Author Topic: Guessing the real numbers in the DC march  (Read 8868 times)

Monkeyleg

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Guessing the real numbers in the DC march
« on: September 15, 2009, 11:30:17 PM »
I've been steaming about the MSM's claims of "thousands" of demonstrators over the weekend. The foreign press seems to be on the very high side of estimates at 1-2 million people, but there's no way that the crowds this weekend were 60,000-70,000, much less the 10,000 that some outlets reported.

Just for reference, here's a photo of about 100,000 people at a Superbowl game. I don't know the distances in the photos of the DC march, but it looked like there were more people on the streets than are at this Superbowl game. The photos I saw of the gathering on the mall looked to have about as many people as are in the Superbowl photo.

Unfortunately, not enough people will see the photos and will only read the news accounts.


ronnyreagan

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Re: Guessing the real numbers in the DC march
« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2009, 09:22:35 AM »
Unfortunately, not enough people will see the photos and will only read the news accounts.

I wouldn't trust the photos being posted any more than the news accounts.
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grampster

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Re: Guessing the real numbers in the DC march
« Reply #2 on: September 16, 2009, 09:41:11 AM »
One of my oldest friends was in DC.  He said the crowd was enormous, nothing like he had ever seen.  National Park Service estimated 1.5 million and that was announced to the crowd.  Doug said the roar of the crowd in response was awesome and he'd never experienced anything like it.  Said the roar was like a living thing that rolled through the town.
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Monkeyleg

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Re: Guessing the real numbers in the DC march
« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2009, 09:55:51 AM »
Quote
National Park Service estimated 1.5 million and that was announced to the crowd.

I wasn't there, but from looking at the photos, I doubt that number.

I've been in a couple of the parades at the Harley Davidson reunions, where there have been nearly 100,000 motorcycles in the parades. It's impressive. It takes a couple of hours for that many cycles, riding four to six abreast, to go perhaps five miles. Aerial views of the parade are incredible.

There are roughly 1 million people in Milwaukee county. If 1.5X that many showed up all in one place, it would be near impossible to find a place to put them all.

Also, what about lodging? DC and Milwaukee are roughly the same size, although I'll grant that DC has more hotels. Still, the Harley rallies booked every hotel and motel room from northern Illinois up to Green Bay, WI.

From looking at the photos (not the supposed fake photo) of the rally, I would guess that the numbers were in the low hundreds of thousands. It was certainly more than the "thousands" reported by most MSM outlets.

Jamisjockey

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Re: Guessing the real numbers in the DC march
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2009, 09:59:28 AM »
You can stay as far away as Richmond or Baltimore and be in DC in under 2 hours.  There are hotels in all the towns ringing DC for miles and miles.  And you don't even have to drive into DC, you can ride the Metro from a bunch of the outlying towns.  Same way all those people got into DC for the Inauguration.
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grampster

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Re: Guessing the real numbers in the DC march
« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2009, 10:03:44 AM »
I agree.  The park service supposedly uses arial foto's of filled spaces and then guesses.  Michigan stadium holds around 104,000.  I've seen that crowd.  So has my friend, Doug.  I'll wager DC was in multiple 100's not 10's as MSM reports, or 75,000 by Fox.

Friend Doug said that people were coming into DC from all around.  They parked in a Virginia train station very early in the AM, slept in the car and rode a train into DC.  Others in busses that were stalled in traffic outside DC, got out of the busses and walked the rest of the way.
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longeyes

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Re: Guessing the real numbers in the DC march
« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2009, 10:43:29 AM »
Aerial photography + modern computer analysis should yield reasonably accurate numbers.

But in an age of toxic mendacity who is really interested any more in an accurate count, anyway?  For the Left it wouldn't matter if there were ten million there because those would be non-people, just "Ku Klux Klowns," as one writer with a golden resume so charmingly phrases it.

http://www.truthout.org/091509R?n
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castle key

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Re: Guessing the real numbers in the DC march
« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2009, 11:31:46 AM »
National Park Service estimated 1.5 million and that was announced to the crowd. 

