Post-election Palin - breaking free of McCain

[stevelyn]

I always thought Sarah Palin would be the perfect replacement for Uncle Ted.

[BryanP]

I'm apparently in the minority here, but I think she's a lightweight.  As much as I like her as a person, and as an ardent pro-gun supporter, I don't think she has what it takes to run this country.  

You may be in the minority, but you're not alone.  If anyone thinks she has the chops to lead a national ticket they're deluding themselves.

[ilbob]

Gig is right.

Prepare now to re-seize the Republican party.  Prepare now to re-seize Congress.  Prepare now for a new Contract with America.

Maybe the new one will last.

the last one was pretty good. the problem was that republicans did not hold their congressmen's feet to the fire when they strayed.

[agricola]

I'm apparently in the minority here, but I think she's a lightweight.  As much as I like her as a person, and as an ardent pro-gun supporter, I don't think she has what it takes to run this country.  Although I was blown away by her at the GOP convention, by the time I mailed in my ballot two weeks ago I was praying not merely for a Republican win but that McCain got his mother's longevity genes.  Four to eight years as Vice-President would be the on-the-job training she'd need, but being a two-term Governor of Alaska won't cut it.  And let us be completely frank--she was an ideological pick, a concession to the Religious Right, because McCain has opposed them in the past.  And if she were less extreme in her views, a lot more of Hillary's PUMAS would have voted Republican this year.

Jindal, OTOH, is very good possibility in four years.

Thats why I think she needs to be in the Senate - she needs more national exposure and to be seen opposing what is to come.  Otherwise she will still be that woman from Alaska.  As for whether she is a lightweight, I dont think that she is - but she does have this image problem that cannot really be fixed by another term as Governor in Alaska.

[AZRedhawk44]

I don't have a lot of faith in Palin, either.

I don't see her as a national leader if she sidled up close against McCain and compromised her positions to be on the ticket.  She wasn't a strong debater or orator.  She didn't have strongly fleshed arguments.  She was a poor interviewer.

She treated her position as Governor as a place to rectify small-town level problems... in particular her family problems.

I gots no problem with that... I like the fact that she got that particular trooper fired.

But that isn't an outlook that would be successful at the national level.  She is too microeconomic, micropolitically focused.  She doesn't see the big picture or the levers that operate the system.

Between that and the flip-flops that will come if she runs in 2012, I think she's a disaster waiting to happen.

I don't know what's in store for 2012, but somehow I suspect that we will hear back from the primary crop of 2008.  Tancredo, Giuliani, and Romney aren't done yet.  Those lame ducks will be back and drown out quality candidates in their well recognized and marketable names.

I also think Jindall won't attempt a 2012 if Obama is still around.  Race politics are still alive and well, despite the Obamessiah's ascention on high.  Jindall won't be optimal as a demographic skewer unless the Dems run a non-black.

2016 though?  Sure.  Hopefully some new blood will join him in the national scene.

[nobody's_hero]

Are we sure that the Palin craze didn't come about as one of those media fueled frenzies to get a woman in office no matter what?

I mean, I'm all for a woman president if she's qualified. Incidentally, the same reason I couldn't force myself to vote for McCain is the same reason I couldn't be certain I'd have voted for Palin, if she had been at the top of the ticket.

Let me do some research on her (real research, not the crap rumors that we saw coming out of the woodwork). Primarily, I need to be relatively convinced that a candidate will support and uphold the U.S. Constitution for them to qualify for my vote. I'm not sure what the whole "rogue" deal was there at the last minute. Maybe there's hope for her, maybe not.

[Perd Hapley]

She treated her position as Governor as a place to rectify small-town level problems... in particular her family problems.

Actually, that was just a rumor.

But I'm more or less in agreement with your assessment of Palin.  Much as I still like her, she's politically damaged goods.  What she DID do, and this is of utmost importance, is to show that a conservative inspires excitement and support, while a mealy-mouthed half-sorta-conservative (McCain) yields only the chirping of crickets. 

