Wow! Shepherd Smith vs Ralph Nader, who calls Obama an Uncle Tom

[nobody's_hero]

Well, I didn't want to leave any doubt as to what the original context of "uncle tom" meant  , and since Fox news has sort of a bad habit of cutting people off before they can fully explain themselves . . .

I can't for the life of me figure out the "egg" slur that Mike was talking about. I had to go to urbandictionary.com to figure out what that one meant, and I'm still unsure, as the number-one voted up definition was the actual definition of egg.

Were you, by chance, one of these people who didn't see the need for Ron Paul to refuse that white supremacist donation?

I am, by chance, one of those people who don't buy into the whole notion that supporters define a candidate.

In short, I didn't see the need.

edited for clarification

[De Selby]

Did you read the book?  He was a mensch. 

Yes, I did read the book.  I'm not seeing specifically what was terribly inspiring from the American perspective.  Generally, when we think of breaking the bonds of tyranny we think of...the Boston Tea Party, Samuel Adams, George Washington, etc.  We don't tend to celebrate the people who gently served the monarchy and refused as a matter of principle to ever raise a hand against it.

That's why I can see where the term "uncle tom" might be used as disparaging.  In the context of slavery, you want to celebrate those who resist its evil actively and in every way possible, not those who are so gentle that their slave masters can't help but admire their obedience and good character.

[Perd Hapley]

Who said he was a champion of liberty?  He was a genuinely good, self-sacrificing guy.  Sorry if he wasn't quite as holy as thou art. 

[De Selby]

Who said he was a champion of liberty?  He was a genuinely good, self-sacrificing guy.  Sorry if he wasn't quite as holy as thou art. 

Yeah, "holy as me" and holiness were decidedly not the qualities that the users, in this context, of the term "Uncle Tom" seek to champion.

That was sort of the point, and the argument in support of using the term as a perjorative: if you are genuinely nice to your slave masters and self-sacrifice for their sake, that's in some way contributing to and accepting the continuance of the master-slave relationship.  In other words, doing evil by your gentle compliance.

I think division over the term is a matter of one's perspective on the proper response to evil.  Some people think that by simply cooperating and doing good deeds, you can defeat evil, because the evildoers will love and admire you so much.  Others are of the view that only direct confrontation and complete refusal are appropriate responses to evil, no matter the intentions of the evildoer. 

The more one views slavery as an intolerable evil that demands revolutionary and violent confrontation, the more one will see being an "uncle tom" as a bad thing, in other words. 

[Matthew Carberry]

Well, I didn't want to leave any doubt as to what the original context of "uncle tom" meant  , and since Fox news has sort of a bad habit of cutting people off before they can fully explain themselves . . .

I can't for the life of me figure out the "egg" slur that Mike was talking about. I had to go to urbandictionary.com to figure out what that one meant, and I'm still unsure, as the number-one voted up definition was the actual definition of egg.

I am, by chance, one of those people who don't buy into the whole notion that supporters define a candidate.

In short, I didn't see the need.

edited for clarification

Still not over yourself in your need to lecture on the derivation of terms that were in common use before anyone here was conceived?

Wow.

Just...   

Wow.

Next could you explain basic arithmetic?

Perhaps Heliocentrism?  Gravity?

 :rolleyes:

[nobody's_hero]

Over myself? I wasn't the one who jumped up and started playing the liberal race-card tactics the moment that someone wrote a blog on the Ralph Nader interview.   

You don't have to read my lectures. I was challenged to give the definition of an 'uncle tom' in the context in which it was meant during the interview. Whether or not anyone cares to read it is not my problem.

You don't have to use the words 'egg' or 'oreo' or 'coconut' (really?) or any other word that gets murdered by society every time we turn around. There's more than one meaning of the word bitch, but I'd like to think I'd be smart enough to figure out which one my veterinarian means when I take my dog in to see him. I bet you folks would be too, which leaves me to believe this is just more of the same race-card playing that I've seen from the liberal media.



I can't help you with arithmetic, though.

[Iain]

Reading about how Uncle Tom became a derisory term - apparently some stage productions of the book depicted him in a negative manner.