Any National Park Service attribution of crowd figures for this or any event is incorrect.

The National Park Service DOES NOT PROVIDE crowd estimates.
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longeyes

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Re: Guessing the real numbers in the DC march
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2009, 12:03:45 PM »
The numbers are secondary.

The issue is that the Left wishes to believe the "resistance" is of no consequence.  Their first line of attack is that it's just a few Americans, not a significant number; their second line of attack is that those Americans, no matter how many, really don't matter, for one reason or another, are non-people.

They are dead wrong.  On both counts.
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sanglant

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Re: Guessing the real numbers in the DC march
« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2009, 01:36:08 PM »
the real question is how much trash was left after all those uncaring republicans left compared to the inauguration of the messiah :laugh:

Jamisjockey

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Re: Guessing the real numbers in the DC march
« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2009, 02:13:53 PM »
Aerial photography + modern computer analysis should yield reasonably accurate numbers.

But in an age of toxic mendacity who is really interested any more in an accurate count, anyway?  For the Left it wouldn't matter if there were ten million there because those would be non-people, just "Ku Klux Klowns," as one writer with a golden resume so charmingly phrases it.

http://www.truthout.org/091509R?n

You wrote something that
A) I understood
and
B) I agree with


I :laugh:
JD

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grampster

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Re: Guessing the real numbers in the DC march
« Reply #11 on: September 16, 2009, 02:42:39 PM »
"Any National Park Service attribution of crowd figures for this or any event is incorrect.

The National Park Service DOES NOT PROVIDE crowd estimates."


Tell the above to the people that I am personally acquainted with who were there and who heard the accouncement over the PA system who were also nearly deafened by the roar of the crowd.  In fact, here's a personal account by a close friend that I partnered with in LE over 40 years ago:

"Dick,

I needed to wait a day before commenting on our trip to Washington, DC. I was exhausted. Two nights without laying my old bones on a bed did me in.

My son Patrick, my daughter-in-law, Kris, and I drove all night from michigan and arrived in Vienna, VA, at 4:00 AM on Saturday morning, 9/12. We found an open Mickey D's in an otherwise black, empty city, had a maaarvelous breakfast, then parked at the empty Vienna Metro Train Station and caught a few zzzzzz's. Took the first train into DC. While we slept, there had been a transformation; when we awoke people were coming out of the woodwork from every direction. The train was packed, wall to wall. I was standing, scrunched next to a local gentleman who asked, "What the hell is going on?" I explained there was going to be a little gathering of Patriots at the Capitol. He confessed he had heard about it........he looked a wee bit perplexed, then said, "It's Saturday morning man, this train is usually empty!"

The rest of the day was the experience of a lifetime. Arriving at Freedom Plaza at 14th & E Street NW, we and all the others poured up out of the Metro Station into a sea of more people coming from every direction of the compass. We were engulfed by the largest crowd of people I had ever seen in my life. I was amazed......truly amazed. No pushing, no shoving, no dirty looks, no cursing, no profanity......passageways opened up easily into and out of the crowd. No obscene signs or placards...........just the facts, the truth. Everybody as polite as hell, even the cops were smiling; people were thanking them for doing what they do.

The march to the Capitol building up Pennsylvanis Ave from Freedon Square that began at 11:00 AM was a happy, orderly march. We had no idea where we were in the crowd, perhaps near the middle. We unfolded our chairs on the farthest edge of the reflecting pool across from the Capitol building, at least a quarter mile as the crow flies from the bottom of the Capitol steps. That was as close as we could get to the speakers stand. The mass of people extended farther than we could see to out right and left and to the rear of where we were went out of sight up the mall towards the Washington Monument and, although we didn't have a view of it, extended for blocks up Pennsylvania Ave in the direction of the White House.

It was announced from the speakers stand, that the National Park Service estimated the size of the crowd at 1.5 million people. The cheer that went up was like nothing I have ever heard before, a roar, it reverberated from the buildings and rolled like a solid wall of thunder, almost taking your breath away.