Unfortunately, it will be all too easy for the Republican elite to read her popularity as a factor of her sex, or as simple celebrity.  I am not hopeful that they will understand that we love her BECAUSE SHE'S LIKE US.  AND SHE THINKS LIKE US.  AND SHE VOTES LIKE US, AND GOVERNS THE WAY WE WOULD.  But that's the important role that she played.  Let's see if it's understood.

[Perd Hapley]

Primarily, I need to be relatively convinced that a candidate will support and uphold the U.S. Constitution for them to qualify for my vote.

Qualifying for your vote means nothing.  A presidential candidate doesn't need to qualify for your vote.  He needs to be elected.  I know you love the Constitution, but that document also gave us a government dependent on popular support.  Do all the research you want, but the Constitution won't be respected until we talk the people into it.  Voting for an oh-so-pure candidate does not accomplish that. 

[nobody's_hero]

Yeah, that's what it is all about, though. Winning. I can't argue with that. I just don't have to support it [the system].

[roo_ster]

Are we sure that the Palin craze didn't come about as one of those media fueled frenzies to get a woman in office no matter what?

I mean, I'm all for a woman president if she's qualified. Incidentally, the same reason I couldn't force myself to vote for McCain is the same reason I couldn't be certain I'd have voted for Palin, if she had been at the top of the ticket.

Let me do some research on her (real research, not the crap rumors that we saw coming out of the woodwork). Primarily, I need to be relatively convinced that a candidate will support and uphold the U.S. Constitution for them to qualify for my vote. I'm not sure what the whole "rogue" deal was there at the last minute. Maybe there's hope for her, maybe not.

Palin was popular with the Republican base and was (partly) used by McCain to get it on his side.  She also has a lot of attraction to other less ideological types and the MSM & BHO knew it.  Which is why they gave her both barrels in an unrelenting campaign to destroy her.  McCain's damnfool handling of her exacerbated problems, as he thought he would get a fair shake from the MSM.

As it was, it was not enough.  The base sis not turn out in full-force for McCain.  As bad as his loss is, it would have been MUCH worse had he picked a Pawlenty or other RINO to run beside him.

I would suggest searching out debates she had during her AK gov campaign and other press conferences, interviews, etc. as gov of AK.  There was good reason to bandy her name about as a possible VPOTUS by folks in the know.

[seeker_two]

Palin lost her credibility when she embraced McCain's "liberal-light" platform....until she redeems herself with a conservative run as govenor or in Congress (maybe taking Ted Steven's seat), she won't be touchable as Presidential material....

[agricola]

Actually, that was just a rumor.

But I'm more or less in agreement with your assessment of Palin.  Much as I still like her, she's politically damaged goods.  What she DID do, and this is of utmost importance, is to show that a conservative inspires excitement and support, while a mealy-mouthed half-sorta-conservative (McCain) yields only the chirping of crickets. 

Unfortunately, it will be all too easy for the Republican elite to read her popularity as a factor of her sex, or as simple celebrity.  I am not hopeful that they will understand that we love her BECAUSE SHE'S LIKE US.  AND SHE THINKS LIKE US.  AND SHE VOTES LIKE US, AND GOVERNS THE WAY WE WOULD.  But that's the important role that she played.  Let's see if it's understood.

Some views:

i) Palin may be "politically damaged", but she is not "politically dead" - yet.  At the risk of repeating myself, dont forget that the media, at the behest of the Obama campaign, went after her to an almost unprecedented level - from the whole pregnancy nonsense, to "she was only picked to appeal to women" nonsense, to the editing of interviews (which made a bad interview worse), to the highlighting of her "gaffes" (some genuine, some invented like the Pakistan question), to Tina Fey and SNL.  Her mistakes were seized upon wheras Biden (who seemed to make far more mistakes, and who had some terrible interviews) garnered far less attention, and indeed was seen as a positive pick, despite being selected for fundamentally negative reasons (Obama's blatant lack of foriegn policy experience). 
ii) if Obama gets it wrong it will be essential to have an "I told you so" candidate in 2012, when his lies will be that much more obvious, and he will actually have a record to run on.  Palin is already known, has all of her dirty laundry out in public (given that the media didnt spare any hits, it seems to me that they have everything they could have had already).  As you said, she has a fairly obvious appeal despite all the hits she recieved, in a more positive time for the GOP she could do very well.
iii) She will have to get more national exposure in order to correct some of the opinions that the media has spread about her, which is why I think she should get into the Senate asap.  Give her four years of taking potshots at Obama, Pelosi, Reid et al and a more negative time for the Dems and it should go a long way to counteracting all the guff.  If she stays in Alaska, its over.

