ster]

It went on for so long because 1. it's effective and 2. it happened in a rich white liberal city to poor black and brown folks that the liberals are afeared of.

Bingo.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Bingo.

do you squint or close your eyes completely to make that work?
you pale folks are a minority in nyc

and rich?  hmmmm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_New_York_City

[roo_ster]

do you squint or close your eyes completely to make that work?
you pale folks are a minority in nyc

and rich?  hmmmm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_New_York_City

Manhattan is majority white/jewish.  Brooklyn & Queens are not quite majority white and have gotten whiter since 2000.  Staten Island is super-majority white.  Bronx is super-majority Non-asian minority.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_profile_of_New_York_City#By_borough

Also, affluent (UMC+) white/jewish liberals wield the most power, so calling it a "rich white liberal city" is a fair cop.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

2 boroughs outa 5 and a 44% total pale population and you claim its rich white city?  you see what the poverty rate is?

and lookie here
each borough that had the most stops last year — Brooklyn’s 75th Pct. (East New York), the Bronx’s 40th Pct. (Mott Haven), Queens’ 103rd Pct. (Jamaica), Staten Island’s 120th Pct. (St. George), and Manhattan’s 23rd Pct. (East Harlem).

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nypd-cops-wear-body-cams-article-1.1425121#ixzz2bzUWnyle
  you really wanna know why it went on so long?  you guys had it 1/2 right

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/16/stop-and-frisk-poll-shows-nypd-racially-divided_n_1788576.html

bold mine
The Quinnipiac University survey found that 57 percent of white city voters approve of the Police Department's practice of detaining and sometimes searching anyone officers deem suspicious. But only 25 percent of black voters surveyed said they approve of the policy, which affects many more minorities than white residents. Of those surveyed, 53 percent of Hispanics said they approve of the practice.

The NYPD stopped close to 700,000 people on the street last year. Nearly 87 percent were black or Hispanic, and about half were frisked. About 10 percent were arrested.

Mayor Michael Bloomberg argues that the program is an indispensable tool in the fight against illegal guns. But critics argue the practice unfairly targets minorities.

Overall approval for stop and frisk was at 45 percent, while disapproval was at 50 percent. Some 64 percent of voters said they approve of Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly's job performance. His approval among whites was at 77 percent, while among blacks, it was at 51 percent.



and there is this

According to the latest Marist poll, which is the only indication of where we hold in 2013, Jewish registered voters make up 15 percent of the overall registered voters in NYC. In party affiliation - Jews make up 16%  of the electorate among registered Democratic voters and 21% among Republicans.

[Levant]

It went on for so long because 1. it's effective and 2. it happened in a rich white liberal city to poor black and brown folks that the liberals are afeared of.

Hammer... meet nail.

[Levant]

Manhattan is majority white/jewish.  Brooklyn & Queens are not quite majority white and have gotten whiter since 2000.  Staten Island is super-majority white.  Bronx is super-majority Non-asian minority.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_profile_of_New_York_City#By_borough

Also, affluent (UMC+) white/jewish liberals wield the most power, so calling it a "rich white liberal city" is a fair cop.

Ummmm.. I don't see Jewish listed on your reference.  Can you back up that claim?  Or explain the significance of it?

[gunsmith]

My brother was a cop in NYC when the stop/frisk policy started under Rudy, He loved it.
All the cops loved it.

Basically, cops know what the neighborhood criminals look like.
You stop the saggy pants dude with the long T shirt on - most times he had a warrant or contraband.

If you didn't like it you could choose not to dress like a criminal.

But, yeah Unconstitutional, everyone knows it, but NY gun laws are unconstitutional too. You would support stop and frisk if you lived there because it hampers the criminals. Unless you had a ccw - but you couldn't because you need to be Trump to get a NYC ccw.