People from every State in the nation had come together with one mind; We had carried a message to Washington that the Administration and Congress could not deny hearing........or so I thought.

We took the train back to Vienna, VA, and had a very gracious dinner with good friends of Kris and Pat who lived there.

At 8:30 PM we were back in the car and headed home to Michigan. Tired, smuggly satisfied, happy to have been a part of something big and wonderful; perhaps even a watershed event in our nations history. We turned on Serius Satallite Radio and tuned in the news programs much to our chagrin. It was quite a let-down to learn that we had apparently taken part in a non-event. Even Fox News gave it short shrift........."a crowd of tens of thousands"........and a less then lack-luster commentary. And the other stations?..........what a laugh.

As for the National Park Service estimate?............I assume someone there must have spoken without authorization; truth to despotism is anathema, better to make-believe it isn't so.

We had apparently passed into and out of a third dimension. Whereever we had been was obviously not where the news media was, on another latitude perhaps, and not even close. Whatever our eyes had seen and our ears had heard had apparently occured in a vacuum, not in the real world.

It is enough to know that we do exist and we are not going anywhere. Our government has stepped off into deep, dark water. We'll still be here in November of 2010, in fact, we're just getting started, and we'll not forget what tens of millions of us need to do.........Throw the bastards out on both sides of the aisle.

After I wrote this, I went to the below noted website. Here are more comments from a few Michiganders. They must have stepped through into that same wierd third dimension Pat and Kris and I did.

Doug

http://912marchondc.ning.com/group/michigan"

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longeyes

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Re: Guessing the real numbers in the DC march
« Reply #12 on: September 16, 2009, 02:52:40 PM »
Quote
You wrote something that
A) I understood
and
B) I agree with

Encouraging.  I've always been a believer in progress.  =D
"Domari nolo."

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castle key

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Re: Guessing the real numbers in the DC march
« Reply #13 on: September 16, 2009, 03:57:09 PM »
As for the National Park Service estimate?............I assume someone there must have spoken without authorization

100% correct!!
Vigilate hoc, tenendum per ebrietatem.

Fjolnirsson

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Re: Guessing the real numbers in the DC march
« Reply #14 on: September 16, 2009, 04:30:33 PM »
Quote
Any National Park Service attribution of crowd figures for this or any event is incorrect.

The National Park Service DOES NOT PROVIDE crowd estimates.
Oh, RLY?

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2009-01-19-crowd_N.htm

Quote
Park service changes course, plans to offer crowd estimate

By Martha T. Moore, USA TODAY
WASHINGTON — Reversing a 13-year-old policy, the National Park Service said Monday that it will offer an official crowd estimate for today's presidential inauguration to determine whether the event will set a record.

The largest inauguration crowd is believed by the National Park Service to be 1.2 million people for the swearing-in of President Lyndon B. Johnson in 1965. President Clinton's 1993 ceremony drew 800,000 people, according to the park service.

Barna said the National Park Police will take aerial photos at the moment of President-elect Barack Obama's swearing-in that the park service will use for a crowd estimate. He said the agency should have a crowd estimate later this week.

However, you are partially correct.
http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/54017

Quote
Crowd Sizes on National Mall A Matter of Media Speculation
Tuesday, September 15, 2009
By Penny Starr, Senior Staff Writer


Protestor holds a sign at the Taxpayer March on Washington, Saturday, Sept. 12, 2009 (CNSNews.com photo/Penny Starr)
(CNSNews.com) - The number of people who converged on Washington, D.C., on Saturday to protest big government, high taxes and out-of-control federal spending is a matter of media speculation because no government agency makes official estimates of crowd sizes for such events.

The National Park Service, which formerly estimated crowd sizes on the National Mall, made it clear it had no interest in estimating the size of Saturday’s crowd.

“The long and short of it is, in terms of this weekend’s event, no, the National Park Service does not, did not and will not provide a crowd estimate for this,” Bill Line, spokesman for the park service told CNSNews.com.

I guess it will be up to citizens to figure out how many were there. If this keeps up, people might start figuring out how to do things for themselves again, and where will that leave the government?