[ronnyreagan]

McCain's camp is certainly not doing any favors for Palin...
An angry aide characterized the shopping spree as "Wasilla hillbillies looting Neiman Marcus from coast to coast"
I personally think that she did more harm than good for McCain this time around. She may do better on her own in the future, but I would be surprised.

[Perd Hapley]

agricola, I think you may be right.

Is your sig line from Yojimbo?  Seven Samurai? 

[agricola]

McCain's camp is certainly not doing any favors for Palin...
An angry aide characterized the shopping spree as "Wasilla hillbillies looting Neiman Marcus from coast to coast"
I personally think that she did more harm than good for McCain this time around. She may do better on her own in the future, but I would be surprised.

There will probably be a whole slew of stories coming out like this, released by associates of those who hope to go in 2012.

[agricola]

agricola, I think you may be right.

Is your sig line from Yojimbo?  Seven Samurai? 

The first one is from the end of Yojimbo, where Mifune comes across the peasant boy from the start of the film who thought that a short, exciting life was best.  The second one is of course from von Rundstedt, when asked by someone in Hitler's staff what they should do.

[roo_ster]

Palin lost her credibility when she embraced McCain's "liberal-light" platform....until she redeems herself with a conservative run as govenor or in Congress (maybe taking Ted Steven's seat), she won't be touchable as Presidential material....

I give her a pass as she was playing second banana.  "Team player" & all that.  If she continues to speak like McCain in a dress, yeah, I would kick her to the curb.  All VPOTUS candidates do the same thing.  Just look at Biden before & after his pick.  GHWB toed the line in the Reagan White House, but his inner wobbly came out during his 1988 campaign and during his term.

She still has a couple years in this term as governor and I expect her to win in the 2010 AK gov race.

Also, it looks like Ted Stevens, just convicted in court, has won his Senate seat.  If he goes to prison or the US Se
nate refuses to seat him, Palin will have to appoint a successor and (I think) set up a special election.

McCainiac staffers will do their best to weasel out o responsibility for running a dismal campaign.  The sooner the RINOs are taken out back and beaten, the better.


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I disagree vehemently with agricola that if she stays as AK gov, she has no future.  It is a power base of far greater magnitude than any Senate or House seat.  It is an example of executive experience.  What she has to do is what Bill Clinton did as gov of a small state, Mitt Romney did after leaving the governorship in Mass, Reagan did after leaving the CA gov, etc.:
1. Become involved in Party politics and drumming up support.
2. Lotsa trips around CONUS
3. Lotsa speaking engagements at all the Republican and conservative organizations & organs.
4. Direct involvement with the national issues of the day
5. Cultivate relationships with some Rep/conservative intellectual types.  Newt Gingrich comes to mind, as does Thomas Sowell, Walter Williams, etc.
6. Hit talk radio very hard, not just on topical issues, but a post-campaign/bio/prescription for America's future book would be just the ticket.
7. Reach out to small "L" libertarian groups like Cato as "the most libertarian prominent Republican"

A term as Senator or Congresscritter would be seriously limiting.

