What A Commercial!!!!!!!!!

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

they could do a series of those one vet after another.

[The Annoyed Man]

I can tell you one thing for sure. American soldiers dying and our goverment creating massive debt is not worth the freedom of any foreigner. We should defend only ourselves. All other people should either fight for their own freedom or be damned.

It's a good thing the French didn't see things that way back in the 1780s.

They didn't see it that way during the 1790s:

The French had a very bloody revolution when they went back home. As it turns out, while they were away fighting for someone else's freedom in the service of King Louis XVI, things went sour back at the ranch. They really couldn't afford to send the troops in the first place, as King Louis XV had bankrupted the treasury.

Just have to throw that in there, because, if you want to compare us to the French, we should know their history (and, no, not just the parts we like) before we're 'doomed to repeat it.' You'll find that some contributing factors of our own revolution can be traced back to deficits accrued while fighting native tribes along the Appalacia during the French and Indian War. I see parallels forming.

I don't dispute that it would have been a very, very tough fight for us in the war for independence had the French not jumped in, if it would have been winnable at all.

Yet, when you compare how strongly we wanted freedom and the steps we took to get there (from fighting a better-equipped contingent of British troops at Lexington and Concord to winning a decisive victory at Saratoga before the French would even consider sending troops), versus how very little the Iraqis ever demonstrated any action towards deposing their tyrant, well . . . aside from a few Kurdish tribes in norther Iraq, I'm not convinced that there are a lot of Iraqis that have the will to sacrifice to obtain freedom as the veteran in this 'commercial.' Perhaps they value life more than liberty, which is their decision, which is fine unless they expect someone else to die for their freedom.

Besides, Saddamn has been gone for a few years now. If the Iraqis want sovereign control of their country, there's nothing holding them back.

Or, is there? 

[Ezekiel]

"This commercial was done by a local kid. You have to watch the whole thing. When he finishes talking and walks away, you get a sense of how this could be the commercial of the campaign season.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TG4fe9GlWS8

Actually, the propaganda was nearly enough to make me vomit.  He should have said:

"After spending 12 months deployed to somewhere I never should have been, in a desperate attempt to validate myself and the needless death of others, I have lost -- if I ever possessed -- the ability to independently analyze our/my actions."  He's a dumbass: noble(?) sacrifice does not impart validity to an action.

To compare Iraq (himself) and Vietnam (McCain) is valid, but it only leads to two, possible, conclusions.  Either the two (Iraq/Vietnam) are not alike (undermining his "McCain knows worthy sacrifice" self-drama), or both are a quagmire (meaning "McCain knows unworthy sacrifice," like me).  Either way, bad news.

Or, I guess, he could be one of the nutjobs that thinks Vietnam was actually good for our safety, psyche, and that we actually defended something...  Which means that this deluded uber-patriot likely supports other idiotic land wars in Asia...

1.  If the Iraqi people want "freedom to prosper," it is THEIR burden to achieve it.

2.  Are Iraqis better today than 2002?  What about Americans?

3.  And, YES, you DO rescue a fireman, if the strategic cost is too big.  (Further, when did troops become firemen?)

4.  When the Iraqi psuedo-war is called a "mistake," you dishonor nobody, and PROTECT those that could be asked to sacrifice and die to invest further in the rabbit hole.

5.  Freedom carries a price, but Iraqi freedom is not our price to bear.  Further, it is not as if we are there to promote "freedom."  In fact, as long as we're there, their not free: oxymoron.

He can vote for whom he desires, but this guy needs an enema and patriotic detox.

[The Annoyed Man]

I don't think the vet in the youtube clip is a 'dumbass.' In fact, I genuinely think he believes in his heart that he is doing the right thing.

I do, however, question the motives of his commander in chief, who, probably fits your title.

[Ezekiel]

I don't think the vet in the youtube clip is a 'dumbass.' In fact, I genuinely think he believes in his heart that he is doing the right thing.

I do, however, question the motives of his commander in chief, who, probably fits your title.

I see your point: I was harsh.

But the fact that, even removed, he cannot see the idiocy, is his burden to carry.

It smacks of either brainwashing, or low IQ, to graft nobility onto something in order to justify it.

[wmenorr67]

It smacks of either brainwashing, or low IQ, to graft nobility onto something in order to justify it.

Being that youtube is blocked on government systems I have not seen the video in question.  However, Zeke are you trying to say that you have either been brainwashed or have a low IQ to be in the military?  I hope not.

[Ezekiel]

It smacks of either brainwashing, or low IQ, to graft nobility onto something in order to justify it.