[red headed stranger]

At this point, Nader has made himself irrelevant in the political discourse. 

IMO, him saying this was a bit of attention whoring so that some news channel would take the bait. 

[Perd Hapley]

I was challenged to give the definition of an 'uncle tom' in the context in which it was meant during the interview.

Actually, no.  You claimed that others didn't know what "Uncle Tom" means.  I called you on it, and you wrote five pages of stuff we already knew.  So you wasted your time, again, the way you already wasted your time pursuing the false trail that the rest of us didn't know what "Uncle Tom" meant.


shootinstudent,

You're also missing the point.  Uncle Tom, a fictional character, was highly influential in ending slavery, by bringing an anti-slavery message to thousands of Northerners.  After all, Uncle Tom's Cabin was an anti-slavery tract, and a very popular stage play.  But it wasn't a guide to slaves (most of whom couldn't read, after all), on how to gain their freedom.  It would be quite wrong to think that Stowe was giving Black people an example of what a slave should do.  He was a symbol to Whites, that Blacks were human beings capable of good character, and a reminder that they were Christian brothers and sisters.  He also served the literary purpose of a martyr, and I seem to remember he was surrounded by quite a bit of Christ imagery.

Take a look at American history.  Slave revolts, whether John Brown's, Nat Turner's, or Denmark Vesey's, did nothing to end slavery.  In fact, the slave revolt in Haiti only made White Americans more determined to keep Black Americans in subjection.  Blacks who escaped slavery and joined the Abolitionist cause, such as Frederick Douglas, did much more to end slavery, but even their efforts could only go so far. 

And then, you would have to understand that, as a pious Christian, Tom was not primarily concerned with ending slavery.  Christian teaching has always put more value on spiritual liberty than earthly liberty, and on other's well-being that one's own.  This is why Jesus of Nazareth taught a message of spiritual salvation, and did not seem terribly concerned about the Roman yoke that his disciples perceived as a major, if not the major, problem to be overcome. 

None of which implies that revolution or violent overthrow are always wrong, or that slavery is ever right.  And you will also kindly note that I don't deny the validity of "Uncle Tom" as an epithet, in common usage.  Which is why Nader's use of the term was so callous and stupid. 

[Perd Hapley]

Reading about how Uncle Tom became a derisory term - apparently some stage productions of the book depicted him in a negative manner.

I don't know about that, but the prof told us that the book and play were extremely popular in the South, as well as the North.  In the South, Evangeline was seen as the more central character, as a symbol of Southern womanhood stained by the horrors of slave-holding.  I think they even changed the name of the play, down South, to make it more about her than about Tom.

[K Frame]

"I don't know about that, but the prof told us that the book and play were extremely popular in the South"

Beg your pardon?

The reaction to Uncle Tom's Cabin in the south, and to the author, was pretty dramatically negative.

It was banned in any number of places as abolitionist propaganda. Copies of it were burned, anyone with a copy of it could be arrested, and Stowe was professionally and personally attacked.

Stowe received hate mail for many years after publishing the book, including the most famous example, a package with a slave's severed ear.

It also resulted in a number of books defending slavery.


I can't even imagine what might have happened to actors who attempted to put this on in the South.

[Perd Hapley]

OK, then.  Perhaps I remember wrong, or my Prof was nuts. 

[Lonest@r]

Actually, no.  You claimed that others didn't know what "Uncle Tom" means.  I called you on it, and you wrote five pages of stuff we already knew. 

You're also missing the point.  Uncle Tom, a fictional character...

Maybe because the first 5 replies, including your remark about removing his hood, implied racism.

Exactly, why get so bent out of shape over a fictional character?  The Mencia video definitely applies.

I was challenged to give the definition of an 'uncle tom' in the context in which it was meant during the interview.

And I think you did a damn good job.  When I first saw video, my thoughts where that Obama can choose to make corp's be responsible (Uncle Sam), or cater to them (Uncle Tom).  I just didn't know how to explain/illustrate.
 

[Hawkmoon]

My uncle is an Uncle Tom.

His name is Thomas. Actually, his son's name is also Thomas, and his son has a niece -- so I guess his son is also an Uncle Tom

So does that make Uncle Tom-ism hereditary?