[agricola]

I disagree vehemently with agricola that if she stays as AK gov, she has no future.  It is a power base of far greater magnitude than any Senate or House seat.  It is an example of executive experience.  What she has to do is what Bill Clinton did as gov of a small state, Mitt Romney did after leaving the governorship in Mass, Reagan did after leaving the CA gov, etc.:
1. Become involved in Party politics and drumming up support.
2. Lotsa trips around CONUS
3. Lotsa speaking engagements at all the Republican and conservative organizations & organs.
4. Direct involvement with the national issues of the day
5. Cultivate relationships with some Rep/conservative intellectual types.  Newt Gingrich comes to mind, as does Thomas Sowell, Walter Williams, etc.
6. Hit talk radio very hard, not just on topical issues, but a post-campaign/bio/prescription for America's future book would be just the ticket.
7. Reach out to small "L" libertarian groups like Cato as "the most libertarian prominent Republican"

A term as Senator or Congresscritter would be seriously limiting.

1-3 and 6 and 7 could be done as effectively from the Senate imho, especially if the Repubs do as some here have suggested and run permanent opposition.  4 could be done more effectively from the Senate, as could 5. 

As for staying as Governor of Alaska, what more experience can she gain out there?

[charby]

As for staying as Governor of Alaska, what more experience can she gain out there?

As a Governor you gain executive experience. As a Senator you have a voting record that can be picked apart and skewed anyway the political spinsters feel like.

[MechAg94]

I agree with Agricola that the negative views of Palin are entirely a result of the media character assassination and the bumbling McCain campaign.  Whether she decides to pursue a national political career is up to her.  She isn't the only promising Republican out there.  The next election is a long way off.  I do agree that if she wants to do this again on her own, she will need to move around and build support.

[roo_ster]

1-3 and 6 and 7 could be done as effectively from the Senate imho, especially if the Repubs do as some here have suggested and run permanent opposition.  4 could be done more effectively from the Senate, as could 5. 

As for staying as Governor of Alaska, what more experience can she gain out there?

Charby nailed it: legislators generate a record of votes, 90% of which are meaningless procedural things, but can be used against you, "Voted with Senator Chomo 95% of the time!"

Governors have more limited exposure to such, but can act in material ways.

Also, a governor is the head of an executive branch with thousands of employees.  They have the autonomy to do things and direct policies in ways a legislator can not.  Being boss gives you certain privileges, too.

Then, there is the fact that America is MUCH more likely to elect a governor over a legislator.  It is the closest thing on Earth to being the POTUS and the best training for it.  The exceptions that I can recall in the last 100 years of legislators being elected without first being VPOTUS or a gov:
2008 BHO (but, bit candidates were legislators)
1960 JFK
1920 Warren G Harding

That's it.

Congress is usually a stepping stone to a governor's race, anyway.

[txgho1911]

To many men (and I am not one of them) have a problem with a skirt in charge.
I say this from the experience of hearing it from coworkers.

A casual business meeting with politics distracting a little (I mentioned the Philly intimidation nightstick) and a single mother voted for the first time ever because she really didn't want McCain to win.

Opposition in this race came from many blind corners. Support in some cases also.

Would rather have Palin than either of the 2 candidates.

[Desertdog]

Which is why they gave her both barrels in an unrelenting campaign to destroy her.

That is exactly the same treatment that any Republican running for POTUS will get.  Women and blacks will get it from the MSM as hard or harder than the Old White Guy running.

[stevelyn]

McCain's camp is certainly not doing any favors for Palin...
An angry aide characterized the shopping spree as "Wasilla hillbillies looting Neiman Marcus from coast to coast"
I personally think that she did more harm than good for McCain this time around. She may do better on her own in the future, but I would be surprised.

Pffffffft..................... McCain screwed himself long before he even considered picking Palin.

[Regolith]

2008 BHO (but, bit candidates were legislators)
1960 JFK
1920 Warren G Harding

That's it.

Congress is usually a stepping stone to a governor's race, anyway.

Yup.  And if you look at the records of JFK and Harding, you'll see that they weren't exactly stellar presidents.  And its looking like Obama is going to continue the legacy.  Of course, if McCain had been elected, he'd probably not have broken the mold either...