Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: MechAg94 on June 04, 2012, 08:25:04 PM
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http://shine.yahoo.com/secrets/not-wear-office-180500140.html
I thought I would post this. The subject didn't seem so interesting at first, but reading the comments, I am surprised how many times I have come across some of this stuff before. I am sure some of you have as well. It is also primarily focused on women's clothes, but most of them apply equally in their own way to men (I don't men wearing skirts too short either).
I think #3 about wearing excessive perfume is the one that bugs me the most. Years ago at an older office, the site labor contractor had a time keeper that wore too much perfume. You could always tell where she had been for 30 min or an hour after she left. The same was true more recently for a guy that used to come out and calibrate our gas meters at one site. It seemed the excessive smell of cologne would hang around for an hour or so.
The comment I saw below the article was "Your perfume/cologne should not enter the room before you do". IMO, it shouldn't hang around after you leave either.
Most guys in chemical plants these days wear fire retardant uniforms so most of these are not an issue. As for the office, please let me say that if a girl wants engineers to notice her, she doesn't really need to display anything. They'll notice anyway. =D
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I have seen some women that really need this advice. And I don't say this because I am a table-leg-concealing fuddy-duddy - some of them just look silly wearing their club-hopping gear to the office.
I don't know what their boyfriends wear to their jobs. I don't think their boyfriends even have jobs.
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Ugh. We have relaxed dress code on holidays. One girl I work with wears a shirt that shows her belly, cleavage, and booty shorts. Problem is she's in her mid forties, 50 pounds overweight and ragged out. That *expletive deleted*it shouldn't be legal.
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From the article:
Tight mini skirts are inappropriate for most office environments.
So, does that mean that loose miniskirts are OK? Loose the schoolgirl fantasies!
Your fantasies, darn bunch of perverts! I'm too old to have any. :angel:
stay safe.
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I get migraine headaches from strong odors and have packed up my desk and moved to the conference room to work due to women who bathe in whore water!
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What Not to Wear to the Office
Musk.
Lady at my first real job, 30 some odd years ago, wore it strong. You could tell where she was, where she had been, sometimes where she would be.
I know it's a sex pheromone. For that purpose, it's best done subtle. Don't baptise oneself with it.
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Ugh. We have relaxed dress code on holidays. One girl I work with wears a shirt that shows her belly, cleavage, and booty shorts. Problem is she's in her mid forties, 50 pounds overweight and ragged out. That *expletive deleted* shouldn't be legal.
True, but then I think of me: the middle-aged average build guy in spandex on a road bike. Not as bad as your example, but I am no Adonis either any more.
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True, but then I think of me: the middle-aged average build guy in spandex on a road bike. Not as bad as your example, but I am no Adonis either any more.
Do you wear your spandex on casual days to the office?
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Telecommuting: avoids dress code issues.
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Ugh. We have relaxed dress code on holidays. One girl I work with wears a shirt that shows her belly, cleavage, and booty shorts. Problem is she's in her mid forties, 50 pounds overweight and ragged out. That *expletive deleted* shouldn't be legal.
Here's a thought....picture her without all those clothes on..... :-*
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Meh, spandex is appropriate exercise wear. Booty shorts are rarely appropriate at work, especially when you look awful in them.
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Telecommuting: avoids dress code issues.
That assumes you have a job where TC is acceptable.
Besides, even when I work from home (2-3 days a week), I still dress somewhat acceptable for the office. I feel it gets me in the frame of mind to actually work. I'm working from home right now, but I'm "only" wearing cargo shorts and a polo shirt. While not office wear for most locations, we do get to dress this way during the hottest part of the summer at the office. Dunno why, we work in a SOC and the temps are on the cool side already, but who am I to argue. :)
Chris
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Wearing a gun to the office is usually unacceptable =(
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Wearing a gun to the office is usually unacceptable =(
One of the privileges I enjoyed working for the wifey.
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Here's a thought....picture her without all those clothes on..... :-*
We would do that with some women regardless what they wear. It is amazing the thoughts you can have just seeing a half way cute girl in head to toe coveralls inside a chemical plant. Many guys refer to some women as "plant cute". =)
I guess that should be a lesson to Muslims in some cultures. It doesn't matter how they dress, that won't remove the temptation.