Hi.

makattak

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Re: Guessing the real numbers in the DC march
« Reply #15 on: September 16, 2009, 04:37:20 PM »
Oh, RLY?

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2009-01-19-crowd_N.htm

However, you are partially correct.
http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/54017

I guess it will be up to citizens to figure out how many were there. If this keeps up, people might start figuring out how to do things for themselves again, and where will that leave the government?



Of note is when the National Park Service decided to stop estimating crowd size: the aforementioned Promise Keeper's Event.

And when do they rescind it? Ohhhhhh... for a liberal president.

Glad their policies aren't political in nature.
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Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: Guessing the real numbers in the DC march
« Reply #16 on: September 16, 2009, 05:08:59 PM »
Heard on the radio today that IU did the aerial photos and computer analysis thing on the crowd.  The number they came up with was 1.7 million, which seems to confirm against eye-witness accounts as well as foreign (i.e. non-biased) media estimates.

castle key

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Re: Guessing the real numbers in the DC march
« Reply #17 on: September 16, 2009, 05:38:47 PM »
Oh, RLY?

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2009-01-19-crowd_N.htm



On this particular issue, my response is an emphatic "really."

I may be pretty certain that the sun will rise in the east tomorrow, at least 99.9999999999999999999999999999999999999999% certain, however, on this particular issue, I am 100% certain that an official figure was not and will not be released.
Vigilate hoc, tenendum per ebrietatem.

grampster

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Re: Guessing the real numbers in the DC march
« Reply #18 on: September 16, 2009, 06:57:13 PM »
http://www.scribd.com/doc/19743935/The-Real-Number-of-Protesters-Zac-Moilanen


Check out the above link for an estimate of crowd and how it was arrived at... 1.7 million plus.

Quote from: grampster on Today at 02:42:39 PM
As for the National Park Service estimate?............I assume someone there must have spoken without authorization...


100% correct!!



Uhhhh....this is the rest of Doug's quote that Castle Key left out  "...truth to despotism is anathema, better to make-believe it isn't so."


« Last Edit: September 16, 2009, 07:01:45 PM by grampster »
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castle key

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Re: Guessing the real numbers in the DC march
« Reply #19 on: September 16, 2009, 07:15:00 PM »
This could rapidly become a contest of urine spewing that I really do not want to get into.

I have spoken my piece.

I stand by my statement.

Thank you for hearing me.
Vigilate hoc, tenendum per ebrietatem.

Waitone

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Re: Guessing the real numbers in the DC march
« Reply #20 on: September 16, 2009, 07:25:37 PM »
They stopped making official estimates because of politics and they will start making official estimate when it becomes politically expedient.  Regardless of the phase we are in, the crowd poohbahs have all the data used to make estimates.  I think it would be a smart idea to make the data part of the public record and let political gladiators duke it out.
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eyebrows

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Re: Guessing the real numbers in the DC march
« Reply #21 on: September 17, 2009, 07:51:21 PM »
Here is a time-lapse video of the event.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=8b9_1252876121

It shows on heck of a lot of people streaming down the street.

Monkeyleg

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Re: Guessing the real numbers in the DC march
« Reply #22 on: September 17, 2009, 10:58:00 PM »
Eyebrows, the arguments I've heard against that video is that it's from an old march (I forget which one).

Perd Hapley

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Re: Guessing the real numbers in the DC march
« Reply #23 on: September 18, 2009, 12:01:12 AM »
Of note is when the National Park Service decided to stop estimating crowd size: the aforementioned Promise Keeper's Event.

And when do they rescind it? Ohhhhhh... for a liberal president.

Glad their policies aren't political in nature.

I thought they quit after their estimate showed that the Million Man March wasn't. 
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makattak

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Re: Guessing the real numbers in the DC march
« Reply #24 on: September 18, 2009, 08:54:48 AM »
I thought they quit after their estimate showed that the Million Man March wasn't. 

... and as the Promise Keepers event was FAR above those numbers. (So they stopped reporting.)
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought