Washington Post, or Daily Worker?

[Ben]

You be the judge:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/in-theory/wp/2015/09/30/tired-of-capitalism-lets-try-basic-income/

True freedom requires freedom from destitution and freedom from the demands of the employer. Capitalism ensures neither, but a universal basic income, if successful, could provide both.

[grampster]

Actually, someone should explain to the moron reporter that freedom means being exposed to the vagaries of life on a daily basis.  Wait, wait....someone should have the Treasury order up a printing of enough dollars to pay off the national debt and then give a million dollars to everyone.  Problem solved...

[vaskidmark]

Capitalism is a coercive economic system that creates persistent patterns of economic deprivation.

Governments have typically dealt with capitalism’s more misery-inducing tendencies by creating institutions of labor protection — such as the right to organize unions — and by building out modern welfare states. Although these policy programs have been fairly successful, especially in the countries that have pushed them the furthest, they have not fully eliminated coercion and deprivation. To secure freedom and prosperity for all, it may ultimately be necessary to supplement the welfare state with a universal basic income — a program that would provide all citizens with a basic level of financial support, regardless of whether they’re employed.

I'm liking the Eskimo version of socialism more and more.

Anybody want to do the math figuring out how many 25 square mile ice floes would be needed for the FSA?

An end to deprivation.  An end to misery.  An end to coercion.

Add to that an end to the incessant whining about what "the world owes me" and I'm seeing pretty much no down side.

stay safe.

[makattak]

Sure, I'll support Universal Basic Income. Cut EVERY other form of welfare and transfer payments first (by cut I mean eliminate) and then guarantee something that costs less than that. (Say, $8,000 for example.)

[brimic]

Wow, that article hits almost all of the tenets of the Communist Manifesto. Fools like that should be shouted down, mocked, and be pelted with rotten produce wherever they are seen for their attempted sale of venomous snake oil.

If the author is 'tired of capitalism', him and like minded individuals should pool all of their own resources together and share them amongst themselves- there have to be millions of them in this country, then get back to us 6 months later and tell us how it worked out.

[Angel Eyes]

They don't call the WaPo "Pravda on the Potomac" for nothing.

[230RN]

Noodling it over....

"True freedom requires freedom from destitution and freedom from the demands of the employer"

I've heard that argument before in the form of "freedom from want."

But it doesn't mean "freedom from work" --somebody has to do it --which ultimately forces us into a slave-based economy to generate needed things.  Like bridges and roads and food and water treatment plants.

I'm not clear on this, so don't clobber me on it, but don't some of the emergency powers of the government allow it to force people en mass to migrate and do required jobs?

Maybe someone in the government wants to precipitate that national emergency to plunge us into that kind of slave based economy.  Where the "freedom from want" actually exists.

Unless you "want" to build houses instead of plow fields --for the greater good.

And "the employer" is actually the government.

Just noodling it over.  I take no genuine responsibility when my brain just wants to massage this kind of thing.

Terry

[brimic]

Noodling it over....

"True freedom requires freedom from destitution and freedom from the demands of the employer"

I've heard that argument before in the form of "freedom from want."

But it doesn't mean "freedom from work" --somebody has to do it --which ultimately forces us into a slave-based economy to generate needed things.  Like bridges and roads and food and water treatment plants.

I'm not clear on this, so don't clobber me on it, but don't some of the emergency powers of the government allow it to force people en mass to migrate and do required jobs?

Maybe someone in the government wants to precipitate that national emergency to plunge us into that kind of slave based economy.  Where the "freedom from want" actually exists.

Unless you "want" to build houses instead of plow fields --for the greater good.

And "the employer" is actually the government.

Just noodling it over.  I take no genuine responsibility when my brain just wants to massage this kind of thing.

Terry

Obamacare is 'a writ large freedom from want' fraud.

[RoadKingLarry]

Anybody want to do the math figuring out how many 25 square mile ice floes would be needed for the FSA?

That's too easy....

ONE.

[MechAg94]

Freedom from Want is easy.  Big Govt will just tell you what you really want.  Which also happens to coincide with what the govt gives you. 

Noodling it over....

"True freedom requires freedom from destitution and freedom from the demands of the employer"

I've heard that argument before in the form of "freedom from want."

But it doesn't mean "freedom from work" --somebody has to do it --which ultimately forces us into a slave-based economy to generate needed things.  Like bridges and roads and food and water treatment plants.

I'm not clear on this, so don't clobber me on it, but don't some of the emergency powers of the government allow it to force people en mass to migrate and do required jobs?

Maybe someone in the government wants to precipitate that national emergency to plunge us into that kind of slave based economy.  Where the "freedom from want" actually exists.

Unless you "want" to build houses instead of plow fields --for the greater good.

And "the employer" is actually the government.

Just noodling it over.  I take no genuine responsibility when my brain just wants to massage this kind of thing.

Terry

[Firethorn]

Sure, I'll support Universal Basic Income. Cut EVERY other form of welfare and transfer payments first (by cut I mean eliminate) and then guarantee something that costs less than that. (Say, $8,000 for example.)

This is where I am with it.  I support a UBI on the basis of eliminating ALL other forms of welfare, including social security.  $6-8k per adult, children pro-rated. 

One problem I have with some supporters/detractors is that they seem to have this idea that the BIG/UBI would have to be large enough for a single person to live alone.

As we should all know, a household is 'cheaper by the dozen' - $12k is rough living for a single person, $24k is decent for 2, $48k for four and you have no problems.