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I have proposed "Bathing in Whore Water" to my friend as an album title for our non-existant band.
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IMO, they first need a "what not to wear to the interview" class. I've gotten three different jobs that I wasn't really qualified for, but that suddenly became "will train" when I was the only interviewee that showed up in a tie. Two of them were office jobs. I've also done interviews for nice office jobs where I'd already eliminated candidates as they walked into the office in a t-shirt and shorts.
Judging a book by its cover doesn't apply, as a book doesn't choose its cover.
I've advocated for a core curriculum class in "how and why to dress and act like an adult" as a prereq for all sophomore level classes.
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That assumes you have a job where TC is acceptable.
Well, I do. :D
But I seriously think there are a lot of jobs where people can telecommute, and the employers haven't figured it out yet.
And there'll be more and more of them as technology advances.
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IMO, they first need a "what not to wear to the interview" class. I've gotten three different jobs that I wasn't really qualified for, but that suddenly became "will train" when I was the only interviewee that showed up in a tie. Two of them were office jobs. I've also done interviews for nice office jobs where I'd already eliminated candidates as they walked into the office in a t-shirt and shorts.
Judging a book by its cover doesn't apply, as a book doesn't choose its cover.
I've advocated for a core curriculum class in "how and why to dress and act like an adult" as a prereq for all sophomore level classes.
One of my nephews can't understand why he can't get a job. Wears a batman hoodie, baggy, knee length shorts and ratty shoes to an interview. He might even get away with that but the guy looks like he did a face plant in a tackle box.
Personally I wouldn't care to be served fast food* buy a person with enough hardware sticking out of their face to weigh down a body.
Not that I eat fast food more than a few times a year anyway.
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Strange. I see piles of face-pierced people at the local McD.
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Two questions:
Why are they storing pierced individuals at a fast food restaurant, and why do they pile them, instead of stacking them in a more organized fashion?
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Two questions:
Why are they storing pierced individuals at a fast food restaurant, and why do they pile them, instead of stacking them in a more organized fashion?
I think the various types of hardware keep getting tangled up so it is easier to just pile them up. They don't have storage bins like a good tackle box to separate the hardware.
You just think that is beef and chicken.
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My wife is a first grade teacher, so her work attire is more conservative than most places, except sweet, sweet Friday (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cHaufA26B8).
That assumes you have a job where TC is acceptable.
5 days a week, 8am-5pm. The rest of my team is scattered throughout the east coast. The company I am actually employed by has its closest office 90 minutes away. I've been there once and that was for the interview.
The other day I got out of the shower late (because I got up at 7:50) and because of that I worked until lunch wearing a t-shirt, boxer briefs and one sock.
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5 days a week, 8am-5pm. The rest of my team is scattered throughout the east coast. The company I am actually employed by has its closest office 90 minutes away. I've been there once and that was for the interview.
The other day I got out of the shower late (because I got up at 7:50) and because of that I worked until lunch wearing a t-shirt, boxer briefs and one sock.
My company is very TC-friendly. I have coworkers worldwide who never go into an office. On conference calls we hear kids, dogs, TVs, etc in the background. It's normal and accepted. I TC 2 or more days a week myself.
Most aren't so lucky. If you work for FedGov, you're probably not doing much TC, especially when you get into the stuff that requires clearances. It was a bit of a hassle to TC when I worked on a Treasury contract. Not impossible, but I was limited in what I could do from home.
Well, I do. :D
But I seriously think there are a lot of jobs where people can telecommute, and the employers haven't figured it out yet.
And there'll be more and more of them as technology advances.
It's not a tech issue, but a policy one. How do you allow an employee who works with Top Secret data to work from home? Do you build a scif in their house? Do you require visitors to their home to sign a log book?
Chris
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But I seriously think there are a lot of jobs where people can telecommute, and the employers haven't figured it out yet.
"Let me get this straight; I come in, work on a pile of paperwork that's over a week behind, enter it into a text-based app that's running on a server 1500 miles away, and do it in a makeshift cubicle in the corner of a hot conference room. Why can't I just come get the pile on Monday and work on it in front of my own air conditioner at home?"
"Because we don't do it that way."
"Leave me out of that we. Bye."