Being that youtube is blocked on government systems I have not seen the video in question.  However, Zeke are you trying to say that you have either been brainwashed or have a low IQ to be in the military?  I hope not.

I 100% am NOT.

But this guy refuses to think.  At all.  About anything.

Bureaucracy does that to people, so folks generate "justifications."  Like, for example, "I, and others like me, am heroic and our Mission is grand."

[K Frame]

Actually, you are.

The guy obviously has thought about it. Long and hard, and sees a very different picture.

You decry him for "justifying" what is going on.

You're no different.

YOUR blatant justification, though, which you're applying to justify your position, is that you are somehow free of the "brainwashing" and "low IQ" you claim to be necessary to hold the convictions that this individual holds.

What you're doing is no different than what you're accusing this guy of doing.

What's pathetic, though, is that your IQ isn't quite high enough to realize that you're doing it, and you, or someone else, has brainwashed you into believing that you're somehow the only person who is thinking clearly about the subject.

How... cute. 

[K Frame]

"There's probably a cheaper way of dealing with them than our current plan."

Until one of them gets hold of a nuclear device.

I hold no illusions at all. Unless there is active and protractive efforts to prevent it, that WILL happen.

Sometimes going the cheap route is the WORST possible thing you can do.

Hell, the United States found that out in the run in to World War II.

And the MS-13 analogy is not applicable or valid.

MS-13 has never given, as its primary professed aim, domination of the entire world (Nazis) or the destruction of the United States (Islamic terrorists).

[Ezekiel]

The guy obviously has thought about it. Long and hard, and sees a very different picture.

Sure.  He's just wrong.

You decry him for "justifying" what is going on.

Yes.

You're no different.

Oh, we're vastly different.

YOUR blatant justification, though, which you're applying to justify your position, is that you are somehow free of the "brainwashing" and "low IQ" you claim to be necessary to hold the convictions that this individual holds.

I presume that MANY people are.

What you're doing is no different than what you're accusing this guy of doing.

Other than the inherent validity of being right.

What's pathetic, though, is that your IQ isn't quite high enough to realize that you're doing it, and you, or someone else, has brainwashed you into believing that you're somehow the only person who is thinking clearly about the subject.

Oh, there are MANY others.

How... cute.

Ah, yes.  One of those posts I find to be somewhat humorous.

[Boomhauer]

Sometimes going the cheap route is the WORST possible thing you can do.

Hell, the United States found that out in the run in to World War II.

Consider the airplanes and tanks that we had at the beginning of and throughout the war. The Axis developed pretty good airplanes, and the Germans went on to build some pretty good tanks and they revolutionized armored warfare.

Before WWII, we tried to save money by buying the cheapest airplanes. The Germans had the Bf-109. Not the best, but good enough. The Japanese had the Zero. Both outfought our fighters at the beginning of the war. The Zero was a very rude shock.

We tried to save money by sticking with pathetic tanks. We went up against the Germans in the hedgrow with the POS M4 Sherman, which fared extremely poorly against the superior German armor. A lot of US tankers lost their lives thanks to the decisions of people like Patton, who thought that the speed of the M4 would make up for its great shortcomings. Fortunatly, our massive number of tanks coupled with supporting forces (tank destroyers, air, infantry, and artillery) made up for it, but at a cost.

We had serious problems early in the war due to very poor equipment because we thought that we wouldn't get involved in another world war, and we were reluctant to spend the money necessary for modern equipment that was the equivalent or better than Axis equipment.

In regards to the aircraft, we did produce better once the war started, and we were much better off towards the end of the war, plus, our supply of capable pilots did not suffer like the Axis countries did, and we had plenty of fuel.

As for the tanks, we basically stuck with the M4. We did produce the M-26 towards the end of the war, but not in the huge numbers we did with the M4. By the time it came into service, the war was pretty much over.

MS-13 has never given, as its primary professed aim, domination of the entire world (Nazis) or the destruction of the United States (Islamic terrorists).

Islamic terrorists desire domination of the entire world. Currently, one of their major goals is the destruction of the United States. Because we are one of their greatest obstacles.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

What you're doing is no different than what you're accusing this guy of doing.

Other than the inherent validity of being right.

Don't you see?  You claim that you're different from them, because you're right.  You aren't brainwashed, you're the only one who's thinking.  And yet, the only reason you ever seem give in support of your positions is "just because". 

You just repeat the same (erroneous) declarations over and over again, as if repetition amounts to intelligent thought. 

Mike has you dead to rights.  It isn't the Iraqi vet who demonstrates low IQ and brainwashing, it's you.

[Ezekiel]

It isn't the Iraqi vet who demonstrates low IQ and brainwashing, it's you.

By not thinking as an Iraqi vet?  Odd.

[K Frame]

Ezekiel,

Before you post again, check your PMs.

[Intune]

Zeke-

...this guy needs an enema and patriotic detox.

I have always heard that there is a small, dedicated group of folks out there who are seriously dedicated to their colonics and recommend them as a pleasurable remedy for anything from a toothache to baldness.  If the tube fits...

What I can't really fathom though is how an American could possibly link patriotism to a bowel cleansing function.  Further, and even more damaging, is the suggestion that patriotism should somehow be held in check and excess amounts flushed out with fecal matter in order to detoxify. 

I posit that it is impossible to be too patriotic in regards to one's country.  I love my country.

As an American and a veteran I am deeply offended by this portion of your post.

The man gave some reasons why he will vote McCain/Palin.  He didn't threaten me at all.  You obviously felt very differently.     

[Ex-MA Hole]

Intune,

Please accept my apologies for the views presented by a certain member of this forum.

Please reread the post above yours.  Then read into it.

I assure you it won't happen again.

If it does, it will only be once more.

Thank you for your service.  It allows people with limited brain power and thought process, as well as a basic Junior High discussion skills, to voice their (ignorant) opinion.

Best regards,

Mark

[Intune]

Thank you Sir, I considered the source.  This board has always held its members to a higher standard and is the better for it.

[Perd Hapley]

Thank you for your service.  It allows people with limited brain power and thought process, as well as a basic Junior High discussion skills, to voice their (ignorant) opinion.

Best regards,

Mark

Oh.  Snap.

[The Annoyed Man]

So, back to the topic. I was curious to see what happens when a veteran speaks out against the war in Iraq:

From the Republican National Convention: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGscsnUSBYQ

And this one, from the DNC: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PjHQfoGctU (pardon the lethargic narrator)

I must admit, these kinds of things hit my patriotic nerves more than any candidate endorsement: Veterans defend the U.S. Constitution, literally

Whether you agree with them or not, they are among the few Americans willing to hold their elected leaders accountable to their duties and promises. In a time when corrupt politicians get re-elected election, after election, after election, I find that very refreshing.

[Scout26]

Sometimes you have to suffer a small sacrifice to avoid a larger one.

Imagine what would have happened if the Britsh and French, would have said "NO" to the re-militarization of Rhineland ??  (Hitler and especially the Generals were prepared to fold like a cheap suit.)  Or Said No to Anschluss of Austria ??  Or the Sudetenland or the rest of Czechoslovakia ??  At any point WWII could have been prevented and Hitler contained.  But given the loss of life both countries suffered in WWI, they were afraid to risk confrontation with Germany.  So we got a large war instead.

Iraq is that confrontation.  Yes, it appears costly now, but we'll never what higher costs we have prevented. 

[coppertales]

You got that right, especially since the MSN was almost successful covering up the 500 metric tons of yellowcake uranium that Sadam had in Iraq.......chris3

[freedom lover]

the MSN was almost successful covering up the 500 metric tons of yellowcake uranium that Sadam had in Iraq

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25546334/

The last major remnant of Saddam Hussein's nuclear program  a huge stockpile of concentrated natural uranium  reached a Canadian port Saturday to complete a secret U.S. operation that included a two-week airlift from Baghdad and a ship voyage crossing two oceans.

The removal of 550 metric tons of "yellowcake"  the seed material for higher-grade nuclear enrichment  was a significant step toward closing the books on Saddam's nuclear legacy. It also brought relief to U.S. and Iraqi authorities who had worried the cache would reach insurgents or smugglers crossing to Iran to aid its nuclear ambitions...

I may be wrong about Saddam's efforts to get a nuke. I know the Israelis blew up a nuclear facility of his a long time ago. I'll admit, non-interventionist foreign policy can only go so far. I just don't like the idea of America being Globocop.

Who or what are the MSN?

[Intune]

Who or what are the MSN?

  MSN- Mendacious Salacious Newsthink
 

Its a shadowy group that uses a high noise-to-signal transmission that is targeted to only affect the brain function of ultra liberals.  All reports indicate an incredibly high rate of success.   

[Dntsycnt]

I can tell you one thing for sure. American soldiers dying and our goverment creating massive debt is not worth the freedom of any foreigner. We should defend only ourselves. All other people should either fight for their own freedom or be damned.

It's a good thing the French didn't see things that way back in the 1780s.

ZING!


As for the video:  Effective jab for emotional response, but not much appeal to reason.  I guess that means it's perfect for this election.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

"but not much appeal to reason." 
that means that a guy who has been there done that is not a big hit at the campus starbucks or student union,  right?