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It's not a tech issue, but a policy one. How do you allow an employee who works with Top Secret data to work from home? Do you build a scif in their house? Do you require visitors to their home to sign a log book?
People who work with military secrets are rare.
Medical secrets, corporate secrets, etc.? I signed NDAs for my different clients.
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The other day I got out of the shower late (because I got up at 7:50) and because of that I worked until lunch wearing a t-shirt, boxer briefs and one sock.
Since you were already wearing boxer briefs, where did you put the one sock?
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I worked my last year and a half from home. Company policy was a week a month from home allowed but I had a medical issue and they gave me a HUGE break.
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Since you were already wearing boxer briefs, where did you put the one sock?
The boxer briefs were too short and it was cold in my office. :laugh:
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People who work with military secrets are rare.
Not around here. And, once you get into that realm, you'll find many more DOD or other secured sites where you didn't know they existed before. Just because it looks like a standard office building from the inside doesn't mean it's one inside.
Medical secrets, corporate secrets, etc.? I signed NDAs for my different clients.
That isn't always acceptable to the data owner.
Chris
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That isn't always acceptable to the data owner.
Chris
You will find, I think, jobs that require ABSOLUTE SECRECY to be the minority. And indeed the BLS agrees with me, as they also think far more people can be telecommuting than are doing that now.
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I've done most of my software work from home over the past 15 years, but sometimes I have to go on site.
Trouble is that I sometimes go long stretches without work because I refuse to travel.
Seems like outfits are getting more and more anal about it. I guess they're afraid someone will steal their crappy software that they want me to fix ... ;/
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gugbMw4LigY
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I've done most of my software work from home over the past 15 years, but sometimes I have to go on site.
Trouble is that I sometimes go long stretches without work because I refuse to travel.
Seems like outfits are getting more and more anal about it. I guess they're afraid someone will steal their crappy software that they want me to fix ... ;/
And I guess they haven't figured out that if they CAN'T fix it but you CAN, they're probably not smart enough to stop you from stealing it right out of their headquarters building anyway.
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And I guess they haven't figured out that if they CAN'T fix it but you CAN, they're probably not smart enough to stop you from stealing it right out of their headquarters building anyway.
So they gonna re-format my brain when I leave ???
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So they gonna re-format my brain when I leave ???
Couldn't hurt. :P
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I have proposed "Bathing in Whore Water" to my friend as an album title for our non-existant band.
I had a grievance filed against me by a Teamster Local 705 (Chicago Independent) Clerical because I said, and I quote:
"Nice fragrance, must you marinate in it?"
That was a fun one....
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I worked form home for a while when I was recovering from surgery. Loved it. I could easily do that at least two days a week when I am in the office by myself, anyway. But nooo... When I came back I was told to turn in my laptop. Because we don't have a policy for working from home.
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You will find, I think, jobs that require ABSOLUTE SECRECY to be the minority. And indeed the BLS agrees with me, as they also think far more people can be telecommuting than are doing that now.
That you or the BLS don't think a job requires secrecy (actually, rarely secrecy, just control over data and environment) is immaterial. If the data owner says the data should not exist outside a particular environment, it shall not leave that environment. The technology, bandwidth, etc for widespread telecommuting exists today and has for years, but companies are a bit squirrely about people accessing their internal networks remotely even if using a company provided and vetted machine with strong encryption on the drive and a good VPN to encrypt traffic. There is always that chance data will be leaked through that path in their eyes.
The data owner has the final say.
Chris
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I strongly doubt that the widespread opposition to TC is based on concerns about data leakage.
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I strongly doubt that the widespread opposition to TC is based on concerns about data leakage.
Maybe not for all companies, but where I've worked, security was the primary issue. TC was seen as a major vector for security threats of all kinds. Even when TC was allowed, and this wasn't for classified data, just SBU stuff, the hoops a user had to jump through were significant.
Even at my current company, which encourages TC (to the extent that many of my coworkers worldwide TC full time), our systems are fully encrypted, all sorts of strong password and password aging policies are in effect, and we undergo yearly refresher courses that cover *how* to work from home in order to protect our systems and data (such things as not working with our screens facing windows, etc).
But what do I know? I only have 12 years of TC and developing systems and polices to facilitate TC. Maybe if I worked for a thinktank that published the *right* papers on the subject, I might just know what I'm talking about.
Chris
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Really, are we gonna do the "if you dare disagree with me you must be impugning my knowledge and experience" thing now? ;/
How much of your experience has been with .gov or quasi-.gov companies that deal with classififed or sensitive information? Honest question, it just seems like that's been the realm of your experience, and working for .gov (either directly or for a company with .gov as a client) too long tends to give folks a different viewpoint than private sector folks.
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5 years private sector (with nearly 3 years specifically dealing with telework issues) and 10 years Fed contracting (most of that time developing TC services and policies).
Chris
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I strongly doubt that the widespread opposition to TC is based on concerns about data leakage.
Most of the time it seems like a-hole managers just want someone to chew out face to face =(
That, and at least six hours of meetings every day ;/
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I may work for a rather unique company, but we frequently have employees and managers geographically far apart. My manager's manager is on the other side of the Atlantic. Another coworker's manager is on the other side of the country (coworker TCs fulltime). One guy works out of Hawaii full time from home. I TC 2-5 days a week myself.
As for meetings, with customers and coworkers worldwide, I seldom have face-to-face meetings. I do a lot of teleconferences with Livemeeting. An average day for me is 2-3hrs of calls/meetings. I've had weeks where fully 2/3 of the week was teleconferencing. Hard to get any work done those weeks...
Chris
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That you or the BLS don't think a job requires secrecy (actually, rarely secrecy, just control over data and environment) is immaterial. If the data owner says the data should not exist outside a particular environment, it shall not leave that environment. The technology, bandwidth, etc for widespread telecommuting exists today and has for years, but companies are a bit squirrely about people accessing their internal networks remotely even if using a company provided and vetted machine with strong encryption on the drive and a good VPN to encrypt traffic. There is always that chance data will be leaked through that path in their eyes.
The data owner has the final say.
Chris
So what you're saying is that we're facing a cultural issue of companies having concerns over that topic.
Mind you, that's just the same thing that I said - that there are many jobs that could be done through TC, but aren't yet.
I expect that you're going to have more telecommuters in the future than we have now, as manager generations change.
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So what you're saying is that we're facing a cultural issue of companies having concerns over that topic.
Mind you, that's just the same thing that I said - that there are many jobs that could be done through TC, but aren't yet.
I expect that you're going to have more telecommuters in the future than we have now, as manager generations change.
No, I'm saying the technology exists, but the opportunity, for a variety of reasons, doesn't. It's not a cultural thing as most managers I've worked with don't mind it at all. We're not even talking about govt-level stuff. Laws surrounding personal info, what info can leave the country (some of our customers are fully serviced out of dedicated facilities in their home countries because of this), etc make universal TC difficult to impossible.
It's not just a matter of encrypting everything and providing lots of bandwidth. Companies are placed at risk if they don't maintain control of their data.
Chris
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I think in some cases security is as much an excuse as a reason. I also think some companies and manager are afraid of having to grade employees on production rather than showing up.
That said, I work in chemical plant operations. While I do have days where I do paperwork and computer work all day, it does require face to face and hands on effort.
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No, I'm saying the technology exists, but the opportunity, for a variety of reasons, doesn't. It's not a cultural thing as most managers I've worked with don't mind it at all. We're not even talking about govt-level stuff. Laws surrounding personal info, what info can leave the country (some of our customers are fully serviced out of dedicated facilities in their home countries because of this), etc make universal TC difficult to impossible.
It's not just a matter of encrypting everything and providing lots of bandwidth. Companies are placed at risk if they don't maintain control of their data.
Chris
For the record, I've been working various TC jobs since 2003.
Which is it? Is it, as you said in this post, that there are laws in your country that limit TC, or that, as you said in your previous posts, that data owners are often averse to TC?
Here is my prediction, which I think can be borne out statistically in the coming years. We can meet again in this forum as the time passes and check if Microbalrog was right:
I believe that the amount of jobs that can be implemented as TC jobs, technologically, is greater than the total of TC jobs that actually exist today. It is also constantly growing as technologies evolve. As such, we will see, in the following 5-10 years, a growth of the total number of actual TC jobs, both in absolute numbers and as a percentage of the economy. This is something that we will be able to verify statistically and check if I was right or wrong.
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My division Chief wore too much cologne. His odor always arrived 20-30 seconds before he did. We considered this a good thing. ;)
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I may work for a rather unique company, but we frequently have employees and managers geographically far apart. My manager's manager is on the other side of the Atlantic. Another coworker's manager is on the other side of the country (coworker TCs fulltime). One guy works out of Hawaii full time from home. I TC 2-5 days a week myself.
As for meetings, with customers and coworkers worldwide, I seldom have face-to-face meetings. I do a lot of teleconferences with Livemeeting. An average day for me is 2-3hrs of calls/meetings. I've had weeks where fully 2/3 of the week was teleconferencing. Hard to get any work done those weeks...
Chris
Usually the farther away the manager is, the more productive work that can get done. :P Last project that I was on, the senior manager for the client seemed determined to torpedo his own project and piss off everyone, at which he succeeded well. =(
Some years ago I worked on a project that had elements in England, Indiana, Arizona, Montana (me), and sometimes Japan. :lol:
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Being that my job is physical, hands on technical work TC is not an option. However, the shift I work has it's pluses. I sometimes go 3 and 4 days a week with out having to talk to another living soul.
=D
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For the record, I've been working various TC jobs since 2003.
I've been TCing on and off since 1998ish. I've never held a full-time TC job, but ever job I've had since school has involved some TC. I was doing desktop and server support over dial-up with PCAnywhere in the late 90s.
Which is it? Is it, as you said in this post, that there are laws in your country that limit TC, or that, as you said in your previous posts, that data owners are often averse to TC?
It's both. And it's not so much the data owners are adverse to TC specifically, but to the lack of control of the data if it's not in a secured location. See, if you allow TC, then the person can TC from anywhere. Home, Starbucks, bookstores, etc. While you can encrypt the bejeezus out of everything, the screen has to be "in the clear" so the user can do their job. A careless user will work in places where shoulder surfing isn't impossible. That is the sort of things people rightfully fear.
Oh, and it's not just laws in this country that serve to discourage TC. The EC has data protection laws as well (else my company wouldn't be spending large sums of money to duplicate functionality overseas).
Here is my prediction, which I think can be borne out statistically in the coming years. We can meet again in this forum as the time passes and check if Microbalrog was right:
I believe that the amount of jobs that can be implemented as TC jobs, technologically, is greater than the total of TC jobs that actually exist today. It is also constantly growing as technologies evolve. As such, we will see, in the following 5-10 years, a growth of the total number of actual TC jobs, both in absolute numbers and as a percentage of the economy. This is something that we will be able to verify statistically and check if I was right or wrong.
*sigh*
Technology isn't the issue. It never was. I also never said TC jobs wouldn't grow, but that not all jobs are suitable for TC. I fully expect my current job to become mostly, if not all, TC in the coming years. The precedent is there elsewhere in the company and I'm already nearly 50% TC today (ignoring the fact that even when I'm "in the office", my job is effectively TC since I do very little "locally"). However, my previous job would not be TC suitable even though all of the tools existed to make it technically feasible.
As long as there is that human component that can walk away from their PC with sensitive data on the screen and the system unlocked, or people working in public places who aren't careful, there will be ample reasons to ban TC in certain workplaces. Think about the stories you've heard about people losing laptops with sensitive data on them. Even if the drives are encrypted (and most companies do this today), it doesn't prevent a dedicated attacker from gaining access if the data is juicy enough. Those types of issues make folks antsy about allowing TC.
Chris
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Here's what I think is going to happen:
1. More jobs are going to become TC-based. This includes surprising jobs that one cannot even imagine being TC-based today (telepresence robots, remote-controlled equipment, driverless vehicles are either on the verge of hitting commercial markets or becoming mainstream.
As per the above:
2. Considerations of clothing vs. hireability will be eroded. I could pierce my entire face - all of it - and not a single one of my clients would ever know. In the 21st century you will see more pierced/tattooed people as people give less of a crap.
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In the 21st century you will see more pierced/tattooed people as people give less of a crap.
I believe you will see fewer pierced and tattooed people as the fad fades away and something else replaces it. Sure, there will always be some tattooed/pierced folks about, but today's numbers will decrease over time.
And there will be a lot of money to be made in tattoo removal in the coming years.